Is including minors in an erotic story child porn?

[Oblimo]

My asking was of why the need to flirt at all.

When it's funny?

"Hey, kid," a low female voice asked. "You're over eighteen, right?"

The paperboy adjusted the strap of his satchel. "Uh, yeah, sure. I'm, uh…" He shrugged. "Helping my kid brother do his route this week?"

Overlapping giggles rippled down the hallway outside. "Good enough for us. Now let us in, kid." The door juddered in its frame. "You've got a few dozen asses to tap."

But I don't think that's a reason to flirt with it on a site that doesn't permit it.

 

[NoJo]

That's a load of self-serving crap.

I had a self-serving crap this morning

 

[sr71plt]

I had a self-serving crap this morning

And did it constitute a load? half load? quarter load? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[NoJo]

And did it constitute a load? half load? quarter load? Inquiring minds want to know.

Don't get me started on my poos. I could write a book about it. In fact I probably will.

It will sell like hot cakes

 

[WRJames]

I wasn't speaking of myself personally wanting this. I was making a general question to those who feel that they want "more." The "more" being the showing of sexuality or expression of sexuality amongst the teen set.

It seems — through what's being discussed and evidenced from some given stories in the archives here, as well as the topic of this thread itself — as if some people want to FLIRT with the issue and seem to take creative license in seeing how far they can push the boundary envelope of under-eighteen sex in their stories without having to cross that ultimate line. My asking was of why the need to flirt at all. Either do it or don't do it. All or nothing. And of course, if you want to do it, then do it elsewhere where it's appreciated.

Why the need to flirt? Really -- what a strange question for an erotic site. Flirtation is erotic -- just doing it is -- well, not all that artful. And isn't it the forbidden fruit that tastes the sweetest?

 

[NoJo]

Why the need to flirt? Really -- what a strange question for an erotic site. Flirtation is erotic -- just doing it is -- well, not all that artful. And isn't it the forbidden fruit that tastes the sweetest?

I never understood that. I've always gone for the low-hanging fruit. If a woman won't put out immediately, she's probably not very good at sex.

 

[Elenia26]

What's really ironic is we can have violence and beatings and non-consent and rape...but no 16 YO's ever. Retarded. I don't blame the owners of this site but the stupid, prudish US government and people that think violence is just fine but OMG my child saw a nipple on TV for a second.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Why the need to flirt? Really -- what a strange question for an erotic site. Flirtation is erotic -- just doing it is -- well, not all that artful. And isn't it the forbidden fruit that tastes the sweetest?

Oh, I have no problem with flirting as a capricious action. When you can express this flirting between two characters that (hopefully) leads to an erotic conclusion or some sort of fruition within the story fully without constraints, it's totally erotic. Hubba hubba.

I'm talking about the flirting with the concept of under-eighteen sex and sexuality in erotica for Lit that's the hot topic in this thread. Maybe I should've said "tease," instead. It just seems to be useless to skirt around something you can't show but do your best to show it in so many words anyway, and having that "best" be of very little use, being filler at the most, because of the guideline constraints. I just don't see the point in having a, let's say, 16 or 17-year-old character on the erotic sidelines in an erotic story (instead of a indirect background character) and having them be nothing or do nothing more than just exist as the flirt of the concept instead of a realized "forbidden fruit" character.

But if there is some virtue in doing so that I'm not understanding — as under the rules of this site — then I'd like to know what that is.

Or maybe I'm just missing the point here entirely and I need to lay off the Makers' shots.

 

[NoJo]

I've written characters in Lit stories with obvious indications that they are younger than 18 And as long as I don't mention the age, the story gets accepted. So it's pretty easy to imply that the person is minor in a story here.

 

[WRJames]

Oh, I have no problem with flirting as a capricious action. When you can express this flirting between two characters that (hopefully) leads to an erotic conclusion or some sort of fruition within the story fully without constraints, it's totally erotic. Hubba hubba.

I'm talking about the flirting with the concept of under-eighteen sex and sexuality in erotica for Lit that's the hot topic in this thread. Maybe I should've said "tease," instead. It just seems to be useless to skirt around something you can't show but do your best to show it in so many words anyway, and having that "best" be of very little use, being filler at the most, because of the guideline constraints. I just don't see the point in having a, let's say, 16 or 17-year-old character on the erotic sidelines in an erotic story (instead of a indirect background character) and having them be nothing or do nothing more than just exist as the flirt of the concept instead of a realized "forbidden fruit" character.

But if there is some virtue in doing so that I'm not understanding — as under the rules of this site — then I'd like to know what that is.

Or maybe I'm just missing the point here entirely and I need to lay off the Makers' shots.

Well, artistic expression has also had a lot to do with being able to speak (or paint) the unspeakable. Today when we have so few taboos, so little censorship, that has lost a lot of its zest. Having grown up in the fifties, I can remember when innuendo and tittilation were in their prime.

In my case, it is not Lit, but my publishing editor (at Club Lighthouse Publishing) that makes the boundaries, and my options aren't quite as easy as someone who can just post their story to another online site. But -- I'm her favorite author, or at least her best selling one, and I keep straining against her editorial boundaries.

 

[keeblercrumb]

What's really ironic is we can have violence and beatings and non-consent and rape...but no 16 YO's ever. Retarded. I don't blame the owners of this site but the stupid, prudish US government and people that think violence is just fine but OMG my child saw a nipple on TV for a second.

You are exactly right.... I do not blame Lit.. how can you? You know what kind of shit would come down on them if they strayed over this stupid line. Who wants to be tagged with a "child porn" label?

Never mind that sexuality DEFINES adolescence. I guess that thing that kept popping up under my pants for two years when I was 12 was only the pencil set I kept in pocket. Thank god, sex only appears when people turn 18!

As for writing about it here, as described above, it is done routinely even if not stated overtly or incomprehensively labeled 18.

By the way.... where are we with Nobokov's Lolita? Is this illegal now?
KC


KC

 

[oggbashan]

UK roadside advert

Today I saw a roadside advertisement for a new kind of sweet (candy).

The words read"

More fun for your tongue than you had behind the Science block in the 4th Year.

4th year approximates to 14 or 15 years-old.

I couldn't write about what happened behind the Science block. I know what happened behind the Science block, the bicycle sheds, the caretaker's hut, etc. because I was there - but writing about my experiences and posting them here could damage Literotica.

Of course, in the UK, I could have got married, with parental consent, in my 5th year. Then I could be prosecuted in the US for sex with a minor...

Og

 

[cantdog]

This is something that has been on my mind for some time now. I've read two erotica books that had minors in them, although the age wasn't mentioned. I knew by the description of the characters. But I noticed you can't submit stories on here with minors in them (you also can't submit bestiality stories, which is absurd) Hey! I don't want to have sex with animals or minors, but what's wrong with including them in a sexual plot or situation? So long as the minor isn't too young, of course. I wouldn't include a 7 year old girl/boy, but maybe a 15 year old, nor would they be coerced to do anything. Not in my plots!

So, is that considered child porn or something? That's stupid if it is. It's FICTION!

I'd like some information regarding this.

I love it that you can spell bestiality.

But the site has a policy. What of it? Write your kid story about initiation sexual experience all you like. The fact that they won't take it on this site is minor, really. There are other outlets.

 

[cantdog]

You are exactly right.... I do not blame Lit.. how can you? You know what kind of shit would come down on them if they strayed over this stupid line. Who wants to be tagged with a "child porn" label?

Never mind that sexuality DEFINES adolescence. I guess that thing that kept popping up under my pants for two years when I was 12 was only the pencil set I kept in pocket. Thank god, sex only appears when people turn 18!

As for writing about it here, as described above, it is done routinely even if not stated overtly or incomprehensively labeled 18.

By the way.... where are we with Nobokov's Lolita? Is this illegal now?
KC


KC

You mean incomprehensibly, I believe, and Nabokov. The whole subject of what went on behind oggbashan's Science block is a valid one, and deserves exploration, and as you imply, the exploration could certainly be a masterpiece of literature. Coming of age is one of the key human experiences.

And there's always a pack of hyperreligious doodahs willing to come along and burn the books. But this site isn't one of them. They are not making it illegal, although the Justice department is trying to. Join ACLU, if you're American, and help prevent that.

 

[Vermilion]

if you were an english 18 year old married (legally with parental consent) to an english 16 year old and you went to America for a holiday (or your honeymoon even) and someone found out you were married and having sex... would the 18 year old be prosecutable under American law?

Just curious.

And what if the 18 year old and the minor weren't married, would that make any difference?

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[Jenny_Jackson]

if you were an english 18 year old married (legally with parental consent) to an english 16 year old and you went to America for a holiday (or your honeymoon even) and someone found out you were married and having sex... would the 18 year old be prosecutable under American law?

Just curious.

And what if the 18 year old and the minor weren't married, would that make any difference?

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In some states it can land you in jail, V. Just ask Jerry Lee Lewis. Oh, but then his 13 year old wife was also his cousin. That's not only legal but expected in some southern state.

 

[oggbashan]

if you were an english 18 year old married (legally with parental consent) to an english 16 year old and you went to America for a holiday (or your honeymoon even) and someone found out you were married and having sex... would the 18 year old be prosecutable under American law?

Just curious.

And what if the 18 year old and the minor weren't married, would that make any difference?

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Yes, you could be prosecuted in some states, married or not.

A local policeman, married since he was 18 and his wife was 17, with a son born before his wife's 18th birthday, moved to the US and had to get a special exemption before he could be employed as a police officer in the US. By the laws of the state he moved to, his son was proof of illegal intercourse with a minor.

I think he had to be formally pardoned by the state's Governor...

Og

 

[elfin_odalisque]

if you were an english 18 year old married (legally with parental consent) to an english 16 year old and you went to America for a holiday (or your honeymoon even) and someone found out you were married and having sex... would the 18 year old be prosecutable under American law?

Just curious.

And what if the 18 year old and the minor weren't married, would that make any difference?

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Yes, only problem is 16 is the age of consent in a lot of states, so no problem. In W Virginia, I think it's legal for a 15-year-old girl to get married.

 

[Vermilion]

Yes, only problem is 16 is the age of consent in a lot of states, so no problem. In W Virginia, I think it's legal for a 15-year-old girl to get married.

Really? I thought it was 18 all over.

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[elfin_odalisque]

I wasn't speaking of myself personally wanting this. I was making a general question to those who feel that they want "more." The "more" being the showing of sexuality or expression of sexuality amongst the teen set.

It seems — through what's being discussed and evidenced from some given stories in the archives here, as well as the topic of this thread itself — as if some people want to FLIRT with the issue and seem to take creative license in seeing how far they can push the boundary envelope of under-eighteen sex in their stories without having to cross that ultimate line. My asking was of why the need to flirt at all. Either do it or don't do it. All or nothing. And of course, if you want to do it, then do it elsewhere where it's appreciated.

I'm sorry if I was a bit brusque before, but I just wish we could put this to rest.

Forgetting the religious gestapo, there is general concern about pedophilia on the net. Every well-run site tries to make sure they comply strictly with the rules. If you want to 'flirt' with the rules HERE, I, and I think a bundle of others, would have you run out of town. We are guests here and shouldn't abuse the welcome.

Sure, underage sex is happening all the time. Heck, Romeo and Juliet were 14 and that gets no R-rating. You can publish anything (and defend it) as long as you take the risk. Lolita is a superb but worrying novel.

Og had it right with his hedgehog. What most readers want here is a well-told sexy story, within the guidelines and without anything upsetting. That is what L&M cater for and we have to live with that.

As a bit of a jibe, I would add that the effort to stay inthe mainstream has been an influence on keeping here a load of quality writers who would otherwise have decamped.

There is a place for bestiality, child abuse, sadistic sex - probably in prison, but certainly not on this site.

Sorry for the rant, but unless you've been hanging about here for a while, you don't appreciate what an oasis it is.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Really? I thought it was 18 all over.

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No, 16 is about standard. The reason you Brits get the wrong idea is the law to stop under-18's appearing as nude models and in sex vids.

The rules here are probably over-protective, the net rules about showing pics of under-18 girls probably don't apply to written material, but who can blame Laurel & Manu for being careful.

Also, if this place got down and dirty, would you and the other great beasts of the AH jungle still prowl here?

 

[3113]

Really? I thought it was 18 all over.

Nope. That's always that battle in the U.S.--what laws are up to each state to make, and what laws are Federally mandated and every state has to observe them? For example, it used to be that the legal drinking age varied from state to state, and then came the "National minimum drinking age" law of 1984 which put it at 21 across the U.S.

Back in the bad old days, interracial marriage was legal in some states but not in others. There's always that crazy push and pull, what's legal in some states but not in others...and what's legal/illegal in all states because it's a federal law not a state's law. It gets very confusing.

 

[slyc_willie]

In many states, it's legal for a minor of at least 14 to be sexually involved with someone up to four years older. We just can't write about it.

Whether or not someone can write a touching, tender, and tasteful story about a young man or woman's first time, before they were of legal age, is not the issue. This is a free site, and Laurel and Manu want to keep it that way. If they really wanted to allow stories that depicted underaged sex, or beastiality, they would probably have to make this a pay site, like SOL.

 

[Vermilion]

No, 16 is about standard. The reason you Brits get the wrong idea is the law to stop under-18's appearing as nude models and in sex vids.

The rules here are probably over-protective, the net rules about showing pics of under-18 girls probably don't apply to written material, but who can blame Laurel & Manu for being careful.

Also, if this place got down and dirty, would you and the other great beasts of the AH jungle still prowl here?

Wow - well, not sure I'd include myself in that menagerie... but anyway... I guess the reason everyone on Lit gets so het up about the 'is it child porn' question is because they remember their teen years and how curious and sexually charged they were and desire, as a writer, to *utilise* that in erotic writing. I think that is the reason I have written some stories outside the 18 age limit (but not published them) because I want to explore that sexual tension and energy of the teenager. I'm not sure the story I'm thinking of ever actually got to *sex* itself, but the sexual elements I did explore made it unsuitable for Lit.

It's not about sexualising innocent children, well, not for me and not for most of the writers here I wouldn;t imagine, it's about exploring the more powerful and passionate era in a human being's life, when they come to full realisation of their sexuality and how intense and difficult and wonderful that can be.

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[Vermilion]

That being said, I don't want Lit shut down because some puritanical twit in the States takes offence at the whole site and use the child porn angle as leverage so I play by the rules, even though the legal age in my country is two years younger.
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