Study: 'Medicare for all' projected to cost $32.6 trillion

[Rightguide]

Well SFB, why don't you take a look at the GDP growth of those nations that DO have UHC over the past 60 years. Your premise is as stupid as your stupid ass remark.

Check the sub standard quality as well.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Seems to me going single payer would just clear up the confusion.

It would be if it were done efficiently and should only cost half what you pay at most because that would still be overpaying.

But it won't get the money needed to maintain the current corruption that the vast majority of our politicians support nor do the (D)'s want to give up their carrot on a stick. Obama and the (D)'s made that abundantly clear.

So it won't ever fucking happen.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Sure.

Now you're all caught up.

Oh....so you can't read (or you're desperate to make shit up for some reason) nor do you understand the basic concepts of liberalism.

Not shocking, but thanks for playing anyhow.

 

[about_average]

Well SFB, why don't you take a look at the GDP growth of those nations that DO have UHC over the past 60 years. Your premise is as stupid as your stupid ass remark.

That's a very poor dodge, even for you.

Breaking news!!
The US isn't other countries.

Oh....so you can't read (or you're desperate to make shit up for some reason) nor do you understand the basic concepts of liberalism.

Not shocking, but thanks for playing anyhow.

OK, so spell it out for me.
How is the government coming between a person and their doctor pro-freedom?
How is putting a doctor and a woman in prison for conspiracy to commit murder pro-freedom?
How is passing a personally invasive law to win support of christian zealots pro-freedom?

 

[bellisarius]

That's a very poor dodge, even for you.

Breaking news!!
The US isn't other countries.

So we're going to do it differently, smarter, cost effective. I see NOTHING in any proposed policies/laws that supports any of the aforementioned. And the reason is that it CAN'T be done any differently. The question isn't whether you're going to fuck things up, only the degree to which you're going to do so.

Look at that abortion "Shuck'N'JiveCare". Legislation that was the product of the "bets and brightest" minds the nation had to offer.

 

[BotanyBoy]

That's a very poor dodge, even for you.

Breaking news!!
The US isn't other countries.


OK, so spell it out for me.
How is the government coming between a person and their doctor pro-freedom?
How is putting a doctor and a woman in prison for conspiracy to commit murder pro-freedom?
How is passing a personally invasive law to win support of christian zealots pro-freedom?

The same way murder laws are pro-freedom and totally acceptable to the liberal political philosophy even though it infringes on the freedom for people to just kill whoever they want for whatever they want.

I refer you again to the Harm Principle.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Breaking news!!
The US isn't other countries.

Isn't that usually the argument for not socializing our economy/society.....?

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

Medicare for All is a terrible idea; they contract everything out at very high costs to private companies, thus the bloated costs to run it. As an example, this company was just awarded a $900 million per year contract to determine eligibility for people who seek a health plan:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...rting-health-benefit-exchanges-300660700.html

Forget Medicare for All, that would be a free for all for these companies to suck tax dollars out of the "health care" system.

Fully nationalize health care, build an infrastructure in which public employees are the administration force instead of private companies who get these contracts from their friends...

OR...

Let's go fully cash based, with insurance only servicing catastrophic events. Sort of like how you pay your own car's oil change, but have insurance for when bad luck hits. You fat slobs who can't be bothered to eat well and exercise will find yourselves in the same boat as those too lazy to maintain their cars.

 

[Que]

I don't know what was I thinking.

You're right, a person working for 20 years doesn't contribute any more to the GDP than a dead person.
Thanks for setting me straight.

Your gratuitous assertion wrongly presupposes that universal healthcare will decrease rather than increase mortality rates. Which is not true because of actual economics, not the phony voodoo economics of Paul Krugman that assumes that economics can be modeled in static, rather than dynamic form and that people do not make different choices when they are presented with new options.

Even if you assume that somehow the price of healthcare will be cheaper if we continue to pay for all of the same services and procedures as well as an expensive bureaucracy to administer all those services and procedures you still have no possible way that you were going to alleviate our doctor shortage by paying them less.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Forget Medicare for All, that would be a free for all for these companies to suck tax dollars out of the "health care" system.

Fully nationalize health care, build an infrastructure in which public employees are the administration force instead of private companies who get these contracts from their friends...

OR...

Let's go fully cash based, with insurance only servicing catastrophic events. Sort of like how you pay your own car's oil change, but have insurance for when bad luck hits. You fat slobs who can't be bothered to eat well and exercise will find yourselves in the same boat as those too lazy to maintain their cars.

100%....nationalize it or give it back to the private sector. The half assed mix is a terrible disaster and needs to be taken out into the back 40 and put down.

 

[bellisarius]

Medicare for All is a terrible idea; they contract everything out at very high costs to private companies, thus the bloated costs to run it. As an example, this company was just awarded a $900 million per year contract to determine eligibility for people who seek a health plan:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...rting-health-benefit-exchanges-300660700.html

Forget Medicare for All, that would be a free for all for these companies to suck tax dollars out of the "health care" system.

Fully nationalize health care, build an infrastructure in which public employees are the administration force instead of private companies who get these contracts from their friends...

OR...

Let's go fully cash based, with insurance only servicing catastrophic events. Sort of like how you pay your own car's oil change, but have insurance for when bad luck hits. You fat slobs who can't be bothered to eat well and exercise will find yourselves in the same boat as those too lazy to maintain their cars.

I'm all for Plan B.

Someone in this thread was bitching about the horrendous costs of an MRI. guess what sports fans, $510 if you pay cash. As a matter of fact anyone can go to a doctor, hospital, whatever and cut a cash deal and you'd be amazed at the savings. Often more than 50%.

 

[about_average]

The same way murder laws are pro-freedom and totally acceptable to the liberal political philosophy even though it infringes on the freedom for people to just kill whoever they want for whatever they want.

Apples and oranges.
I've never met anyone who argues that a person walking, talking breathing isn't a living human being.
But if you want to support someone who believes abortion is murder, that's certainly your right.
If you want to support someone who also thinks government should be allowed to outlaw birth control, that also is your right.

Just as it's my right to ignore your BS hypocrisy.

 

[about_average]

Even if you assume that somehow the price of healthcare will be cheaper if we continue to pay for all of the same services and procedures as well as an expensive bureaucracy to administer all those services and procedures you still have no possible way that you were going to alleviate our doctor shortage by paying them less.

Nice description of how insurance companies operate.

 

[about_average]

Fully nationalize health care, build an infrastructure in which public employees are the administration force instead of private companies who get these contracts from their friends...

Wow, we actually agree on something.

BCBS actually started out as a not for profit coop, localized you might say, rather than nationalized, that people paid a fixed amount in to for full coverage.
Some years later other companies came in and saw a way to reap huge profits by charging slightly less for much less coverage and started the nationwide decline in to the fucked up health care system we have in the country today.

 

[Que]

Medicare for All is a terrible idea; they contract everything out at very high costs to private companies, thus the bloated costs to run it. As an example, this company was just awarded a $900 million per year contract to determine eligibility for people who seek a health plan:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...rting-health-benefit-exchanges-300660700.html

Forget Medicare for All, that would be a free for all for these companies to suck tax dollars out of the "health care" system.

Fully nationalize health care, build an infrastructure in which public employees are the administration force instead of private companies who get these contracts from their friends...

OR...

Let's go fully cash based, with insurance only servicing catastrophic events. Sort of like how you pay your own car's oil change, but have insurance for when bad luck hits. You fat slobs who can't be bothered to eat well and exercise will find yourselves in the same boat as those too lazy to maintain their cars.

100% right on both counts.

I naturally favor the cash model with insurance for catastrophic events. That would actually reduce the cost because consumers Woodshop the same way that the prices of elective and cosmetic surgeries have gone down as consumers shop in are price sensitive.

The only way we're going to get to that point is to decouple employment from insurance. And the only way to do that is to quit treating that as a non taxable event when your employer pays for insurance on your behalf it is certainly a taxable event and you should be taxed for that.

The nationalized model is arguably more humane if you want to consider that everyone can get some basic level of care and palliative care to ease you into the next life, when you reach that point where any objective cost-benefit analysis would suggest that further treatment is not of benefit to society. There's no reason you can't have good hospice care and an honest dialogue about what is and is not worth doing in the last few months of life.

How about here in America government workers are quite overpaid it is possible that maybe doctors would be similarly well compensated but I tend to doubt it. I would think we would be at a race to the bottom which would mean that we would get doctors trained but they wouldn't be the cream-of-the-crop because nobody's going to go into medicine if it doesn't pay like it does now.

Cuban doctors make $25 a month. Cuba has lots and lots of doctors. The quality of Cuban doctors is not very good most of them cannot pass the basic exam to get into a program to become a physician's assistant when they get here.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Every single time one of the usual blowholes here yammers about "teh cash option", I'm reminded of that AJ-class dullard who got national attention because he said he didn't need no health insurance, he had 10 grand IN CASH to pay all his medical bills.

...then ole Jethro found out he had a cancer in his optic nerve, and wouldn't you know it? That ten grand was gone just like that!

Only....he wasn't gettin' better. Last I heard he was begging on GoFundMe "Please don't let me go blind!"

Mouth breathing RWCJers simply don't understand health insurance.

 

[Que]

Nice description of how insurance companies operate.

Do you think the government who has never done anything efficiently and well is somehow going to bend the cost curve down by hiring a bunch of bureaucrats to run their own insurance company? How exactly is that going to work?

It doesn't work for the current Medicare program it doesn't work for Indian Health Services and it doesn't work for Veterans Administration.

But if we make Leviathan even bigger it's got to work right?...right?

 

[about_average]

I would think we would be at a race to the bottom which would mean that we would get doctors trained but they wouldn't be the cream-of-the-crop because nobody's going to go into medicine if it doesn't pay like it does now.

So all the doctors practicing medicine for $59,000 - $139,000 a year (the range for a GP) didn't really go in to medicine?

 

[about_average]

Do you think the government who has never done anything efficiently and well is somehow going to bend the cost curve down by hiring a bunch of bureaucrats to run their own insurance company? How exactly is that going to work?

It doesn't work for the current Medicare program it doesn't work for Indian Health Services and it doesn't work for Veterans Administration.

But if we make Leviathan even bigger it's got to work right?...right?

Not if people like you continue to support corrupt politicians.

 

[Boxlicker101]

So all the doctors practicing medicine for $59,000 - $139,000 a year (the range for a GP) didn't really go in to medicine?

I find it hard to believe that MD's who have finished their training receive that little.

ETA: My doubts are justified: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jacque...worst-paying-jobs-for-doctors-2/#5025dc98a2a3

 

[Que]

So all the doctors practicing medicine for $59,000 - $139,000 a year (the range for a GP) didn't really go in to medicine?

What part of if it doesn't pay like it does now are you having trouble with exactly?

Those figures by the way are net. And don't reflect it all what a doctor can expect to make in an established practice.. You have any idea how much liability insurance cost? You can think the Trial Lawyers Association which primarily support democrats for that which is a huge part of a cost of American Medicine.

 

[Que]

Not if people like you continue to support corrupt politicians.

Which honest confident and totally not corrupt politician do people like you support?

Since you've gone into full Sergeant Spidey mode I'm going to have to draw it out of you like pulling teeth. Are you suggesting that the only thing standing between your desired socialist medicine Utopia and reality is just the right set of politicians? Because that's what's implied by what you just said and that's silly on its face.

Politicians do not do much in the way of direct oversight of the bureaucrats we have now for a much smaller bureaucracy than what would be required for this Leviathan as proposed.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I find it hard to believe that MD's who have finished their training receive that little.

ETA: My doubts are justified: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jacque...worst-paying-jobs-for-doctors-2/#5025dc98a2a3

Stupid filipinofucker, did you see the qualifier "GP"?
Here's a 2018 link supporting HIS claim and debunking yours.

You lumped in a variety of specialities into your so-called "proof".

 

[BotanyBoy]

Which honest confident and totally not corrupt politician do people like you support?

The pure as the driven snow altruistic individuals that comprise the DNC of course!!!

LMFAO!!!!

So all the doctors practicing medicine for $59,000 - $139,000 a year (the range for a GP) didn't really go in to medicine?

That's fucking pathetic.....I know lawn boys banging out better than that.

Who the fuck goes through that much shit and takes on that much debt to make 60 a year?

Idiots would be better off getting a CDL.

 

[bellisarius]

I find it hard to believe that MD's who have finished their training receive that little.

ETA: My doubts are justified: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jacque...worst-paying-jobs-for-doctors-2/#5025dc98a2a3

You may want to note that those physicians that are salaried by hospitals their salaries are just the tip of the iceberg. All of those other people still have to be paid too.