Why Your Story Rating Idea Sucks

[KeithD]

I will give you a piece of data. I had published a story. Within a few moments of its publication I got a 1-bomb. It would have been physically and intellectually impossible to read 4 (lit) pages of a story in the time that the 1 rating was assigned. This is not a question of an "objective" vote. This is not a question of a person that read the story and didn't like it.

Yes, I've seen that happen. With 5s too, however.

 

[nikisixx]

xxxxx

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

It's just trolls.

I hate trolls, you hate trolls, and I'm just yelling and stuff.

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

More people should have that attitude.

There's nothing inherently wrong or suspect about a 1-vote. Nobody's voting criteria are objectively better than anyone else's. The Site makes no effort to regulate or define what a particular score "means."

If somebody really, really hates your story, even though it's got great grammar and smartly-drawn characters and is based on a cool idea, they're entitled to give it a 1.

You are going to get a lot of flak for your stories -- more than most. It's not because of any lack of skill on your part; it's because you don't stick to category conventions and you include lots of way-out-there content that is going to turn some people off. I'm about 2/3 of the way through your Luau story, and oh my god. It takes an open-minded reader fully to appreciate all the stuff in one of your stories. That's just the way it is. There's really no way fairly to adjust the scoring method to guard against that, nor is there any really objectively sound reason to do so.

It feels so freaking great to know somebody out there appreciates what you're doing. Thanks Simon, and do tell me all about your thoughts on the piece when you're finished. I need to read your stuff too, I apologize. That Luau story took the hell over for the past week and a half.

 

[ElectricBlue]

For what it is worth Holly, I agree with you. But that battle was already overruled or not understood (or not wanted to be understood) in a previous thread.

The problem is how to distinguish the true score of one versus the troll score of one.

I think the sweep system does this legitimately - with a little bit of thought and one or two experiments it's quite easy to figure out how sweeps work. And sweeps will strip fives dropped the same way - I know this from experiment on my own story file.

In terms of the ones, though, it usually comes down to, "You've upset me because it's not my kink," which is whiney but not necessarily trolling. It's a subtlety. Either way, it's usually got nothing to do with the story and isn't really helpful to the author - unless the author is 100% reader-driven and wants to satisfy all readers, which is a fool's game.

 

[nikisixx]

xxxxx

 

[SimonDoom]

I will give you a piece of data. I had published a story. Within a few moments of its publication I got a 1-bomb. It would have been physically and intellectually impossible to read 4 (lit) pages of a story in the time that the 1 rating was assigned. This is not a question of an "objective" vote. This is not a question of a person that read the story and didn't like it.

This is what we are talking about. We are not talking about a person that reads the story and doesn't like it. So please, I implore you.... let's call it for what it is.

I'm well aware of that. I've had votes like that, I'm sure. I don't regard a vote as legitimate if the reader has not read the story, and yet I'm certain there are many such votes.

My understanding is this is what sweeps are intended to correct. They delete large quantities of votes that are made in a way that is identified as "illegitimate" by whatever criteria the Site owners have developed.

But two things:

It doesn't change the fact that from the Site's point of view it makes no sense to make it harder for people to vote. Calls to require people to sign up before voting, or to jump through various contrived hoops before voting, make no sense at all, from the standpoint of the Site or the standpoint of readers. Whatever benefit there might be from adjusting the system to cater to the sensitivities of authors is far, far outweighed by the cost of putting up barriers to voting for readers. Readers matter more. We all need to understand that.

Second, so what? What does it really matter? When I read that authors are concerned that the completely-artificial-system score for their story has dropped from 4.8 something to 4.6 something, my reaction is, Seriously? That bothers you? Who cares? It's a contrived number. That's all it is.

My answer: get a thick skin. Have fun with the scores, if you like. Squeeze whatever useful information you can from them. But don't ever fret about them. Don't get down because there are readers out there who have voting criteria that you cannot fathom. Keep writing stories, the best you can. Focus not on high scores but on connecting with readers who will like your stories (this is my mantra, and it enables me to treat bad scores like water off a duck's back). Savor good comments and forget the bad ones.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm going to suggest a change to the site

Right now this is what it says on the main page under the Author's hangout

A place for writers and readers to socialize and discuss the craft of writing.

I suggest it be changed to

A place where writers whine about trolls, complain about scores that aren't 4.9 and obsess about numbers...with a smattering of talk about actual writing tossed in to break up the monotony.

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

I get everything you're saying, I think it's just that I'm having this reaction because it's the first time I've dealt with something like this. I just started posting erotic fiction recently for the first time in my life, and yeah, I just need to adjust. I totally agree with you, I don't worry about the scores at all, I just got all hot about the people who seem to want to hurt. I should just fuck them right off and connect with people, like you Simon!

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

I'm going to suggest a change to the site

Right now this is what it says on the main page under the Author's hangout

A place for writers and readers to socialize and discuss the craft of writing.

I suggest it be changed to

A place where writers whine about trolls, complain about scores that aren't 4.9 and obsess about numbers...with a smattering of talk about actual writing tossed in to break up the monotony.

You're right. I'll shut up now. I personally am not obsessed with the numbers. Let's talk about writing

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm going to suggest a change to the site

Right now this is what it says on the main page under the Author's hangout

A place for writers and readers to socialize and discuss the craft of writing.

I suggest it be changed to

A place where writers whine about trolls, complain about scores that aren't 4.9 and obsess about numbers...with a smattering of talk about actual writing tossed in to break up the monotony.

Haha.

You know, nobody's ever going to pick you as the guy to lead the sunshine-and-roses brigade. Of course, you wouldn't pick the name "Lovecraft" if you were that guy.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I don't know if this has been put out there before, but here is my simple idea:

To weed out trolls, you do this.

If you read a story (or fucking 3 words of one like some of the 'reviews' I've gotten), and you desperately want to give it 1 single fucking star, you HAVE to:

1) Have an account here, and
2) Submit a short explanation to the author why you felt it was the most abysmal thing that you have to give a 1 to.

and possibly, but not definitely

3) That explanation cannot be simply 'it's too long.' I'm sick of that shit. That's not criticism, that's not rating something, that's being a piece of shit. I got an anonymous feedback that said "10 pages. 90-100 pages in Word. Rating of 1." Fuck you, troll, and your shit shouldn't count. If that's their explanation, we have some way of deleting that rating.

I sympathise with your frustration. I absolutely do accept that there are assholes who one-bomb stories they haven't read.

But I think the most likely outcome of this is that those assholes start voting 2 instead, which for most stories doesn't make much difference. I don't know the inner workings of the sweeps system but I suspect it may be harder to detect bad-faith 2s than 1s (the more extreme the vote, the more noticeable it is by various statistical methods) so in the long run it may actually make trolls *more* effective in dragging down the score.

I think the requirement for a registered account here is also a strong disincentive to legitimate 1s. Now and then I encounter a story which is downright hateful. I don't mean "ew, not my fetish" or "story has bad people who do bad things"; I mean "author's awfulness shows through the stories".

I think it's reasonable to give those stories 1-stars, and I also think it's reasonable to want to do so without leaving anything that could allow retaliation. I've been Internet-stalked in the past and I can't recommend the experience.

Under your proposal, I'd either be 2-bombing instead (which does other readers a disservice, since it's inflating the scores of a story that should be getting 1s) or setting up an alt account purely for voting on that kind of story. I'm not sure the latter is something we really want to encourage, nor that it really reduces the problem. You only have to look at the General Board to see that plenty of assholes are willing to be assholes under a registered account.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I get everything you're saying, I think it's just that I'm having this reaction because it's the first time I've dealt with something like this. I just started posting erotic fiction recently for the first time in my life, and yeah, I just need to adjust. I totally agree with you, I don't worry about the scores at all, I just got all hot about the people who seem to want to hurt. I should just fuck them right off and connect with people, like you Simon!

That's the thing, Holly. All new writers go through the roller coaster of what the scores mean, we've all done it. And over time you adjust to it at all, you figure out what it means for YOU. Sometimes folk figure out for themselves how the sweeps might work, some never do.

I figured it out to my own satisfaction (I might be right, I might be wrong), and once I figured it out I find scores meaningful. But only in the context of my own stories.

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

Haha.

You know, nobody's ever going to pick you as the guy to lead the sunshine-and-roses brigade. Of course, you wouldn't pick the name "Lovecraft" if you were that guy.

Has anyone ever written a horror erotic story about Harold Phillips Lovecraft himself having sex with a non-Anglo Saxon? That'd be fun, and full of paranoia and Lovecraftspeak. He'd be all freaked out, man.

'Her eldritch cyclopean vaginal walls' etc.

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

Has anyone ever written a horror erotic story about Harold Phillips Lovecraft himself having sex with a non-Anglo Saxon? That'd be fun, and full of paranoia and Lovecraftspeak. He'd be all freaked out, man.

'Her eldritch cyclopean vaginal walls' etc.

Ok, calling it if it's not out there already. I just saved it in my drafts.

'The Horror Cunt of Illsmethtown'
HP Lovecraft has scary sex with a non-Anglo Saxon in a room.

Hahaha

 

[Bramblethorn]

Has anyone ever written a horror erotic story about Harold Phillips Lovecraft himself having sex with a non-Anglo Saxon? That'd be fun, and full of paranoia and Lovecraftspeak. He'd be all freaked out, man.

'Her eldritch cyclopean vaginal walls' etc.

HPL's wife, Sonia Greene, was Jewish. I gather a large amount of cognitive dissonance was involved on both sides.

 

[jackpackage1]

Help!

Hi I am a new author and was having a little issue. I went to publish my story. then it was pending. now I can't find it at all. Any idea what was going on.

 

[Isabel_Innuende]

Hi I am a new author and was having a little issue. I went to publish my story. then it was pending. now I can't find it at all. Any idea what was going on.

Hey bud. This is a bit off-topic for this thread.

You might want to try creating your own thread and asking this question here:

Lit Tech Support

Good luck!

 

[HollyLoriAnnalee]

Hi I am a new author and was having a little issue. I went to publish my story. then it was pending. now I can't find it at all. Any idea what was going on.

That's a true nightmare holy moly. I write mine in word, then paste the finalish version into Lit. Then of course I edit it a few more* times.

*100-200 more

 

[SimonDoom]

Personally, I would like to have the scores removed from the 'New Stories' lists. We all get bombed, but those with a small group of followers are often hit harder, as they may not attract the number of readers to compensate these down-votes. It is in the New Stories lists that the bombs have the strongest effects, as I'm certain that low scores keep potential readers away. Sweeps are useless here, because of the short time that the stories are up in these lists, and because the sweeps don't happen on a daily basis.

The problem with this is that it shortchanges readers. A new incest story will be on the new incest story hub page for one, or perhaps two, days. If I'm checking out that page, looking for one or two incest stories to read, I want to know what the highly rated stories are so I don't have to sift through 25 stories. If the Site got rid of scoring new stories then I, as a reader, would be deprived of a tool that is useful to me.

 

[SimonDoom]

So, power to the 1-bombs.

No, it's more a matter of authors sucking it up because readers matter more than we do. From the Site's standpoint, there's no case to be made for sacrificing reader happiness for the sake of authors' sensitivities.

I've had plenty of 1-bombs. At first, when I got them I was puzzled and dismayed. Now I just think it's amusing, and I don't understand why people care so much. I really, truly don't get it. We're all in the same boat. What we are experiencing is an aspect of the power that words have on people. Sometimes our words drive people crazy or offend them or make them madder than hell, and it's good, not bad, that we know that. I think it comes with the territory of publishing a story to the world.

 

[8letters]

So, power to the 1-bombs.

1-bombs in I/T don't have much of an effect. Stories there get a lot of votes, so one vote quickly gets drowned. Even if a 1-bomb did have a significant effect on the rating, it still wouldn't matter. At what point do you think the rating of a non-chapter I/T story causes the number of views to significantly drop off? I know what it is and a 1-bomb ain't going to take you there.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Out of interest - I fully confess to being a stats nerd, and posting a series a chapter every 3 days for the last month has given me lots of data - how many votes and views do most people's stories get in their first couple days after posting?

Because while contest entries get me 30,000 views and possibly 100 votes, others struggle to get 2000 views and take months to hit 10 votes - making the effect of each vote very obvious however little I try to care. I know I'm not an author catering to the masses, more like some hypothetical penguins, but it's always fascinating trying to figure out what is going through readers' minds when they look at my.stories.

E.g. why do I have 3x the readers for Chapter 5 than for chapters 2, 3, or 4, and more for Chapter 9 than any of them? I suspect the description helped for the former (Ade gets fucked) and the tags for the latter (included 'fisting' and 'vaginal fisting'), but clearly liking one chapter didn't persuade many readers to see what they'd missed. A fascinating insight, I feel.

Kinda a shame I just can't write incest, to attract readers who might like my other stuff, but there we are.

 

[ElectricBlue]

E.g. why do I have 3x the readers for Chapter 5 than for chapters 2, 3, or 4, and more for Chapter 9 than any of them? I suspect the description helped for the former (Ade gets fucked) and the tags for the latter (included 'fisting' and 'vaginal fisting'), but clearly liking one chapter didn't persuade many readers to see what they'd missed. A fascinating insight, I feel.

I've done some deliberate experiments to figure that out, and I reckon it's down to that chapter being very, very good and you're getting repeat reads - three times higher is certainly a blip of excellence.

Other than that, my main conclusion is that readers are entirely predictable in their behaviour, except when they're not.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Personally, I would like to have the scores removed from the 'New Stories' lists. We all get bombed, but those with a small group of followers are often hit harder, as they may not attract the number of readers to compensate these down-votes. It is in the New Stories lists that the bombs have the strongest effects, as I'm certain that low scores keep potential readers away. Sweeps are useless here, because of the short time that the stories are up in these lists, and because the sweeps don't happen on a daily basis.

I heartily agree with this one. Even without malicious bombing, new stories don't usually have enough votes to give a decent estimate of the long-term score.