Sex once this year

sjt2424 said:

Not sure where you are getting that I'm dishonest. Every single person who knows me would say I am brutally honest.

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Because I doubt that any woman would willingly stay after being told that you didn't even like them and that you often think they are the worst person in the world, so I find it unlikely you spelled it out the way you did here. I could be wrong. She may have issues of her own.

If I didn't want to work at this and hopefully fix it I don't know that I'd be asking for suggestions.

This thread is confusing

bigcockstallion said:

This thread is confusing

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What's confusing?

suckonsimon said:

Hey you lovely. I want you to know that as I read that post by sjt I was really, really angry, because you so obviously and clearly are not like that woman. Not remotely like that woman. Nobody reading your thread would even consider that you were 'the problem'.

So, well responded darling! Good on you!

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Thanks. I wasn't really sure how to respond. I'm sorry he has his own issues, but he has no idea what's going on here and his assessment is wrong.

NextDoorSecret said:

A little bit of diminishing... then things just seemed to stop. He had a temporary change in his shift at work for about 6 weeks and then we never seemed to make it back from there.

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There is a lot of information out there about the effect that shift work and changing work patterns can have on mental and physical health, although if he refuses to consider counselling or discussing it with a doctor it is difficult to know how to proceed. It may, of course, be nothing to do with it, but being on a different time frame can be difficult for any relationship.

NextDoorSecret said:

A rut. I'd have agreed. I did agree. That's when I tried a vacation somewhere stress free with him, no kids, no pressures.
So, how does one break out of a rut or do you believe that people can't stay monogamous and there is no solution?

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Many couples go through periods you could describe as a rut when sex becomes routine or absent, particularly when child rearing, but the length of time suggest there is more to it. I'm sorry to hear that a vacation did not help. Although sometimes if someone is worried about work, being away can add to the problem.

Of course people can be monogamous many remain so, even when sex has disappeared from the relationship. What concerns me is the apparent lack of affection he shows toward you.

NextDoorSecret said:

That's really sad, but not really applicable here I don't believe.
My house is clean, my kids are fed, and are not small. I work hard, both at home, and at work.
I'm not the worst person in the world. I'm caring and loving and have put his needs above my own for a long time. I'm smart, I'm educated, I'm supportive and loyal. I've actually asked if he wanted a divorce, I wouldn't make it hard for him and he knows that. We've been friends a very long time as well as a couple. I care about him on many, many levels as well as love him.
If he wanted out, he has that choice.
I am curious why you felt it necessary to try and make me feel bad and like I am somehow at fault here. Does spelling out what might be my deepest darkest fear get you off or are you just an ass? I don't quite understand what you were going for here.
I don't feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for your wife, because you clearly aren't being honest with her.
I've been honest with my husband.

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I think he is just venting his own problems and you were just a convenient target. I would pay it no heed. You are not the person he described.

NextDoorSecret said:

A rut. I'd have agreed. I did agree. That's when I tried a vacation somewhere stress free with him, no kids, no pressures.
So, how does one break out of a rut or do you believe that people can't stay monogamous and there is no solution?

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How do you get out of a rut? Simple, you make a right turn and climb out. Obviously, easier said than done. I realize your thread is about sex, (or the lack of it), but your problem is bigger than just lack of sex in your marriage. Your husband is in a rut, and can't see it. I'm not trying to be harsh or a smart-ass, but your problem isn't unique. There are a lot of people, perhaps even most people in the United States who have let their life deteriorate into this same routine of mundaneness. They sit there staring at the four walls, waiting on death. And metaphorically, you have to get your husband to see the fallacy of his own life before the final train leaves the station. I realize you're only in your forties, but you're going to be amazed at how quickly 20 or 30 years will go by when your life has become a routine of mundane.

I suspect your husband isn't happy either, he's just become complacent, and complacent isn't the same as happy. You have to get him to see that there is more to life than just watching the clock click off the days. If there is no excitement in his life, (and yours), then what is the point? When he learns to be excited about life again, believe me, his tally-wacker will start getting hard again, and he will naturally start looking for a place to put it. And when he starts looking for a place to put it, you will be the natural choice. He was excited about life when he met you, wasn't he? And I suspect sex was good for both of you then wasn't it? So if you want sex to be good again, you're going to have to get him excited about being alive again.

What is excitement? It is anything you want it to be, as long as it involves *both* of you. The world is your smorgasbord, (as it is everyone's), and excitement is whatever you want it to be. It can be skiing, or surfing, or rock climbing, or just bird watching, as long as both of you find it interesting and exciting. Something that breaks the same ol' boring daily routine.

For example: I recently read a story in the news about a multimillionaire who has spent his life collecting rare coins, jewels and other singular small artifacts. He apparently, (according to the news story), put about $1,000,000 worth of these artifacts in a box, and buried it somewhere in the rocky mountains. Occasionally, he releases clues as to where he buried this treasure, and people spend their weekends and vacations searching for it. Most, if any, will ever find it, but the point is, they do something exciting with their free time. They don't just sit home staring at the four walls, waiting on death. And I suspect that sex on their treasure hunt is probably pretty good too. Nothing like a good hump in the fresh, crisp, morning air of the rocky mountains with a bear sniffing your butt.

If you want good sex with your husband, you're going to have to get him turned on to life again. Have you ever read Terry Pratchett? Most people think he is a fantasy writer, but he is actually a satirist. In his book, "The Hogfather", the character Death made a statement that how amazed he was at human beings, "With all the wonders in the universe, humans have actually managed to invent boredom." Your husband has just created boredom in his life, and you need to get him out of that rut and back to living life again. He doesn't need a doctor or counseling, he just needs a life. When we have a life, trust me, our tally-wacker gets hard, it's only boredom that makes it limp.

How do you get his attention? By being blunt! You tell him, (in whatever words you choose), that he has let your lives as a married couple become a routine of mundaneness, and all that either of you are doing is sitting there watching the four walls, waiting on death. That sounds harsh, but living in a rut is harsh.

Hi NextDoorSecret, I know I haven't spoken up since my earlier post, but I have been following developments from the sidelines, I just didn't want to let my situation colour any advice posted for you, it is your thread after all.

I've seen a lot of good advice on here, and I've tried a lot of it over the years, obviously without 100% success. That doesn't mean that it's been a futile effort though, some things have changed. There was a time a few years back, when we were both in some seriously bad places, she was messed up and I was a wreck. At that time, with the exception of the kids references, sjt's post could easily have come from my wife. Looking back now, things weren't working long before that, but it reached a point where things had become more like open warfare than a relationship, and it wasn't doing anyone any good. I backed off first, got some serious help for my issues, and finally convinced her to at least listen. It has taken years, but were now at the stage of being fairly good housemates, with even limited affection being shown by her at times. It's a tolerable (ish) situation, but there's no real will on her side to move any further forward at the moment, so what happens next is anybody's guess. We do understand each other's viewpoints (although I tend to be the one that does most of the accommodating), and we know what the roots of the problem have been; fixing all of it is another matter, and still work in progress.

Of course, this is a totally different set of circumstances to those that seem to have led to where you are, and I can't say what will work for you or what won't, but from what you've said, I seriously doubt that any of it is your fault. As others have said, the worrying thing is the length of time he's been like this, and to show you little or no affection at all isn't fair, no matter what he does or doesn't want. That's just a basic human requirement. He certainly isn't happy whether he wants to admit it to himself or not, and from what you've said, it sounds to me like he's withdrawing from the problem (whatever it is) and shutting everything out. Hiding in a digital world of video games, where he has some control, and if it goes wrong, there's a reset button, could just be his retreat from reality, but this level isn't healthy. Now I suffer with clinical depression, and for me there's an awful lot of alarm bells going off here, and as I'm more than well aware, if it isn't dealt with, it can become a way of life, but you just don't see it from the inside. I'm not claiming that it's definitely the problem here, but a lot of men (myself included, in the past) see asking for help, or even admitting that they need help, as some kind of weakness that we're not supposed to show, and we get good at covering it up. To ourselves, at any rate. "Not a problem" and "everything's fine" tend to translate as "I don't want to deal with the problem right now, stop pushing my defenses". If he is trapped in there, the hardest thing he'll ever do is take that first step out, because it's a long road back, and it is scary.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, but I think he definitely needs to talk to someone about something. However, how you get through to him, I've no idea.

Anyway, the pm offer still stands, if you need it. Hell, HE can pm me if it'll help. I'm no councilor or anything, but if there's anything I can do, I will. Sometimes when a stranger tells you it's ok, it can make a world of difference. Just be careful how you break that one to him.

Take care, and good luck.

SV

I don't know what is worse, being single and not getting any, or being married to a spouse who has no sex drive, and who apparently doesn't give a damn that his wife wants sex more than once every year or so. Forget the rut talk. This is about a relationship where one partner is miserable and the other doesn't give a damn.

Have you looked into underlying medical issues? I see this a lot in guys with low testosterone. It's destructive to a healthy marriage, not only reducing sex drive, but also basic affection.

aussiegeekygal said:

Have you looked into underlying medical issues? I see this a lot in guys with low testosterone. It's destructive to a healthy marriage, not only reducing sex drive, but also basic affection.

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What's so desperate is that the guy apparently has not chosen to look into that. It doesn't even have to be a doctor's appointment. There are fitness shops full of testo-build pills. The internet is awash with sex drive enhancement pills and it's not so difficult to sort the stuff that works from the sawdust of which there is plenty. A little concern on his part, a little imagination, a little effort, and he could rise to being something of a husband for her. I want to grab him by the collar and spell out to him the misery he's settled into accepting.

I know something akin to this: my woman had severe depression for just over two years. During that time there was an 18 month period with no sex and most offers of affection were perceived as threat by her. It was extremely demanding on all fronts for her and on several fronts for me. Eventually the counselling and work changes enabled her to get turned around. And then she found that there were changes had set in which made intercourse unpleasant for her. So she took that issue to the doctor. Two attempts with medications made no difference. Was my girl going to leave it at that? No. She sought further consultation and different medication. We're back on honeymoon.

She did that for me, as much as for herself. There's married love and commitment in action.

I think you're worth more

Why do you stay with someone who doesn't make you believe you are the sexiest woman in the world? Who doesn't even try?

I believe in marriage ...but...

I have been through it. And so has the incredible lady i am now dating. It is a fact that you can dearly love someone and be incompatible sexually, and in the showing love department. How someone shows love is usually very important to the person they are joined with. If he shows his love one way, not to mention not very much, and you want to recieve it other ways, you probably want to give it the way you show it to, it seems to be the golden rule, then there will definately be a point of conflict. I agree with Simon. He broke his vows, but you still love him and want to be in love with him. I think that you might need to stop talking to him about what you want from him because you are obviously not going to get it, and start talking to him about what your options are. ie, open marriage, separation, maybe let him know that ,if not him it will be somebody.
It is a very hard discussion to have but it is time for him to decide if he can let you go because he isn't fulfilling you.

NextDoorSecret said:

We've had sex once this year, 14 months actually. 3 times the previous year.
How do I accept that this is my life now, or do I not just accept it?
I'm starved for touch, for real companionship and yet loyalty, history and love keep me here.
I've tried everything under the sun. I'm out of ideas.
Maybe someone else has some?

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Forgive me, lovely woman, but might I suggest you, instead, focus on why you stay. Loyalty, history, even love, only go so far.

The truly dangerous thing about relationship situations like this is that the partner who desires sex the least holds ALL of the power. On some level, some married partners get addicted (in a sense) to having all the power and they will fight tooth and nail to keep it. To make matters worse, they may have had this power so long that they no longer even recognize the source of the power.

He may be deriving a great deal of psychological pleasure from withholding sex without even knowing that that's what's going on.

midwestyankee said:

The truly dangerous thing about relationship situations like this is that the partner who desires sex the least holds ALL of the power. On some level, some married partners get addicted (in a sense) to having all the power and they will fight tooth and nail to keep it. To make matters worse, they may have had this power so long that they no longer even recognize the source of the power.

He may be deriving a great deal of psychological pleasure from withholding sex without even knowing that that's what's going on.

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I read this and first thought - yeah I am with this - isn't power play ugly. So I have a check around to see what articles there are on this... Ultimately and sadly no real surprise most of the writings were in terms of denial being something evil women do unto their male partners - then I came across this http://skepchick.org/2014/08/withholding-sex-and-other-lies/ which is kind of really good -

Of course there could be a myriad of reasons why libido fluctuates or drops away - but diminishing sex encounters within a relationship is a symptom not a cause.

If the problem stems from communication issues it may well be that denial of listening outweighs a lack of expression.

Communication - so easy - yet some choose to make it so difficult.

The link is interesting but not at all pertinent to OP's situation, I don't think.

NightL said:

I read this and first thought - yeah I am with this - isn't power play ugly. So I have a check around to see what articles there are on this... Ultimately and sadly no real surprise most of the writings were in terms of denial being something evil women do unto their male partners - then I came across this http://skepchick.org/2014/08/withholding-sex-and-other-lies/ which is kind of really good -

Of course there could be a myriad of reasons why libido fluctuates or drops away - but diminishing sex encounters within a relationship is a symptom not a cause.

If the problem stems from communication issues it may well be that denial of listening outweighs a lack of expression.

Communication - so easy - yet some choose to make it so difficult.

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I see this idea about it being a communication problem come up a lot. It seems to me that more often than not, the person that is unwilling to communicate about the sex or in denial about the lack-a-nookie is the partner that is (in fact) with-holding sex. The partner that is resistant to some form of intimate encounter more often than not responds that "It hasn't been "that long" has it?" I think Yankee has it right. At some point they may not even realize that they are actively avoiding sex and reaping benefits from that.

I realize it is all modern and forward thinking to say that no one owes anyone sex. Alienation of affection is an actual charge. Still enforceable in some states. Taking the affection away from the person that it "belongs" to.

There is no point in being in a sexless, monogamous relationship of any description. There is, without a doubt, an expectation that entering into an exclusive relationship "forsaking all others" will not mean living in a sexless marriage. If your sexual conduct is not the exclusive domain of the other person why is the relationship monogamous? If it gets to the point where the parties are so estranged sexually that one of them cannot picture sex as a fulfilling part of the relationship, what would be the point of restricting your partner to be faithful?

You can have all of the platonic friends of any gender you wish that you are not sexual with.

She has a point that when things are not idyllic, no one feels sexual. She ignores the fact that the lack of sexual activity can easily exacerbate tension as you do not have the calming, soothing, bonding, oxytocin releasing sex to smooth out the bumps. The nut-case blogger closes with "use your words." The guy that she is attempting to castigate quite obviously did. He not only identified and communicated the problem, he definitely listened to her responses to his entreaties for intimacy. He wrote them down.

midwestyankee said:

The truly dangerous thing about relationship situations like this is that the partner who desires sex the least holds ALL of the power. On some level, some married partners get addicted (in a sense) to having all the power and they will fight tooth and nail to keep it. To make matters worse, they may have had this power so long that they no longer even recognize the source of the power.

He may be deriving a great deal of psychological pleasure from withholding sex without even knowing that that's what's going on.

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The other thing that is also dangerous is that humans are sexual creatures. It is one thing to decide for a variety of reasons to be celibate. It is quite another to have strong sexual desires and feel that one has no outlet to express that desire physically with another human being. Nothing is as lonely as a sexless marital bed. Being single and having no current prospect is not at all the same thing. One can picture how that might change.

Statistically, both partners in a sexless marriage (as defined by having sex less than 10x per year) are at risk for having an affair. Any attention from someone outside the marriage will be a refreshing oasis of sexual validation. Ironically I have noticed anecdotally that it is often the with-holding partner that ends up having an affair. Possibly because the not with-holding partner tends to try not to get caught. If the with-holding partner has an affair that usually ends the marriage. If the sexually interested partner does sometimes the marriage survives.

Please understand that I am not qualified - for a lot of reasons - to offer advice on this but I feel compelled to.

It seems to me that in any relationship, there are several requirements to make it healthy. One is mutual respect and consideration. He OWES you that. One of the contributors mentioned that no one owes sex to anyone. Perhaps not, even though in a marriage that is at least debatable to me. But warmth, affection, and consideration of one's needs are obligations in marriage. You certainly sound worthy of those small but vital gestures.

I am going out on a limb here but I don't believe his attitude is a passive disinterest in sex and affection. I think he is withholding those things because he understands very well how important they are to you. You mentioned having a high sex drive; I'm sure he knows that and is withholding sex to somehow punish or hurt you. To me, his actions show deep anger and resentment. And over the years I have found that that kind of anger, while often directed at a specific person, may not be caused by that person.

If one's spouse needed some kind of medicine to stay healthy, it would be cruel not to provide it; if your child needed psychological help and you were able to provide it but didn't, that would be cruel. If a thirsty person needed water and you didn't provide it, that is cruelty. These examples may sound melodramatic but I firmly believe your husband is being deliberately cruel. I say this because you have tried over and over - offered counseling, tried to seduce him, talked to him etc - and not only has he not acted, he hasn't even tried to act apparently. That is cruelty.

Perhaps there is a way to repair all this and he may change, but if he has no interest in trying I don't see how. The question for me then is which is worse - tolerating cruelty from a spouse and facing a life of deepening frustration or finding a way to break the bonds of marital fealty and try to fulfill some basic life needs over the next few years. You are too young to just give it up.

Que said:

Ironically I have noticed anecdotally that it is often the with-holding partner that ends up having an affair.

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NightL said:

but diminishing sex encounters within a relationship is a symptom not a cause.

If the problem stems from communication issues it may well be that denial of listening outweighs a lack of expression.

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and that is why some failing relationships should look beyond "Hey, how 'bout a little...?" "No!" for their answers.

I'm in a similar situation except my wife is the one uninterested and only one child. The best help I found is therapy both individual and couples counciling. An affair will probably make it hurt worse and is just an escape. Could he have a depression problem? Another source for insight for me was the book on love languages. My wife and I express love and affection differently. Hang in it can get better.

NightL said:

and that is why some failing relationships should look beyond "Hey, how 'bout a little...?" "No!" for their answers.

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Valid. Combined with Ebon's comments above, it's worth noting that there are often unexpressed resentments in sex less marriages.

He raises a very good point that often those resentments may or may not be spouse specific it could be work or life circumstances that's causing the person to turn inward.

Forgive me if I am repeating what someone has said, I did read the thread but it was disgustingly early when I did so.

....so, I can't shake the thought that there must have been an emotional/psychological need or problem that went unaddressed or was dismissed by one or both that has now fueled enough resentment that sex, even for the sake of biological function isn't on the table.

I have been the wife asking "...but why" before, and while on the surface and in my soul searching I was absolutely positive I had done everything one could be expected to do to make life a rose garden for my husband, it wasn't until I did the autopsy on the remains of my marriage that I discovered my part was actually thinking 'I' had the kind of power/ability to FIX it from the start. What was needed was for me to stop trying to martyr myself but to kick our butts into therapy and let a pro do what they do.

I am loath to admit it, but maybe the first step is to stop trying to be your partners' therapist.

Riles said:

What was needed was for me to stop trying to martyr myself but to kick our butts into therapy and let a pro do what they do.

I am loath to admit it, but maybe the first step is to stop trying to be your partners' therapist.

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and that is HIGHLY sound advice.

What happens in a sex therapy session?

NextDoorSecret - if you feel your husband may be reluctant, make an appointment for yourself first - discuss with the therapist how to raise the issue at home.

Riles said:

Forgive me if I am repeating what someone has said, I did read the thread but it was disgustingly early when I did so.

....so, I can't shake the thought that there must have been an emotional/psychological need or problem that went unaddressed or was dismissed by one or both that has now fueled enough resentment that sex, even for the sake of biological function isn't on the table.

I have been the wife asking "...but why" before, and while on the surface and in my soul searching I was absolutely positive I had done everything one could be expected to do to make life a rose garden for my husband, it wasn't until I did the autopsy on the remains of my marriage that I discovered my part was actually thinking 'I' had the kind of power/ability to FIX it from the start. What was needed was for me to stop trying to martyr myself but to kick our butts into therapy and let a pro do what they do.

I am loath to admit it, but maybe the first step is to stop trying to be your partners' therapist.

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I like the way you characterize it as an autopsy. The autopsy I performed took a couple of years a lot of reading. 2 years seems a reasonable length of time to analyze two decades. It was really amazing the clarity that one has when one is no longer in the situation.