Random rant on the day after Christmas (probably for the ladies...)

[Bramblethorn]

Well Frey, I abide by a simple rule whenever somebody new strikes up a conversation with me: always give them the benefit of the doubt until they give you a solid reason to doubt. And I have to say, I'm really happy with the results. I have met some shockingly nice people who left a very bad first impression. I have also met some really crude and hateful bastards, but it never takes long before they give me a solid reason to believe they are what they are.

I believe people who do not know you but take the time and effort to say anything to you, anything at all, generally mean well. It's just that sometimes (often, really) people are not nearly as gifted a writer as you are or can clearly express their thoughts or intentions as well as you can. This is especially true in an icebreaker situation. But because of your fans' shortcomings, you seem to feel compelled to read their thoughts between their words and in their punctuation, to fill in the gaps with your own inventions, to divine out of essentially nothing a full police profile on these ravening wolves who have the audacity to say "Hi" to you.

Do you ever get emails from dudes who want you to believe that you have a $30,000,000 inheritance from somebody you've never met, and they just need a few details from you to process the payment?

Do you ever get contact requests from attractive young ladies who can't find any nice men in their home town and want to be friends with you, and who go from "hi" to "buy me a plane ticket to come visit you" in about five emails?

If somebody told you that you should be nice to those people and assume they're honest until they prove otherwise, would you consider that good advice?

Also, I think you may have misread Freya's post - she wasn't talking about a "fan", she was talking about somebody who by his own admission had never read her stories.

I understand all too well that men and women have hidden motives when they engage in textual intercourse for the first time. This is something you just have to accept as being a member of the human race, regardless of your gender. The dance is a million years old, and it ain't never gonna change.

And yet, if a woman says "I've seen these dance steps before and I know exactly where this is headed", she's being mean-spirited and pre-judging some poor dude.

Do you not see the contradiction there, between telling women that this is an eternal pattern that just has to be accepted, and that they're not allowed to make inferences based on this pattern?

If you want to be an exemplary member of the human race, you have to handle these encounters with grace and confidence. I see the grace, but I don't see the confidence. You're second-guessing everything, but you don't have to.

(says the guy who's second-guessing her reactions)

I also believe your assertion that "But I just might" is a low-grade insult would never hold up in any court of law.

Irrelevant, because this isn't a court of law.

People are people, and the happier ones know we ALL deserve the benefit of the doubt, simply for being the fallible human beings that we are.

If you truly believe this, prove it by posting your account password here.

 

[djrip]

Do you ever get emails from dudes who want you to believe that you have a $30,000,000 inheritance from somebody you've never met, and they just need a few details from you to process the payment?

Do you ever get contact requests from attractive young ladies who can't find any nice men in their home town and want to be friends with you, and who go from "hi" to "buy me a plane ticket to come visit you" in about five emails?

That email about the inheritance or the plane ticket *is* the obvious reason to stop trusting that he said would come. It's the email before those, that just says "hi, how's it going," that he's suggesting one might want to give the benefit of the doubt to.

If you truly believe this, prove it by posting your account password here.

I believe that 99% of the people who walk by my house will not burglarize it. The lock is for the other 1%. It only takes 1% to make me need a lock. But I can still accurately say the vast majority are not burglars, and give that benefit of the doubt to a new person I meet, rather than assuming they are probably there to steal my stuff.

 

[Mastered_again]

In a PM, a welcome back to lit and an exchange of pleasant holiday greetings, then

"Do you chat anywhere, snap or telegram?"

Surprisingly, after answering, "No," I never heard from him again

 

[MillieDynamite]

Surprisingly, it wasn't a surprise to me at all.

In a PM, a welcome back to lit and an exchange of pleasant holiday greetings, then

"Do you chat anywhere, snap or telegram?"

Surprisingly, after answering, "No," I never heard from him again

 

[EmilyMiller]

I recently got asked in a PM if I planned to raise an incestuous family.

FFS!

I try to be polite. I try to be nice. But some people…

Em

 

[Kelliezgirl]

It's more disappointing when you get the incredibly-submissive men telling you they'll do anything for you.

"Excellent. Read one of my stories and tell me what you think."

"Not that."

 

[Mastered_again]

Surprisingly, it wasn't a surprise to me at all.

You're so jaded

 

[StillStunned]

I recently got asked in a PM if I planned to raise an incestuous family.

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that's something that happens spontaneously. I mean, you could plan all you like, but what if your kids are uggos?

 

[Mastered_again]

I recently got asked in a PM if I planned to raise an incestuous family.

FFS!

I try to be polite. I try to be nice. But some people…

Em

Devil worshippers, maybe

 

[EmilyMiller]

Devil worshippers, maybe

I’m pretty open to experiences (though less so than when I was at college), but there are limits.

Em

 

[AchtungNight]

I recently got asked in a PM if I planned to raise an incestuous family.

FFS!

I try to be polite. I try to be nice. But some people…

Em

You can't plan such things. Or more accurately, you shouldn't. Good sex is properly consensual and enjoyable for all parties involved. Incest isn't always like that IRL- or in fiction, actually. Neither are other kinds of sex always like that.

I myself am not attracted to my parents or anyone above a certain age- that precludes a lot of interest in incest on my part. Nor do I ever plan to write about inter-generational incest. Or incest involving legally underage parties.

Why? Because it's illegal. And wrong. I have rightfully accused my mother of a reverse Oedipal complex towards me at times- she has a history of hyping me with women and putting other people down behind their backs- this includes women I've dated and my ex wife. That kind of thing tends to scar you psychologically. My father also has a past history of physical abuse towards me- read my LW story for more details, the MMC's past mirrors my own. For obvious reasons, I do not intend to continue either attitude towards my own kids, should I ever have them. I already don't push them on my sister's kids.

My siblings, cousins, and I do not find each other mutually attractive. Same for my former in-laws. We're all adults, but we're not all equally open-minded and I don't want to harm the other relationships they have with which they are more comfortable. I am very conscious of the damage the wrong sorts of sexual attraction can cause. My stories reflect this. Yes, I am okay with admitting I'm an acclaimed erotic writer, but that doesn't mean I'm a bad guy. I do not want the people I love to end up in therapy because of me. I try to maintain a positive adult attitude towards my character, and a realistic one.

So, no, I will not be raising an incestuous family. If you're disappointed, well, that's not my problem. Enough said. Ugh.

 

[Voboy]

I’m pretty open to experiences (though less so than when I was at college), but there are limits.

Em

...wuss.

 

[EmilyMiller]

You can't plan such things.

The point is that I’d never even think about it.

Em

 

[StillStunned]

...wuss.

I suspect if it was *demon* worshippers Em would be more amenable.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

You can't plan such things. Or more accurately, you shouldn't. Good sex is properly consensual and enjoyable for all parties involved. Incest isn't always like that IRL- or in fiction, actually. Neither are other kinds of sex always like that.

I myself am not attracted to my parents or anyone above a certain age- that precludes a lot of interest in incest on my part. Nor do I ever plan to write about inter-generational incest. Or incest involving legally underage parties.

Why? Because it's illegal. And wrong. I have rightfully accused my mother of a reverse Oedipal complex towards me at times- she has a history of hyping me with women and putting other people down behind their backs- this includes women I've dated and my ex wife. That kind of thing tends to scar you psychologically. My father also has a past history of physical abuse towards me- read my LW story for more details, the MMC's past mirrors my own. For obvious reasons, I do not intend to continue either attitude towards my own kids, should I ever have them. I already don't push them on my sister's kids.

My siblings, cousins, and I do not find each other mutually attractive. Same for my former in-laws. We're all adults, but we're not all equally open-minded and I don't want to harm the other relationships they have with which they are more comfortable. I am very conscious of the damage the wrong sorts of sexual attraction can cause. My stories reflect this. Yes, I am okay with admitting I'm an acclaimed erotic writer, but that doesn't mean I'm a bad guy. I do not want the people I love to end up in therapy because of me. I try to maintain a positive adult attitude towards my character, and a realistic one.

So, no, I will not be raising an incestuous family. If you're disappointed, well, that's not my problem. Enough said. Ugh.

You certainly CAN plan it, although you are correct that you absolutely shouldn't.

Australians are crazy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_clan_incest_case

 

[EmilyMiller]

...wuss.

I know. I had my cumslut membership revoked. I miss the coupons.

Em

 

[MillieDynamite]

I wrote an incest story for here only to prove to myself I could write one that didn't condemn the father as a bastard. I doubt I'll write anymore.

You can't plan such things. Or more accurately, you shouldn't. Good sex is properly consensual and enjoyable for all parties involved. Incest isn't always like that IRL- or in fiction, actually. Neither are other kinds of sex always like that.

I myself am not attracted to my parents or anyone above a certain age- that precludes a lot of interest in incest on my part. Nor do I ever plan to write about inter-generational incest. Or incest involving legally underage parties.

Why? Because it's illegal. And wrong. I have rightfully accused my mother of a reverse Oedipal complex towards me at times- she has a history of hyping me with women and putting other people down behind their backs- this includes women I've dated and my ex wife. That kind of thing tends to scar you psychologically. My father also has a past history of physical abuse towards me- read my LW story for more details, the MMC's past mirrors my own. For obvious reasons, I do not intend to continue either attitude towards my own kids, should I ever have them. I already don't push them on my sister's kids.

My siblings, cousins, and I do not find each other mutually attractive. Same for my former in-laws. We're all adults, but we're not all equally open-minded and I don't want to harm the other relationships they have with which they are more comfortable. I am very conscious of the damage the wrong sorts of sexual attraction can cause. My stories reflect this. Yes, I am okay with admitting I'm an acclaimed erotic writer, but that doesn't mean I'm a bad guy. I do not want the people I love to end up in therapy because of me. I try to maintain a positive adult attitude towards my character, and a realistic one.

So, no, I will not be raising an incestuous family. If you're disappointed, well, that's not my problem. Enough said. Ugh.

 

[AchtungNight]

You certainly CAN plan it, although you are correct that you absolutely shouldn't.

Australians are crazy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_clan_incest_case

And so are Southern USA rednecks and others across the world known for such things. It's not limited by nationality.

The point is that I’d never even think about it.

Em

Not even to remind yourself why you shouldn't do it? That's what I was doing with my post.

Yeah, such things should be obvious to the world. And we all know they aren't always. It's a pain. One important to recognize. And combat at times. Wish our commenters would recognize that.

I wrote an incest story for here only to prove to myself I could write one that didn't condemn the father as a bastard. I doubt I'll write anymore.

Good for you. I'm not sure I could do that and honestly have no interest in trying. Sibling or cousin is my incest limit. I have read a few other stories where inter-generational incest is enjoyed by the characters, but it's not my kink. I re-imagine it as roleplaying between characters of the same generation, but still have to remind myself sometimes the characters are comfortably attracted to their relationship and I'm not.

My most disturbing feedback? I was once asked to write a story where a celebrity female cop was kidnapped and subjected to nonconsensual bdsm, then left without rescue. I said "no way". Thank goodness the requestor stopped emailing me after I declined. [shudder]

 

[EmilyMiller]

I wrote an incest story for here only to prove to myself I could write one that didn't condemn the father as a bastard. I doubt I'll write anymore.

I have an incest story idea. But it’s far from traditional incest and wouldn’t have any of the power dynamic stuff. It also wouldn’t be intergenerational. We’ll see if I can make it work. I had in mind a kinda latter-day Grapes of Wrath lesbian sibcest vibe. Might not come to anything.

Em

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'd read it if the grapes ripen at some point.

I have an incest story idea. But it’s far from traditional incest and wouldn’t have any of the power dynamic stuff. It also wouldn’t be intergenerational. We’ll see if I can make it work. I had in mind a kinda latter-day Grapes of Wrath lesbian sibcest vibe. Might not come to anything.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

I'd read it if the grapes ripen at some point.

I’ve written an intro. Gonna let it sit for a bit.

Em

 

[AchtungNight]

I have an incest story idea. But it’s far from traditional incest and wouldn’t have any of the power dynamic stuff. It also wouldn’t be intergenerational. We’ll see if I can make it work. I had in mind a kinda latter-day Grapes of Wrath lesbian sibcest vibe. Might not come to anything.

Em

No problem with that here. I'd read it too.

Bravo for not pushing power dynamics. I dislike that kink and only push it with villains or righteously punished offenders in my stories. Or a mild consensual kink like some of my characters display. I tend to skip over it or bail when other writers push it too hard.

 

[Voboy]

I wrote an incest story for here only to prove to myself I could write one that didn't condemn the father as a bastard. I doubt I'll write anymore.

I did one years ago, partly on a dare, partly just to see if I could. It didn't do much for me, though it's an okay story. I did write another one for which incest is just the secondary kink (even though it'd be trump if I ever submitted it). Because it's only tangentially incestuous, I think that one is a far better story, though it's not precisely Lit-appropos.

 

[Britva415]

Ok, the more I read the exchange and hear everyone's condemnation of it, the more I imagine myself in the position of the guy, perhaps having a friendly exchange misinterpreted as assholery. I'm not saying he's not an asshole; I don't know if he is or not! But try looking at it through this lens:

After he complemented the picture, Freya said something self-deprecating about how it was photoshopped. Perhaps in response to that self-deprecation, he said beauty fades but it's the person inside who counts. Was that a neg? Or more like, "I hear you there but even if you have some negative feelings about your appearance, it's the person inside who counts."

Then Freya asked if he'd read her stories and he said not yet but maybe he would. Couldn't that be just being honest? "No I haven't yet but now that we've said a few words I'm interested and maybe I will." Perhaps he's reading one now and will get back with a comment soon, you never know!

I mean, maybe it is all lies and manipulation. But couldn't it just be a simple exchange where a guy liked freya's profile pic, complimented it, said to focus on inner beauty when he interpreted her reply as self-deprecating about her appearance, and then answered honestly that he hadn't read her stories but was considering it?

I don't know. Maybe I'm just too trusting. Being a male, I haven't been hit on or had any guys try to manipulate me. But I've been a well-meaning guy who has said things awkwardly before.

No way, man. Guys are supposed to know how all this is going to sound and avoid sounding like that.

Because we’re supposed to be mind readers.

 

[MillieDynamite]

As @theWollstonecraftWoman would say, Oy vey, such a discussion. She'd say it herself, but it's after sunset so it's Sabbath. But wait, is it in Denver, it isn't six yet, and I think that's officially Sabbath. But she hasn't said it yet so she mustn't be here.

No way, man. Guys are supposed to know how all this is going to sound and avoid sounding like that.

Because we’re supposed to be mind readers.