He's not a Dom....

I'd like to have a discussion about whether or not someone can "become" a Dom. (or a sub, but in this case I am interested in the D type on a personal level, but I welcome thoughts from both ways.)

My soon to be ex has never, ever demonstrated a Dominant trait or characteristic in the almost 30 years I have known him. We've been married almost 24 years and the only time he ever did anything remotely D-like was when I would suggest/request it.

When I "came out" to him as a submissive a couple of years ago, he accepted it and we began exploring it together. I never was able to get the D vibe I needed from him and slowly over time I worked my way through my needs and wants and realized that together with many other massive problems in our marriage, I needed to end it. (I did not end the marriage to find BDSM fulfillment, it's just a side effect of it, lol).

A few months ago he suddenly told me that he's a Dominant. He says he's buried it since he was 18 since he thought he was a freak and that it was sick to "want to hurt someone you love". I tried to explain that wanting to be rough/hurt a partner doesn't necessarily mean you are Dominant, but perhaps a sadist or a Top. He continued to insist he's a Dom, and started "exploring the lifestyle" in our local community. It has been incredibly awkward to have him at events and making "friends" with people who have become very close friends of mine over the past year. I don't want to hold him back, I want him to do what he feels he needs to do, but I know deep down in my heart that he started this because he thought it might win me back, and is now continuing with it to "prove" that he really is a Dominant.

I've watched his actions and behaviors in the lifestyle and have still not seen a scintilla of Dominance from him. My friends and my Top/sadist/play partner say he may not seem Dom to me, but that doesn't mean he won't be to someone else. I get what they are saying, but a part of me still strongly disagrees. To me, a Dominant person has a certain mental set and an attitude that permeates his whole life, from work to leisure to relationships. I'm not saying that person is a Dominant in every area, just that a Dominant person thinks like a Dominant person, even if they don't act on it. My ex just does not think like a D type, ever. I'd be hard pressed to see him as a switch, a sub for sure, but a Dominant in any sense other than a bedroom Dom, no.

None of this would matter except I feel that he's doing this to get back at me and to still be in my "world" in some fashion. I think he's a fake and a poser and he's going to hurt the women he's getting involved with when he can't back up the talk with the walk. I just wish I could have this fulfilling new part of my life, that is going to be my life forever, to myself without my ex asshole around all the time. I feel manipulated and like I'm being forced to endure him being around just because he says he's a D.

Do you think someone can "become" Dominant? Do you think someone can hide every trace of Dominance for an entire lifetime and then suddenly start letting it out? Thanks for your thoughts, I know I need other viewpoints to consider and I appreciate those who take the time to share.

Yes, I do. Humans do all kinds of things suddenly and unexpectedly at late times in their lives.

And it's totally possible that he's fumbling like fuckall because he's never ever allowed himself to consider what his dominant self actually wants. The process of self discovery can take a long time for many of us.

However, your speculation about his motives sound about right. And oh how frustrating to have the person you're trying to leave behind -- follow. I wish you fortitude and a sense of humor.

Fortitude and a sense of humor thank you Stella, I'll take some of that as well.

And to the OP, I think you said it yourself. You have your own idea of what a Dom is, and it encompasses large parts of a person's life. Your Ex will have their own idea, people be meets will have an idea, and etc. It's kind of like saying they are <insert religion here>. Who can say if sometime is or isn't Christian or Buddhist or whatever. If that is how they identify, someone else is pretty hard pressed to say... No, you're not.

All that said, I feel for your predicament As per your description he is not a strong personality, so therefore he may drop by the wayside as he sees he will not win you back. The most important thing I would say is to make sure he doesn't see that he bothers you, as that does give him some control over you, no matter how small or how irritating for you. Can you ignore him completely? If there is any Dom inside of him whatsoever, that would be the worst punishment you could gracefully dole out.

Your ex isn't dominant by your personal definition, for you. That doesn't mean he isn't dominant. For example, your definition of dominant includes -

To me, a Dominant person has a certain mental set and an attitude that permeates his whole life, from work to leisure to relationships.

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For example, *to me* that description creates an image of an impossibly high "on" 24/7 standard, that doesn't appear realistic. *To me* that means that a dominant person can't be vulnerable, or have areas in their lives that are a bit messy, or whatever. *To me* that description may not fit a 'dominant person'; it may fit a controlling person.

I do believe that people can "become dominant" [or submissive], in that not everyone understands themselves early in life, or is able to easily shake off society's "rules" re: dominance [and submission]. I have had lovers who didn't "figure this stuff out" until they were in their late 40s or late 50s. They also had areas of life over which they may not have exercised the best control (fallout from divorce, business failures, personal choices that didn't fit the definition of "dominance", etc).

People may genuinely not know. For example, I was so sheltered, that at 19 (I married at 20) I had never heard of oral sex. I had no idea BDSM existed, until I was 32. Yet here I am, 10 years later (after a lot of self-exploration and work), comfortable and confidant as a submissive woman, capable of having a conscious, healthy D/s relationship. If someone like me can do that, why would it be any different for someone who is walking their own path to ID-ing as dominant?

My ex-husband did do something similar, in the first 18 months after I left. Just out of the blue, announced that he'd taken one of those online quizzes, and scored as dominant. He just thought I should know. You know.

"Oh. Ok."

And to myself I thought 'desperately wanting to control things, isn't control in my book...' and then I reminded myself that we all have our own paths to walk.

You're in a substantially more awkward position, given that you both choose to be active in your local community, and it is possible that he's participating just to irritate you [or win you back], but it still doesn't mean he isn't dominant.

You get your path; he gets his.

More or less I agree with what CM has to say about it. Just because you don't read him that way doesn't mean someone more submissive than you are might not. That's not a slam - it just has to do with match in personalities and right fit for D/s interaction.

Then, also, he might just be a kinky switch figuring out what the hell he even likes for sure - but see how far you get as a male in this scene if you come out as that when initially meeting anyone. I don't object to anyone's right to say they are a Dom if they're not entirely, any more than I object to someone's right to say their name is Dragonwind Dingleberry instead of their actual name at a munch - because the scene is so deeply riddled with sexism and Dom-ism.

The conversation a person has around the munch table and the conversation that a person has with a prospective partner are never ever the same. You, being an ex, don't have a place in that latter conversation any longer.

Keep him out of yours as well. Ick.

MeltformySir said:

None of this would matter except I feel that he's doing this to get back at me and to still be in my "world" in some fashion. I think he's a fake and a poser and he's going to hurt the women he's getting involved with when he can't back up the talk with the walk. I just wish I could have this fulfilling new part of my life, that is going to be my life forever, to myself without my ex asshole around all the time. I feel manipulated and like I'm being forced to endure him being around just because he says he's a D.

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Part of breaking up is no longer having even second-hand responsibility for your ex-partner's actions. If you think he's actually dangerous then it'd be reasonable to warn people, but it sounds like the potential "hurt the women he's getting involved with" you're talking about here is just disappointment at a mediocre dom? Like others have said here, those women may have different needs to yours; it's up to them to decide whether he can satisfy them.

I can relate very much to the annoyance of sharing the same social circle as an ex, but it's a free country. If you believe he's faking an interest in D/S as an attempt to hang on to you, it might be a good idea to tell him directly that it's not going to work that way?

Thanks a lot for the thoughts expressed here. I can't disagree with anything you've all written. I'm continuing to digest it all. I think I am just pissed because he's "following" me and I don't believe it's real, but if it isn't, time will show that.

I don't think a person with a 24/7 mindset is necessarily controlling (they certainly can be though) but I need to explain better what I meant about the fact that this man doesn't have a Domly bone in his body. I'm a very strong woman, but I'm also an extremely submissive one if the Dominant person can match me and meet me and guide me and inspire me to that. It's all on different levels, but I think everyone is that way. So yes, a not-very-Dom guy might be able to "Dom" a subbie, but since I *am* wanting a 24/7 type of relationship, I guess I cut that idea short shrift. I know he'll be a Dom to someone, but I suspect that the end of that is going to be hurt feelings and heartache when he can't keep up the facade for too long...but, as you all rightly pointed out, not my monkeys, not my circus. (unless he dives into deep depression again and it hurts our kids....)

He actually wrote to my Dom friend/play partner to ask that person to get me to do something that I wouldn't agree to directly with him. It blows my mind that someone who identifies as as D-type would ever consider it okay to turn to his ex-wife's play partner to make things happen. Oh well.... lol Thanks again, I am going to think more deeply about what you've all said. It's part of my journey of moving on and putting it alllll behind me, finally. That way when I do see him at events and scene-ing with others I won't even blink.

MeltformySir said:

He actually wrote to my Dom friend/play partner to ask that person to get me to do something that I wouldn't agree to directly with him. It blows my mind that someone who identifies as as D-type would ever consider it okay to turn to his ex-wife's play partner to make things happen.

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I'm surprised at this. It feels like a major overstepping of boundaries. It's absolutely none of my business, but this seems like... worrisome behaviour. It seems as though you are ok with this, so that's good that isn't bothering you. I would see this as overly controlling. Trying to influence what happens to you in your new relationship? and the expletive... Eek! As I believe Bramblethorn said, he is no longer your responsibility, but neither are you his. It doesn't sound like the ties are really cut here.

You have to lol at this stuff.


I hope your not-sufficiently-dominant ex goes on to have a highly fulfilling sex & lovelife, post-you.

Collar_N_Cuffs said:

I'm surprised at this. It feels like a major overstepping of boundaries. It's absolutely none of my business, but this seems like... worrisome behaviour. It seems as though you are ok with this, so that's good that isn't bothering you. I would see this as overly controlling. Trying to influence what happens to you in your new relationship? and the expletive... Eek! As I believe Bramblethorn said, he is no longer your responsibility, but neither are you his. It doesn't sound like the ties are really cut here.

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Oh no, I was NOT okay with it in any way shape or form. It wrecked any feelings of affection I had left for him and has left me with distaste as the only feeling I have left. After he did that, I had a big talk with him about appropriate things to do from now on, etc. He didn't think the consequences through, that's for sure. I was unbelievably angry and very embarrassed. I'm not angry any more, but I am still embarrassed, lol. He's got the message that it is NOT okay to ever do that again. It clarified that the only ties we have left are the kids.

rosco rathbone said:

You have to lol at this stuff.


I hope your not-sufficiently-dominant ex goes on to have a highly fulfilling sex & lovelife, post-you.

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Glad you find humor in it. I do too.

I also hope he goes on to have a highly fulfilling sex and love life, and I'd love it if it would be very, very soon.

I think it has to be a part of the person to be D, but can develop it or make it stand out more. They do have to have it inside them to do it. I was more dominant with my x wife because she really liked it and it was a turn on. My current wife doesn't like sex much so if i try it she just tells me no so its not a part of it now. I guess that is why I would enjoy a sub role because i would really like to know that someone who im with wants it as much as I do.

MeltformySir said:

After he did that, I had a big talk with him about appropriate things to do from now on, etc. He didn't think the consequences through, that's for sure. I was unbelievably angry and very embarrassed. I'm not angry any more, but I am still embarrassed, lol. He's got the message that it is NOT okay to ever do that again.

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Your original and subsequent posts set alarm bells off for me. I have to respect that you know your ex well enough that you would have seen some kind of Dom behaviour before now, after knowing him intimately for 30 years? Did you have an active sex life in that time?

How did he behave when you were giving him the talk?
Do you have mutual friends (of longer acquaintance) who know about the developments in your life who can speak with him, point out how troubling his behaviour is?
Does he have a mentor Dom you can approach?

I'm thinking if he considers himself a 'Dom' but hasn't understood all the intricacies of all that means, he may not take notice of a 'big talk' coming from someone he considers below his self-appointed position. Has he ignored your wishes in any other facets of life since you split?

I'm also thinking that if he attempts to insert himself into your BDSM life again, it may be worth researching how to take out a restraining order. I'm hoping that you do your play in private, as it sounds like he's not far from barging in and letting loose on you, without having the experience needed to restrain himself.

Then again, he may simply need to find himself, and thought of you as a familiar face in it all, someone to hang on to while he takes small steps.

EDIT: not terribly experienced in the BDSM lifestyle myself, this is just reminding me of a couple of friends' experiences, and what I learnt from seeing them.

MeltformySir said:

He actually wrote to my Dom friend/play partner to ask that person to get me to do something that I wouldn't agree to directly with him. It blows my mind that someone who identifies as as D-type would ever consider it okay to turn to his ex-wife's play partner to make things happen. Oh well.... lol Thanks again, I am going to think more deeply about what you've all said. It's part of my journey of moving on and putting it alllll behind me, finally. That way when I do see him at events and scene-ing with others I won't even blink.

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(Edited, should read) Um, ew.

Netzach said:

(Edited, should read) Um, ew.

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Yep. Such bad form. lol But, it's been a learning experience and I honestly am feeling better about it all just by being able to vent about it here. I KNOW that to someone, he'll be the perfect Dom, just as I KNOW he would never be able to be that for me. And even if he was, our marriage was beyond repair for countless other reasons, so it doesn't really matter.

redzinger said:

Your original and subsequent posts set alarm bells off for me. I have to respect that you know your ex well enough that you would have seen some kind of Dom behaviour before now, after knowing him intimately for 30 years? Did you have an active sex life in that time?

How did he behave when you were giving him the talk?
Do you have mutual friends (of longer acquaintance) who know about the developments in your life who can speak with him, point out how troubling his behaviour is?
Does he have a mentor Dom you can approach?

I'm thinking if he considers himself a 'Dom' but hasn't understood all the intricacies of all that means, he may not take notice of a 'big talk' coming from someone he considers below his self-appointed position. Has he ignored your wishes in any other facets of life since you split?

I'm also thinking that if he attempts to insert himself into your BDSM life again, it may be worth researching how to take out a restraining order. I'm hoping that you do your play in private, as it sounds like he's not far from barging in and letting loose on you, without having the experience needed to restrain himself.

Then again, he may simply need to find himself, and thought of you as a familiar face in it all, someone to hang on to while he takes small steps.

EDIT: not terribly experienced in the BDSM lifestyle myself, this is just reminding me of a couple of friends' experiences, and what I learnt from seeing them.

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Honestly, I think he is what you said there at the end...just thinking of me as a familiar face to hang on to. I am not worried that he'll try to get involved in my BDSM life again, because he knows he was thisclose to me going nuclear winter on him and that would make it difficult to co-parent our children. I am definitely going to think about things from this point of view, though, because it isn't one I have thought of before. Thank you.

My personal feeling is that a Dom personality is something that is very much part of your DNA. However, there can be various levels of domanance in a person's personality and sexuality and like other areas of life, there is a pecking order, just as there is in a corporate hierarchy or sports team or anything else. A Dom at on level or in a perticular environment may not demonstrate the same level as in another environment or situation. Likewise, I would say that not all subs are at the same level of submission in all circumstances. I have known women who sexual submissives but are anything but submissive in other circumstances.

A D/S relationship is based on rules and agreement between the partners involved. It's a choice but it's also part of their personality to accept and behave in a particular role under the rules of the relationship. The OP may not consider her husband's dominant traits because her level of sub traits are not as deep as some others. She may require a stronger Dom to fulfull her desire for submissiveness to him.

I may not have explained myself well, but it makes sense in my brain. Bottom line, I don't think a person can become a Dom unless he or she has those traits as part of their basic personality. However, they can be honed and fine tuned and grow.

amofiga said:

My personal feeling is that a Dom personality is something that is very much part of your DNA. However, there can be various levels of domanance in a person's personality and sexuality and like other areas of life, there is a pecking order, just as there is in a corporate hierarchy or sports team or anything else. A Dom at on level or in a perticular environment may not demonstrate the same level as in another environment or situation. Likewise, I would say that not all subs are at the same level of submission in all circumstances. I have known women who sexual submissives but are anything but submissive in other circumstances.

A D/S relationship is based on rules and agreement between the partners involved. It's a choice but it's also part of their personality to accept and behave in a particular role under the rules of the relationship. The OP may not consider her husband's dominant traits because her level of sub traits are not as deep as some others. She may require a stronger Dom to fulfull her desire for submissiveness to him.

I may not have explained myself well, but it makes sense in my brain. Bottom line, I don't think a person can become a Dom unless he or she has those traits as part of their basic personality. However, they can be honed and fine tuned and grow.

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I think your thoughts are very perceptive. I am a very strong person, yet extremely submissive as well. However, his type/amount/whatever of Dominance cannot inspire the depth of submission I wish to give.

You wrote:

MeltformySir said:

I don't think a person with a 24/7 mindset is necessarily controlling . . . I'm a very strong woman, but I'm also an extremely submissive one if the Dominant person can match me and meet me and guide me and inspire me to that.

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I think you have a very good idea of just how much variation there is between one end of the Dom (or sub) spectrum, and the other. The right blend is magic.

And I'm sure you'll connect with the right one sooner or later.

Keep asking q and reflecting and you'll be in a good space when you meet him.

I kind of feel you on the ex, WTF front.

Also that asking your Dom crap was way out of line.

I felt stung too to realize in hindsight that my evil ex could have made a decent Dom if he had only been willing to look at and embrace the grey inside rather than just see the world as black and white.

We would have fit better together if he had. And instead of rape it would have been consensual non consent. Maybe it wouldn't have taken me a few years to get my ability to orgasm back but well, shit, life is strange.

Also he quit smoking after he left me. Wouldn't do it for me. Fucking exes.

Happily he is now dead and not messing with our child's head activity. Even though she is still not done working through what he did when he was alive.

FurryFury said:

I kind of feel you on the ex, WTF front.

Also that asking your Dom crap was way out of line.

I felt stung too to realize in hindsight that my evil ex could have made a decent Dom if he had only been willing to look at and embrace the grey inside rather than just see the world as black and white.

We would have fit better together if he had. And instead of rape it would have been consensual non consent. Maybe it wouldn't have taken me a few years to get my ability to orgasm back but well, shit, life is strange.

Also he quit smoking after he left me. Wouldn't do it for me. Fucking exes.

Happily he is now dead and not messing with our child's head activity. Even though she is still not done working through what he did when he was alive.

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I'm sorry those things happened to you. It sounds pretty gruesome.

So, my almost ex went to his first event last weekend. (The one he asked me not to go to via my play partner/top/friend.) The people he was supposed to scene with didn't show up and the ones he knew beforehand and asked to scene with him that night were not able to do so. (Mostly because they are dear friends of mine and are uncomfortable playing with him like that.) So, he ended up not being able to do anything but watch. Now, in my opinion, that is for the best, but I know everyone needs to do things their own way. When I first started going to public events, I just watched and learned. I met people, asked questions, and learned how things "worked". I learned who was good at what activity, and got to know those people, then after several months asked them to do a scene with me so I could learn the proper way to bottom for a whip, for floggers, for canes, or whatever. I learned what a good, experienced and safe Top should do as well. It worked for me, but, whatever....

So, after he ended up not really having the best time at this event, he has emailed my partner AGAIN and asked for advice and help!! WTF??!? LEAVE MY FRIEND ALONE lol. Who does that??? I laugh, but seriously, who does that? My friend keeps saying it's okay, he doesn't mind giving him some advice, etc... but I think it's very weird. He wants to know how to meet people to scene with and stuff. I'm just shaking my head. I wanted to tell ex to leave my partner alone, but my partner is telling me to keep quiet, so I am. Grumbling about it, but I am doing it....

No worries. I'm good now and he is in the ground or perhaps ashes and ground bone. He wanted both. Not sure if his gf made that happen or not. LOL

MeltformySir said:

I'm sorry those things happened to you. It sounds pretty gruesome.

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Personally I don't think people change in any material way. It often seems that way because early in our lives we are conditioned by our surroundings and want to please those who raise us and guide our early years. Unfortunately a lot of parents/teachers/bosses try to mold who we will be - it doesn't work but it can fuck us up for decades trying to find our true selves (if they ever do). So when we see changes in people it is usually just that they are finally coming to grips with their true selves or reacting to external pressure but really fooling themselves.

Often the people closest to us see our true nature better than we do. I tend to think that strong dominant or submissive tendencies are difficult to hide, so it seems unlikely one would just happen to uncover them after 30+ years. Seems more like he is trying to be something he is not.

But then that assumes you have an objective perspective. Maybe your life conditioning has colored your view of him. In this day and age there is lots of pressure for men to be milquetoast and women to be tigers. Maybe you were both fooling yourself trying to play the role you thought you should. It sounds as though you "discovered" your own submissiveness fairly recently or did you know it all along and just came out a couple years ago? Would people who know you say this is more like the real you or would they think it is a put on?

In an odd way this is a test of your submissiveness. Your ex's actions are really none of your damn business other than the fact that he is communicating with your current play partner. A true Sub would state the concern to your current play partner but then accept his decision without reservation, not grudgingly. Maybe you aren't as Sub as you think.

SlutAddicted said:

In this day and age there is lots of pressure for men to be milquetoast and women to be tigers.

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This planet you have found, may I ask its coordinates? You're probably being confronted with the realization that there are people who don't think that being a Man entitles you to valuable prizes for having a penis and sometimes we don't have to hide from society. Rarely. We're glad you noticed, however we're not in charge of anything, we'd like to fucking exist here too, that's all.

SlutAddicted said:

A true Sub would state the concern to your current play partner but then accept his decision without reservation, not grudgingly. Maybe you aren't as Sub as you think.

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Maybe she's a good judge of her own safety and has reasons to get jumpy when the ex still seems to be fixated on things on the periphery of her sex life. Maybe it's actually fucking dangerous for women leaving relationships and maybe if her partner has any self preservation he'll listen to her.

What this has to do with whether a person is happy serving their partner is beyond me. I get service but I also realize that there's some shit about my partner that she knows better than I do.