Plot keeps shifting in time.

[Jada59]

I just put a book in the give away pile because the plot drove me nuts! I didn't choose the book. It dates back to when my daughter was in school and it was recommended for a student of her age. I can only imagine the torment she would have had, reading it!

It starts out with the main character (male) in some way harming a man. He either did or did not do something. I guess I'll never know as there is no way I can read any more of it.

Each chapter zings to a different part of his life.

Next chapter, his daughter is 12.

Next chapter, he is 22. Has to be a past time because I doubt that he fathered a child at age 10.

There is a train wreck and he saves a pregnant girl who reminds him of the man at the start of the book.

He mentions that his wife died. Does not say how or when, but that's why he had to raise his daughter alone.

The chapters zing from childhood (various ages), to adulthood, to today, to when he met his wife, then back to today...

Each chapter is very short and disjointed from the chapter on either side of it.

It was enough to make my head spin! I slugged on through several chapters and then decided to call it quits. The author kept bringing in new characters. It was too much work for me to try to remember who all these people were, and many seemed to have no significance to the story.

Since I was a quitter, maybe I missed out on a great story. I guess I will never know.

So my question is: Why did the author do this?

I have read other books that were written similarly, but none to such a confusing extent. I do understand flashbacks or something recalling a prior incident. But this went far beyond that.

I just don't get it!

 

[Salacious_Scribe]

I;ve never read a book with that many flashbacks or ones that lasted more than a few paragraphs. But several TV shows I watched played scenes backwrds, ER did one when Kovac was in an car accident with a med student he was banging.

Hate that shit. I even write my stories linerally. I can't write the end then the begining. Time moves one way, except in sci fi.

 

[SamScribble]

I recall reading a book umpteen years ago now that started at both ends and worked its way to the centre. It was a bit confusing at first; but once you just 'went with the flow' it sort of worked.

 

[Salacious_Scribe]

I recall reading a book umpteen years ago now that started at both ends and worked its way to the centre. It was a bit confusing at first; but once you just 'went with the flow' it sort of worked.

I couldn't even read the Chronicles of Narnia in the 1-7 order. I had to read them in in chrono order.

 

[Jada59]

I couldn't even read the Chronicles of Narnia in the 1-7 order. I had to read them in in chrono order.

Me too!

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Yeah, try watching the Cloud Atlas. Talk about a confusing movie. Watched it for about ten minutes, shook my head, and press stop.

 

[lovecraft68]

I;ve never read a book with that many flashbacks or ones that lasted more than a few paragraphs. But several TV shows I watched played scenes backwrds, ER did one when Kovac was in an car accident with a med student he was banging.

Hate that shit. I even write my stories linerally. I can't write the end then the begining. Time moves one way, except in sci fi.

I think it works better with TV, the visuals help more with the 'when'

I use flashbacks in a couple of my books, but in the style of the previous chapter ends with something that tells you we're going backwards, and I'll do the "Chicago, 15 years ago" or the year in the heading of the next chapter.

 

[WoodmanStark]

I couldn't even read the Chronicles of Narnia in the 1-7 order. I had to read them in in chrono order.

So, The Horse and His Boy third?

 

[Salacious_Scribe]

So, The Horse and His Boy third?

Magicians Nephew
Lion Wittch and Wardrobe
Horse and His boy
Prince Caspian
Voyage of the Dawn Treader (My favoirite book and movie of the series)
Ths Silver Chair
The Last Battle (Hated it.)

 

[MelissaBaby]

My series My Fall and Rise starts in the middle of the story, then alternates chapters that lead up to, and follow, that midpoint. The two narrative lines merge together in the final chapter.

It seems to have worked out fine, I've had no complaints that people couldn't follow it.

 

[SimonDoom]

Magicians Nephew
Lion Wittch and Wardrobe
Horse and His boy
Prince Caspian
Voyage of the Dawn Treader (My favoirite book and movie of the series)
Ths Silver Chair
The Last Battle (Hated it.)

It's probably a terribly unpopular opinion, but I never cared for the Narnia books. It may just be me, but I always felt Lewis didn't know how to really get into his characters. They all seemed flat to me. Like an old man writing about kids who knew nothing about kids (which, from what I know of his life, is somewhat true -- maybe I'm wrong). The stories themselves were often somewhat inadequte, too.

Agree that Dawn Treader was the most enjoyable, probably followed by Prince Caspian. Last Battle was just depressing.

 

[SimonDoom]

Re OP's question: The story you describe doesn't sound at all familiar. Usually an author will tell a story nonchronologically when telling it chronologically would give away something exciting or crucial too early. Or the whole point of the story is to present a situation in the present day that is a mystery, and telling the story nonchronologically is a kind of detective story.

The movie Memento was like that, and I think it worked really well. It's about a man with severe short term memory loss who, every 15 minutes, forgets what just happened. The movie goes backward and forward until it ends at a place that the audience knows what's going on.

 

[Salacious_Scribe]

Re OP's question: The story you describe doesn't sound at all familiar. Usually an author will tell a story nonchronologically when telling it chronologically would give away something exciting or crucial too early. Or the whole point of the story is to present a situation in the present day that is a mystery, and telling the story nonchronologically is a kind of detective story.

The movie Memento was like that, and I think it worked really well. It's about a man with severe short term memory loss who, every 15 minutes, forgets what just happened. The movie goes backward and forward until it ends at a place that the audience knows what's going on.

I am binge watching Fear the Walking Dead and season 4 sucks. It's all over the place. Starts with a two year time jump then forward then back then between. I hve no idea what the fick is going on. Makes no sense.

 

[PennameWombat]

I am binge watching Fear the Walking Dead and season 4 sucks. It's all over the place. Starts with a two year time jump then forward then back then between. I hve no idea what the fick is going on. Makes no sense.

I'd gotten to the point where I preferred Fear the Walking Dead to TWD. Then, yeah, season 4. I liked John and June (aka, Naomi), good additions as characters. But the time jumps and the whole "what's your story" stuff drove me nuts.

 

[Jada59]

It's probably a terribly unpopular opinion, but I never cared for the Narnia books. It may just be me, but I always felt Lewis didn't know how to really get into his characters. They all seemed flat to me. Like an old man writing about kids who knew nothing about kids (which, from what I know of his life, is somewhat true -- maybe I'm wrong). The stories themselves were often somewhat inadequte, too.

Agree that Dawn Treader was the most enjoyable, probably followed by Prince Caspian. Last Battle was just depressing.

I liked the Lion, Witch and Wardrobe one but not the others.

 

[PennameWombat]

It's probably a terribly unpopular opinion, but I never cared for the Narnia books. It may just be me, but I always felt Lewis didn't know how to really get into his characters. They all seemed flat to me. Like an old man writing about kids who knew nothing about kids (which, from what I know of his life, is somewhat true -- maybe I'm wrong). The stories themselves were often somewhat inadequte, too.

Agree that Dawn Treader was the most enjoyable, probably followed by Prince Caspian. Last Battle was just depressing.

Maybe an even less popular opinion...

I've never read the Narnia books, have never had the least desire to and at this point if I'm going to spend time with books they won't be christian allegorical apologetics. I was a huge fan of LotR as a late teen (and have re-read it occasionally since) but I wasn't even aware the Narnia books existed until after I'd read Tolkien and in the effort to learn more about the author encountered articles about his ongoing discussions with Lewis.

And at that point they struck me as way too derivative (of Tolkien) and way too christian... I'd been raised an observant Catholic and had only recently forced an 'escape' from that.

 

[Jada59]

Maybe an even less popular opinion...

I've never read the Narnia books, have never had the least desire to and at this point if I'm going to spend time with books they won't be christian allegorical apologetics. I was a huge fan of LotR as a late teen (and have re-read it occasionally since) but I wasn't even aware the Narnia books existed until after I'd read Tolkien and in the effort to learn more about the author encountered articles about his ongoing discussions with Lewis.

And at that point they struck me as way too derivative (of Tolkien) and way too christian... I'd been raised an observant Catholic and had only recently forced an 'escape' from that.

i read them when I was 8.

 

[PennameWombat]

i read them when I was 8.

My apologies if my posting seemed overly strident. The context of the Narnia books and being coincident with other things in my life meant they left a mark without even being read. But despite my upbringing I'd never heard of them pre-high school.

 

[Jada59]

My apologies if my posting seemed overly strident. The context of the Narnia books and being coincident with other things in my life meant they left a mark without even being read. But despite my upbringing I'd never heard of them pre-high school.

I see!

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I remember reading LWW when I was 7, and if I'd known the phrase 'deus ex machina' I'd have used it as I chucked it away in disgust. I did later enjoy the other books, though didn't re-read Last Battle much.

Can't really call Narnia derivative of Tolkien when LWW was published in 1950 (all by 1956) and LotR in 1954 - but both authors were close friends consciously producing a mythology for England.

Having recently read most of the Narnia books aloud, they really do roll off the tongue exceptionally well. They're probably the only books (MN, LWW, PC, VoDT) from that era that held up to being read to the new generation without too much apology and rearranging activities (yes, Susan and Lucy are kept from swordfighting, but Susan still kills with the bow and they're doing stuff, not mere names provided for filler.

I quite like time-travel myself, though it can go too far like some Doctor Who story arcs (Moffat era), and some authors use it to disguise an otherwise-weak plot. TV can do it well with a simple caption of the year onscreen (The Expanse), though some series get into unforeseen problems (David Boreanaz's total failure of an Oirish accent in Buffy...)

 

[ElectricBlue]

Maybe an even less popular opinion...

I've never read the Narnia books, have never had the least desire to and at this point if I'm going to spend time with books they won't be christian allegorical apologetics. I was a huge fan of LotR as a late teen (and have re-read it occasionally since) but I wasn't even aware the Narnia books existed until after I'd read Tolkien and in the effort to learn more about the author encountered articles about his ongoing discussions with Lewis.

And at that point they struck me as way too derivative (of Tolkien) and way too christian... I'd been raised an observant Catholic and had only recently forced an 'escape' from that.

The Narnia books were published between 1950 - 1956, LOTR was published 1954 - 1955 (although written earlier). Both authors were well aware of each other, but to say one is derivative of the other misses the point of both, I think.

Interestingly, I was brought up in an atheist household, but was introduced to the Narnia books very young - my parents read them to me, and I in turn read them to my children. The Christian allegory was irrelevant to me - that didn't register to me until I was in my teens - but I read the books frequently .

Susan was my favourite character, probably because she was the older sister and more interesting for a pre-pubescent boy.

Fantasy author Neil Gaiman's 2004 short story "The Problem of Susan" depicts its protagonist, Professor Hastings (who strongly resembles an adult version of Susan), dealing with the grief and trauma of her entire family's death in a train crash, as she is interviewed by a college literature student regarding her opinion on Susan's place in the Narnia books. Well worth the read:

https://archive.org/details/flightsextremevi0000unse

 

[PennameWombat]

<snip>

I quite like time-travel myself, though it can go too far like some Doctor Who story arcs (Moffat era), and some authors use it to disguise an otherwise-weak plot. TV can do it well with a simple caption of the year onscreen (The Expanse), though some series get into unforeseen problems (David Boreanaz's total failure of an Oirish accent in Buffy...)

Ok, I’ll stay completely away from Lewis and stick with the original point of this thread.

I think of time-travel as different from non-linear narratives, if the time-travel is explicit or a focused occurrence. An example would be Connie Willis’ “Doomsday Book.” A number of characters time-travel to 1348 and arrive in the middle of the Black Death (not intentionally, they missed their intended target year because Stuff Happened.) But the narrative is normal, events happen in modern days and in 1348 but it’s relatively straight-forward what’s happening when. The characters aren’t jumping back and forth.

On the other hand for non-linear narrative, as an example we have Iain M. Banks’ “Use of Weapons.” It essentially starts in the middle and alternating chapters move forward in time and backward in time from that point, getting us to the main character’s origin as well as his fate (mostly). The forward narrative chapters are numbered 1, 2... and the backward ones XII, XI... Once you get these hints it reads well so you kind of get two climaxes.

I know that “Memento“ did something like this but I found the book much more enjoyable. The movie just didn’t do it for me.

But something like what’s described in the original posting might be going too far for me as well.

Almost all of my stories are linear and I’ve never used time travel[1]. I’m still not sure I succeeded with my Nude Day 2019 entry. I wrote it linearly (Day 1, Day 2, Day 3, Day 4, <forward time jump>, Day 5, <forward time jump>, day 6. But before I posted I edited it to put Day 3 as the opening section of the story, followed that with Day 1 and linear from there. So it was 3, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6. It’s never quite made ‘H’ but stayed close to that. No one commented on the structure. They did comment on the Sunday post-services orgy in the church on day 4

[1] Unless you count hyper-sleep during slower-than-light-speed interstellar travel to be ‘time travel,’ to get characters who are over two centuries ‘old’ but appear and act as being thirties to sixties. I also used VR to ‘time-travel’ characters for a dinosaur hunting safari ‘game.‘ But it was explicit they were using VR.

 

[SimonDoom]

Almost all of my stories are linear and I’ve never used time travel[1]. I’m still not sure I succeeded with my Nude Day 2019 entry. I wrote it linearly (Day 1, Day 2, Day 3, Day 4, <forward time jump>, Day 5, <forward time jump>, day 6. But before I posted I edited it to put Day 3 as the opening section of the story, followed that with Day 1 and linear from there. So it was 3, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6. It’s never quite made ‘H’ but stayed close to that. No one commented on the structure. They did comment on the Sunday post-services orgy in the church on day 4

Once in a while I use flashbacks, but not too many. In one short story about an erotic encounter, I began the story in the present, then a little way in the male POV character had two flashbacks that helped establish character AND establish a relationship that would make sense of the strange events in the rest of the story.

I don't think the story would have worked so well in a purely linear fashion. I wanted the reader to get to know both characters and the setting in present time first. I think it's often important to situate the reader in the present, amid the start of the main action, than starting with a trek through the past.

The key for me is how to handle the transition to and from the flashback. I tend to write in a way that makes the narrative easy on the reader. I don't have enough confidence in my narrative skills to want to challenge the reader too much. The story Jada59 describes sounds much more challenging.

 

[sweetandeasy]

I'd throw out Slaughterhouse-Five as an example of a book that does this well and has a reason to do it, and even telegraphs the structure with the first line of the book ("Billy Pilgrim as come unstuck in time.") The time travel thing helps with a rationale, but it's still just a device to present a narrative that's intended to be disorienting.

I'd ask myself (if I were using the device) if the narrative becomes *more* meaningful when it's fractured like that, if being forced to think about the events out of order gives me some kind of insight the reader couldn't have had otherwise. And I'd probably avoid telling it out of order just to reveal some surprise. As a reader I feel a little cheated, especially with a first person narrative, if there's a big secret that gets revealed later in the story that my narrator knew from the beginning and didn't share. (Untrustworthy narrators aside...)

 

[KeithD]

I don't do many full-blown flashbacks, but I do often start a section with the "bang" of an encounter, give a paragraph or two then of how the characters got into that activity, and then chug ahead chronologically from there.