Horrified by submission.

[Ginlover]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gentold View Post
A submissive wins over the world , Gandhi,Mandela and Martin were submissives who appealed to the world to be good and made our lives better ,

Posted by Bramblethorn
I would have characterised these three as the opposite of submissive. They're famous for challenging unjust laws, not for submitting to them. None of those movements succeeded solely by asking nicely and appealing to people's good nature; all of them relied on making a great deal of trouble for their oppressors with strikes, marches, boycotts, etc. etc.

Gandhi and MLK were committed to non-violence (not Mandela), but that's a different thing.

The above was posted in the Lessons learned thread and really sets up my question.

I personally believe a s-type can still be a world changer. Being submissive to a partner in a dynamic doesn’t stop them running a business or being an activist or, damn it, a world leader. Again just my view but if the dynamics means the D-type does not dominate agreed aspects of the s-type’s life (Er like running a country) I can’t see this not being a dynamic.

But that’s not my question. Have any s-types struggled to accept who they are?

I’ve read some beautiful and brutally honest accounts from D-types being horrified for enjoying dominating in their early exploration - breaking the social acceptable norms they have had ingrained in them - no it’s not abuse or rape it’s a consensual act.

I have not read any accounts of s-types being disgusted with their submissive needs. I’m trying to describe a kinda internal war of being a world changer while their body and mind enjoys the exchange of power by submitting.

Stereotypical top executive who craves submission is well understood especially male sub to Domme. Less discussed is the female s-type, dominate in her field but craving the need to submit to a partner.

Now remove the craving and need words. Has any s-types experienced a horror and disgust with themselves for enjoying submitting?

 

[Jada59]

I have not but some are into humiliation. I would think that is along the lines of what you're talking about.

 

[twister947]

I'm a submissive male, and wish I weren't, because it is so marginalizing; there simply aren't a corresponding number of dominant women. My opportunities are few.

But, horrified? Not at all.

 

[Ginlover]

I'm a submissive male, and wish I weren't, because it is so marginalizing; there simply aren't a corresponding number of dominant women. My opportunities are few.

But, horrified? Not at all.

Good point, wishing you weren’t due to the perception and logistics, thank you for also clarifying you might wish you weren’t but you also accept it is what you like and who you are.

I’m a very dominate woman and I would describe my issue as I’m disgusted by how much I enjoy submitting (note I still can’t use the words; need to submit). It is so completely against the image I have of myself and how others perceive me. Before anyone suggests it, yes I have tried the D thing and technically I can do it with my eyes closed, but I am 100% a service top as I get no genuine pleasure other than knowing I’ve made the bottom happy. Yeah, I know that’s a big part of it but i don’t believe that’s enough for a D-type, they should get some enjoyment from dominating. For example be aroused by the whimpers, the look in the s-type’s eyes, the feel of the flogger as it counter balances in their hand before they swing it.

 

[seela]

I have not but some are into humiliation. I would think that is along the lines of what you're talking about.

I'm really into humiliation, but it has zero to do with being ashamed let alone horrified by my own submissiveness.

Never had any significant problems just being submissive. Except for a brief moment when I first figured out that I am and need this also in other areas of life, not only in bedroom. That happened around the same time I was first figuring out feminism and it didn't seem to add up.

But I got over it pretty fast when I realized that me being submissive doesn't mean I expect all other women to be the same. What I do to get my rocks off and be happy doesn't mean it's the same thing everyone else should do, it's just me enjoying me-mess in ways that absolutely do not harm or hinder anybody else. And that's kinda one aspect of feminism, although I didn't figure that out until later.

 

[Scareltt]

I’m sorry you’re having a difficult time.

I'm a submissive male, and wish I weren't, because it is so marginalizing; there simply aren't a corresponding number of dominant women. My opportunities are few.

But, horrified? Not at all.

One of the things “submissive” people should think about, is the amount of work that goes into being the Dominant. If they would approach their relationships from more of a what can I do to help angle they might see better results.

Ask yourself: “what can I do to make whoever’s day/life easer.” Then do that.

When my husband and I made our changes in our marriage it was overwhelming for me. The main reason for that was he was trying to top from the bottom. Once I put the ball back in his court and said. “You tell me exactly what you’re going to do for me.” That I began to really figure this out.

 

[littlebirdjoy]

Fantastic thread. Truly. I had some moral issues with my needs, wants, and desires at first. I was devoutly religious and originally my husband confessed he needed me to Domme him. ... it did not go well. In the process I discovered the bits of me that had never made sense finally did. After my divorce the first person I confided in was really traumatic for me. I had been FINE until my very best friend who I'd been fighting feelings for for 5 years was completely taken aback and had a volatile reaction. You bet I faced huge shame and guilt. I do not consider this shame or horror at myself as it wasnt originally self inflicted.

Have there been kinks that I have found I immensely enjoy or that turn me on that I'm horrified at? Yes. Absolutely.

Did I battle the parts of me that have always been the one taking care of my family since I was 8? Yes. It is STILL hard. I have to stop and think often... but I'm not at all horrified. I think if I were raised in a family that was staunchly matriarchal I might have been.

Thank you for this topic!

 

[Scareltt]

Thank you.:

Fantastic thread. Truly. I had some moral issues with my needs, wants, and desires at first. I was devoutly religious and originally my husband confessed he needed me to Domme him. ... it did not go well. In the process I discovered the bits of me that had never made sense finally did. After my divorce the first person I confided in was really traumatic for me. I had been FINE until my very best friend who I'd been fighting feelings for for 5 years was completely taken aback and had a volatile reaction. You bet I faced huge shame and guilt. I do not consider this shame or horror at myself as it wasnt originally self inflicted.

Have there been kinks that I have found I immensely enjoy or that turn me on that I'm horrified at? Yes. Absolutely.

Did I battle the parts of me that have always been the one taking care of my family since I was 8? Yes. It is STILL hard. I have to stop and think often... but I'm not at all horrified. I think if I were raised in a family that was staunchly matriarchal I might have been.

Thank you for this topic!

Thank you for your post. It’s not easy to admit that to yourself. Let alone someone else.

 

[Ginlover]

littlebirdjoy thank you too for such an honest reply. I’ve asked this question a lot and always feel very isolated by my thoughts. The generic reply is “well you’re not submissive then, because I just knew once I understood it was me.” As if me questioning and being in conflict with myself means I can’t enjoy submission.

seela I appreciate the way you’ve replied, that although only brief you did consider the abdominally of feminism and submission and how you resolved that in your own mind.

Scareltt I love your question to your husband and it is a question I think many people new to D/s on both sides of the slash forget - what does the dominate get out of the dynamic ? Because in reality getting ‘given’ submission isn’t really enough of a single reason to take responsibility for someone else over the course of an ongoing developing and deepening dynamic.
I like tea and someone can tell me what a great mug of tea they make but until the mug is in my hand and I’m sipping the delicious drink and feeling myself relax and calm I don’t truly ‘enjoy’ that person’s great tea making skills.

 

[littlebirdjoy]

Thank you for your post. It’s not easy to admit that to yourself. Let alone someone else.

Thank you. I am grateful.
Your post really made me smile as well.
"One of the things “submissive” people should think about, is the amount of work that goes into being the Dominant. If they would approach their relationships from more of a what can I do to help angle they might see better results.

Ask yourself: “what can I do to make whoever’s day/life easer.” Then do that."
The irony is this is a question I've asked every single day of my life in every relationship I've ever been since I was maybe 20 and discovered this part of myself. i literally ask every single day (usually in the first conversation of the day, and maybe later on too) "Is there anything i can do to make your day better or easier?" If I'm living with my Person I will usually ask "is there anything that needs doing? Is there anything I've forgotten?

I think being consciously grateful for the amount of work both physical and emotional that goes into it is definitely important. There was a thread lurking around here at one point listing ways people help their dominant that were not sexual or even D/s specific. I'll try to track it down later.

 

[littlebirdjoy]

"Because in reality getting ‘given’ submission isn’t really enough of a single reason to take responsibility for someone else over the course of an ongoing developing and deepening dynamic."
This is EXACTLY what I'm struggling with right now. 100% this. I find it really hard to feel like i do enough to warrant or offset the responsibility. I feel a lot of guilt over it. It causes me to try and tell him constantly "you dont have to X" like last night we have been talking houses and future... and we were looking at finances. It started as a comment about dinner out and how expensive it has gotten and that it will be a whole nother ballgame with 5 not 2 or 3. (He takes care of an ex who is significantly older and his live in girlfriend/bottom) .... i was trying to downplay and say how it wasnt necessary etc. He had to set me straight that he does not shy from the responsibility. he is not afraid of it. it is not daunting or a burden. That is something I'm really struggling with.


"I like tea and someone can tell me what a great mug of tea they make but until the mug is in my hand and I’m sipping the delicious drink and feeling myself relax and calm I don’t truly ‘enjoy’ that person’s great tea making skills."
Wow. Fantastic metaphor. I'm going to have to dwell on that one a while. Thank you!

 

[cascadiabound]

More along the lines of seela. I’m submissive sexually, and a vocal feminist, as well as an in charge caretaker.
I did struggle with it on paper. Once I had in the flesh submission I was able to balance it all out as simply another facet of myself.

This is the struggle I had. To embrace my sexual and relationship needs within the context of being a competent take charge feminist in every other aspect of my life. It was difficult for me to reconcile my feminism with the fact that I am a sub. It helped me to be in conversation with people here, find writings of other submissive feminists and discover I was not alone.

 

[cascadiabound]

You were actually a huge help to me, along with Spun Things. I remember wanting to badly to keep proclaiming I was both feminist and sub, and both of you treated it seriously, but seemed to take it in stride.

Glad to have been of help.

 

[Ginlover]

Faralicious and cascadiabound did it take you long to resolve the internal conflict? And does it still raise its head with you now you’ve accepted you’re a submissive and feminist ?

 

[Sylvies]

Great question, I enjoyed reading everyone's responses. I've definitely struggled, and continue to. It's kind of difficult to admit - but I've felt horror and disgust at my desires and pleasure in submission. I well remember when I refused to accept the 'submissive' label, but ... I've since got to a place where I accept that it describes my sexuality well. When I was with my last Dom he made me feel good about being submissive, but alone, it's much harder to reconcile, at this point if I could flick a switch and turn it off I probably would.

 

[Ginlover]

Great question, I enjoyed reading everyone's responses. I've definitely struggled, and continue to. It's kind of difficult to admit - but I've felt horror and disgust at my desires and pleasure in submission. I well remember when I refused to accept the 'submissive' label, but ... I've since got to a place where I accept that it describes my sexuality well. When I was with my last Dom he made me feel good about being submissive, but alone, it's much harder to reconcile, at this point if I could flick a switch and turn it off I probably would.

OMG I want to hug you. The refusal to accept a label is me through and through. You are the second person to say in a dynamic it’s easier. I understand that, for me when I’m with a partner it’s just how I am without even knowledge of labels. It was kink friends listening to details about my “vanilla” relationships who said go explore BDSM because you are in a power exchange and doing kink without actually talking or consenting. With naive eyes I stumble into BDSM and suddenly realised I was submissive - but no. That’s not me. How can this be true.

I’ve got to the point I realise I gaily shove my submission at a partner with no consent discussion or framework then get surprised and hurt when they abuse that unrequested control.

I feeel like I’m in an AA style meeting and trying to generate the courage to stand up and admit to myself and the room I get off on being submissive. Like it would be the start of the journey learning to control my submissive tendencies.

 

[Sylvies]

I toootally get what you are saying.
Submission - I'm like a moth to a flame .... drawn to it, can't stop it, love it so.
However, in the joy of it all my self control goes right out the window, my brain detatches and oh man that can make me cross with myself! Denial of the label was a way of coping and with and attempting to control the complicated interplay of thoughts and feelings submission presented me with I guess.
At present I acknowledge the truth of my submission, and I know that it gives me some good positive personal characteristics, however I remain quietly ashamed by it too, especially some of the things it means I get off on... Lol.
I would feel the same apprehension as you in that 'AA meeting'!
I remember saying to my Dom once - that I could see he felt confident and proud in his label, in a way that I couldn't imagine feeling about mine.

 

[Scareltt]

We probably all struggle..

Dealing with the duality of it all isn’t easy.

Being a feminist and also having the desire to be submissive shouldn’t make us feel less like feminists, or less like women.

 

[littlebirdjoy]

OMG I want to hug you. The refusal to accept a label is me through and through. You are the second person to say in a dynamic it’s easier. I understand that, for me when I’m with a partner it’s just how I am without even knowledge of labels. It was kink friends listening to details about my “vanilla” relationships who said go explore BDSM because you are in a power exchange and doing kink without actually talking or consenting. With naive eyes I stumble into BDSM and suddenly realised I was submissive - but no. That’s not me. How can this be true.

I’ve got to the point I realise I gaily shove my submission at a partner with no consent discussion or framework then get surprised and hurt when they abuse that unrequested control.

I feeel like I’m in an AA style meeting and trying to generate the courage to stand up and admit to myself and the room I get off on being submissive. Like it would be the start of the journey learning to control my submissive tendencies.

Yes. This is exactly what I meant about all the puzzle pieces and oddities about who I am finally made sense when my exhusband introduced me to BDSM.
This is also exactly why I used to say to my best friend "you have been my Sir for 14 years, we just didn't know it." and it's true. He was. Hell, to a degree he probably always will be. It would be HARD for him to throw a caution flag my way and me not take a hard look at what he is signaling. This is part of why I have to limit the things we discuss in relation to my relationships.

I was always a submissive in relationships... in every single relationship I've ever been in. period. This is how i love. This is me. I think that's why it WASNT hard for me to accept the label, because once I saw it, i couldn't unsee it.

It has been harder for me to accept other labels: "emotional massochist" for one... and even to accept myself as a sexual creature despite being grey romantic asexual. I spent YEARS basically explaining i get off on my partner getting off... but outside that please, don't waste your time.

Everything you are saying about "then get surprised and hurt when they abuse that unrequested control." This... was the root of my start of writing here. The original topic I ever posted was "Doormat; by product of intent or approach." It was trying to help me deal with the fact that my "vanilla" relationships seem to go BADLY sideways. A great and wonderful guy will end up completely taking advantage of me and taking me for granted. I eventually become invisible. he no longer sees the things I do for him.... and I kept saying WHY? Why does this happen. I came to the personal belief that i NEED a partner who is a strong and responsible dominant in order to know what to do with me (and himself) so that doesnt happen.

 

[littlebirdjoy]

Dealing with the duality of it all isn’t easy.

Being a feminist and also having the desire to be submissive shouldn’t make us feel less like feminists, or less like women.

For me, it is the time when I feel MOST feminine (well outside of when I'm pregnant then I sincerely feel like a feminine gooddess LOL. I'm not taking in a religious sense, but honestly, i never feel more completely sexy and awesome then when I'm pregnant. ihavenoideawhy.

 

[Scareltt]

Positive..

For me, it is the time when I feel MOST feminine (well outside of when I'm pregnant then I sincerely feel like a feminine gooddess LOL. I'm not taking in a religious sense, but honestly, i never feel more completely sexy and awesome then when I'm pregnant. ihavenoideawhy.

I love your positive energy!

 

[cookiecat]

I've involved in bdsm for about 16-17 years.

Over time, I realized thinking of myself as submissive filled up a part of me that was missing. It took about 5 years to understand that being submissive did not equal weak, timid, passive. I was raised knowing I could do anything, be anything, no man was better than me because -- penis. I was single for a long time and did all the stuff on my own. How could I say I was ready to hand that over to someone else?

Did I just want to be a "bedroom" submissive or did I want more?

I wanted more - I wanted a relationship where my partner would be Dominant and I would submit to him.

I find no issues with being a feminist, being a kick ass manager, being in control of myself, my life AND thinking of myself as submissive to my partner. And, actually, submissive in most aspects of my life. Being submissive tempers my loud, spontaneous, chaotic self. It balances out the aggressive side of me. Thinking of myself as submissive to not just my partner, but other people in my life, helps me to slow down, listen more, be gentler.

There are varying degrees of submission. But aren't there varying degrees of all aspects of ourselves? I'm not always a large, in charge woman. Just as I'm not always submissive. There are times and places. It ebbs and flows.

I will say due to a large life change that pulled the rug out from under me, I question some of the things about which I was so certain. Even as I question what I want for myself in the future, I do know submission is a part of me. It makes me feel centered. Softer. Without submission, I feel different. Not worse or something negative, just different.

I'm rambling. Yeah, I struggled with accepting I was submissive because the word seemed BAD. Negative. Wallflower and weak.

It is not. It is definitely a positive part of who I am, whether I have a Dominant partner or I'm single.

 

[PaxNurgle]

I have wrestled my submissive tenancies and outright kinks for a long time. Rather than "horrified" by it, lets just say it has caused me a lot of pain. I have been trying to wean myself of those type of thoughts, to become more "vanilla" so to speak.

For a number of reasons. I have found that even on this site, being submissive and male is not nearly as well accepted as being submissive and female- sub-males get a lot of flack, and not a lot of compassion. Even on this site, and sadly, even among some open to BDSM. And yes, the opportunities for any kind of mutually satisfying relationship, based on kink and male submission are very low, comparatively speaking. Some of my kink thoughts/fantasies are not really healthy, either- I don't really like to talk about them.

But I have found that when I have sought to fulfill these fantasies in real life, on the very rare occasion I do meet a partner into this kind of thing- these are professionals, and their only interest in dominating men is nothing beyond monetary. They might fulfill some of your desires to submit, but ultimately all they are interested in is financial submission. So if that is all there is to female domination/male submission; that is the reality I have experienced, and compared to fantasy, the realityof really isn't my thing. (lets just say I'm not Bill Gates or Joe Amazon) So it's not a "horrified" thing as much as it is shame, and the sad realization that these kind of kinks, and submission, are really not condusive to the long term and loving relationship I really want.

 

[cookiecat]

I have wrestled my submissive tenancies and outright kinks for a long time. Rather than "horrified" by it, lets just say it has caused me a lot of pain. I have been trying to wean myself of those type of thoughts, to become more "vanilla" so to speak.

For a number of reasons. I have found that even on this site, being submissive and male is not nearly as well accepted as being submissive and female- sub-males get a lot of flack, and not a lot of compassion. Even on this site, and sadly, even among some open to BDSM. And yes, the opportunities for any kind of mutually satisfying relationship, based on kink and male submission are very low, comparatively speaking. Some of my kink thoughts/fantasies are not really healthy, either- I don't really like to talk about them.

But I have found that when I have sought to fulfill these fantasies in real life, on the very rare occasion I do meet a partner into this kind of thing- these are professionals, and their only interest in dominating men is nothing beyond monetary. They might fulfill some of your desires to submit, but ultimately all they are interested in is financial submission. So if that is all there is to female domination/male submission; that is the reality I have experienced, and compared to fantasy, the realityof really isn't my thing. (lets just say I'm not Bill Gates or Joe Amazon) So it's not a "horrified" thing as much as it is shame, and the sad realization that these kind of kinks, and submission, are really not condusive to the long term and loving relationship I really want.

It's a bummer to feel shame around desires that should be enjoyed. What a drag you've felt that here.

I was pretty active in the local kink community and have several dominant women friends. It's true there aren't as many female dominants as male. But they're out there. They've had a tough time finding male submissives who were genuine about having a relationship vs just getting off.

Relationships are tough enough. Throw in the D/s part and it definitely gets trickier.

 

[littlebirdjoy]

I have wrestled my submissive tenancies and outright kinks for a long time. Rather than "horrified" by it, lets just say it has caused me a lot of pain. I have been trying to wean myself of those type of thoughts, to become more "vanilla" so to speak.

For a number of reasons. I have found that even on this site, being submissive and male is not nearly as well accepted as being submissive and female- sub-males get a lot of flack, and not a lot of compassion. Even on this site, and sadly, even among some open to BDSM. And yes, the opportunities for any kind of mutually satisfying relationship, based on kink and male submission are very low, comparatively speaking. Some of my kink thoughts/fantasies are not really healthy, either- I don't really like to talk about them.

But I have found that when I have sought to fulfill these fantasies in real life, on the very rare occasion I do meet a partner into this kind of thing- these are professionals, and their only interest in dominating men is nothing beyond monetary. They might fulfill some of your desires to submit, but ultimately all they are interested in is financial submission. So if that is all there is to female domination/male submission; that is the reality I have experienced, and compared to fantasy, the realityof really isn't my thing. (lets just say I'm not Bill Gates or Joe Amazon) So it's not a "horrified" thing as much as it is shame, and the sad realization that these kind of kinks, and submission, are really not condusive to the long term and loving relationship I really want.

Pax, I'm sorry this has been the case for you here. I truly am. There is a different site that might suit you better for genuine conversation and learning as well as looking for real lasting relationships, but the threshold for seriousness is a bit higher too. i have the pleasure of being friends with quite a few very awesome and genuine Domme and switch ladies over there. I'm not sure how you would gel with any of them, but the ratio is certainly higher than here. Findom is not at all tolerated there, and no one that i've ever met there would even consider it. period. If you would like the site and a couple of tips on how to get started there feel free to PM.

P.S. if you are going to be taken seriously and really find someone it would be a matter of being willing to get involved in the discussions for a few months and doing some writing... which you seem pretty good with. I think you would fit in once you get over the culture difference compared to here.

~Faithfully His,
Angie