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Insider or Outsider?

Industrial_Bondage said:
Let me see if I can give you a slightly different perspective on what was said:

There is a BDSM personnel's thread and a half dozen other sites for meeting people trying to be meet; this forum has a purpose. It's not playing match maker.

2) I rarely see pictures -personal pictures- posted or offered here; if you want them, you will be sad.

3) Nothing is more off-putting -and frequently more dangerous- than the a PYL who feels the need to be overwhelmingly "on" all the time. Every "true master" and "I don't need limits" type I have known has taken themselves overly seriously. See enough of them and you get a little defense around them.

4) There is humorous and there is "come on, that violates the laws of probability AND physics".

5) We talk about what we find sexy often; but not the way they do over on the Fetish board. Being gagged with your SOs panties may be your button; if you want to share that kink and spank a little, Fetish board. If you want to examine the risks and the edges your missing, this is the place.


6) This one may just be my personal issue, but if I read one more post asking for either instruction or advice and reading like a dysfunctional eighth grader wrote it... I might just scream. BDSM is an intimate time for me and I dare say many others. If you want the PYL cred, then invest some time in your scenes.


7) There is a level of snobbishness in the BDSM community; it is very hard for most of us to understand how you can be in a true BDSM relationship and never look into your partner's eyes.

8) Be a good Lit-izen! The "look it up first" rule is pretty much a standard on every board on Lit.

9) I think you're a little off target here. I can't count the number of "Hi, I'm new threads" that have been embraced and responded to in a very positive manner. Likewise, I can't count the number of "High, Me Nu tu THis" threads that get washed away..

10) "If we disapprove of you we will either ignore you or treat you as prey". - This, right here; pretty common across the entire web!

11) Have some freaking dignity. If your marriage is crumbling or you think you might have accidentally given your SO anal warts... a very public, will last until the collapse of civilization on line forum might not be the place to air it! The propensity to air their dirty laundry in public is just something I do not get.

12) This is a standard in most real life BDSM communities; getting the lay of the land before deciding that you are the resident expert. You don't get to show up the first time out and just start topping a scene. Sometimes, you have to spend a few meetings getting to know people. Then a few meetings being supervised with a pyl. Then you can have run of the gathering. I have decades in this lifestyle, but if I had come at this place like I was THE expert on all things BDSM, I would have missed out on learning some very wonderful tricks that were new to me.
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I see and understand that completely: I am sure that is how it was meant. But I described how it came across to someone who does not post here, rather than, in the OP's terminology, 'an insider'. Clearly you are able to interpret the intention, having been here a while: but not all can, or have the patience to do so when other boards are more overtly welcoming. That may not bother you at all, and why should it, if you have found a place which works for you and where you are comfortable? But if MidWestYankee is a little concerned about the way this forum is perceived elsewhere on Lit, others may be too.

I have participated in most of the other boards here, and was an active participant for years in various UK BDSM boards and in the lifestyle. Neither in munches, fetish clubs nor in online discussions did I ever encounter even a hint of 'prove yourself' elitism, until reaching here. I understand that very barrier may well be what improves the quality of this place for those who manage to broach it, as opposed to the 'Come one, come all' atmosphere of, say, the PG. But it would be disingenuous to deny that the barrier exists, even if you feel it exists for good reasons.
 
Industrial_Bondage said:
For me, this is the heart of point 12, your welcome, if you're willing to show you can contribute positively. Until then, and based on the collective experience, you will-likely, but not always- be held at a distance.

I would go so far as to say this is a good thing. Few, if any of the topics discussed on the PG can lead to injury or criminal charges; screw up AEA (breath play) and you could well get a first hand look at the wrong side of the judicial system. AEA is "deep end of the pool" business that you don't want just anyone sppeaking about as if they are an expert. You need to have a comfort level with who is in that conversation. It's not elitist, it's a matter of safety in no small way.
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Again, that is entirely understood. I am not a sadist and have little knowledge of breath play, knife play, etc. In such cases I would not participate, or only to ask questions. But in philosophical discussions about submission? In talk about what Dominance means to you? Are these dangerous?
 
Industrial_Bondage said:
If the wrong voices prevail, if the inexperienced hear to loudly the ideas of the dangerous minority -for example those who claim that safe words are a sign of weakness, that they demand their subs submit to their every whim- then yes, a philosophical discussion can be dangerous.
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This is very true, but we know that if such views are expressed here, then the words of warning are swift to follow.

Maybe it's because, when some discussions are started, it is felt that it is an attempt to gain salacious material for fantasies, rather than a genuine attempt to begin a debate? I've read interesting discussions on Fetlife but they don't seem to translate to here.
 
Industrial_Bondage said:
Thinking out loud here, but, is it possible that someone new sees the words of warning response, or -when they are warranted- the calling out of one of those riskier voices and, lacking a frame of reference, assumes we are impolite and closed off or elitist or whast have you?
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That's very possible. And they may decide that, rather than risk joining in, they go elsewhere.
 
I think that "how welcome a newbie feels" around here, to a very high degree is a question of the newbie's attitude.

Taking it easy and putting a bit of work into the posts, normally helps a great deal.

The newbie that kicks in the door, uses "sms shorthand" to wildly postulate something, posts off topic or demands an answer to something. And he will of course use CAPS LOCK THROUGH THE ENTIRE POST.
If nobody has answered within the first 20 minutes, he will follow up with an insulted: "you are a bunch of motherfuckers that ignore newcomers! Who exactly do you think you are, assholes?"

He really is a little hard to love.
 
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I had a funny one recently, where a new poster made the classic prostate/prostrate mistake.

resting on your prostrate. Mmmm.
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I posted a picture of both possibilities.
:)

His reaction was an immediate (that was his second post on Lit):
On a completely different note... I wonder if it says something about this online community when a new member posts a comment with clearly an auto spell mistake and he is jumped at immediately. Hmmm. Way to say hello.
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Oh my!
Cumference said:
That is not jumping, Honey!
:kiss:
Take a trip to the General Board, and you will see some real jumping!


Cool, blame it on the spellchecker.
But just like being unable to pronounce "nuclear" with the correct number of syllables, you will see, that prostate/prostrate is a very classic American problem.

(You have noticed the "lit" in literotica, haven't you?)
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And here I must have hit something sore! I can see him sitting there, trying not to say "nu-cu-lear"...... then exploding into his keyboard:
What I have noticed is the ignorant assumption that I am American and the stereotyping that goes with that.

Little do you know who I am and what knowledge of human anatomy I have (and the nomenclature that goes with it, my livelihood being dependent on it). I will leave it that and leave your pettiness for you to ponder.

Plunge away and I sincerely hope you unclog your mind and rid yourself of your preconceptions.
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It was not really tactful on my behalf, I fully acknowledge that, but showing that much temperament can make it a little hard to walk into a room and win new friends!
(I have not scared him away, he was logged in yesterday)
 
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DesEsseintes said:
Again, that is entirely understood. I am not a sadist and have little knowledge of breath play, knife play, etc. In such cases I would not participate, or only to ask questions. But in philosophical discussions about submission? In talk about what Dominance means to you? Are these dangerous?
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Yes, I think they can be.
I have seen people ask things I never would have thought I'd hear a grown person ask. They have just met this domly person online and learned that they are not supposed to ever question a domly one. This is why they are a bit ashamed of asking, if it is really reasonable to be asked to move cross country with kids and all.

This makes me really nervous when I see people posting things like "just trust your master, because he cares and knows what is best for you" or that your dom will fix your phobias in a few minutes and any other problems you might have because a dominant is always the stronger person in the relationship.
Well, you get the picture...
 
WARNING this is a bit of a rant and a very personal and emotional response. This is not an attack on anyone or the start of a war.

What a depressing subject. It seems that here in the BDSM Talk forum we aren't supposed to have strong opinions on something deeply personal to us. :( Even though discussing something like what dom/sub means to us is very important and can get very heated. Every one of those answers is going to depend on the person and people are definitely not going to agree 100% of the time. Many of us will certainly point out when something sounds dangerous.

We have to do that. The last thing most of us want (especially me) is for a sub to leave here thinking that what they want doesn't matter and they should do everything asked of them even if it means having no limits and possibly being maimed horribly. Or in some cases should let their SO/dom/master/whatever play psychologist with their phobias. Or that a dom is simply a tool to giving good times to subs and shouldn't get their own needs met.

Anyone remember the ridiculous gentlemen that came in here bragging about the online sub he had? He thought it was necessary to let us all know he was waiting for her to move in with him and that he planned to do really horrible stuff to her in his basement. His selling point that they had the ultimate D/s relationship? NO LIMITS! He was so proud that even murder wasn't a limit! Oh, exciting!;)

The funny thing? Some people here tried to actually give him advice to help with his question. (-_-; ) How much more welcoming can we be? Should we all have said, "high five, bro! You landed yourself the subbiest of all subbies and we're so fucking jealous! You're domliness must be through the fucking roof!"

Honestly, every board here has groups of regulars that are hard to be apart of. The GB is full of regulars that get along by being rather mean to one another and especially mean to anyone that is new. The HT board has regulars that are warm and welcoming, but it still feels awkward trying to be apart of the silly, witty fun (I don't feel clever enough to join in most of the time. That's just my feelings and nothing to do with them not being welcoming). The personals section has a special brand of troll, there I've seen people post their ad and the only replies they get in the forum are not inquiries about their ad, but special insults just for them. I don't frequent the other boards enough to know how they work, but I've been around enough discussion boards to know it's something to be expected.

So what makes this board so different?

I feel like we are being chastised for having standards. It's like telling someone they should lower their standards to have a bigger pool of dating candidates. If they don't lower their standards it's their fault they can't find anything. If they do lower their standards they're left unfulfilled. So what do we do? Do we offer milk and cookies to the next person that comes in bragging about possibly murdering their partner? Or do we tell that person to stop being a troll and GTFO?

Of course, this board is made up of individuals and we can't tell everyone here what they should feel or how they should perceive a post. What sounds perfectly neutral to the writer, may sound completely insulting to the reader. We also can't control things like the effects of medication or personal turmoil that may motivate some to react negatively.

There were times that I misinterpreted replies to my posts. Instead of leaving entirely, I either publicly or privately asked for clarification (and tried to leave out passive aggression, sometimes unsuccessfully). Taking a moment to ask myself if what I've been saying sounds ignorant, I'm also better able to understand myself and the person disagreeing with me.

I've never seen anyone here ask another to "prove themselves" because elitist. Some may feel the need to offer their experiences as credibility when offering their insight, but I've never seen someone point out another's lack of years in the scene as being a reason to keep them from joining in on discussions.

I've got like what? A year? And I've never participated in local groups or met with other RL kinksters (damn, no street cred for me). I've pointed out over and over that I may not be the typical standard for what constitutes "sub." I don't consider myself an "insider" or an "outsider." I'm a member that frequents the board and adds my $0.02 when I see fit. Some of my posts are acknowledged, many are (maybe not ignored, but definitely) not replied to. Some are perceived as negative and some positive.

Why do I keep coming back and attempting to participate? Because the people here are typically genuine and come from different backgrounds. They have meaningful discussions and great advice. They make me think beyond my own vision of what BDSM is.

And thank fuck for that last one because as a newbie I read some pretty disturbing sites claiming to have educational material for BDSM. I've seen memes with pretty pictures and words that sound amazing, but totally have nothing to do with reality. I crave realism and practicality, not fantasies and wank fodder when I come here (I go elsewhere for that stuff). That's the mentality I have when replying to a post. I don't expect everyone to see it that way, but I won't just smile and nod either. :rose:

This has been my experience here and I like that people call BS and give realistic advice. BTW, after writing all of this I have no idea if what I've written has anything to do with the OP anymore. I'm sad that this side of the board is seen as unfriendly and personally would love to see more members come around. I may have taken this thread too seriously. :eek:
 
new

I will admit to being new to Lit, and new to the BDSM pages of Lit. Am I new to BDSM? Hardly. If a "regular" is going to read a post I may put up, and immediatly scan to see my number of posts I have, to see if I warrant an answer..thats on them, not me. Judge that way if you like. Do I need to follow a select fews ideals on how I need to post, what I need to do first, which hoop of theirs do they prefer me to jump through? I dont need to have to impress anyone. The BDSM lifestyle has so many variations to it, where anyone and everyone has their own unique twist to any common item in this lifestyle, and can tweek it, to fit their own personal needs and wants to make them happy. That is one of the great things about our choices in BDSM. What works great for one, may not be for another. But some can also find a happy medium, between the two. I feel, and I may be wrong, if your a male, with few posts notched into your headboard..you may be looked at as a wank fodder. If your a female in the same circumstances..your a new sub trying to learn. So yes there can be a double standard. It can also appear at times, if your not as recognized, due to constant posting or answering, your new, so you probably dont know what your talking about, or, just not worthy of others time. We all need to show others we are tolerant and willing to educate, listen, sugguest to almost anyone that comes in the BDSM rooms. We were all beginners at some point, and if it werent for tolerant more experienced people in the BDSM community, we wouldnt know half of what we do know. No one needs to be on a BDSM high horse here. I may have to recheck Mine, and everyone elses profiles, but nowhere have I seen anyones BDSM Ph.D or Dom/ Domme/submissive /slave of the year awards, listed on this page. Am I new to being a Dom? Nope, Am I new to Lit? You betcha. Do I need to show anyone my personal portfolio to prove Myself to anyone. Never. Other than that..Yall keep up the good work ! These pages should be fun, educating, AND tolerant.
 
I am a newbie, and I preface my remarks by stating that my primary relationships and community exist in my daily physical interactions, not in my on-line interactions. With that in mind, I do not feel devastated when something I post on this board is ignored or dismissed, even though I may subsequently feel less inclined to participate.

However, I have observed that the more open a thread is to considering new viewpoints, the more likely it is to delve into new and interesting territory, and the more likely that the population of the BDSM board will increase.

I also understand why stalwarts of the BDSM board need to maintain minimum standards for civility.
 
twister947 said:
It has the feel of a clique. That's not an indictment...it just happens.
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This

My first post was in here. Then I looked around, I started playing in the playground and then I posted in a thread that interested me here, was mainly ignored...fair enough, I then posted another thought and someone who clearly looked at my posting history came back and dissed me as someone who posted in the playground

It was an FU moment worthy of the GB

I didn't bother much after that tbh ...but I sometimes read things and post
 
I don't do cliques or, generally meanness. I'm sorry if anyone felt that this part of the board did do that and I certainly can't speak for everyone but I've rarely seen it.

Being a newbie quite some time I ago I do remember it well. At that time there was a mod who reflexively didn't like me. Maybe it was my age that was the red flag for that person. No idea.

For a long time I felt ignored by most and negatively sometimes noticed by said mod. Eventually we worked it out mostly because I refused to go away or feel bad about myself. If I had to do it all over again I might not have stayed and tried as hard as I did. These days when a group leader picks me out as "de debil" I don't tend to hang long.

I'm usually a heretic in any group. I don't fight but I do tend to point out that there are other sides to things. Some can't handle that. Some can't agree to disagree. The idea that we can each pull the other to our side of thought is unlikely. However, when just one true way is being held up about anything, homeschooling, D/s, Vegetarianism, Secularism, or any other things, I tend to say, um, there are more ways out there for the fence sitter.

Again, if I've been cruel I apologize. I hope I haven't. I don't think I have. Then again, steroids! lolz

This is my BDSM home online. Do people spout off sometimes here? Yes.

But one thing I do like is how little bullshit they will take from trolls. It always amuses me how a troll thread will be derailed in some strange, completely unintended and uninteresting to the troll OP, direction.

Is that cruel? I don't think so.

You know the person that posts something like, "Why do you hit each other? That's sick!" That kind of thing. Those fuckers do not get the stuff they are looking for here. Maybe they can get it on the GB but not here.
 
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may_I_please said:
This

My first post was in here. Then I looked around, I started playing in the playground and then I posted in a thread that interested me here, was mainly ignored...fair enough, I then posted another thought and someone who clearly looked at my posting history came back and dissed me as someone who posted in the playground

It was an FU moment worthy of the GB

I didn't bother much after that tbh ...but I sometimes read things and post
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In my opinion this is a comment worth thinking about, in fact I have come back to read it several times. Perhaps I am slow of wit you think for having to read it more than once. I prefer to think there is much written by may_I_please worth thinking about or more likely what she writes is a reflection of what I feel.

I was tempted to wait a day or two before commenting on her post to see how long her comment ,as a "newbie", on how a "newbie" may feel would be ignored by the powerful and mighty. But then I thought. No I can not hold out a day or two.

Has anyone here bothered to read or think about what the "Newbies" have said. Other than the OP that is. I know she has. But just look at the inclusive dialog you are having. Think about it.
 
LallyH said:
This is very true, but we know that if such views are expressed here, then the words of warning are swift to follow.

Maybe it's because, when some discussions are started, it is felt that it is an attempt to gain salacious material for fantasies, rather than a genuine attempt to begin a debate? I've read interesting discussions on Fetlife but they don't seem to translate to here.
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I resent the way some threads get dismissed as wank-fodder solicitation. I think some of us jump to conclusions mighty fast. And even if they are, who cares? Information is information, and it all depends on how you answer the questions.

(And as a bona-fide insider* I can't help but notice that my response in some of those threads will change the way other people respond. It's humbling, actually. The realization has made me more careful -- less dismissive, mostly. Also, less quick to respond in some circumstances.

Questions about emotions and relationships? Not my fortè. I prefer to listen to other people's answers on those.)


IrisAlthea said:
Yes, I think they can be.
I have seen people ask things I never would have thought I'd hear a grown person ask. They have just met this domly person online and learned that they are not supposed to ever question a domly one. This is why they are a bit ashamed of asking, if it is really reasonable to be asked to move cross country with kids and all.

This makes me really nervous when I see people posting things like "just trust your master, because he cares and knows what is best for you" or that your dom will fix your phobias in a few minutes and any other problems you might have because a dominant is always the stronger person in the relationship.
Well, you get the picture...
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Counteracting bullshit like this; It's what keeps me here.

4yourpleasureiam said:
In my opinion this is a comment worth thinking about, in fact I have come back to read it several times. Perhaps I am slow of wit you think for having to read it more than once. I prefer to think there is much written by may_I_please worth thinking about or more likely what she writes is a reflection of what I feel.

I was tempted to wait a day or two before commenting on her post to see how long her comment ,as a "newbie", on how a "newbie" may feel would be ignored by the powerful and mighty. But then I thought. No I can not hold out a day or two.

Has anyone here bothered to read or think about what the "Newbies" have said. Other than the OP that is. I know she has. But just look at the inclusive dialog you are having. Think about it.
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Yes, I have seen numerous newbies turn immediately into active participants. Collar_and_cuffs, and MeekMe, despite that they might think the process took longer-- it seems to me that I, at least, found both of them immediately congenial from very early on.

I wonder what thought it was, that led someone to look at may_I_please's posting history? Because I have to say, I've done that when something about the post struck me as being off somehow-- shallow, (Playground, often) mean-spirited (GB usually), or focused on sister's panties (Fetish).

But you know it's perfectly possible to defend yourself. Check out Bent, in the "what's it like..." thread;
Bent said:
Thank you for your response, but I do know that you survive in the real world, as do I. You presume, based on my activities on the GB that I'm here to mock you, but you couldn't be further from the truth.

Not that I should feel compelled, but since we're on the subject, I asked because this is who I am (submissive) and was wanting input about how other people handle these situations since I've not actually faced them myself. I was merely curious about the different dynamics, is all. But again, thanks.
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That's fucking impressive. I wish I could handle myself that well. I don't have the stamina or the stomach for the GB, personally.



*Something that I am NOT in other parts of the internet. And really the process is the same wherever you are. It's been more than two years on tumblr-- and I'm still languishing there, mostly unregarded. Them's the breaks.
 
may_I_please said:
This

My first post was in here. Then I looked around, I started playing in the playground and then I posted in a thread that interested me here, was mainly ignored...fair enough, I then posted another thought and someone who clearly looked at my posting history came back and dissed me as someone who posted in the playground

It was an FU moment worthy of the GB

I didn't bother much after that tbh ...but I sometimes read things and post
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I feel similar to May. I have in the distant past tried to post here and been ignored. And posting took a lot of courage let me tell you...being a noob and all :)
It has a clique feel and it can also feel intimidating when you're ignored.
I read the threads here in the BDSM but I don't post.
 
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