Healthcare by Executive Order

[adrina]

Whatever dude. Your history is there.

Unlike mine. I've not said boo on DACA or my thoughts on presidency by EO. The fact remains that Obama averaged less EO's than any president since Cleveland. You're full of shit.

Get your facts straight.

So again, healthcare by EO... okay by Trump but when Obama does it, it's an illegal miscarriage of justice.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

If my history is their produce it.


But basically, I just nailed you to the wall. It's either one, or the other, as I pointed out.


You have either been here long enough to "know" my history, or you are just winging it and making it up as you go along, just like you are manufacturing this serious charge of Trump using massive EO overreach to rule health care.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Again, where's the cite?

 

[jaF0]

I don't have a problem with cross state sales of policies, but they need to conform to the customer's/patient's state rules. And remember, interstate commerce put them in Federal areas which they may not like when we get a sensible government back.

 

[adrina]

Since apparently this is going to turn into a referendum on Obama's use of the EO, let's go ahead and put in a reference.

source

At 35 per year average, that's less than Bush. I'm sure you frothed at the mouth about the precedent that Bush was setting right?

In terms of subject matter, Obama’s executive orders generally were comparable to those of his recent predecessors, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of National Archives data. Obama, Bush and Bill Clinton, for instance, all used executive orders most frequently to make changes related to government commissions, boards or committees. The next most frequent category for all three presidents relates to government agencies and employees.

The rabid knee jerk reactionary responses to condemn and vilify Obama have been and continue to be based in the perceptions of evil instead of the actuality of evil.

But please continue to tell us just how much Obama abused the EO and how it is all on him as a precedent setter.

 

[adrina]

I don't have a problem with cross state sales of policies, but they need to conform to the customer's/patient's state rules. And remember, interstate commerce put them in Federal areas which they may not like when we get a sensible government back.

The problem is that unfortunately the home state of the company is the one that determines the regulations.

I don't have much hope of getting a sensible government back until gerrymandering has been put back in check.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

lol


From EO to gerrymandering...





Can racism be far behind???

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I already said that you would go back to Bush to defend Obama...



How good am I???

 

[adrina]

I just proved you're full of shit and you deflect.

You are nothing but a mouth filled with bile. No substance.

 

[adrina]

source

click for graph - the sucker stretches the page.

Moreover, the early executive actions that Obama signed in 2009 generally enjoyed wider public support than Trump’s controversial policies.

Obama’s first motion to tighten ethics rules for government officials was approved by 76% of US adults according to a Gallup poll, and his next order to limit interrogation techniques on prisoners scored 74%.

By far his most opposed action was to order the closure of Guantanamo Bay, which was approved by just 44%.

However, Trump’s executive orders have been even less popular. His infamous travel ban was supported by only 42% of the population, while his proposed wall along the Mexican border was approved by just 38%.

But please keep dismissing history.

It is, of course, all Obama's fault.

Do you have any idea how irrational and stupid you sound?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

How many times did the SCOTUS strike down Obama's EOs?



So, if as you are trying to claim (and cannot prove), I ever did say that what he was doing was illegal, was I even wrong?

 

[Freudian_Slit]

Woah. AJ is massively triggered this morning.

Trouble at home? Terminal health issues? Probably it's just frustration with the dementia...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Oh, lol...,



She's back to arguing by pictures and graphs...

 

[adrina]

How many times did the SCOTUS strike down Obama's EOs?



So, if as you are trying to claim (and cannot prove), I ever did say that what he was doing was illegal, was I even wrong?

Like the travel ban ones by Trump?

Woah. AJ is massively triggered this morning.

Trouble at home? Terminal health issues? Probably it's just frustration with the dementia...

Something man. Multiple responses to the same post, and frothing at the mouth.

He's got something going on. Even for him, this is a bit much.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

His travel ban has been upheld by the SCOTUS.


Are you done comparing quantity?


Because let us talk about quality. Of all of those numerous Bush EOs, how many of them were declared to be end runs around Congress, because that is exactly what Obama did, he declared, if Congress won't do my bidding, then I will do it by pen and phone. That's what DACA was, an end run around Congress and as I stated before, the whole time that Obama was ruling by EO, I kept saying, be careful of that which you are currently supporting.

So now, Trump is using the power of the executive to roll back the EOs of the former administration and you're upset about the volume and direction of his EOs.

Well, suck it up buttercup because no one here is going to get upset that Trump is doing what your guy did unless that person is still pissed at their party's failure to communicate thinking that Hillary's election was a foregone conclusion and that Democrats never had to worry about the tables being turned....

 

[EternalFantasies]

You must be gazing into a mirror...

The stupid is so deep, the mirror isn't capable to reflect it.

 

[EternalFantasies]

And yep. Eventually, as we said from the get go: the circuit court was wrong, travel ban was legal and upheld.

I remember making a bet placing thread with a poll...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

*chuckle*

 

[adrina]

You do live in the anti-obama anti-clinton bubble all the time don't you. I would have much preferred our legislative leaders to have actually had a policy that wasn't just saying no to Obama regardless of what he proposed. I would have preferred Obama to have a governing body that was willing to govern. I wasn't thrilled with governance by EO.

Yes this supreme court that was stacked by just say no McConnell so that Republicans could legislate From the Bench. And it wasn't limited to scotus. They have done it at every opportunity they had.

The Republicans are at the root of this problem. They act like whiny little children because they didn't get their way and their whole job according to them for 8 years was to ensure that nothing got done even if it was at the expense of the American public.

But to you and the Republicans it's just more anti-obama ideology regardless of who it hurts. And you want to continue to spout off this hate and vitriol as if Obama is the ultimate big bad but the reality is he was just another president.

 

[TalkRadio]

Obamacare premiums will be officially unaffordable for many in 2018

Fucking what?



Yeah sure. Cuz EO's are so stable.

Christ on a cracker. He rails against EO's but here he is signing a ridiculous number of them and putting healthcare for the US at the whims and instabilities of an EO.

DACA anyone?

Obamacare....insurance premiums equal to or greater than a monthly mortgage payment & annual family deductibles equal to or greater than the cost of a used car.

An analysis of health insurance costs conducted by eHealth finds that projected rate increases for 2018 health insurance plans would make coverage unaffordable for many, according to the rules of the Affordable Care Act (the ACA or Obamacare). eHealth’s analysis shows that projected costs for 2018 health insurance plans would be officially unaffordable for 29% of individuals and 54% of families who bought their health insurance at eHealth during the 2017 open enrollment period.

The ACA deems health insurance to be unaffordable if it costs more than 8.13% of a person’s modified adjusted gross income (MAGI or household income) to pay for the lowest cost plan available. In areas of the country where the health insurance available through government-run marketplaces does not meet this affordability requirement, individuals and families can qualify for an exemption from Obamacare’s individual mandate (the individual shared responsibility tax penalty).

For its analysis, eHealth looked at quoted health insurance premiums for the lowest cost bronze-level health insurance plan across all 50 states during the 2017 open enrollment period, then added 28% to the these figures to estimate costs for 2018. This percentage increase is based on estimates published by Oliver Wyman Health, which projected that rate increases would range from 28% to 40% for 2018.

https://resources.ehealthinsurance....emiums-will-officially-unaffordable-many-2018

 

[EternalFantasies]

Yes, it's not about the law; it's a supreme court stacking. Trump bought everyone! :thumpsup:

And healthcare should be solved with a congress magic wand, coupled with banking strategy.

Not a Trump doing all sorts of unconventional stuff and forcing it down everyone's (congress) throats.

Wait.. wait.. i think it's not your stupidity.. it's my crazy acting up.

Thank God.

 

[adrina]

Those who fail to recognize context will forever live in their bubble.

There was a question earlier about controversial EO's.

source

President George W. Bush issued several controversial executive orders surrounding the gathering of intelligence in the war on terror. Arguably the most controversial was a secret executive order he signed in 2002, authorizing the National Security Agency (NSA) to eavesdrop without a warrant on phone calls made by U.S. citizens and others living in the United States. The NSA had previously been limited exclusively to intelligence gathering operations outside of the country [source: Risen]. Critics of Bush's executive order accuse the NSA of conducting unconstitutional searches under the president's authorization. The Bush administration defended the secret program as necessary to root out homegrown terrorist plots. The 9/11 attackers, after all, had lived in the U.S. while making the final preparation for their hijacking plot.

George W. Bush’s 2001 order restricting public access to the papers of former presidents, and his 2008 order directing federal agencies to ignore future budget earmarks that lawmakers don’t vote on and include in legislation that passes.

In context (you know, that little thing)

In the spring of 2012, President Obama launched an aggressive campaign of executive orders to combat what he viewed as an intractable Congress. Since Congress refused to vote on legislation that would forward the Obama administration's policies on the economy, job creation, education, energy and foreign policy, the president and his advisers decided to do as much as could be done without Congress' help at all [source: Savage]. The campaign, called "We Can't Wait," has included tougher regulation of greenhouse gas emissions, a revamped deportation policy, and better education and employment options for returning troops [source: Rosenthal]. The president has received sharp criticism for flexing his executive muscle, but even his critics acknowledge that Obama is far from the first president to wield executive orders as a political weapon.

But of course, because it's Obama, he's the one and the only one responsible. He's the one and only one to blame. He is, of course, the root of all the problems we have and of course if it isn't him, it's Clinton.

So, healthcare by EO is a-okay with the conservatives and republicans because... Obama! And if not Obama, then... Clinton.

Good luck with that.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

No.


You are wrong.


Trump has done nothing new or unique.


But it is at least nice watching you finally try to cherry-pick an argument after the fact.





The research should have come first, dumbass...

 

[adrina]

Obamacare....insurance premiums equal to or greater than a monthly mortgage payment & annual family deductibles equal to or greater than the cost of a used car.


https://resources.ehealthinsurance....emiums-will-officially-unaffordable-many-2018

And please tell me how Trump's and the republican's brain child of opening up state lines will bring prices down. Especially considering that even when they are able to, insurance companies don't want to - given the cost and logistical difficulties of out of state networks.

There are fixes that can be applied to the ACA - which were being discussed in committee until Graham Cassidy decided to push forth with their now failed attempt. The reality is that until they look at price controls - like allowing the government to negotiate drug prices - we are going to have out of control costs in a for profit system.

 

[adrina]

The research should have come first, dumbass...

Irony.