How many words?

This is my first post on Lit so take it easy on me ok.

A bit of an intro . . .
SWM, could be considered a senior but I like to think of myself a youngster, twice divorced, slim, experienced and a bit shy. Long time lurker and reader decided just a few days ago to join up.

Not sure if this is the correct place for this or not.
I would like advice and/or suggestions on a couple story lines that I am working on.
I have been told that my writing is descriptive, conversational and easy to read. Have also been told that I’m too descriptive and use far too many words.

Most of my story themes are straight forward but my challenge is that there is a sometimes convoluted and long backstory that ultimately leads into and explains some of the circumstances in the main topic.

How much is enough? How much lead in is needed/required?

How many words are enough?

I have my own thoughts on this but would appreciate any comments.

haventdonethat said:

This is my first post on Lit so take it easy on me ok.

A bit of an intro . . .
SWM, could be considered a senior but I like to think of myself a youngster, twice divorced, slim, experienced and a bit shy. Long time lurker and reader decided just a few days ago to join up.

Not sure if this is the correct place for this or not.
I would like advice and/or suggestions on a couple story lines that I am working on.
I have been told that my writing is descriptive, conversational and easy to read. Have also been told that I’m too descriptive and use far too many words.

Most of my story themes are straight forward but my challenge is that there is a sometimes convoluted and long backstory that ultimately leads into and explains some of the circumstances in the main topic.

How much is enough? How much lead in is needed/required?

How many words are enough?

I have my own thoughts on this but would appreciate any comments.

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Story lines for sharing or collaboration goes here, for rest of your questions you may get better discussion at Authors' Hangout forum section. Read there around first a bit, some such might be already discussed.

Minimum length of a story submission is 750 words. It can be fifteen 50 word stories collection if you like, but less than that 750 words at once won't be accepted.

A "Lit Page" is roughly 3,750 words. Less than that may be seen as very short by some, but depends upon the story of course. 3 Lit pages is considered about optimal chapter length in multi-part submission, as it is still short enough for readers with limited attention spans, however it is advised to not split up a story without damn good reason at least up to 10 lit pages and potentially even lot more. There is no practical upper limit. Story length is a recurring discussion, and the dominant opinion is, it should be as long as it should be. There's just one recent thread on that topic: How long is too long?

Generally, you should know about the backstory and character histories a lot more than the reader need to know, and tell as little as you can, and only when it's indeed relevant, not dump it all up front. Probably not an exact match to your question about lead in, but closely related topic: Characters description, how important are they?

haventdonethat said:

How many words are enough?

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The LIT story minimum is 750 words. Our pal Ogg writes 50-word stories and stacks 15 of them together to reach the lower limit. Poetry can be briefer.

How many words are right for you? Whatever feels right. I can think of a 4-chapter series where the entire first chapter is a sexless intro. Some try to work a data dump into the first paragraphs but that's lazy -- weave those background details into the fabric of the tale. Read successful stories here to see how they're structured. Then write, and see what works for you. Have fun!

My advice? Ignore them all. Even me.

Personally I like to get sexy as quickly as possible, and let the back story (if any) weave into the story. Then again, I write quite short stories, and have been told rather insistently that I could learn a lot from X, Y & Z - for reasons that elude me, to be honest.

Tastes vary. Find a style that is comfortable for you. Avoid adverbs, keep dialogue attribution clear and non-intrusive, and if you're exposition-heavy then you're probably writing it wrong.

Oh, and if you think Y is pretty amazing, please don't try and persuade me to agree with you...

First off this is the story idea page but don't feel bad it is a little hard to navigate the forums some times.

Secondly the intro to the story as well as the descriptive explanatory segments do not have a set limit to them and can be as short or as long as you feel are necessary.

All you need to do is keep in mind that your readers are interested in the characters and plot of the story more then the description of events or history that the characters may have.

A good rule of thumb would be to give the minimum information that is required to get your reader aware of what you think is important and then step back and re-read what you wrote for length. If you find that there is still room for explanation then go back in and add more but if it seems to run on and the flow of the story becomes slow or stale then reduce as much as you can.

Try to keep the story at a hot and cold flow where you lead in slowly with the information on the characters then build up interesting events that bring your readers interest higher before cooling off or getting to the hot and heavy parts.

that's the best advice I can give hope it helps.

haventdonethat said:

...How many words are enough?....

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first decide whether you're going to write pornography or literary erotica.

then write the story, "enough" is whatever is enough to tell the story. except to meet the publisher's requirements, don't write to a word limit, this isn't a high school writing assignment. then edit it down by (at least) a third, this will force you to cut sentences and phrases that aren't necessary. someone said to avoid adverbs, that's a good point. avoid the passive voice unless you know why you're using it.

have fun.

I can offer one advice. If your story relies on a backstory, don't start with that. That's a common mistake (one I made myself in earlier work). Start with something interesting to pull the reader in, and you can gradually divulge the backstory information as you go along. Maybe through conversations that mentions the necessary. It's usually a good idea to avoid info-dumps. Good luck!

Thank you to all for the advice.
The recurring thought seems to be “keep it to a minimum”, as in the backstory/leadin.
I’ll keep banging away, hopefully I can turn something out that will keep a reader interested.

haventdonethat said:

Thank you to all for the advice.
The recurring thought seems to be “keep it to a minimum”, as in the backstory/leadin.
I’ll keep banging away, hopefully I can turn something out that will keep a reader interested.

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Read some top stories here and out in the mainstream. Study how they are structured. It's most likely:
We're 3/4 through Heinlein's Starship Troopers before we learn the narrator Johnny is Filipino. I like that kind of delayed info.

Without any attempt to be sarchastic, consider Alice in Wonderland. “Begin at the beginning," the King said, very gravely, "and go on till you come to the end: then stop.”

Then there’s personal style. I write with as few words as possible, which pleases some and irritates others. Others have found a way to cram 30 words in place of 10, doing it so gracefully that readers are thrilled. Hemingway could use 100 word sentences. Go with your own style.

Good luck.

TarnishedPenny said:

Without any attempt to be sarchastic, consider Alice in Wonderland. “Begin at the beginning," the King said, very gravely, "and go on till you come to the end: then stop.”

Then there’s personal style. I write with as few words as possible, which pleases some and irritates others. Others have found a way to cram 30 words in place of 10, doing it so gracefully that readers are thrilled. Hemingway could use 100 word sentences. Go with your own style.

Good luck.

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it takes an exceptionally skilled writer to use 30 words in place of 10 and do it well.

deRudio said:

it takes an exceptionally skilled writer to use 30 words in place of 10 and do it well.

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Just so. Sadly, were that in my skill set, I could be selling War and Peace length novels.

TarnishedPenny said:

Just so. Sadly, were that in my skill set, I could be selling War and Peace length novels.

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if you like that short, to the point story, try some James Elllroy (LA Confidential).