Moderator Preclearance for 'Genesis of Orcs'

[Jmanchu]

ALSO, there is an "editor forum" dedicated to helping writers find editors and beta readers who will give direct feedback on your story or editors who can help you figure out the problems you've asked here and make sure your story is going to pass, both in terms of quality and in terms of making sure it passes content guideline. Dunno if posting the story in a direct link is the right place here. Probably it's fine, I think, but you might get better help in the long run from the editor forum. Just ask for an editor or beta reader to give feedback and help you with making your story ready for publishing if it's needed, but be clear on what you're looking for from any editor or beta reader in your thread there, just like you are here. You'd probably get better help to figure all that stuff out there than here, especially since you already have a script ready.

Just keep in mind, responses MAY be slow in that forum. I posted two requests for two stories of my own, and I've gotten one DM so far for one, and the other's been hanging dry with no responses for almost a week now, sadly.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Here's a suggestion: instead of something like "Luk! Diz yumie elf'z hert," keep it simple. "Look! Diz yummy elf's hurt!" Only one word is changed, and people can still get the gobbo voice in their head when they read it. Even with just the way they make sentences might be enough to have this effect. "Bad gurl! Yu'z myn," but instead "Bad girl! You's mean," See what I mean?

Case in point: I took "yumie" to be a version of "humie", which is what the orcs of Warhammer 40K call humans. Which then left me wondering what they meant by "human elf" - was she a half-elf then?

I think your "yummy" is more likely correct. But it's an example of how that kind of thing can derail readers into trying to figure out what the author meant, which is generally not where one wants one's readers to be.

 

[Jmanchu]

Case in point: I took "yumie" to be a version of "humie", which is what the orcs of Warhammer 40K call humans. Which then left me wondering what they meant by "human elf" - was she a half-elf then?

I think your "yummy" is more likely correct. But it's an example of how that kind of thing can derail readers into trying to figure out what the author meant, which is generally not where one wants one's readers to be.

Speaking of warhammer. I've been wanting to try out Warhammer 40k the tabletop. Shit looks fun to play. Looks like tabletop Warcraft mixed with Starcraft, and I loved both games growing up.

 

[ronde]

In the real world, it's rape. In the Literotica world, the question is whether the victim enjoys it or not. Debating whether it's "rape" is irrelevant to the Literotica conversation.

I think "rape" could fit into non-consent if there's at least a hint at the start of the story that the "victim" secretly has the desire to be raped. That's not a common fetish, but it does exist among a few, both men and women. To write a story about actual rape and then in the last paragraph have the victim declare that it was something he or she had always wanted and that it was the most fantastic experience he or she ever had won't cut it. That ending seems more like, "Oh, shit, now I have to write something that makes it OK".

 

[Bramblethorn]

Speaking of warhammer. I've been wanting to try out Warhammer 40k the tabletop. Shit looks fun to play. Looks like tabletop Warcraft mixed with Starcraft, and I loved both games growing up.

That's a pretty good description, and the similarity isn't entirely accidental.

Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K have been around since the mid-80s, and when Blizzard was making the original Warcraft computer game it seems some of the team were hoping to get a deal with Games Workshop (owners of Warhammer) to license it as an official Warhammer Fantasy computer game. That didn't work out, but they were clearly strongly influenced by Warhammer Fantasy in the early days.

(Some of the diehard Warhammer fans would use language like "ripped off", but it's not like Games Workshop actually invented the concept of a fantasy world with elves, humans, orcs, dwarves, undead, goblins, and the occasional dragon. And the later Warcraft games added a lot of their own stuff.)

The 40K setting and background is interesting, and I have a couple of armies in various stages of paint and assembly, but I never ended up playing it much. Their business model depends on selling new stuff, which means releasing new editions every so often, and I just didn't have time to keep up with that.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Hi lovely Literotica community. I was directed here by the content guidelines.

For the last eighteen months I've been writing a fantasy-world themed erotic horror story. I'm ready to post my first chapter but unsure if it violates the content guidelines. In particular...

> Ravishment/non-consent fantasies in which the “victim” receives no thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and/or permanently physically harmed/abused/maimed/killed.

The protagonist certainly doesn't enjoy the first chapter. She also gets maimed in my story. The latter's not a central feature nor meant to glorify the act.

I'm unsure if it crosses the line this policy's aiming for. Regardless, I'd prefer to avoid the rudeness and headache if posting's a no-go.

I'd really like to get writing advice from the Literotica community (and hopefully recruit some volunteer editors for my next chapter). I've never shown my writing to anyone and I'm really keen to hear the feedback.

That said, if my story's too toxic for this site I certainly don't want to make folks feel uncomfortable.

This form doesn't permit textual attachments so here's my first chapter...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CZv91tL4gfDfxOJAaTJppbj96vdf2hFG/view

TL;DR. For this site's content moderators:

1. Is this story permissible?
2. If so, should I keep the warning header?
3. If not, do folks know of another writing community to suggest?

Thanks! -Goblin Minstrel

The problem as I see it is your plan to submit only part of the story for publication to start. By doing so, you are withholding the full context of the stated actions relative to the work as a whole. Context carries more weight than content. Give Laurel a chance to gauge the story as a whole or you will stand little chance of not being rejected.

I haven't read your story but if it is Sci-Fi, you might also have some wiggle room if the characters involved are non-human. How much will depend upon factors such as whether or not any humans are aroused by the actions. The clear absence of human arousal and titillation will be key to acceptance if it does come.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I wrote a rape scene that didn't pass originally but then passed after modification. It was rejected not because of the rape but because the victim killed the rapist (her husband) during the act, qualifying it as snuff.

I modified the story so that the victim kills her husband in the scene following the rape. Because the death was made separate from the rape, the scene no longer qualified as 'snuff'.

My rape scene passed because it was clearly not meant to be enjoyed by the reader as an erotic moment. I guess.

Snuff, on the other hand, is a hard no.

My point, I suppose, is that rape may be allowed in story depending on how you treat it. If there's any indication that the writer intends to sexually arouse the reader with the rape, it will be rejected (as it should be).

Yes, the context of the content is what matters.

 

[Zenith77]

Not really accurate. Some people who have rape fantasies have experienced sexual trauma. Others have not. There doesn't seem to be a correlation.

Anyway, I didn't open the story but I can already tell from the thread what the chapter contains. If you want it published on Lit, you could probably make this horrific event part of the character's backstory as opposed to centerpiece. Because it's just snuff-as-text in Laurel's eyes otherwise.

Having read some of it I don't much care to be associated with it, so for the avoidance of doubt this is not my story.

 

[Jmanchu]

That's a pretty good description, and the similarity isn't entirely accidental.

Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K have been around since the mid-80s, and when Blizzard was making the original Warcraft computer game it seems some of the team were hoping to get a deal with Games Workshop (owners of Warhammer) to license it as an official Warhammer Fantasy computer game. That didn't work out, but they were clearly strongly influenced by Warhammer Fantasy in the early days.

(Some of the diehard Warhammer fans would use language like "ripped off", but it's not like Games Workshop actually invented the concept of a fantasy world with elves, humans, orcs, dwarves, undead, goblins, and the occasional dragon. And the later Warcraft games added a lot of their own stuff.)

The 40K setting and background is interesting, and I have a couple of armies in various stages of paint and assembly, but I never ended up playing it much. Their business model depends on selling new stuff, which means releasing new editions every so often, and I just didn't have time to keep up with that.

I figured as much. There are just so many similarities in the design style between the way the characters look in both Blizzard's games and the Warhammer games that it couldn't be coincidence. I've read the backstory of some of the races for warhammer and I see some inspirations there as well. Different, of course, but similar, like Starcraft Terrans and the humans of Warhammer 40k whose planet of origin is Terra(Terra, Terran). Also, space marines being a thing in both games, which I've seen the crazy lore that Warhammer 40k has for their space marines that make me think like a mix of the Halo Spartans and the Doom guy from Doom that fights demons from hell, and the Warhammer tyrranids and Zergs(both have giant badass monsters called ultralisks as part of their units), etc.

I've also seen the level of detail people put into painting their figurines, and I could see myself getting into that kind of hobby. That shit looks fun.

 

[goblin_minstrel]

> I'm going to make a wild assumption and say you're a fan of Goblin Slayer.

Bingo!

I'm beginning to think that ArchiveOfOurOwn may be a good home for this story. It has remarkably extensive tagging to make it discoverable for this niche awhile warning off folks who'll find it offensive.

What I'm aiming for is an immersive story about how it'd feel to become a goblin's birthing vessel (tropes: 1, 2). It seems decently common in manga (for example Princess Knight Taming) but I wanted to write a story about how it'd feel to be the victim on the other end.

My hope's that the fantasy theme provides cognitive distance. I know it's too violent for broad appeal... or maybe any. It also lacks the no-means-yes turnabout that people desire to make domination fantasies palatable.

Maybe this story's a dud. If so then at least I've had fun writing it.

> Stuff like "Tymbar! Naw yu'l krawl lyk a pygie,"...
> is hard to read and feels like I'm reading an entirely different language. You can still get gobbos or any other race or being to have the effect of speaking crudely without going so overboard.

Thanks Jmanchu and Bramblethorn! These are useful data points. I previously did as you suggest (minimal distortions), then put exorbitant thought into complicating it with a consistent set of rules.

Maybe that was a mistake. Doing so I hypothesized that slow, phonetic readers like me could fluently read it whereas speed readers would struggle. To test I sent sample dialog to a friend. She reported it as crystal clear. I've been pretty starved for feedback...

Dost thee wot such uneath language? Later chapters have amateurish attempts at Middle English. Probably another bad idea but it's been fun to learn.

> And I'd say get more into the sexual psychology of the characters.

That's unfortunate. The story's trying to focus on Eve's psychology so in your case I was apparently unsuccessful.

 

[tenyari]

One thing I would be cautious of... "Orc" in modern fantasy is a "proxy" for Indigenous people in the same way that "Drow" is a proxy for Black people.

Orcs are usually depicted with a culture that mimics the worst racist stereotypes of Indigenous people - right down the false narrative that "half-breeds" are the result of Orcs sexually assaulting women (this is something racist tropes claim against both Black and Indigenous men which is almost 105% false if you look at DNA).

Likewise, Drow are so bad their origin story is actually taken from "The Curse of Ham" - which was a thing made up by a Catholic monk to claim Africans were turned from being "proper white people" into Black Africans because their ancestor sinned and rejected God. That was so toxic the Catholic church declared it a heresy the moment it was published and had it destroyed... It was so racist even the Catholic Church in the 1500s said "F no". but somehow it reached the ears of people in the Slave Trade and got sold to non-Catholic Churches in the USA - where it was taught so as to keep people from questioning slavery. It was still being taught by a certain faith in Utah up until 1978 - most everyone else having rejected it decades earlier.

Orcs are usually depicted as wild savages that attack and pillage White... er... Elf and Human settlements, scalp people, and drag off the women. Producing mix-breeds like me.


I'd think about how you want to write your Orcs... in relation to how such narratives get perceived in today's world.

It might be "fantasy" - but that's long been just a place to conceal things people won't say in more "polite company"...

(There's a reason that a new company that tried to bring back 'TSR' - the original publisher of D&D before they went under and D&D ended up being owned by Hasbro - and publish some Dungeons and Dragons stuff based on a theme of a 'White controlled world' setting without having a license was partly started by a member of the Gygax family... when you can note that the prime reason the tropes for modern Orcs and Drow exist is because of how Gary Gygax wrote them in his D&D books back in the 1970s... before D&D those words meant very different things. Though Tolkiens Orcs still have some nasty connotations - they were different, and might almost be a statement against Facism as they were actually Elves who's bodies became twisted when they embraced hate - rather than a different species of 'sub people' like Gygax made them.)

There's a reason Hasbro keeps having to apologize when they reprint old books, and has to keep rewriting stuff. The "Orc" of modern fantasy games and video games became so radically different from the Tolkien Orc as a result of being intentionally injected with anti-Indigenous racist tropes while being crafted over at TSR in the 70s and 80s.


If you're writing about "Orcs sexually assaulting women" you're stepping on a land mine that's intentionally deeply wrapped up in real world racist narratives.

.

 

[Jmanchu]

One thing I would be cautious of... "Orc" in modern fantasy is a "proxy" for Indigenous people in the same way that "Drow" is a proxy for Black people.

Orcs are usually depicted with a culture that mimics the worst racist stereotypes of Indigenous people - right down the false narrative that "half-breeds" are the result of Orcs sexually assaulting women (this is something racist tropes claim against both Black and Indigenous men which is almost 105% false if you look at DNA).

Likewise, Drow are so bad their origin story is actually taken from "The Curse of Ham" - which was a thing made up by a Catholic monk to claim Africans were turned from being "proper white people" into Black Africans because their ancestor sinned and rejected God. That was so toxic the Catholic church declared it a heresy the moment it was published and had it destroyed... It was so racist even the Catholic Church in the 1500s said "F no". but somehow it reached the ears of people in the Slave Trade and got sold to non-Catholic Churches in the USA - where it was taught so as to keep people from questioning slavery. It was still being taught by a certain faith in Utah up until 1978 - most everyone else having rejected it decades earlier.

Orcs are usually depicted as wild savages that attack and pillage White... er... Elf and Human settlements, scalp people, and drag off the women. Producing mix-breeds like me.


I'd think about how you want to write your Orcs... in relation to how such narratives get perceived in today's world.

It might be "fantasy" - but that's long been just a place to conceal things people won't say in more "polite company"...

(There's a reason that a new company that tried to bring back 'TSR' - the original publisher of D&D before they went under and D&D ended up being owned by Hasbro - and publish some Dungeons and Dragons stuff based on a theme of a 'White controlled world' setting without having a license was partly started by a member of the Gygax family... when you can note that the prime reason the tropes for modern Orcs and Drow exist is because of how Gary Gygax wrote them in his D&D books back in the 1970s... before D&D those words meant very different things. Though Tolkiens Orcs still have some nasty connotations - they were different, and might almost be a statement against Facism as they were actually Elves who's bodies became twisted when they embraced hate - rather than a different species of 'sub people' like Gygax made them.)



If you're writing about "Orcs sexually assaulting women" you're stepping on a land mine that's intentionally deeply wrapped up in real world racist narratives.

.

Those are some interesting points, and I want to share my own thoughts on the matter as well.

First, when it comes to orcs, most of the time people use orcs in DnD just as an easy-to-use fantasy race that's warlike and bad either as minions to a big bad, Sauron-type villain, or just an identifiable bad guy group to beat up rather than make an unintentional parallel to indigenous cultures or warring folk in reality. Most don't try to conflate the orcs with real cultures or consider it more than just fantasy green skin warriors that are wild and strong in nature and ready to pillage and commit war. Are there people who might be ignorant enough to try to create paralells to orcish bad guys and real life cultures? Maybe. But that's not how they were made for, even in the Gygax DnD version.

I can see the potential comparisons for modern orcs and the way some might use inspiration from warrior cultures(including indigenous and nomadic warrior cultures and the old viking warrior culture of pillaging, warring, and raping). Some people might use orcs as purely fantasy race with a purely fantasy background in mind, like Gygax originally did when he made them based off Tolkien's creation of orcs, and some might draw inspiration from real life cultures, that can be true. People who do base orcs with real life inspiration may do it with consideration to the said cultures(Like the Warcraft III orcs who get in touch with their spiritual roots and the old culture they lost before the events of the first two games and they join to help lead the fight for good against the big bad demons) or done poorly with hilariously bad stereotypes, is a subject for debate since there can be examples of each of the above. I don't think the Drow, however draw any parallels to Africans or dark skinned people in general from real life. That's my opinion.

When it comes to Drows, though... Well, I've heard about that criticism you pointed out, but I don't know where that theory came from. Look up the dökkálfar (dark elves),of Norse mythology, who are said to live underground realms(Like the Underdark for the Drow). Not much is known about their mythologies aside from them being the dark counterpart to the ljósalfar(light elves). It's a dualistic concept of light and darkness. some are described with skin black as pitch, others are described to have very pale skin so it's not skin color that defines them. Some theories believe that Norse folk saw them to be evil and different in nature to the light elves, that they bring misfortune and plagues to humans. Others believe that it was more complicated and they were more mysterious. Nobody knows for sure, but that's far likelier where Gary Gygax got his primary inspiration for the Drow, not the Judeo-Christian story of the curse of Ham.

Also, in terms of skin color, while Drow are depicted a lot with night-black skin(not dark brown or any human skin color, but pure obsidian), many are depicted with dark purple or blue skin, or gray, or pale white. I don't think Drows have inspiration from Africans.

 

[tenyari]

Those are some interesting points, and I want to share my own thoughts on the matter as well.

But that's not how they were made for, even in the Gygax DnD version.

I can see the potential comparisons for modern orcs and the way some might use inspiration from warrior cultures(including indigenous and nomadic warrior cultures and the old viking warrior culture of pillaging, warring, and raping). Some people might use orcs as purely fantasy race with a purely fantasy background in mind, like Gygax originally did when he made them based off Tolkien's creation of orcs, and some might draw inspiration from real life cultures, that can be true.

When it comes to Drows, though... Well, I've heard about that criticism you pointed out, but I don't know where that theory came from. Look up the dökkálfar (dark elves),of Norse mythology,

People love making up that excuse. But just because a word existed before Gygax used it doesn't make it the same thing. Especially when in much of the source material in Gygax's stuff it was given the Curse of Ham origin. Something that even persists in some modern copiers like the Skyrim game.

The word Drow is rooted in a Scottish word for a troll.

But that's not even the point. The point is that in D&D - they were originally given the origin that their skin was black because they had forsaken the Elven god. The Curse of Ham. Basic Klan ideology 101 - brought to the modern era through games, into fantasy fiction.

.

As for Orcs - you can pretend all you want. But you only have to look at the descriptions of them, and then look at descriptions of Indigenous people that were common up until maybe 3 decades ago - and it's a cut and paste job.

Brutish savages that attack and kill people in the wilds, raid settlements and towns, rape women, and produce a race of half-breed mongrels - up until that the 1980s that was the "proper" description for one side of my own heritage. And it's also how they're described in D&D. Go look up the Half-Orc - not in current material but how it was described in the 1970s and more or less up until a decade ago (even after Hasbro took over - nobody was checking this material).

It's also NOT how Tolkien made them.

Gygax added his own personal dose of KKK when he made his game, and modern fantasy has copied it repeatedly.

If you've never been a victim of or perpetrator if anti-indigenous bias maybe you'd not be aware of it. Playing "Cowboys and Indians" was popular with the boys when I was a child in the 70s, but stopped being OK by my teen years - not too long after they stopped openly sterilizing 'Indian' women (though my Indigenous ancestry comes from a Latin American country where that practice only ended within the last decade making me grateful to not have grown up there...).

The Description of the Orc in D&D stands apart from how it was described in Tolkien and even how it was described in Warcraft. Some versions even had them in 'tribal outfits' though the original 1970s Gygax books had them as pig-men...

Warcraft is where that narrative starts to change. But not at first. Only by the time they started working on their third game and somebody must have realized they'd taken their 'Orc' not from Tolkien but from Gygax and needed to create a new, third kind of 'Orc'.

I brought this up in this topic only because the statements in the first post strongly imply a 'rape by orcs' storyline... as in; a Gygax Orc. Not a Tolkien Orc nor a Warcraft Orc. And there's a nasty legacy there. The author in question, if the implication is right (I refuse to read that story snippet given my ancestry and what I've noted here) then that author would have intentionally chosen that particular Gygax-era version of Orc. The "Savage Indian" version.

 

[Jmanchu]

People love making up that excuse. But just because a word existed before Gygax used it doesn't make it the same thing. Especially when in much of the source material in Gygax's stuff it was given the Curse of Ham origin. Something that even persists in some modern copiers like the Skyrim game.

The word Drow is rooted in a Scottish word for a troll.

But that's not even the point. The point is that in D&D - they were originally given the origin that their skin was black because they had forsaken the Elven god. The Curse of Ham. Basic Klan ideology 101 - brought to the modern era through games, into fantasy fiction.

.

As for Orcs - you can pretend all you want. But you only have to look at the descriptions of them, and then look at descriptions of Indigenous people that were common up until maybe 3 decades ago - and it's a cut and paste job.

Brutish savages that attack and kill people in the wilds, raid settlements and towns, rape women, and produce a race of half-breed mongrels - up until that the 1980s that was the "proper" description for one side of my own heritage. And it's also how they're described in D&D. Go look up the Half-Orc - not in current material but how it was described in the 1970s and more or less up until a decade ago (even after Hasbro took over - nobody was checking this material).

It's also NOT how Tolkien made them.

Gygax added his own personal dose of KKK when he made his game, and modern fantasy has copied it repeatedly.

If you've never been a victim of or perpetrator if anti-indigenous bias maybe you'd not be aware of it. Playing "Cowboys and Indians" was popular with the boys when I was a child in the 70s, but stopped being OK by my teen years - not too long after they stopped openly sterilizing 'Indian' women (though my Indigenous ancestry comes from a Latin American country where that practice only ended within the last decade making me grateful to not have grown up there...).

The Description of the Orc in D&D stands apart from how it was described in Tolkien and even how it was described in Warcraft. Some versions even had them in 'tribal outfits' though the original 1970s Gygax books had them as pig-men...

Warcraft is where that narrative starts to change. But not at first. Only by the time they started working on their third game and somebody must have realized they'd taken their 'Orc' not from Tolkien but from Gygax and needed to create a new, third kind of 'Orc'.

I brought this up in this topic only because the statements in the first post strongly imply a 'rape by orcs' storyline... as in; a Gygax Orc. Not a Tolkien Orc nor a Warcraft Orc. And there's a nasty legacy there. The author in question, if the implication is right (I refuse to read that story snippet given my ancestry and what I've noted here) then that author would have intentionally chosen that particular Gygax-era version of Orc. The "Savage Indian" version.

Yeah, I hear you about the rape part of the chapter OP linked here and how it's a delicate issue he's gotta be careful with if he wants to post it here. I read some of the story and the creatures doing the bad deeds in his story listed here are actually goblins, no orcs in that chapter despite the name for his story, "Genesis of the Orcs."

But, I have to heavily disagree with those statements about DnD orcs and drows.

Classic Gygax and DnD orcs are just orcs. In the first few editions they were related to goblins(goblinoids in Forgotten Realms) but much bigger, hence the green and gray skin and funky teeth, before they became their own race outright in later editions. With the Classic Gygax orcs, in particular, the first editions they were just primitive evil monsters with stooping postures and disfigured or twisted faces and animal like features(wolf ears with snouts and boar like tusks, and broad proportions in general. I think they were described as "mammilian carnivores" in one of the earlier editions) closer to trolls or goblins than anything human. They didn't have much going for them outside of being murderous minions for evil overlords and wizards or just attacking everything they can while doing vile crimes against everyone around them from their caves and settlements. They were just evil monsters. Later editions they changed to being smarter, far more humanlike, and having a distinct, almost noble warrior culture and basic society valuing strength and battling everything from humans, elves, dwarfs, goblins, to other orcs.

They're fantasy warrior beings intent on war. If we're talking about real life inspirations they're closer to pagan vikings than the indigenous folk of the Americas or Australia or whichever culture you might be thinking of. I mean look at their weapons, they're viking inspired. Like axes, which is pretty much iconic for orcs. Axes were a favorite weapon of vikings on top of spears. And their armors? Viking-esque with metal bracers, boots, viking furs, mixed with the barbarian trope of fighting essentially shirtless. All very Viking inspired. Even their particular philosophies on war and raiding are very viking-esque.

Just to say it, tribal is a description for a way of living isn't a particular race or kind of people. Being tribal just means they live in a smaller group, a tribe. There are tons of tribal cultures all over the world that arent native american, of the Oceana's, or African. Even Europe has some remaining tribal "natives" like the saami of Norway. European ancestors back in the day had tribal roots with clans. Back in the day, Celts, like the Pictish and Gauls, and many other old European cultures, were tribal. Tribal doesn't mean Native American, or aboriginals or any modern group of people that still follow or cherish a tribal style of living. Nor does it mean orcs are based on said real life modern tribes.

Also, Gygax's DnD fantasy setting is based around dark age and medieval era fantasy of which during those times, there were still clans of Europeans. Again, while orcs ARE "tribal" that doesn't mean they are aboriginals or natives. They just don't typically make large empires and nations because they're mostly just too warlike to get along with each other to make a significant group. Unless there's someone to lead them, like a bigger, badder orc that scares them or inspires them as a leader to get together for one goal or purpose, usually for war. Again, not because they're related to natives, directly or indirectly, or how Native Americans or aboriginals try to their lives closer to nature and the spirits, but because they are so warlike. I know my DnD.

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For drow: Yes, he did take the scottish word drow but that doesn't mean anything. Nor is there anything to directly link the backstories for the Drow to ignorant theories that some old racist christian religious leaders had come up with based on their own ideas and interpretations for the Judeo-Christian mythology of Noah, his sons and their descendants. If you ever read the story, "The curse of Ham" doesn't even mention skin color. That was something made up by said racist folk. And there's nothing tying Gygax to the KKK or racist theories.

Their features and nature are based dark elves of pagan norse mythology with his own backstory to it. Everything, including them as beings attuned with darkness is clearly dokkalfr inspired. Even their skin colors are dokkalfr, not dark skin humans. Variations of pale gray, dark gray, white, dark purple and blue, on top the obsidian black. With mostly white hair. They aren't Hamite inspired or inspired by racist interpretations of the story. They're elves based on pagan norse mythology.

If you could point out a feature of the drow and their culture that is directly tied to real life Afro culture or racial stereotypes I would be more inclined to believe it. They don't eat soul food, their culture isn't African American or African in any way, they don't do anything that is directly correlated with any real race or culture in our world. they are fantasy, their culture down to its depth is fantasy. I don't mean anything bad, but I feel like you're trying to compare racist apples and fantasy oranges.

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I just want to add that I don't mean any bad feelings to you or to make you feel bad. That was not my intention. If I did upset you, my bad, but I just had to say something when I read your reply. Hope you're having a great day and keep doing your thing. I might check out some of your stories. The alien GF story sounds interesting.

Also, I think the native cultures of South America are beautiful with cool art, very rich history and mythologies. I've got books on Incan and Aztec mythologies and I find that stuff fascinating. I love South American, Carribean, anything Latino, mestizo or nativo; Latin Americans got the most rich and diverse culture in the world in my opinion which I love to embrace.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I figured as much. There are just so many similarities in the design style between the way the characters look in both Blizzard's games and the Warhammer games that it couldn't be coincidence. I've read the backstory of some of the races for warhammer and I see some inspirations there as well. Different, of course, but similar, like Starcraft Terrans and the humans of Warhammer 40k whose planet of origin is Terra(Terra, Terran). Also, space marines being a thing in both games, which I've seen the crazy lore that Warhammer 40k has for their space marines that make me think like a mix of the Halo Spartans and the Doom guy from Doom that fights demons from hell, and the Warhammer tyrranids and Zergs(both have giant badass monsters called ultralisks as part of their units), etc.

There was a case a few years back where Games Workshop tried to put the heavies on a SF author for writing a book about a "space marine" - never mind that it's been a SF trope for a long long time and hers was very little like theirs. I didn't follow the Starcraft lore closely but IIRC their marines are basically regular human soldiers in armour; the 40K Space Marines are modified to the point where they're practically a different species from normal humanity.

and most of their leaders don't have the common sense to wear their damn helmets in battle come on guys seriously you can't serve the Emperor when you're dead

well maybe you can but we don't talk about that

The Zerg and Tyrannids do have a lot of similarities, but I'd guess a lot of that comes from both being influenced by Alien/H.R. Giger.

"Terra" is just another name for "Earth", I don't think even GW claims to own that one!

I've also seen the level of detail people put into painting their figurines, and I could see myself getting into that kind of hobby. That shit looks fun.

It is. The problem for me was, I loved painting individuals but wargaming means painting units, and I get bored easily if I'm painting ten soldiers all with the same gear etc., even with the little individual touches. Roleplaying miniatures worked better for me since I wasn't often painting lots of the same.

 

[Bramblethorn]

> I'm going to make a wild assumption and say you're a fan of Goblin Slayer.

Bingo!

I'm beginning to think that ArchiveOfOurOwn may be a good home for this story. It has remarkably extensive tagging to make it discoverable for this niche awhile warning off folks who'll find it offensive.

Probably a better fit than here, yeah. As well as the tagging aspect, Ao3 is just generally a bit more fanfic-friendly.

Dost thee wot such uneath language? Later chapters have amateurish attempts at Middle English. Probably another bad idea but it's been fun to learn.

*twitch*

I'll be honest, ungrammatical ME is usually an instant nope for me. Reading something that has the "thee"s mixed up with the "thou"s grates on me in the same way as seeing somebody write "me went to the shops" or "he punched I".

 

[Bramblethorn]

As for Orcs - you can pretend all you want. But you only have to look at the descriptions of them, and then look at descriptions of Indigenous people that were common up until maybe 3 decades ago - and it's a cut and paste job.

As somebody who's been playing D&D since "Keep on the Borderlands"... I don't have anything to contribute here on where Gygax and the other writers got their ideas from, but setting aside the question of origins for a moment, I do think it's worth thinking about the role that orcs (and goblins, and other fantasy races) play in the setting as designated adversaries.

Back when I started, the main playing style I encountered in D&D was what's sometimes called "murderhobo": the PCs find some den of monsters, they kill them, they take their stuff, and wander on to the next town to use that stuff to help them kill the next bunch of monsters. It was maybe a bit more popular in the old days, maybe a bit less popular now, but it's still a popular way to play. And I absolutely do understand the appeal, I have a bloodthirsty streak.

The thing about murderhoboing is, most players don't want to see themselves/their characters as murderhobos. If you show them a juicy village full of friendly hobbits offering them pies, they'd feel uncomfortable about murdering those villagers and taking their stuff. So RPGs pretty quickly evolved tropes that give players permission to unleash their inner murderhobo, with Designated Evil races being one of the big ones. That can come with a backstory about how they turned to serve an evil god, atrocity stories about orcs raping the women and wasting the men, and a helpful entry in the Monster Manual that says these creatures are evil. And usually there's some nice clear visual distinction, whether it's green skin or weird eyes or just a fondness for black armour.

* * * * *

A few hundred years back, one of the main playing styles in world politics was what's sometimes called "colonialism": a nation finds some land with poorly-defended resources, they kill and/or subjugate whoever's already living there, take their stuff, and then use those resources to help conquer the next place along. It was maybe a bit more popular back then, maybe a bit less popular now, but it still hasn't gone entirely out of fashion and we're still living with the consequences.

The thing about colonialism is, most "civilised" folk don't want to see themselves as murderers and thieves. Most would feel bad about breaking into their neighbours' house, killing them, and taking their stuff. So colonialism pretty quickly evolved tropes that gave colonialists permission to kill and enslave the natives without feeling bad about it, and a large part of that was weaponised racism. Sometimes that involved religious justifications like the Curse of Ham, sometimes pseudo-scientific fables about how certain races are just naturally predisposed to violence and indolence (and invariably lusting after white women), sometimes legal doctrines about how the people who'd been living in that land for tens of thousands of years didn't really "own" it. And of course it's easier to implement these things when there's a nice clear visual distinction between the ones who do and don't have rights, like say skin colour.

* * * * *

We can argue about whether the former took inspiration from the latter. (Or rather, you can argue and I'll listen, because I don't have knowledge to contribute there.) But even if it didn't... it's not coincidence that there are similarities between those two things, because ultimately both of them are created as answers to the same question: how can I make my buddies feel comfortable with the idea of killing somebody and taking their stuff, so we can enjoy the benefits of that without feeling like we're the baddies?

Does that make murderhobo-style RPGs bad, when nobody is actually getting murdered? That's a philosophical question and it's past philosophy o'clock here. But I think it's worth at least thinking closely about why we're putting so much energy into coming up with a rationalisation for killing people and taking their stuff, and understanding that when the fruits of that rationalisation have so many parallels to hideous evils from RL, that's not just a crazy random coincidence.

I still have orcs and goblins in the games I run. But these days I try to avoid using them as a shorthand for "permission to kill these guys - te absolvo", and to steer clear of the tropes about them that are built around granting that permission.

Warcraft is where that narrative starts to change. But not at first. Only by the time they started working on their third game and somebody must have realized they'd taken their 'Orc' not from Tolkien but from Gygax and needed to create a new, third kind of 'Orc'.

I brought this up in this topic only because the statements in the first post strongly imply a 'rape by orcs' storyline... as in; a Gygax Orc. Not a Tolkien Orc nor a Warcraft Orc. And there's a nasty legacy there. The author in question, if the implication is right (I refuse to read that story snippet given my ancestry and what I've noted here) then that author would have intentionally chosen that particular Gygax-era version of Orc. The "Savage Indian" version.

FWIW, my understanding of the story was "the first orcs were created by goblins raping elves".

There's a historical parallel there too, in the idea that the results of race-mixing might be worse than either of the parents. I recall that coming up in "Tom Sawyer", where the villain is a half-caste.

 

[Jmanchu]

> I'm going to make a wild assumption and say you're a fan of Goblin Slayer.

Bingo!

Haha, I had a feeling you did.

I'm beginning to think that ArchiveOfOurOwn may be a good home for this story. It has remarkably extensive tagging to make it discoverable for this niche awhile warning off folks who'll find it offensive.

I mean, this site has sort of strict rules about what's okay and what's not for violence and non-con, but at the same time, as long as you follow the guidelines right, you can actually get away with some dark stories that do involve violent sexual situations, and even death. Just that mixing the two in one fell sweep or as part of the act is where you'll run into problems. The fight with the wargs with all the tasty gory action? Fine. The gobbos happening on her when she's weakened and bleeding? Okay. Satan bridenapping and possibly raping a goddess as a backstory for why your world is hellish and a little grimdark? Cool. Breaking fingers and ankles to make sure the female main doesn't get away for their twisted gobbo needs? That there is where Literotica will have problems for sure. If she's taking no sexual pleasure, no enjoyment from the first few parts of the scene. Also a problem.

Btw, here are a lot of ways to express "enjoyment," even ways that don't mean she's aware she's having fun or is secretly saying yes but playing coy, or just being reluctant(Still can get rejected, since whether a story goes through here is up to the judgement of the site owner and what she thinks, but it is possible to get something like that published). She doesn't have to be like "I like it, actually" or "Wow, this is actually great!" or "I'm secretly happy! This is what I wanted all along!" to express it. I'll put some examples of what I mean later.

But if you need the situation to start off with her basically crippled then it wouldn't be a bad idea to consider other sites that are more lenient with sex mixing with violence. Not saying anything about you and the dark content since your story is fantasy fiction, and everyone has kinks, and some kinks go to really dark places, so in that regard, you're not as out of place here as you might think.

What I'm aiming for is an immersive story about how it'd feel to become a goblin's birthing vessel (tropes: 1, 2). It seems decently common in manga (for example Princess Knight Taming) but I wanted to write a story about how it'd feel to be the victim on the other end.

"taming" isn't too niche in terms of niche stuff or looked down upon, even gobbo catching maidens against their will for gangbanging and forced breeding. That is definitely a thing.

If you've ever checked out some of the stories in the Sci-Fi and fantasy, Non-con, BDSM, some of them do go to some very psychologically twisted places, so the overall theme of your erotica is not actually bad in of itself, and the premise your story follows can find a way home here.

For working on these kinds of stories, I would personally research BDSM culture. Your thing is heavily Non-con BDSM with fantasy at heart.

My hope's that the fantasy theme provides cognitive distance. I know it's too violent for broad appeal... or maybe any. It also lacks the no-means-yes turnabout that people desire to make domination fantasies palatable.

There's going to be a little cognitive distance. You even put in a disclaimer if I remember. So, you are good when it comes to that part.

Maybe this story's a dud. If so then at least I've had fun writing it.

Ehh... It's got a lot of promise. Just some issues, but the core is definitely something that is workable and certainly there are people who would enjoy the premise, even what you had, overall.

Thanks Jmanchu and Bramblethorn! These are useful data points. I previously did as you suggest (minimal distortions), then put exorbitant thought into complicating it with a consistent set of rules.

Maybe that was a mistake. Doing so I hypothesized that slow, phonetic readers like me could fluently read it whereas speed readers would struggle. To test I sent sample dialog to a friend. She reported it as crystal clear. I've been pretty starved for feedback...

Dost thee wot such uneath language? Later chapters have amateurish attempts at Middle English. Probably another bad idea but it's been fun to learn.

Glad to help with that. Yeah, this is one of those particular things where you have to really consider the reader. Some I could read quickly enough, in the same sense I'm actually able to read mirrored text and text upside-down (weird skill, I know), but that makes extra work for readers. Some, I read good enough for the most part. Some I had to use context to fit together and decipher one word that I had trouble with. Some... I... I couldn't read. It felt like I was trying to decipher a coded gobbo language puzzle game.

 

[Jmanchu]

Dost thee wot such uneath language? Later chapters have amateurish attempts at Middle English. Probably another bad idea but it's been fun to learn.

Don't know what your later style of Middle Earth looks like since I haven't seen your later chapters, but your prose and (mostly) formal narrative works fine(just try not to mix informal words like "alotta" instead of "a lot of," especially with the writing style you're going for).

> And I'd say get more into the sexual psychology of the characters.

That's unfortunate. The story's trying to focus on Eve's psychology so in your case I was apparently unsuccessful.

This is where I want to talk about the sexual psychology, desire, and non-con, eroticism, along with other ways that you can make your situation more friendly for readers without taking out the brutal nature of your story outright and making it sterile. I'll show just a couple examples mainly as suggestions(since there are soo many ways you can this, these are just meant to be a few ideas but there are sooo many ways you can do this beyond the few ideas I'm gonna throw out) but keep in mind they're suggestions more than outright advice to follow, since you know your characters best.

For the female main, a character that you established as honorable, brave, very high class and educated, essentially nobble(I'm basing this on how properly she speaks) with a strong code of moral conduct. She had a brave fight that left her nearly dead against monsters she slew and now she's heavily weakened after her battle.

She ends up with bad luck as goblins find her. She realizes she's in a bad position and tries to negotiate her way out hoping to appeal to whatever mercy and rationality these crude things have in them. They recognize she's hurt and some of them are talking about "eating her" or saying other disgusting things that make it clear they are not good gobbos and helps to establish the stakes of whats at hand(you did this fine). Here's where you can get a little into the psychology. Goblins in your story are obviously savage, crude monsters that kill, eat people and rape. She would obviously know that, and there's a chance for you to use short exposition or better yet, her words to convey that. She can negotiate that she's better use to them alive, that she can get them what they want, treasures, or whatever favors her superiors can grant them, while trying to hide her angst over what she knows what they're capable of.

An example could be: >I know the horrible deeds of what these uncouth little beasts are capable of. The stories of what they do to civilized folk, the horrible things, the wicked acts these simple savages bring down on the unfortunate women who fall prey to them... Death would be a better alternative... Hopefully, I may get them to listen to reason. They are more timid by nature, after all.<

Even if she's not looking forward to it you can already establish awareness of what's at stake. Like in the quick example I made(just an example) they do horrible things to people(violent) and horrible things to women(sexual horror. She knows what's at stake as a woman herself). This direct narrative allows a little bit of dread and anticipation already as the female main recognizes the danger and the situation. Even if she doesn't outright state it or show any particular favor for it(yet), you can establish the sexual situation just by putting it out there. Even if nothing happens yet.

Another random idea. I may go just a bit off script: She's trying to plead and negotiate, but they're not caring or really listening. She keeps trying, telling them she's better alive and unharmed than dead, and they could get money, or other things that she, or her superiors as noble elves of power can give her. That there's no reason to hurt her, they can be logical. Instead of breaking ankles, the lead gobbo can, for example, just backhand her, tell her to shut up. However she reacts, whether she quietly glares, or is still trying to play the amicable negotiator, depends on her personality. The gobbo talks to her, tells her she's going to be their captive, or they have plans for her. Whatever.

If she shows any sign of disapproval he mocks her, manhandles her and tells her if she tries anything they'll break a leg and an arm to make sure she doesn't cause trouble. Threats can work just as effectively as violent actions for deterrants. Threats are violent in their own right, and if you've established that gobbos are evil, and the world she is in is brutal and dark, it already will create the effect of "violence" from the words alone. Her outrage at the way she's treated, which she either hides or tries to show, depending on her personality. And now there's more anticipation, if you've established something about goblins and what they do to their captives... because now things are going in that direction.

She may suddenly turn valiant and protest, she may plead or try her best to push the topic back to negotiating her release with other things to appease them, but now they are tying her up, and eyeing their new goods. She's trying to ignore the crude comments, the way their lustful eyes are looking at her like some prize instead of a great warrior. She protests or pleads "Unhand me you animals! I am (Eve's full name) of (Whatever authority she appeals to), and I will not be treated this way! You will pay if you dare --Mmph!" or "Listen! I am Eve (Last Name), and I serve (Authority she appeals for)! My superiors will reward you handsomely! Treasure! Fame! Whatever you wish! All I ask is for --Mmph!" However it goes. They muffle her with that dirty loincloth and mock her. She's helpless to their touching as their hands wander freely across her body, though she struggles bravely. She's outraged, feels degraded, unable to get the taste of the foul cloth out of her mouth as they laugh at her. All she can do is make muffled noises through that disgusting thing gagging her mouth. She had faced many life-or-death situations, fought many grim, terrifying, evil foes, but to fall prey to such crude, disgusting and lowly little men... for them to treat noble warrior like her in such a way! How dare they! But she will not show fear... Not to those crude bastards... but she can't do much as they take her to the cave. They leave her alone for the moment in the corner of the cave to do other goblin things, but they have plans. Oh, they have plans...

Now she knows dread, she doesn't know what's going to happen, she may plot for an escape... whatever it is, she better do something quick or she may face a terrible fate... While she's plotting, she can't help but imagine the horrible, degrading things that they may do to her... To face a fate of being a mere fucktoy of a nest of goblins while she struggles helplessly against her restraints, ignoring the foul taste of her mouth gag... Dread and Anticipation. My friend.

Then during. Her plan failed and they didn't appreciate her trying to get away. Now punishment comes. Fear and outrage twists into dark excitement in her terrifying and humiliating situation as they use her. They threaten her, mock her, smack her. The more she hates it, the more turned on and hot her body gets, the more shame and disgust she feels at herself, because a shameful part of her actually enjoys it... She hates that a part of her is finding such dark pleasure in it. She screams vitriol at her captors and tries to hide her sensual writhing with futile struggling full of false bravado. She could not dare let them know that she is finding a twisted pleasure in it. She won't give them the satisfaction! It's a betrayal of everything she stands for and now she's in an emotional crisis because of her contradicting feelings over the situation. Is she a valiant and noble warrior at heart? Or just a dirty whore with a discovered taste for goblin cock at the core of her being?

Those are just random ideas, and I'm far from the best writer here, so I'm not telling you at all to follow what I wrote here as someone could probably do what I tried to do here but better. I'm just trying to point out one way you can flesh the emotional content and sexual psychology out more before and during the sexual encounters. There are far more ways you can do it than just what I showed as examples. Dread and anticipation. It's Your best friend for horror and it would work well with a goblin slayer-esque erotica.

 

[Jmanchu]

There was a case a few years back where Games Workshop tried to put the heavies on a SF author for writing a book about a "space marine" - never mind that it's been a SF trope for a long long time and hers was very little like theirs. I didn't follow the Starcraft lore closely but IIRC their marines are basically regular human soldiers in armour; the 40K Space Marines are modified to the point where they're practically a different species from normal humanity.

and most of their leaders don't have the common sense to wear their damn helmets in battle come on guys seriously you can't serve the Emperor when you're dead

well maybe you can but we don't talk about that

The Zerg and Tyrannids do have a lot of similarities, but I'd guess a lot of that comes from both being influenced by Alien/H.R. Giger.

"Terra" is just another name for "Earth", I don't think even GW claims to own that one!



It is. The problem for me was, I loved painting individuals but wargaming means painting units, and I get bored easily if I'm painting ten soldiers all with the same gear etc., even with the little individual touches. Roleplaying miniatures worked better for me since I wasn't often painting lots of the same.

Yeah, Starcraft Marines are regular humans in super high-tech armor and special stim packs that temporarily give em superhuman abilities like increased speed, reflexes and high energy due to extreme adrenaline dump. Warhammer Space Marines would seem more like Spartans from Halo, from what I gather, but with a little more epic fantasy in em. That's what impression they give me. I think the different chapters they have with their individual lore pretty cool.

Yeah, I see the Alien/h.r giger influence for sure. Especially with the Zerg Hydralisks and some of the the tyrranids. But the spacefaring hive stuff is definitely very similar too.

I might just get only one army set as a collection. Dunno how good it is, but I wanna get that "Thousand Sons," just because I think they look cool(That Egyptian blue thing they got going on looks sick), and I read their backstory with Tzeench and how they came to be.

 

[JeansGrey]

Hi lovely Literotica community. I was directed here by the content guidelines.

For the last eighteen months I've been writing a fantasy-world themed erotic horror story. I'm ready to post my first chapter but unsure if it violates the content guidelines. In particular...

> Ravishment/non-consent fantasies in which the “victim” receives no thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and/or permanently physically harmed/abused/maimed/killed.

The protagonist certainly doesn't enjoy the first chapter. She also gets maimed in my story. The latter's not a central feature nor meant to glorify the act.

I'm unsure if it crosses the line this policy's aiming for. Regardless, I'd prefer to avoid the rudeness and headache if posting's a no-go.

I'd really like to get writing advice from the Literotica community (and hopefully recruit some volunteer editors for my next chapter). I've never shown my writing to anyone and I'm really keen to hear the feedback.

That said, if my story's too toxic for this site I certainly don't want to make folks feel uncomfortable.

This form doesn't permit textual attachments so here's my first chapter...

[Link removed. Please do not link to full stories/chapters that haven't been approved by Lit. If you need to vet a story, pass it through private messages. -AH Mod]

TL;DR. For this site's content moderators:

1. Is this story permissible?
2. If so, should I keep the warning header?
3. If not, do folks know of another writing community to suggest?

Thanks! -Goblin Minstrel

IMO, No one who has a rape trigger should be looking up rape stories. If they see it in the description, then why would they keep looking. Now, I've never been raped but have been sexually abused when younger. People can be traumatized by so many things, I feel the author shouldn't have to worry about being censored. Do we not put men in stories because some women have been traumatized by men. Do we censor bondage because some readers may have been trapped in claustrophobic spaces?
The whole idea behind fantasy erotica is to play on things you can't and often shouldn't IRL. It's a way to get it out of your system, explore your boundaries, etc. I know the difference between real and fantasy. Any mature adult should.
I'd say if your story doesn't fly here, take it somewhere else. Create your own webpage. Always have a warning header. People don't f*cking read so put it in a couple of places. Anyone complaining about the content of your stories, direct them to a counseling hotline or similar so they can work on their trauma and heal.
That's just my opinion.

 

[KeithD]

The whole idea behind fantasy erotica is to play on things you can't and often shouldn't IRL. It's a way to get it out of your system, explore your boundaries, etc. I know the difference between real and fantasy. Any mature adult should.

I don't think it's the whole idea, but I think it's an important aspect of it.

 

[Dunes_et_Soleil]

One thing I would be cautious of... "Orc" in modern fantasy is a "proxy" for Indigenous people in the same way that "Drow" is a proxy for Black people.

Orcs are usually depicted with a culture that mimics the worst racist stereotypes of Indigenous people - right down the false narrative that "half-breeds" are the result of Orcs sexually assaulting women (this is something racist tropes claim against both Black and Indigenous men which is almost 105% false if you look at DNA).

Likewise, Drow are so bad their origin story is actually taken from "The Curse of Ham" - which was a thing made up by a Catholic monk to claim Africans were turned from being "proper white people" into Black Africans because their ancestor sinned and rejected God. That was so toxic the Catholic church declared it a heresy the moment it was published and had it destroyed... It was so racist even the Catholic Church in the 1500s said "F no". but somehow it reached the ears of people in the Slave Trade and got sold to non-Catholic Churches in the USA - where it was taught so as to keep people from questioning slavery. It was still being taught by a certain faith in Utah up until 1978 - most everyone else having rejected it decades earlier.

Orcs are usually depicted as wild savages that attack and pillage White... er... Elf and Human settlements, scalp people, and drag off the women. Producing mix-breeds like me.


I'd think about how you want to write your Orcs... in relation to how such narratives get perceived in today's world.

It might be "fantasy" - but that's long been just a place to conceal things people won't say in more "polite company"...

(There's a reason that a new company that tried to bring back 'TSR' - the original publisher of D&D before they went under and D&D ended up being owned by Hasbro - and publish some Dungeons and Dragons stuff based on a theme of a 'White controlled world' setting without having a license was partly started by a member of the Gygax family... when you can note that the prime reason the tropes for modern Orcs and Drow exist is because of how Gary Gygax wrote them in his D&D books back in the 1970s... before D&D those words meant very different things. Though Tolkiens Orcs still have some nasty connotations - they were different, and might almost be a statement against Facism as they were actually Elves who's bodies became twisted when they embraced hate - rather than a different species of 'sub people' like Gygax made them.)

There's a reason Hasbro keeps having to apologize when they reprint old books, and has to keep rewriting stuff. The "Orc" of modern fantasy games and video games became so radically different from the Tolkien Orc as a result of being intentionally injected with anti-Indigenous racist tropes while being crafted over at TSR in the 70s and 80s.


If you're writing about "Orcs sexually assaulting women" you're stepping on a land mine that's intentionally deeply wrapped up in real world racist narratives.

.

Thank you for making this more clear, I have never actually written about orcs but have about trolls and goblins. To me this background of the orcs is very valuable and I will keep it in mind as it may pop up somewhere in the future.

Sorry to say that I don't have high hopes that this sort of double speak will ever change.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Dunno if posting the story in a direct link is the right place here. Probably it's fine,

Just for your info, no, it's not okay. Links to off-site story content are contrary to Lit's policies on this. The OP's link has been removed.

The site allows three paragraphs of unapproved content for comment, not great long chunks, and no off-site links.

 

[Jmanchu]

Just for your info, no, it's not okay. Links to off-site story content are contrary to Lit's policies on this. The OP's link has been removed.

The site allows three paragraphs of unapproved content for comment, not great long chunks, and no off-site links.

Ah, good to know.