How do you know it’s time to pull the trigger?

[Victoria14xs]

It’s a trusted reader, who will give you honest advice and suggestions for improvement. Different from an editor, because they don’t make changes themselves.

Thanks for sorting me out. Should have intuited that.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I confess I don’t know what that is. I guess not an editor, or you’d have said editor…

You'll probably get a few different definitions in this thread. In general "beta reading" is a bit more subjective than "editing" and perhaps with less technical depth/expertise expected; in some settings "editor" might imply formal credentials. But "editor" covers a wide range of things, and on Literotica these terms are used informally and not always consistently. So it's generally better to be explicit about expectations rather than relying on a shared expectation about what "beta-read" or "editor" means.

FWIW, I posted a How-To on editing recently: https://literotica.com/s/editors-notes-changes

It's not intended as a pattern for every author-editor interaction, just as an example of how one particular collaboration worked, but I have a bit of discussion there about the kinds of things authors and editors/beta-readers might want to agree on up front.

 

[Victoria14xs]

Pull the trigger? I presume you mean scrap or publish. What I do is call up an alternative personality I’ve developed who is my editor and alpha reader. She looks over the story and we fix inconsistencies, grammar errors and so forth. Sometimes she calls in other characters in my mind who help me address plot holes and other serious problems. When my inner editor is satisfied I publish. If she’s too disturbed or not into the story, I know it needs more work. If fixing the story bothers me more than publishing it, time to scrap. Sometimes I have also called in beta readers or other editors, but my network of those is lacking these days. And my stories must always clear the alpha reader first.

I meant publish. But you‘re causing me to reflect. So far, it’s never occurred to me to scrap a story but if I keep at this, I can certainly imagine that could/ought to become a possible outcome.

 

[Djmac1031]

I meant publish. But you‘re causing me to reflect. So far, it’s never occurred to me to scrap a story but if I keep at this, I can certainly imagine that could/ought to become a possible outcome.

To follow up on my earlier comment, I almost scrapped my Nude Day story.

I struggled for weeks to commit to a direction, and once I finally did, I struggled more over whether I'd made the right choice.

I consulted with friends here, had them read some or all of it. Got candid feedback, but ultimately it was still up to me to decide if it was even working, let alone interesting.

I pushed through; finished it. Struggled with the ending, but eventually found it.

I edited so often I got sick of reading it.

Finally, I published the damn thing.

My Daughter The Nudist currently sits with a respectable 4.46 rating after 394 votes and 31.7K views.

16 comments, only one of them negative.

I have other stories with higher ratings, more views, more comments and praise.

But it certainly wasn't the failure I expected it to be.

Most readers seemed to enjoy it.

Good enough for me.

 

[AchtungNight]

I meant publish. But you‘re causing me to reflect. So far, it’s never occurred to me to scrap a story but if I keep at this, I can certainly imagine that could/ought to become a possible outcome.

I’ve scrapped plenty of stories. Some I’ve redrafted and revised before publication. It happens. Be ready.

 

[Victoria14xs]

You'll probably get a few different definitions in this thread. In general "beta reading" is a bit more subjective than "editing" and perhaps with less technical depth/expertise expected; in some settings "editor" might imply formal credentials. But "editor" covers a wide range of things, and on Literotica these terms are used informally and not always consistently. So it's generally better to be explicit about expectations rather than relying on a shared expectation about what "beta-read" or "editor" means.

FWIW, I posted a How-To on editing recently: https://literotica.com/s/editors-notes-changes

It's not intended as a pattern for every author-editor interaction, just as an example of how one particular collaboration worked, but I have a bit of discussion there about the kinds of things authors and editors/beta-readers might want to agree on up front.

Very helpful.
My first impression of your ‘how-to’ is that it’s applicable to more high-end writing. No, I don’t have a definition for ‘high-end’ but I guess I mean longer, more thoughtfully-crafted works as opposed to anything within my abilities. That said, even my 2k-5k wordcount efforts could be better, feel more “real”, more authentic, flow better and on and on.
Feel free to toot your own horn (if you choose to answer this at all): would you say the level of editing in your ‘how-to’ is common?

 

[John_Vandermeer]

Victoria, i get the impression a lot of folk here advocate for way more editing than a very sizable contingent of Lit authors (that dont hang out it AH) ever undertake. For me, if I tried to be so perfectionist, I would never publish. i am an 80/20 publisher. I feel 20% of work gets me 80% there, and i tend to release my stories seriously undercooked. Yet somebody still always loves them (and plenty hate them).

In any case, the point is to have fun, publish, and share with the world your unique talent. I actually have previously read a couple of your stories and I absolutely love them. No need to be hard on yourself. Then again, I am one of those avowed foot guys that can be disarmed in less than a second flat just by the skilful dangling of a pretty pair of pumps from a pretty pair of feet (hence the avatar). I do wish your stories got past the footplay, no matter how hot the footplay. So I am all for improvement. But my point is, you are starting from an awesome base. Dont even consider giving up! Or think you are not adding something “better writers” are not even addresing at all. Get better sure, but just keep publishing.

 

[JGittes]

I write long stories that I find in the editing process. I thought about detailing that process, but I don't want this post to get as long as most of my stories.

The single thing I've found that has helped bring the editing to an end is to print the story on paper for what I hope is the final edit. It's too easy to keep changing things on the keyboard.

I usually go through three printed runs. The first is a messy, major rewrite for plot and coherence. The second is the ruthless cutting of unnecessary words. The third is a minor tweak. I find that often as not, since it's on paper and I make the changes with a pencil, the change makes it worse and I can erase it. That's when I know to publish.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Very helpful.
My first impression of your ‘how-to’ is that it’s applicable to more high-end writing. No, I don’t have a definition for ‘high-end’ but I guess I mean longer, more thoughtfully-crafted works as opposed to anything within my abilities. That said, even my 2k-5k wordcount efforts could be better, feel more “real”, more authentic, flow better and on and on.
Feel free to toot your own horn (if you choose to answer this at all): would you say the level of editing in your ‘how-to’ is common?

It's definitely more story-focussed, less technical, than a lot of the editing I've done on stories here. That particular example is with two authors who already have a lot of stories under their belt, and I knew they were going to work on it a bit more after I'd looked at it, so I wasn't looking too much for minor technical stuff (excepting a few things I flagged because they might not get caught later).

 

[ElectricBlue]

I meant publish. But you‘re causing me to reflect. So far, it’s never occurred to me to scrap a story but if I keep at this, I can certainly imagine that could/ought to become a possible outcome.

I reckon you know a story isn't going anywhere within the first five-hundred words.

Most folk here seem to keep all their failed starts. I figure, why bother? If it's dead in the water today, it's hardly going to get legs tomorrow. I'll delete files without too much agony. If the idea was good enough, it'll pop up again later (but with me, they seldom do).

 

[AchtungNight]

My scrapped ideas sometimes come back. When I first decided to write a story about a religious celebrity, my villain was a shamer I had to put in metaphorical Hell. I first handled her by pointing out her hypocrisy and expecting her to stay dead. The story ended up scrapped because I did not appreciate the realism in my vision. Later, I revisited the story and revived the villain. I ultimately handled her in a similar way. See my story Counseling for the result. Yes, before readers ask, the villain did not seemingly get punished that badly at the end of Counseling. But consider this- is any conservative shamer comfortable when forced to confront the liberal diversity of our world? Nay, thee, I say.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I am a terrible tinkerer. I never feel like a story is ready, or finished. I keep going back, rewriting small sections...
Th person who edits my work, who I admire greatly gave me a wonderful piece of advice...
"At some point, you reach a point of diminishing return."
It took me a while to fully grasp.... Yes, I'm a little slow...
each time I returned to the well, it gets harder and harder to find improvements...

When you reach the point, improvements or changes don't stand out.... Publish...

Cagivagurl

 

[tantracuck]

My life experiences which have influenced my style, and writing experience, may differ from others so take my perspective with a big grain of salt. I usually try to publish by the third draft.

Most of my work is preparatory; I rarely if ever write spontaneously. Before I sit to start writing, I'll have my idea and flesh it out in my head. What the theme is, who the characters are, what the major events are going to be, how those events connect to each other and the theme, and how it resolves. I'll mull that over a while, then I'll block the story in my head or in document.

So, by the time I sit down to write the actual story, I'm really just writing prose to fit what I've already envisioned. If I get a flash of inspiration from it, I go with the flow, but generally I stick to the blocking I've already created for myself. From there, I do my proofreading, and if anything stands out to me while proofreading I'll revise. After that, once the work is clear of (unintended) grammatical and spelling errors, off to the pending queue it goes.

 

[Victoria14xs]

My life experiences which have influenced my style, and writing experience, may differ from others so take my perspective with a big grain of salt. I usually try to publish by the third draft.

Most of my work is preparatory; I rarely if ever write spontaneously. Before I sit to start writing, I'll have my idea and flesh it out in my head. What the theme is, who the characters are, what the major events are going to be, how those events connect to each other and the theme, and how it resolves. I'll mull that over a while, then I'll block the story in my head or in document.

So, by the time I sit down to write the actual story, I'm really just writing prose to fit what I've already envisioned. If I get a flash of inspiration from it, I go with the flow, but generally I stick to the blocking I've already created for myself. From there, I do my proofreading, and if anything stands out to me while proofreading I'll revise. After that, once the work is clear of (unintended) grammatical and spelling errors, off to the pending queue it goes.

Yours is probably the closest to what I’ve been doing. I roll the idea around over the course of a couple weeks, searching for the scenario, the circumstances, the snippet of dialog, that causes the dam to break (and the sex to happen). It absolutely has to feel like it could really happen (although I could be accused of kidding myself on that point).
I won’t write anything at all until/unless the idea pulls me to the keyboard. I‘m far too lazy and undisciplined to just sit down start writing. I suppose that’s why it’s taken me a year to produce 13 stories, all pretty short.
Anyways, I’m pretty comfortable with how I begin the process of writing something…just less so with how to bring the effort in for a landing.

I’m energized by many of the suggestions, some of which would have never occurred to me. Printing the story out - I’m going to try that. Using an app to read it back to me - for sure.
I do need to find someone willing to do the beta reader thing.

 

[alohadave]

My life experiences which have influenced my style, and writing experience, may differ from others so take my perspective with a big grain of salt. I usually try to publish by the third draft.

Most of my work is preparatory; I rarely if ever write spontaneously. Before I sit to start writing, I'll have my idea and flesh it out in my head. What the theme is, who the characters are, what the major events are going to be, how those events connect to each other and the theme, and how it resolves. I'll mull that over a while, then I'll block the story in my head or in document.

So, by the time I sit down to write the actual story, I'm really just writing prose to fit what I've already envisioned. If I get a flash of inspiration from it, I go with the flow, but generally I stick to the blocking I've already created for myself. From there, I do my proofreading, and if anything stands out to me while proofreading I'll revise. After that, once the work is clear of (unintended) grammatical and spelling errors, off to the pending queue it goes.

I write similarly. I usually have the story plotted out and scenes figured out before I start writing the story.

If I don't then I stare at the screen wondering what comes next.

I don't typically write a garbage or vomit draft, most of my editing is line editing or looking for inconsistencies in details. And I will generally do cleanup editing on previous sections when I don't feel motivated to write, but want to get something done. Writing sequentially helps with this.

 

[Victoria14xs]

I am a terrible tinkerer. I never feel like a story is ready, or finished. I keep going back, rewriting small sections...
Th person who edits my work, who I admire greatly gave me a wonderful piece of advice...
"At some point, you reach a point of diminishing return."
It took me a while to fully grasp.... Yes, I'm a little slow...
each time I returned to the well, it gets harder and harder to find improvements...

When you reach the point, improvements or changes don't stand out.... Publish...

Cagivagurl

I rather doubt you’re “slow.” If you are, then I’m right there with you.
Simple, clear advice - domo very much!

 

[EmilyMiller]

How do you know it’s time to pull the trigger?​

Employing your metaphor, I think I have a hair trigger.

Maybe that’s why I spend time posting edits to published stories.

I have little patience - I want my stuff out there ASAP.

Em

 

[Victoria14xs]

To follow up on my earlier comment, I almost scrapped my Nude Day story.

I struggled for weeks to commit to a direction, and once I finally did, I struggled more over whether I'd made the right choice.

I consulted with friends here, had them read some or all of it. Got candid feedback, but ultimately it was still up to me to decide if it was even working, let alone interesting.

I pushed through; finished it. Struggled with the ending, but eventually found it.

I edited so often I got sick of reading it.

Finally, I published the damn thing.

My Daughter The Nudist currently sits with a respectable 4.46 rating after 394 votes and 31.7K views.

16 comments, only one of them negative.

I have other stories with higher ratings, more views, more comments and praise.

But it certainly wasn't the failure I expected it to be.

Most readers seemed to enjoy it.

Good enough for me.

I enjoyed it too

 

[MillieDynamite]

When you are looking down the barrel of their gun and realize they are pulling their trigger, that's when you know, do it now! Now I should see what this thread is actually about.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Hello, all you vastly more experienced writer-folk…
I write what I suppose y’all would refer to as stroke stories. That said, I obsess over them, taking typically a couple weeks to write and rewrite each.
As I polish a story, I find myself thinking it’s ‘there,’ and mentally flirt with the notion of posting. But then I back off for no clearly-discernible reason and set it aside. This happens - I dunno - five, six times before I actually pull the trigger.
Do you have some better way of knowing? A metric? A firm process?

I’m sitting on one now, itching to post it. Hence the question…

When it's done, my editor returns it to me, I post it. I have no magic formula. When I'm somewhat satisfied, the editor or beta reader doesn't say this sucks, it's ready.

 

[Victoria14xs]

When you are looking down the barrel of their gun and realize they are pulling their trigger, that's when you know, do it now! Now I should see what this thread is actually about.

SillieMillieDynamite!

 

[Vintage_DM]

The opposite of how you know when brownies are done...

When they are all gone.

 

[Vintage_DM]

Hello, all you vastly more experienced writer-folk…
I write what I suppose y’all would refer to as stroke stories. That said, I obsess over them, taking typically a couple weeks to write and rewrite each.
As I polish a story, I find myself thinking it’s ‘there,’ and mentally flirt with the notion of posting. But then I back off for no clearly-discernible reason and set it aside. This happens - I dunno - five, six times before I actually pull the trigger.
Do you have some better way of knowing? A metric? A firm process?

I’m sitting on one now, itching to post it. Hence the question…

I believe it was Henry Ford that was supposed to have said --- There comes a time in the life of every project to shoot the engineers and go into production. When is a story ready to post? When you ,,, yes you the author feel satisfied with what you have down.

 

[Zootonius]

The perfect is the enemy of the good. There will always be that nagging feeling that it could be a little bit better, or that you can't possibly have found every typo, but at some point you have to just send it out into the world. There's no formula, no certain process. Every "submit" is a leap of faith.

Or to misuse the duke of Wellington's quote, publish and be damned.