fisting
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We've been testing the waters more and more; sometimes I get in this mood where I'm almost out of control, just needing to be filled and stretched and used that completely. So this naturally comes up. Have gotten to the "ring of fire" but panicked and pleaded for mercy (which he actually paid attention to, this time). There will be more, I'm sure.
The other problem, which I have not heard addressed, is that I'm built very shallowly on the inside; I can touch my cervix quite easily. It's uncomfortable at best, agonizing at worst. Does this mean no fisting for me?
We've been testing the waters more and more; sometimes I get in this mood where I'm almost out of control, just needing to be filled and stretched and used that completely. So this naturally comes up. Have gotten to the "ring of fire" but panicked and pleaded for mercy (which he actually paid attention to, this time). There will be more, I'm sure.
The other problem, which I have not heard addressed, is that I'm built very shallowly on the inside; I can touch my cervix quite easily. It's uncomfortable at best, agonizing at worst. Does this mean no fisting for me?
Etoile
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(oh goody, I get to talk fisting!Quint said:
No, the depth of your vagina does not mean no fisting for you. Remember, you can have a baby (unless you've been told you can't by a doctor, which you didn't mention so I assume that's not the case), and a baby's head is bigger than anybody's fist. If you want to, you can. As per usual, the key is communication - your partner should never force it. If he's decided you're going to try fisting, that's his decision as your top, but once the scene is underway you should be the one in control. He can encourage you to relax and submit to the penetration - and you may need to open your own mind about how much of this type of pain you can take, if you're finding it hurts - but you are the one who should ultimately say stop if it gets to that point.
Thank you, Etoile. It's a relief to know--he was a little concerned when he was pushing up on my cervix before all his fingers were even inside me, and the more we try this, the more we want it. (Don't you love those?) Good information to have.
Pure
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//wd: There is wisdom in the Kama sutra. You can fist a cow-elephant. And a mare, but it's difficult. The doe you cannot.//
well, your sample of three in the other posting may be too small.
"does" do have kids with heads damn near 10cm diameter; that's a circumference of about 31.4 cm; that's 12 and 3/8 ins.
put a tape around the fist (hand with fingertips together) at the largest point, and compare. better, bind the hand with adhesive tape so as to decrease its circumference a bit.
rock, etoile
Note, drs have a way of taking measurements to estimate the pelvis' ability to pass a normal size baby; i dont have the method's details on hand. ultimately it's the *bones* that limit things.
well, your sample of three in the other posting may be too small.
"does" do have kids with heads damn near 10cm diameter; that's a circumference of about 31.4 cm; that's 12 and 3/8 ins.
put a tape around the fist (hand with fingertips together) at the largest point, and compare. better, bind the hand with adhesive tape so as to decrease its circumference a bit.
rock, etoile
Note, drs have a way of taking measurements to estimate the pelvis' ability to pass a normal size baby; i dont have the method's details on hand. ultimately it's the *bones* that limit things.
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PinkOrchid
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Pure
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Thanks for clarifying, Pink!
{Added: It IS important for someone, esp. a guy NOT to think that every vagina, cuz it *can* at some point, in some circumstance, pass a baby, that it *can* right at the moment accommodate something like a hand or, say a beer bottle, without discomfort, even injury.
Sorry I ignored your good point, first time around.!
}
/So the notion that women can take anything inside them since they have kids is not entirely accurate./
I didn't and wouldn't say a woman can 'take anything inside them...'. I simply said a woman's vagina can dilate to 10 cm in childbirth. I suggested that a hand, bound properly, might fit if less than this maximim. This gives an idea of what might be possible, though with discomfort; and as you say hormones that help one get through childbirth may not be around to assist.
{added: We are talking 'theoretically possible.' as pink says, the circumstances in a childbirth are special.}
/Childbirth spreads the pelvis, it doesn't just stretch the tissues. /
Exactly, and from that it follows that the vaginal size is probably never the issue; the women who have an (average) diameter in their pelvic 'chute'** of less than 10 cm. (it's not round)cannot vaginally deliver.
Incidentally the anus of both sexes can, in some circumstances be stretched enough to accomodate a hand with fingers bunched.
**sorry, the correct term escapes me.
{Added: It IS important for someone, esp. a guy NOT to think that every vagina, cuz it *can* at some point, in some circumstance, pass a baby, that it *can* right at the moment accommodate something like a hand or, say a beer bottle, without discomfort, even injury.
Sorry I ignored your good point, first time around.!
}/So the notion that women can take anything inside them since they have kids is not entirely accurate./
I didn't and wouldn't say a woman can 'take anything inside them...'. I simply said a woman's vagina can dilate to 10 cm in childbirth. I suggested that a hand, bound properly, might fit if less than this maximim. This gives an idea of what might be possible, though with discomfort; and as you say hormones that help one get through childbirth may not be around to assist.
{added: We are talking 'theoretically possible.' as pink says, the circumstances in a childbirth are special.}
/Childbirth spreads the pelvis, it doesn't just stretch the tissues. /
Exactly, and from that it follows that the vaginal size is probably never the issue; the women who have an (average) diameter in their pelvic 'chute'** of less than 10 cm. (it's not round)cannot vaginally deliver.
Incidentally the anus of both sexes can, in some circumstances be stretched enough to accomodate a hand with fingers bunched.
**sorry, the correct term escapes me.
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AngelicAssassin
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and can/does expand more.Pure said:
A doctor uses the term dilation, re childbirth, when referring to the cervix, not the vagina.
"Once the cervix has effaced, contractions will intensify in order to allow the uterus to reach an 'opening' of 10 cm. This process is called 'dilation'. Dilation is broken into two phases:
First: Cervix dilates from 0 to 8 centimeters.
Second: Cervix reaches it's goal of 10 centimeters."
Here's your link
"Once you have reached 10 cm. dilation, expulsion period begins. You will feel that contractions are less frequent, every 2 to 3 minutes. This is the moment the doctor will request that you push.
During this period, the baby's head penetrates the delivery canal and goes down to the perineo making an internal rotation. The doctor waits until he/she sees 3 or 4 centimeters of the baby's head. The next contraction will occur and the decision will be made if an episiotomy must be done in order to facilitate the exit of your child.
The baby's head begins to expand again prior to crowning.
Pure
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Originally posted by Pure
... I simply said a woman's vagina can dilate to 10 cm in childbirth ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[AA]:
//and can/does expand more.//
Thanks for adding that.
//A doctor uses the term dilation, re childbirth, when referring to the cervix, not the vagina.//
That was assumed, of course; I merely used 10 cm as a mimumum that the vagina would need to expand.
I looked up newborn baby's head circumference measurements, and they are normally 33-38 cm (a number of sources). That, interestingly corresponds to 11 cm in diameter, more or less!
35 cm corresponds to 13 3/4 ins (circum), if one is measuring an object or a hand.
For comparison, a standard .75 l wine bottle has a bit less than 8 cm diameter, with 8 cm about the size(diam) of an average male hand, bunched (almost 10 ins around).
You say,
//The baby's head begins to expand again prior to crowning.//
I don't see that said in your quotation or link, but I did see a figure at another website
http://www.vh.org/pediatric/provider/pediatrics/familypracticehandbook/newbornnursery.html
They say in a newborn one may see a change of 1 cm or so due to compression or molding in the delivery.
The moral seems to be that an average male hand bunched to 8-9 cm is going to fit-- under situable conditions, slowness, relaxation, etc.--- will fit into most vaginas, but I gather the process may take some time.
J.
... I simply said a woman's vagina can dilate to 10 cm in childbirth ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[AA]:
//and can/does expand more.//
Thanks for adding that.
//A doctor uses the term dilation, re childbirth, when referring to the cervix, not the vagina.//
That was assumed, of course; I merely used 10 cm as a mimumum that the vagina would need to expand.
I looked up newborn baby's head circumference measurements, and they are normally 33-38 cm (a number of sources). That, interestingly corresponds to 11 cm in diameter, more or less!
35 cm corresponds to 13 3/4 ins (circum), if one is measuring an object or a hand.
For comparison, a standard .75 l wine bottle has a bit less than 8 cm diameter, with 8 cm about the size(diam) of an average male hand, bunched (almost 10 ins around).
You say,
//The baby's head begins to expand again prior to crowning.//
I don't see that said in your quotation or link, but I did see a figure at another website
http://www.vh.org/pediatric/provider/pediatrics/familypracticehandbook/newbornnursery.html
They say in a newborn one may see a change of 1 cm or so due to compression or molding in the delivery.
The moral seems to be that an average male hand bunched to 8-9 cm is going to fit-- under situable conditions, slowness, relaxation, etc.--- will fit into most vaginas, but I gather the process may take some time.
J.
AngelicAssassin
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and i simply referred to why it had to get to 10cm.Pure said:
you're quite welcome.Pure said:
Looks like we're both mistaken.Pure said:
i didn't think i had to lead you down a primrose path, and since you found the link, my assumption appears correct. i'll know better next time, and give you the additional links.Pure said:
Everything takes time and shouldn't require rushing, except when you hear that pin pulled. The surprise in their eyes almost beats the pounding in your veins and heart when you come around the corner.Pure said:
James G 5
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niteshade said:
That was Deb Addington's comment in her fisting class...early on she said "How many of you ladies out there have been in the middle of really great, mind-blowing sex, and just thought 'More, I want MORE'? Raise your hands...Well, Fisting is about MORE."
Almost every woman in the room raised a hand, BTW
Etoile
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Double anal fisting figures in one of my favorite stories by Pat Califia. (Or wait, is it one in the pussy and one in the ass?)James G 5 said:Heck with that, I've seen men & women being "footed" anally, and I have a vid (that I shared with Pink, even) of a chick being DOUBEL anal fisted
So the anus can stretch a LOT wider than that
Etoile
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Indeed! That's how my girlfriend and I discovered fisting. We knew about it, of course, but we ended up trying it because I wanted more one day. Only occasionally have I actually wanted even more than a fist!James G 5 said:That was Deb Addington's comment in her fisting class...early on she said "How many of you ladies out there have been in the middle of really great, mind-blowing sex, and just thought 'More, I want MORE'? Raise your hands...Well, Fisting is about MORE."
Almost every woman in the room raised a hand, BTW
Effigy
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Quint said:
There is other ways of doing it... I'm way out of practice so I cant really describe how at the moment, but if he can go fingers first in, and tuck his fingers down sort of around the cervix, as the thumb, thumb muscle and then wrist get to enter. It does depend on how stretchy and relaxed you are on the inside of course, but they are just my tips...
Pure
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Etoile
//Double anal fisting figures in one of my favorite stories by Pat Califia. (Or wait, is it one in the pussy and one in the ass?)//
I think it was the latter. (S/he is great! I recall an interesting movie, too, with one hand up the pussy, one in the ass.
Also I think I've see two in the pussy, but I don't rule out two in the ass. (Though I'm doubtful about men taking two in the ass)
Hi James!
I thinks James' basic point is that items of skin only, or skin and muscle stretch almost indefinitely. Esp if this is done slowlly; look at the tribes women who insert circles in the ear lobe and stretch the lower lobe around a one foot diameter hoop.
For men, I think the 'birth canal'-- the diameter of the bone circle through which babies pass is somewhat smaller than for women, no? Hence I doubt most men can accomodate a rigid object any bigger than a beer bottle. James?
The numbers given in a previous post, suggest 11 cm in diameter (4.3 ins) for a woman's birth canal or vagina are about equal to a *large wine bottle, of 1.5 liters.
Query: Have anyone around here succeeded in fisting themselves either vaginally or anally?
J.
//Double anal fisting figures in one of my favorite stories by Pat Califia. (Or wait, is it one in the pussy and one in the ass?)//
I think it was the latter. (S/he is great! I recall an interesting movie, too, with one hand up the pussy, one in the ass.
Also I think I've see two in the pussy, but I don't rule out two in the ass. (Though I'm doubtful about men taking two in the ass)
Hi James!
I thinks James' basic point is that items of skin only, or skin and muscle stretch almost indefinitely. Esp if this is done slowlly; look at the tribes women who insert circles in the ear lobe and stretch the lower lobe around a one foot diameter hoop.
For men, I think the 'birth canal'-- the diameter of the bone circle through which babies pass is somewhat smaller than for women, no? Hence I doubt most men can accomodate a rigid object any bigger than a beer bottle. James?
The numbers given in a previous post, suggest 11 cm in diameter (4.3 ins) for a woman's birth canal or vagina are about equal to a *large wine bottle, of 1.5 liters.
Query: Have anyone around here succeeded in fisting themselves either vaginally or anally?
J.
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James G 5
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Pure said:
Seen men take 2, as I said I have video now of a woman taking 2 (anally as well as vaginally)
The bone ring doesn't come in to play in the same fashion rectally (as far as I know, anyway), that area can stretch VERY large on a man or woman, but there's a LOT more risk both of tearing and of STAYING stretched, since it's not designed for it like a vagina, leadiong to issues of anal leakage...if not stretched too far too often it can & will "snap back" but you can overdo it
Moondusk can fist herself vaginally, and I have video from Germany of women fisting themselves both ways...in one video a lady repeatedly jumps from her pussy to her ass (super unhygenic, I know) and the scary bit is that it goes in deeper & more easily in her ass
The German clips are SPOOKY, and coming from me that's saying something
Etoile
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Oh man, that must be something!James G 5 said:I've read her stories with both LOL
My Primary Mentor when I got in to BDSM was (still is, even) a lesbian Domme
She likes to dual-fist people synchronized to "Bohemian Rhapsody"
You have to see it to believe it....
Pat Califia is a guy now, though. He finally transitioned.
Pure
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I don't agree with this, James,
//The bone ring [through which a baby passes, in women]doesn't come in to play in the same fashion rectally (as far as I know, anyway), that area can stretch VERY large on a man or woman,//
my gf has never gotten past the beer bottle for (in) me and she and I both feel the bones that don't give; this is maybe four inches in.
so I'd say your magna accomodating males: either just stretch in anus only, OR, there's something that changes shape, as a balloon does (you can squeeze a 6 in large balloon through a 1 in hole.). I thus see how a football could go in, but not a rigid cylinder of more than say 4-5 ins for female and maybe 3-4 ins for males (exceptions notwithstanding).
J.
//The bone ring [through which a baby passes, in women]doesn't come in to play in the same fashion rectally (as far as I know, anyway), that area can stretch VERY large on a man or woman,//
my gf has never gotten past the beer bottle for (in) me and she and I both feel the bones that don't give; this is maybe four inches in.
so I'd say your magna accomodating males: either just stretch in anus only, OR, there's something that changes shape, as a balloon does (you can squeeze a 6 in large balloon through a 1 in hole.). I thus see how a football could go in, but not a rigid cylinder of more than say 4-5 ins for female and maybe 3-4 ins for males (exceptions notwithstanding).
J.
Pure
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Hi James,
I do have a _Gray's Anatomy_, and the 'ring' of bone is called the "pelvic outlet". It has a front-back measurement and a traverse one. The front back one has a little 'give' since it's the coccyx (tailbone) at the back. Average figures (Gray's 15th ed, p. 152)
Male : 3 1/4 in front to back; 3 1/2 traverse
Female: 5 in front to back; 4-4 3/4 traverse
Of course there are large pelves in certain people, not nec the taller ones, but the short wide women, for instance.
Both the rectum and vagina pass through this outlet[uterus on the upper side of the outlet, vulva on the lower side.. Ergo, unless something is deformed a bit, those are the maximum dimensions save for loosening of the joints.
These the diameter for the woman is about a 5 in circle or 12.7 centimeters. The dilation of the cervix and then vagina to 10 cm [in childbirth] , leaves 1.3 cm space for the vaginal wall, say about 1/2 in.
The circumference, for the woman, of that outlet is about 39 cm (15.3 ins); and iirc the circumference of a baby's head is average about 32 cm.
For males, the average circ. of the outlet is about 11 ins, or 28 cm.
These numbers agree with my 'beer bottle' proposal for the male (that that's about the max for something rigid), and the experience of double "fist "(palms together, cupped, fingers bunch and extended straight) for the female.
Check this stuff out.
I do have a _Gray's Anatomy_, and the 'ring' of bone is called the "pelvic outlet". It has a front-back measurement and a traverse one. The front back one has a little 'give' since it's the coccyx (tailbone) at the back. Average figures (Gray's 15th ed, p. 152)
Male : 3 1/4 in front to back; 3 1/2 traverse
Female: 5 in front to back; 4-4 3/4 traverse
Of course there are large pelves in certain people, not nec the taller ones, but the short wide women, for instance.
Both the rectum and vagina pass through this outlet[uterus on the upper side of the outlet, vulva on the lower side.. Ergo, unless something is deformed a bit, those are the maximum dimensions save for loosening of the joints.
These the diameter for the woman is about a 5 in circle or 12.7 centimeters. The dilation of the cervix and then vagina to 10 cm [in childbirth] , leaves 1.3 cm space for the vaginal wall, say about 1/2 in.
The circumference, for the woman, of that outlet is about 39 cm (15.3 ins); and iirc the circumference of a baby's head is average about 32 cm.
For males, the average circ. of the outlet is about 11 ins, or 28 cm.
These numbers agree with my 'beer bottle' proposal for the male (that that's about the max for something rigid), and the experience of double "fist "(palms together, cupped, fingers bunch and extended straight) for the female.
Check this stuff out.
