Some poly, some kink, some other stuff ...

[KimGordon67]

Spoiler alert

Thanks all ... these various posts are bizarrely relevant in my life right now, for reasons I'll get to eventually but which probably aren't difficult to guess.

 

[Iamsubmissive]

Oh no...

Thanks all ... these various posts are bizarrely relevant in my life right now, for reasons I'll get to eventually but which probably aren't difficult to guess.

Hope everything is going OK for you...

 

[tbm335]

Kim, I really appreciate your sharing this journey with us. I feel as though I may be in a place similar to where you were a few years ago, and some of the choices I'm considering are along the lines of what you eventually explored.

I have to admit that there is a part of me that selfishly wants you to get to the end (!) because I'm so anxious to read where you are today. But please don't rush any of it. Your story is really helping me think through things, and your writing is captivating. Please keep it coming, and thank you.

Oh, and that part where you corrected someone's grammar in the middle of a cyber session? I TOTALLY would have done that, too.

 

[RacyWilde]

I agree. A couple of years ago I was diagnosed with an illness that will mean that my SO and I will probably not have long together. The temptation in that case, of course, is for the well person to turn full-time carer and give up on all other aspects of life – but your idea is the right one.

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. But you've got such a great attitude.

I also had a long term relationship that ended this way...we actually continued to cohabitate (just moved into separate rooms) for almost a year after our break up. We were very mature about it...split everything evenly (bills and assets), dated other people during that time but never brought them back to our shared home, respected each others privacy, and were still willing to help each other out (not sexually) if the other needed it. We're still friends to this day...best but saddest breakup I ever had.

Also agree with the other things said in your post. Relationships of any kind take hard work and mutual consideration and respect, and breakups shouldn't really change those rules.

Yes, you know you're an adult when you can resolve keeping your dignity.

Thanks all ... these various posts are bizarrely relevant in my life right now, for reasons I'll get to eventually but which probably aren't difficult to guess.

Thanks for posting. It's great to be able to gain insight, ponder, and to take things into my own life. Looking forward to more.

 

[KimGordon67]

I was no angel ...

I just realised all this sounds like I was terribly adult and dignified all the time ... that very definitely wasn't the case. Both before and after discovering Lit I ... well, I had my moments. For some reason, I went through a while (probably years) of wanting sex a LOT and loving the 'freedom' that the interweb seemed to give me. So yeah, I signed into chat sites with seedy screen names like 'FreshlyWaxed' or 'SpankMe'; I had one off cyber-interactions that involved ridiculous scenarios in parking lots; I chatted with guys who were clearly not even slightly interested in 'me', nor I in 'them'; I'd sign into sites demanding cyber-oral with very clear statements that there'd be no reciprocation; I had mortifying phone sex with complete strangers just because I liked their sound of their voice; I'd terminate interactions with no explanation just because I got bored, or distracted by something shinier and more fun ... and I'm sure there were worse things that I've edited out of my memory banks.

I'm not like that NOW though, so don't get all excited.

I've just checked some dates (because, yes, I'm so much of a masochist that I kept his 'goodbye' email), and it was literally a month later that I joined Lit. I was so happy to find this place ... the 'adult chat' I'd been using before was so feral and finding anyone even vaguely decent required wading through endless amounts of pig shit. All you had to go on was a screen name, and while some people were imaginative enough to make that work, others just went with 'BigCock1234', which isn't really super-helpful. I love how Lit lets you discover a bit about someone, and the lack of immediacy suits me well - I like getting to know someone before moving into a more amendable format for chatting/whatever. And the nature of the site means people are less likely to use text language, which brings me out in a rash. It was like I'd finally found my ideal online medium.

 

[The_Ghost_Man]

No angel

So yeah, I signed into chat sites with seedy screen names like 'FreshlyWaxed' or 'SpankMe'; I had one off cyber-interactions that involved ridiculous scenarios in parking lots; I chatted with guys who were clearly not even slightly interested in 'me', nor I in 'them'; I'd sign into sites demanding cyber-oral with very clear statements that there'd be no reciprocation; I had mortifying phone sex with complete strangers just because I liked their sound of their voice; I'd terminate interactions with no explanation just because I got bored, or distracted by something shinier and more fun ... and I'm sure there were worse things that I've edited out of my memory banks.

I'm not like that NOW though, so don't get all excited.

Damn it! But listen, if ever you want to reprise SpankMe, I'm always here for you baby. In a very adult and dignified way of course.

 

[KimGordon67]

Damn it! But listen, if ever you want to reprise SpankMe, I'm always here for you baby. In a very adult and dignified way of course.

LOL - that role's pretty much taken now.

(NB - 'FreshlyWaxed' seldom actually was. She just ignored request for photos.)

 

[Green_Knight]

...(NB - 'FreshlyWaxed' seldom actually was. She just ignored request for photos.)

Photoshop's a wonderful thing!

 

[KimGordon67]

Photoshop's a wonderful thing!

I"d never be that decept ... oh, hang on. No - I was just too lazy.

 

[KimGordon67]

I met a few guys ... maybe two or three ... on Lit that I had shortish things with. All were lovely, but it just quite gel for various reasons.
And then along came TG, and the beginning of one of the strangest years of my life. I still have the very first PMs we exchanged - we started (and continued) talking about music, but there was clearly some flirting in there from the get-go. Reading back over them now, they're pretty adorable, but I can so see the spark that was there from the beginning - there's this quickness to our exchanges, we picked up on each other cues like lightening ... it's all the epitome of 'banter', but with a clear edge.
One of the things that instantly hooked me was sharing this with him (or a version thereof), and he got it instantly ... and 'tea' became our euphemism for ever after.
http://rockstardinosaurpirateprincess.com/2015/03/02/consent-not-actually-that-complicated/
And I was smitten. I'd open my Lit account every morning hoping for a PM from him, and yes, my heart would skip a beat if there was one there. The funny thing was, I found out later we were BOTH playing it very cool ... but I guess sometimes that works.

I just realised all this sounds like I was terribly adult and dignified all the time ... that very definitely wasn't the case. Both before and after discovering Lit I ... well, I had my moments. For some reason, I went through a while (probably years) of wanting sex a LOT and loving the 'freedom' that the interweb seemed to give me. So yeah, I signed into chat sites with seedy screen names like 'FreshlyWaxed' or 'SpankMe'; I had one off cyber-interactions that involved ridiculous scenarios in parking lots; I chatted with guys who were clearly not even slightly interested in 'me', nor I in 'them'; I'd sign into sites demanding cyber-oral with very clear statements that there'd be no reciprocation; I had mortifying phone sex with complete strangers just because I liked their sound of their voice; I'd terminate interactions with no explanation just because I got bored, or distracted by something shinier and more fun ... and I'm sure there were worse things that I've edited out of my memory banks.

I'm not like that NOW though, so don't get all excited.

 

[Green_Knight]

It's fascinating, isn't it, that people seem to prefer there to be some other spark to start the exchange - in your case music - even on Lit where there is a fairly basic premise to our being here. I suppose we all have these trigger subjects that help us to gel with someone. I wonder what we might be missing out on simply because we don't share a specific interest with someone but with whom we might otherwise be a very good match.

I met a few guys ... maybe two or three ... on Lit that I had shortish things with. All were lovely, but it just quite gel for various reasons.
And then along came TG, and the beginning of one of the strangest years of my life. I still have the very first PMs we exchanged - we started (and continued) talking about music, but there was clearly some flirting in there from the get-go. Reading back over them now, they're pretty adorable, but I can so see the spark that was there from the beginning - there's this quickness to our exchanges, we picked up on each other cues like lightening ... it's all the epitome of 'banter', but with a clear edge.
One of the things that instantly hooked me was sharing this with him (or a version thereof), and he got it instantly ... and 'tea' became our euphemism for ever after.
http://rockstardinosaurpirateprincess.com/2015/03/02/consent-not-actually-that-complicated/
And I was smitten. I'd open my Lit account every morning hoping for a PM from him, and yes, my heart would skip a beat if there was one there. The funny thing was, I found out later we were BOTH playing it very cool ... but I guess sometimes that works.

 

[KimGordon67]

I've thought about that a lot, but honestly, the only things I've ever had that had legs (whether in the real world or online) have been with people who like similar music ... I honestly try to branch out every now and then, but it just doesn't work. In part, for me anyway, it's because 'similar music taste' is often shorthand for other stuff, like aligned politics, a whole range of similar popular culture references, a general attitude towards life. I need to be able to talk to people as WELL as the sex stuff, and if you don't have at least some of these things in common, it's tricky to find anything to talk about.
Also, the sex I've discovered I like involves a fair degree of trust, and trust requires some sort of relationship, and you can't have a relationship with someone you don't get on with.

It's fascinating, isn't it, that people seem to prefer there to be some other spark to start the exchange - in your case music - even on Lit where there is a fairly basic premise to our being here. I suppose we all have these trigger subjects that help us to gel with someone. I wonder what we might be missing out on simply because we don't share a specific interest with someone but with whom we might otherwise be a very good match.

 

[Green_Knight]

I don't disagree with you and I can understand that music means a lot more than just a collection of notes. It's interesting, though, that you quickly moved on to a mutual meeting point on the question of 'what is consent?', testing and clarifying rather broader attitudes, as it were and building up the trust between you. And yes, if we're making any kind of 'life' with someone, we do (or will eventually) need some kind of meeting point beyond sex - but I'm not one hundred per cent sure how much a common interest is vital. I've had some fascinating relationships in which my interests and hers have been very different and that, in itself, has served as a fantastic spark - and sometimes a better one that those in which our interests have been too close. That can end up like looking in the mirror all the time.

There are some cultures - I've just been reading about the experiences of early western explorers to the Pacific islands - in which such preliminaries are seen as unnecessary and are dispensed with. I wonder what makes them so different?

I've thought about that a lot, but honestly, the only things I've ever had that had legs (whether in the real world or online) have been with people who like similar music ... I honestly try to branch out every now and then, but it just doesn't work. In part, for me anyway, it's because 'similar music taste' is often shorthand for other stuff, like aligned politics, a whole range of similar popular culture references, a general attitude towards life. I need to be able to talk to people as WELL as the sex stuff, and if you don't have at least some of these things in common, it's tricky to find anything to talk about.
Also, the sex I've discovered I like involves a fair degree of trust, and trust requires some sort of relationship, and you can't have a relationship with someone you don't get on with.

 

[KimGordon67]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'preliminaries' and them being 'dispensed with' in Pacific cultures?

I don't disagree with you and I can understand that music means a lot more than just a collection of notes. It's interesting, though, that you quickly moved on to a mutual meeting point on the question of 'what is consent?', testing and clarifying rather broader attitudes, as it were and building up the trust between you. And yes, if we're making any kind of 'life' with someone, we do (or will eventually) need some kind of meeting point beyond sex - but I'm not one hundred per cent sure how much a common interest is vital. I've had some fascinating relationships in which my interests and hers have been very different and that, in itself, has served as a fantastic spark - and sometimes a better one that those in which our interests have been too close. That can end up like looking in the mirror all the time.

There are some cultures - I've just been reading about the experiences of early western explorers to the Pacific islands - in which such preliminaries are seen as unnecessary and are dispensed with. I wonder what makes them so different?

 

[Green_Knight]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'preliminaries' and them being 'dispensed with' in Pacific cultures?

From what I have read (usual caveats), the girls simply offered themselves to the British sailors. Needless to say, the lack of a common language made polite, formal introductions an impossibility.

This behaviour soon became described in western terms as 'promiscuous' with all the connotations we place on that word, and I doubt that things stayed like that for long once the missionaries arrived.

http://polynesianresourcecenter.com/culture/item/polynesian-sexual-customs

 

[Green_Knight]

Moving back to an earlier theme – and hoping this won't take the thread in a direction you don't want it to go – I'm interested in the differences between the approaches two people take to each other in VR compared to RL.

You have described how, on the internet, you look for some point of contact first – in your case, music and its associated values. Only then, it seems, does the question of sexual interest seem to arise. The same is probably true of internet dating – you look at the picture (and hope that it's not years old or unduly flattering) and read the profile. If that's interesting, you meet, but only then do you usually find out if there's really any sexual attraction and very often mutual interests may not be enough unless all you want is some less-than-stimulating chat.

In real life, things tend to be different. I can think of a couple of 'for instances' that stand out in my mind. The first was when I met a woman on an event that suggested we had a shared interest but no more than, say, if we shared an interest in music – mine being in Tudor madrigals and hers in Punk. Despite our time together that day being relatively small, it was immediately obvious there was sexual attraction. We met a couple of weeks later in a neutral environment and some pretty serious 'getting to know you icebreaking' then took place to see if there might be anything beyond just sex. A few days later... The second was a girl at work. Even though she was only half my age (she acted much older and I was stunned when I met her best female friend who turned out to be nearer my age than hers), I very badly wanted to fuck her from the moment I met her and her body language made me 99.9 per cent certain it was reciprocated. However, in that case, as we got to know each other better, although we found that we had similar views and attitudes, our reactions and ways of dealing with them were very different and it would have been disastrous. It was a close run thing!

In both cases (and in another more recent one that I'm not going to go into) it was definitely sexual attraction that came first and the question of shared values and thoughts only came afterwards.

Is that more typical of real life?

I've thought about that a lot, but honestly, the only things I've ever had that had legs (whether in the real world or online) have been with people who like similar music ... I honestly try to branch out every now and then, but it just doesn't work. In part, for me anyway, it's because 'similar music taste' is often shorthand for other stuff, like aligned politics, a whole range of similar popular culture references, a general attitude towards life. I need to be able to talk to people as WELL as the sex stuff, and if you don't have at least some of these things in common, it's tricky to find anything to talk about.
Also, the sex I've discovered I like involves a fair degree of trust, and trust requires some sort of relationship, and you can't have a relationship with someone you don't get on with.

 

[KimGordon67]

OK, I'll admit that I didn't read the entirety of the link you've provided, but I would be extremely cautious about taking this particular site as a source of any sort of factual information. (It's also notable that the site contains absolutely no information about the author/s, and a Google search reveals no further information about the 'Trust' that runs it.)

From what I have read (usual caveats), the girls simply offered themselves to the British sailors. Needless to say, the lack of a common language made polite, formal introductions an impossibility.

This behaviour soon became described in western terms as 'promiscuous' with all the connotations we place on that word, and I doubt that things stayed like that for long once the missionaries arrived.

http://polynesianresourcecenter.com/culture/item/polynesian-sexual-customs

 

[KimGordon67]

I take your point, but in my case I would say RL and VR mirror each other pretty well (with the obvious absence of the lack of physical indicators of a whole lot of things in VR). Pretty much every serious relationship, and almost all of the other sexual encounters I've had have been with boys in bands, or with boys I've bet at gigs. I think every actual boyfriend I've had prior to my husband were guys in bands. My husband and I got together at a show we were going to see together - yes, we met in class at university, but the actual 'getting together' was, again, based around a shared interest in music.
I guess there's been one or two instances where that hasn't been the case - the ex-colleague mentioned way back near the beginning of this thread would be one - but they're pretty rare and haven't ever worked out.

Moving back to an earlier theme – and hoping this won't take the thread in a direction you don't want it to go – I'm interested in the differences between the approaches two people take to each other in VR compared to RL.

You have described how, on the internet, you look for some point of contact first – in your case, music and its associated values. Only then, it seems, does the question of sexual interest seem to arise. The same is probably true of internet dating – you look at the picture (and hope that it's not years old or unduly flattering) and read the profile. If that's interesting, you meet, but only then do you usually find out if there's really any sexual attraction and very often mutual interests may not be enough unless all you want is some less-than-stimulating chat.

In real life, things tend to be different. I can think of a couple of 'for instances' that stand out in my mind. The first was when I met a woman on an event that suggested we had a shared interest but no more than, say, if we shared an interest in music – mine being in Tudor madrigals and hers in Punk. Despite our time together that day being relatively small, it was immediately obvious there was sexual attraction. We met a couple of weeks later in a neutral environment and some pretty serious 'getting to know you icebreaking' then took place to see if there might be anything beyond just sex. A few days later... The second was a girl at work. Even though she was only half my age (she acted much older and I was stunned when I met her best female friend who turned out to be nearer my age than hers), I very badly wanted to fuck her from the moment I met her and her body language made me 99.9 per cent certain it was reciprocated. However, in that case, as we got to know each other better, although we found that we had similar views and attitudes, our reactions and ways of dealing with them were very different and it would have been disastrous. It was a close run thing!

In both cases (and in another more recent one that I'm not going to go into) it was definitely sexual attraction that came first and the question of shared values and thoughts only came afterwards.

Is that more typical of real life?

 

[norwaygirl]

I was taught that the Tahitian natives believed that orgasm is when they are closest to God

 

[KimGordon67]

I was taught that the Tahitian natives believed that orgasm is when they are closest to God

Is there any actual evidence to support that notion?

 

[RickTango]

I was taught that the Tahitian natives believed that orgasm is when they are closest to God

That reminds me of a joke..the punch line is " oh god I'm coming " but probably not an appropriate subjected for this thread..

 

[KimGordon67]

That reminds me of a joke..the punch line is " oh god I'm coming " but probably not an appropriate subjected for this thread..

I think it would be safe to assume that's not really the direction I'd envisaged this thread going in ... I obviously need to get things back on the right rails again.

 

[Bramblethorn]

"But in reality Polynesia really deserved its reputation for a Golden Age of unrepressive morality and sexual liberation. Polynesians were the Bonobo of the human species, for sexual intercourse between almost all members of the group played a very important role in the cohesion and health of their society."

argh, the b-word!

Nothing against bonobos, but anything about human sexuality that invokes bonobos is almost guaranteed to be full of woo.

 

[KimGordon67]

argh, the b-word!

Nothing against bonobos, but anything about human sexuality that invokes bonobos is almost guaranteed to be full of woo.

The whole 'article' is full of similar gems ... this is why we shouldn't trust everything we read on the interweb. Even if there are pretty pictures attached.

 

[KimGordon67]

I still have all the Lit messages ... and all the external emails. I can find the email exchange now where TG is talking about how much he wants to hear my voice ... we'd obviously started cybering at that point, but he wanted more. All the instant messages conversations seem to have evaporated though ... I can't remember if I deleted them, or maybe they've just disappeared. But the emails are groaning with all sorts of things - mostly actually stated. It was clear within 3 or 4 weeks of our first contact that things were going to be ... well, a little overwhelming. I can't really share anything he said, because that would be ... something - disloyal? unethical? ... although the very early statement that he was aching to hear my voice was indicative of everything. I found this very early few sentences that I wrote though: "I think we both know how unrealistic this is. I think we both want to just ignore that, for once. We both know what the rules and boundaries are. Let's just let go, and see what happens ... with the one proviso that we both agree to be careful, not cautious, but careful with each other."

The email conversations go on forever, back and forth. He travelled a lot, I spent half the week away with my work, and we were both home alone a lot as well. Reading back through some of them now, I can see how they were sent around cyber or, after not too long, calls (over Skype). They're full of idle banter, and then sometimes terribly meaningful conversations about what we were doing, where it could possibly all go ... and interspersed with that, lust, references to things we'd done while talking, random thoughts that went through our heads about each other.

What makes me the happiest reading back through it all now is that I can see he was just as smitten as I was ... sometimes when one looks back at the beginnings of something, one or t'other of you is less keen, but we were like cats in heat.

One thing I realised is that internet mediated exchanges like this can start pervading every bit of your life so easily, if you're both in positions that allow for that. We messaged while working, we talked evenings and mornings when we could, we had long email exchanges while we were ostensibly doing other things ... there was just this constant lovely presence in my life that I couldn't get enough of. There's more to say about this, but it's interesting looking back now - when we finally stopped, one of the things I said was that I'd been drowning, and reading back through the first couple of months of exchanges, it was pretty obviously the tide came in VERY quickly. I never had a chance. I don't think either of us did really.

I met a few guys ... maybe two or three ... on Lit that I had shortish things with. All were lovely, but it just quite gel for various reasons.
And then along came TG, and the beginning of one of the strangest years of my life. I still have the very first PMs we exchanged - we started (and continued) talking about music, but there was clearly some flirting in there from the get-go. Reading back over them now, they're pretty adorable, but I can so see the spark that was there from the beginning - there's this quickness to our exchanges, we picked up on each other cues like lightening ... it's all the epitome of 'banter', but with a clear edge.
One of the things that instantly hooked me was sharing this with him (or a version thereof), and he got it instantly ... and 'tea' became our euphemism for ever after.
http://rockstardinosaurpirateprincess.com/2015/03/02/consent-not-actually-that-complicated/
And I was smitten. I'd open my Lit account every morning hoping for a PM from him, and yes, my heart would skip a beat if there was one there. The funny thing was, I found out later we were BOTH playing it very cool ... but I guess sometimes that works.