Connecting vs Craftsmanship

[AchtungNight]

No one seems to have noticed that I'm not into incest or romance yet.

I write things I'm not into because I'm not into them. I figure if I can convince most people I'm into it/understand it then I can't be as horrible a writer as I think I am. I also want to figure out the appeal of certain things I have no experience with.

I guess you could say it's a type of research.

I’m similar and different. I write to exercise my imagination and share things I’m interested in with those of similar mind. I also have limited experience with such things, so yeah, I’m researching and practicing too. And, yes, I write crazy impossible situations because there’s no way they’d ever happen in this universe. But it’s fun to imagine a universe where they could. And not have it be a place of bad things.

In the real world, I doubt famous people participate in swinging networks, pick up people in bars, or get steamy with each other while working together on movies, modeling, etc, let alone display their affection for such things to the public. But to imagine a dimension where it does happen and make it realistic, bring legends down to earth for us to enjoy in certain ways? That’s the challenge for which I write.

 

[ronde]

To be honest, this may be a miscalculation. I don't think longer story=more views. The reason why you got more comments and rates is probably due to the content, not the storys' lengths. Unless they both have the same subject matter, then I'd be proven wrong.

I probably didn't explain this correctly. I didn't mean the length of the story determines the number of views. What I meant is how long the story has been published does, at least in the case of my stories. That makes sense to me because the longer a story is available to be read, the more people are likely to at least click on it and begin to read it.

 

[ronde]

I agree. I don't know why you bother/how you can, write content that doesn't do much for you, personally, in terms of a kink. I think it shows in the writing, there's no heart in it. It's like painting by numbers, to get the numbers.

Similarly, those who say, "I'm going to write something in every category, to see if I can." To be fair, that IS a writer's exercise, but again, why bother? Those categories that you don't know, those kinks you don't have - they're going to show in the writing, by not showing. Readers are going to "know" it's not your kink. You can fake it till you make it, I reckon, but it only gets you so far. You need the kink to get you the rest, and that's the bit that readers will "believe".

I've written in a fairly wide range of categories (18, at last count), not because I'm trying to write in all - which I'm not - but because the category fitted the story best, and I don't fit myself into any tight niches (I'm a wide-ranging perv, what can I say. But I reckon anyone who knows my content, they're going to say, "Yeah, that's an EB story. " They'll spot my trademarks, my tropes, straight away.

I agree. If I don't know or at least believe it could happen, I can't write anything that makes sense about it. It just comes out forced and I don't like it enough to even submit it.

 

[tominsatiable]

Today @pink_silk_glove gave me a gift. She gave me a term to use to describe what kind of feedback I want from my stories:


This was in a discussion about getting high scores on Literotica.



I fully endorse the idea of "connecting" as a reason for wanting feedback, and for not looking for high scores (which suggests a broad appeal... often not compatible with "connecting.") But "pandering" has a negative connotation, whether or not you think "there's nothing wrong with that." Wouldn't it be better to ascribe the desire for high scores to be indicative of an author's desire to refine their craft? I've been intrigued by the fact that a lot of erotica writers take pride in being able to create stories in all sorts of genres. For myself, they are records of fantasies, and it would be inconceivable for me to try to write a story that didn't arouse me. So I conclude that these authors are taking pride in their plain talent as writers. That's not "pandering," but a look at scores is a legitimate way to measure their success. True?

Of course, writing "from the heart" does not preclude trying to refine one's craftsmanship.

So my question for you all are these:

What is your prime motivation? Connecting? Perfecting your authorial craft? Something else?

Connection. I came here a decade ago to find it. I’m new but I hope to build this very thing - connection - with others.

That said, I feel that connection is much stronger without the “pandering” you allude to. This is because we are connected by beauty, and in this space, the beauty of our writing craft.

 

[firmbutgentle]

My reasons for being here have changed over the years, but it’s always been about connection. I came here originally to meet someone. Then I did (not via Lit) and left this site behind, just as I did personals sites. That relationship ended, lots happened, and then I found a life partner who is mostly vanilla.

So I returned to Lit as a way to express/explore my kinky side without endangering my relationship — to connect with like-minded people and share fantasies etc. But as I started writing again regularly, I began to want more from my stories and my characters. I was lucky enough to find a few regular readers who were themselves good writers and more importantly good at critique, so I’ve been learning a lot and writing differently, and enjoying it more.

I am about to finish a series I’ve been working on for more than six months. It’s gotten very good reaction from a very small number of people, who genuinely engage with the stories, so that’s been quite gratifying. My other works-in-progress range from more of the same to things that are further away from the typical Lit story, so much so I wonder if they would attract any readership at all.

During pandemic I almost completely stopped playing music. Without an opportunity to play with other people, I played a lot less, and focused more on songwriting and solo work that could be shared remotely. I love playing music but it’s the connection that motivates me. The same is true for writing. Without connection it is an empty exercise for me.

I like what @pink_silk_glove said, a lot. I won’t pretend not to care about my ratings; when a story finally crosses the 10-vote barrier and gets a HOT badge I am inordinately pleased. But it’s the comments and the communication that really matter. If I wrote a story that got hundreds of votes and a 4.9 rating, but no comments other than “Sexy!” and no communication other than generic come-ons from people who clearly didn’t really read the story, I’d feel like I’d failed. I’m much happier with my stories that have 10 votes and a few readers who really connected with them.

 

[AG31]

Last night I thought, "Oh! I forgot what's probably the most common motivator! Money!" But pretty quickly I realized that this conversation was on Literotica where no one is making money on their publications here. Duh...

 

[madelinemasoch]

I probably didn't explain this correctly. I didn't mean the length of the story determines the number of views. What I meant is how long the story has been published does, at least in the case of my stories. That makes sense to me because the longer a story is available to be read, the more people are likely to at least click on it and begin to read it.

Oh. You're totally correct then.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I agree. I don't know why you bother/how you can, write content that doesn't do much for you, personally, in terms of a kink. I think it shows in the writing, there's no heart in it. It's like painting by numbers, to get the numbers.

Similarly, those who say, "I'm going to write something in every category, to see if I can." To be fair, that IS a writer's exercise, but again, why bother? Those categories that you don't know, those kinks you don't have - they're going to show in the writing, by not showing. Readers are going to "know" it's not your kink. You can fake it till you make it, I reckon, but it only gets you so far. You need the kink to get you the rest, and that's the bit that readers will "believe".

I've written in a fairly wide range of categories (18, at last count), not because I'm trying to write in all - which I'm not - but because the category fitted the story best, and I don't fit myself into any tight niches (I'm a wide-ranging perv, what can I say. But I reckon anyone who knows my content, they're going to say, "Yeah, that's an EB story. " They'll spot my trademarks, my tropes, straight away.

I've successfully (been paid for the work) written stories and scenes in stories that were on subjects that I wouldn't touch IRL with a ten foot pole.

From violent scenes to gay male romance to incest, the ability to make the experience believable for the readers is exactly what a writer's job is.

I do not find the same enjoyment in writing outside my comfort zone, so unless there is something really motivating me to do so, I will avoid it. Sometimes that motivation is a contest here. Sometimes it is a challenge presented to me by another writer. Sometimes it is a challenge that I put on myself. The reward is achieving the believe-ability factor with the readers as evidenced by the feedback.

 

[SimonDoom]

I object to the use of the "v" symbol in the thread title, because I believe it presents yet another meaningless and false dichotomy.

Porn v. erotica
Writing for yourself v. writing for others
Connecting v. craftsmanship
art v. not-art

I don't believe in any of this. I believe categories like "art" and "erotica" are big-tent categories that encompass a wide range of purposes, methods, approaches, etc., and I think it's possible for a single author to write with multiple purposes and methods in mind.

Let's face it, most of us--and the comments in this thread confirm this--are subject to motivated thinking and confirmation bias. If we get high scores but fewer views, then we tend to think that's better. If we get more views but lower scores, we tend to think that's better. But there's no one way to skin the cat, or write an erotic story.

I write both for myself and my own internal aesthetic pleasure, and also because I greatly enjoy the idea that others read and enjoy my stories. I want to stimulate people's minds, and I want them to take pleasure in my words, but I also enjoy it if they get their rocks off. I write to improve my craft and I write to connect with others. I don't worry at all about whether my stories meet someone else's standards for "art" or whatever.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I probably didn't explain this correctly. I didn't mean the length of the story determines the number of views. What I meant is how long the story has been published does, at least in the case of my stories. That makes sense to me because the longer a story is available to be read, the more people are likely to at least click on it and begin to read it.

There are other factors beyond longevity.

New stories drive views of older stories by the same writer considerably. Having a story listed in "Similar Stories" also contributes to keeping an older story viable with the readers. My oldest story here has been published for 3,453 days as of today. It receives 42 views per day the last time I checked and consistently maintains between 350 and 400 "favorites". My latest story is receiving 555 views per day and is in the same category as my first one (N/N).

 

[ElectricBlue]

I've successfully (been paid for the work) written stories and scenes in stories that were on subjects that I wouldn't touch IRL with a ten foot pole.

There's the motivation, being paid.

Surely that's a different dynamic, as a writer? You're not doing it for your own erotic satisfaction, you're not doing it to satisfy your own sexual curiosity, indulge your kinks. You're doing it to put money in the bank. That's work.

Why did you bother? The answer was money. That's fair enough, but if you didn't get paid, would you have written it? That's the test, isn't it?

 

[MelissaBaby]

There are other factors beyond longevity.

New stories drive views of older stories by the same writer considerably. Having a story listed in "Similar Stories" also contributes to keeping an older story viable with the readers. My oldest story here has been published for 3,453 days as of today. It receives 42 views per day the last time I checked and consistently maintains between 350 and 400 "favorites". My latest story is receiving 555 views per day and is in the same category as my first one (N/N).

There are many factors. I posted on the Milestones thread yesterday that I had an uptick in views and faves on a 4 year old story. When I checked to try to figure out why, I found that it was featured as a "Related Story Preview" on the Romance Top List page.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

There's the motivation, being paid.

Surely that's a different dynamic, as a writer? You're not doing it for your own erotic satisfaction, you're not doing it to satisfy your own sexual curiosity, indulge your kinks. You're doing it to put money in the bank. That's work.

Why did you bother? The answer was money. That's fair enough, but if you didn't get paid, would you have written it? That's the test, isn't it?

I don't write anything here or elsewhere for the personal kink factor. If the story or scene speaks to someone else's kink, so be it.

My motivation for writing outside of my personal comfort zone here on Literotica is always the challenge that it presents for me to do so.

Can I make it believable for the readers? Will the characters do justice to the scenes? I never have experienced and have no desire for experiencing an incestuous relationship, but readers have accepted my stories in that genre.

Challenge accepted - challenge met. Now I can move on.

I hate writing poetry. Maybe I'll try that next.

 

[thebobber326]

Today @pink_silk_glove gave me a gift. She gave me a term to use to describe what kind of feedback I want from my stories:


This was in a discussion about getting high scores on Literotica.



I fully endorse the idea of "connecting" as a reason for wanting feedback, and for not looking for high scores (which suggests a broad appeal... often not compatible with "connecting.") But "pandering" has a negative connotation, whether or not you think "there's nothing wrong with that." Wouldn't it be better to ascribe the desire for high scores to be indicative of an author's desire to refine their craft? I've been intrigued by the fact that a lot of erotica writers take pride in being able to create stories in all sorts of genres. For myself, they are records of fantasies, and it would be inconceivable for me to try to write a story that didn't arouse me. So I conclude that these authors are taking pride in their plain talent as writers. That's not "pandering," but a look at scores is a legitimate way to measure their success. True?

Of course, writing "from the heart" does not preclude trying to refine one's craftsmanship.

So my question for you all are these:

What is your prime motivation? Connecting? Perfecting your authorial craft? Something else?

I found that to get the most out of my fantasies, I had to write them down and they became much more exciting compared to the vague fragments of imagination floating around in my head. Since I was already writing, I thought I may as well share them with others to see if they enjoyed them too. One thing I will say is that before writing, I never had a "series" of fantasies. They were usually just a few ideas of people I knew that never developed or went anywhere. Now I have an 8 parter!

 

[AG31]

I found that to get the most out of my fantasies, I had to write them down and they became much more exciting compared to the vague fragments of imagination floating around in my head. Since I was already writing, I thought I may as well share them with others to see if they enjoyed them too. One thing I will say is that before writing, I never had a "series" of fantasies. They were usually just a few ideas of people I knew that never developed or went anywhere. Now I have an 8 parter!

I'm glad to hear this. It more or less mirrors my own experience, with the difference that my fantasies were originally very vivid. But I could relive them as I came up with words to describe them and share them.