RIP Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela

[PayDay]

Yah... Payday is going on ignore.

My lit experience has been better since SR and Scummy went on ignore, and even they didn't go specifically onto in memorium posts and try to tear down the dead. (as far as I can tell)

Bye bye Payday, I can't say it's been nice

Truth is like that.

 

[PayDay]

Just to put my POV in perspective, could someone please post a link, or many links, to the great humanitarian deeds of Nobel Prize winning Mr. Mandela.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Our founding fathers were propagandists and terrorists against the English. Rolihlahla fought viciously and was a terrorist against the apartheid government.

The winners write the history books.

.

No, you get it wrong.

The American Revolution did not start with a revulsion against England, just a strong protest of 'no taxation without representation'. Reasonable, I feel, but George III - mad and out of control - ignored negotiation and started a war.

The propaganda started later.

This is in no way comparable with the indiscriminate bombing campaign Madiba orchestrated before his incarceration on Robben Island.

He did great things on his release but please don't brush over his very dark side.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

.

No, you get it wrong.

The American Revolution did not start with a revulsion against England, just a strong protest of 'no taxation without representation'. Reasonable, I feel, but George III - mad and out of control - ignored negotiation and started a war.

The propaganda started later.

This is in no way comparable with the indiscriminate bombing campaign Madiba orchestrated before his incarceration on Robben Island.

He did great things on his release but please don't brush over his very dark side.

He was also in prison for 27 years with forced hard labor and only one letter every 6 months.

It isn't like he got away scott-free.

I understand the bad things that he did.

We have a huge hero-boner for nonviolent leaders, like MLK, Ghandi, Jesus, etc.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The American Revolution came about because the East India Tea Company controlled commerce and finance in the American Colonies. And that happened because many Royals and MPs owned TC stock or had loans with TC. Americans couldn't compete when they were forced to buy their merchandise, ship, and use TC money.

So Americans started smuggling, and using Spanish Dollars for trade.

The Tea Company demanded protection from the Royal Navy and army. The Americans were taxed to pay for it. And Bobs your uncle.

 

[PayDay]

college kids...

He was also in prison for 27 years with forced hard labor and only one letter every 6 months.

It isn't like he got away scott-free.

I understand the bad things that he did.

It's been noted that he planned a bombing from his prison cell.

Not to mention, if the prison were as bad as you imply, how did he survive into his 70s to get epected or live to the ripe old age of almost 100?

We have a huge hero-boner for nonviolent leaders, like MLK, Ghandi, Jesus, etc.

That's a bold claim. The point is, Ghandi and MLK protested non-violently against abhorrently violent and difficult situtations WITHOUT ever resorting to any violence of any kind, let alone torture tactics.

It's the more difficult thing to do. Any asshole can start a violent revolution.

From what I understand, Jesus got nailed to a crossand stabbed, and then hung there until his death. This was rather than killing people.

Not everything they teach in college is fact. Same goes for the TV. Debate opinion.

 

[Setanta84]

When bringing Christ, Gandhi, and King up in this discussion, it's important to note that Christ is the only member of that group who was committed to non-violence absolutely--and even he is shown engaging in violence at least once in the Bible.

Gandhi, for example, was more of a pragmatist than people give him credit for, really. He's on the record as saying that the reason the Indian struggle for independence was largely non-violent was that it was the most effective route open to them. On that score, he's much more in line with with the Malcolm Xs and Mandelas of the world than he is with Christ.

And Bayard Rustin, not King, was the reason the American Civil Rights Movement was largely non-violent.

 

[PoppingTom]

I figured since everyone says he's so great when they are on TV, now and before, that I had to find an opposing opinion.

Opposing for the sake of opposing.

We glad you did that hard job of finding opposing opinions - on comments sections and sites with neon green backgrounds....

 

[PayDay]

Opposing for the sake of opposing.

We glad you did that hard job of finding opposing opinions - on comments sections and sites with neon green backgrounds....

Assumption. The post above you would be opposing for the sake of opposing.

I didn't choose the colors on that site. Also, the comments I referred to were on a Yahoo! page submitted by users of Yahoo! and had nothing to do with the Neon colored page. So like I already typed: assumption.

What I did find on the brightly colored page was an account from a person who was actually there, along with factual events to research with empirical and realistic data.

What I did do was not trust what other people said, because everyone is always lying, and then I proved it wih facts from his life.

When I first started to look into this guy, it was only: 'He's so dreamy!' from every article with minor accusations of various kinds: 'He used to be bad but now he's good.'

Saying you are the Pope doesn't make you the Pope.

What I did do was ask for an event in which proves Mandela is worth the drivel that has been printed about him, seriously, just one event that shows action instead of rockstar-esque speeches.

Just one.

Mandela wasn't even a remotely nice guy, and he trashed South Africa as it's leader.

 

[PoppingTom]

What I did do was not trust what other people said, because everyone is always lying, and then I proved it wih facts from his life.

It's good to know you know the truth when everybody's lying.

When I first started to look into this guy, it was only: 'He's so dreamy!' from every article with minor accusations of various kinds: 'He used to be bad but now he's good.'

He was good, for the sake of forgiveness.

If you tell me about white people the ANC killed - out of the blue? - I tell you about black people killed by the Apartheid regime - oh, thats different?

Mandela was no Mugabe. If you don't see the difference, you're the blind man telling me about the color of the sunlight.

Mandela ... trashed South Africa as it's leader.

No, he saved the country for a much worse fate.

 

[PayDay]

It's good to know you know the truth when everybody's lying.

He was good, for the sake of forgiveness.

If you tell me about white people the ANC killed - out of the blue? - I tell you about black people killed by the Apartheid regime - oh, thats different?

Mandela was no Mugabe. If you don't see the difference, you're the blind man telling me about the color of the sunlight.

No, he saved the country for a much worse fate.

Obviously uneducated on the facts. Only took me a couple of hours to do so.

It's been clearly stated that more ethnic individuals were killed by the ANC then the entire apartheid government.

Your cynicism to the subject only shows how little you know.

No thing is fact unless it is fact. Also:: I never brought race into this.

My statement was simple: "Honoring a terrorist who says he's not a terrorist anymore is bad."

Also:: I still want to know the one good action he took to make the lives of the people of South Africa better.

 

[PoppingTom]

Your cynicism to the subject only shows how little you know.

I hope you'll find the one wall you can convince.

 

[PayDay]

I hope you'll find the one wall you can convince.

So then you don't know of any humanitarian deeds he's done, and instead choose to promote his terrorist actions?

Did you defend Hitler, Stalin,and Castro as humanitarians?

What are 40,000+ dead South Africans when compared to Mandela's glorious public appearances...

 

[PoppingTom]

Truth is like that.

Ignorance causes ignorance.

Bye bye payday...

 

[PayDay]

Ignorance causes ignorance.

Bye bye payday...

It was a simple question...

 

[sexnovella]

Hero

He was the living proof that noting is impossible until you try!
The deepest of condolences from me and the worlds needs more heroes like him.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

He was the living proof that noting is impossible until you try!
The deepest of condolences from me and the worlds needs more heroes like him.

Mandela was proof that all governments and governors are gangsters.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

The apparent desire to deify Mandela is misplaced. He did very bad things and was cruelly punished. On his release-with the often ignored support of President de Klerk and Archbishop Tutu (all Nobel Peace Prize winners)-he tried to launch the concept of a Rainbow Nation. The ANC fought against this and now we have a black segregationist South Africa in place of the white supremacists.

He was a politician-not a messiah. But the guy did good, which is now being destroyed by Jacob Luma.

 

[PayDay]

Fine. I get it.

...but if he did good, what specifically was it?

 

[PoppingTom]

It was a simple question...

No, it was 3 rhetorical questions.

You're not the first busybody here, and you won't be the last. You're not even the hardest or the most creative or the most wannabe-intellectual of them.

Who do you want to impress with your ignorance?

 

[sr71plt]

We always have a self-impressed performance "artist" posting the irrelevant (to this Web site) here. Payday comes and goes. Usually few pay attention to the entrances and exits. Sort of like the "look at me" and "this is how I trimmed my nails today" and "I'm ignore climate change" threads JBJ and trysail keep running here. It does add bulk to the thread titles at least.

 

[PayDay]

We always have a self-impressed performance "artist" posting the irrelevant (to this Web site) here. Payday comes and goes. Usually few pay attention to the entrances and exits. Sort of like the "look at me" and "this is how I trimmed my nails today" and "I'm ignore climate change" threads JBJ and trysail keep running here. It does add bulk to the thread titles at least.

I like you too

...but yeah: Still don't have one good action he took. Glad it turned into personal attacks.

Also, Lit is minor by comparison to real life.

Also: 'Cats, not to be trusted.'

 

[PoppingTom]

Glad it turned into personal attacks.

Off course you are, like trolls always are.

 

[PayDay]

Off course you are, like trolls always are.

WTF are you talking about?

All I am asking for is proof of one good action Mandela took to make someone's life better besides not killing people anymore in terroist actions against a standing government.

...and now I'm a troll? Why don't you go 1 bomb my stories.

 

[PoppingTom]

All I am asking for is proof of one good action Mandela took to make someone's life better besides not killing people anymore in terroist actions against a standing government.

We already answered that question: he had forgiven his enemies, was standing for a society where people can live equally, no matter what color.

This is much much much much more than your "I never put the race card, but..."neon-green sites will ever be able to do.

You ignored these answers and put Stalin and Hitler in the game. What did you expected?

...and now I'm a troll?

If you're glad of a discussion turn into "personal attacks", then yes, you're obviously a troll.