Generational differences in perspective

[Kumquatqueen]

Didn't that come up on the forum recently? I noted that you had used the technically correct phrasing despite never having a classical education myself.

It's like when I get three questions in a row on QI and then realize its a repeat.

Can't recall, but I knew someone would notice!

 

[StillStunned]

Opinions differ on this, but it is true that a certain type of person feels smug about this.

Where do opinions differ? On the meaning? Because I can tell you, "hoi" means "the" here.

However, because I'm not That Kind of Person, I'll refrain from smugly pointing out that "polloi" actually means "many", not strictly speaking "people". Related, if I'm not mistaken, to poly- in modern English.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Where do opinions differ? On the meaning? Because I can tell you, "hoi" means "the" here.

However, because I'm not That Kind of Person, I'll refrain from smugly pointing out that "polloi" actually means "many", not strictly speaking "people". Related, if I'm not mistaken, to poly- in modern English.

Hoi means the in Greek, it means nothing in English. The majority view is that the hoi polloi is fine, indeed preferred. I can find multiple uses of this formulation by esteemed authors, dating back to the 1700s. It’s the same as the majority view being that octopodes is only used by those with a nasty classics kink.

Emily

 

[StillStunned]

Hoi means the in Greek, it means nothing in English. The majority view is that the hoi polloi is fine, indeed preferred. I can find multiple uses of this formulation by esteemed authors, dating back to the 1700s. It’s the same as the majority view being that octopodes is only used by those with a nasty classics kink.

Emily

I resent that! I don't have a nasty classics kink. Nothing about Ancient Greek arouses me, nor does it make my blood surge, or make me moan and tremble in anticipation, or flood my mind with images of painted vases, or... Wait, what were we talking about?

 

[EmilyMiller]

I resent that! I don't have a nasty classics kink. Nothing about Ancient Greek arouses me, nor does it make my blood surge, or make me moan and tremble in anticipation, or flood my mind with images of painted vases, or... Wait, what were we talking about?

You’re so funny

 

[djrip]

Hoi means the in Greek, it means nothing in English. The majority view is that the hoi polloi is fine, indeed preferred. I can find multiple uses of this formulation by esteemed authors, dating back to the 1700s. It’s the same as the majority view being that octopodes is only used by those with a nasty classics kink.

Emily

So it's like the ATM machine.

 

[EmilyMiller]

So it's like the ATM machine.

Or the PIN number…

 

[MillieDynamite]

 

[AlexBailey]

One of the most blatant examples of perspectives changing over recent generations:

It’s so fucking cringy for so many reasons but still a beloved classic.

 

[EmilyMiller]

One of the most blatant examples of perspectives changing over recent generations:

It’s so fucking cringy for so many reasons but still a beloved classic.

I’ve noticed when I watch Disney with a child I know, like 6 out of 10 of the movies have a “we’re so sorry” card at the beginning.

I guess that’s probably what society was like back then, or do I have that wrong?

Emily

 

[AlexBailey]

I’ve noticed when I watch Disney with a child I know, like 6 out of 10 of the movies have a “we’re so sorry” card at the beginning.

I guess that’s probably what society was like back then, or do I have that wrong?

Emily

I didn’t realize how offensive so many classic stories and movies are until I pulled them out to watch with my kids when they were little - they’re young adults now.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Or the PIN number…

Yes, I use my PIN number at the ATM machine just like the rest of the hoi polloi...

 

[AlexBailey]

Cultural changes don’t only go in one direction.

This scene from Star Trek IV (1986) was almost prophetic at the time.

 

[TheRedChamber]

One of the most blatant examples of perspectives changing over recent generations:
It’s so fucking cringy for so many reasons but still a beloved classic.

I don't know. I'm part of the old generation (not 1950s old though), I've never seen that before and...I'm not seeing it as particularly classic even from a musical point of view. It's not like, say, the Mikado where the music is good enough to put up with the more 'unfortunate' aspects of it.

 

[TheRedChamber]

 

[AlexBailey]

I don't know. I'm part of the old generation (not 1950s old though), I've never seen that before and...I'm not seeing it as particularly classic even from a musical point of view. It's not like, say, the Mikado where the music is good enough to put up with the more 'unfortunate' aspects of it.

How about Sixteen Going On Seventeen from The Sound of Music?

Not as cringy as What Makes the Red Man Red, but still…

 

[TheRedChamber]

How about Sixteen Going On Seventeen from The Sound of Music?

Not as cringy as What Makes the Red Man Red, but still…

I'm not sure I see a problem with this. (I'm sure Laurel does). But then I come from a country where the age of consent is sixteen and I've noticed an upsurge recently in tutting about how 'underage' relationships are portrayed in media, even or maybe especially by the new generation. To me, the song represents a universal truth - once a girl hits puberty there are going to be predators out there (lest we forget her 'sweetheart' ends up as a nazi...). Obviously todays ladies are, on the surface at least, a little bit more sexually savvy, but it's still not fundamentally wrong. And the song does fit in the time period it's portrayed in.

 

[AlexBailey]

I'm not sure I see a problem with this. (I'm sure Laurel does). But then I come from a country where the age of consent is sixteen and I've noticed an upsurge recently in tutting about how 'underage' relationships are portrayed in media, even or maybe especially by the new generation. To me, the song represents a universal truth - once a girl hits puberty there are going to be predators out there (lest we forget her 'sweetheart' ends up as a nazi...). Obviously todays ladies are, on the surface at least, a little bit more sexually savvy, but it's still not fundamentally wrong. And the song does fit in the time period it's portrayed in.

Right. It does fit the timeframe - and the boy is literally a NAZI… It’s another classic, but I wonder how many Gen Z girls would feel that a boy who is only one year older should be “telling them what to do.”

 

[SimonDoom]

How about Sixteen Going On Seventeen from The Sound of Music?

Not as cringy as What Makes the Red Man Red, but still…

Why is that cringy? There's nothing sexual about the relationship, as I recall.

 

[SimonDoom]

This is definitely a generational thing: the frequency with which people are told now how they are supposed to react to things, and how content that doesn't conform to the orthodoxy is to be treated as cringy. I find my social media feeds are constantly full of clickbaity titles like "10 Movies that wouldn't get made today," and they cite movies from the 1990s. I feel sorry for people today that they are inculcated to think this way.

 

[SimonDoom]

To be clear, I don't necessarily blame young people today for their attitudes. They were raised by parents from my generation, and taught by teachers from my generation.

 

[KeithD]

Why is that cringy? There's nothing sexual about the relationship, as I recall.

??? In the song, the boyfriend is almost literally saying, "Let me do you before those old codgers get to you because I'm older and wiser than you are," when in fact they're both under eighteen. And she's buying it.

 

[desecration]

Shows like 'All in the Family'- Archie Bunker and comedians like George Carlin, Don Rickles, and Flip Wilson to name a few. There was no such thing as 'Political Correctness'. It was just Frikking Humor. Nobody got their panties in a wad.

That we can no longer have this kind of humor tells me that things are not going so well.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Sorry, but I have to go with SD on this. I see no sexuality in there, just some utterly age-appropriate flirting. For heaven’s sake, how old do kids have to be?

 

[desecration]

1. Non-con seen through the lens of girls being “good” and needing to be seduced (which isn’t so much of an IRL thing nowadays)
2. Interracial being taboo
3. Jokes about sexual orientation
4. Jokes about disability
5. Men crying

Non-con, also know as "sexual assault" in most jurisdictions! Zoomers seem to have flipped the script on #2. For #3 and #4, that seems to be something that goes with the audience... not in public. I have no idea what to think about #5. Men were supposed to be emotionless in the movies, but I don't think anyone in real life had that expectation.