Pro authors?

Google used to have translations for Pig Latin, Pirate and Australian. They seem to have dropped them.

rj

KindofHere said:

Turning to Simon & Schuster's decision to cancel his book (after having paid the author a $300,000 advance) on the grounds of taste, Mr. Ellis said he was distressed

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I would be very distressed if a publisher paid me $300,000 and then gave me back the rights so I could sell my book again, while creating a commotion guaranteed to boost my sales.

...wait, not "distressed", the other thing. ;-)

Bramblethorn said:

I would be very distressed if a publisher paid me $300,000 and then gave me back the rights so I could sell my book again, while creating a commotion guaranteed to boost my sales.

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Otherwise known as "The Milo Yiannopoulos Effect"?

For those who don't "get it," an advance is nonrefundable (barring fraud in the deal).

Bramblethorn said:

...wait, not "distressed", the other thing. ;-)

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"Undressed?"

...............

KindofHere said:

I don't know who you're addressing or why the advance is important to you, but the point of the post was to show that it's the publishers that decide what they print in the end, even if it means losing money.

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I was explaining the point of Post 73 (responding to one of your posts) to make sure readers not knowing how advances work (which maybe you don't) would understand why getting a $300,000 advance and then handed your manuscript back with a "no thanks, peddle it elsewhere" would be one of the best things that ever could happen you, as an author. You don't have return the advance. It's free money. It's a house in the suburbs.

I write about a fairly technical subject at work for an audience that generally knows nothing about it. A long time ago I had a boss who gave me some robust advice on the use of language. Since then I go to some effort to make my prose simple to read.

But no, I've never had anything published outside of the odd trade magazine.

rjordan said:

He who writes the checks, writes the rules. The readers are way down the line.

Years ago I was helping out with booth duty at a trade show for a publisher of auto books I did some work for. I was dutifully explaining all the features of a line of books to one of their large distributors. He said to me, "I don't give a fuck if it's 300 blank pages as long as it sells and doesn't get returned." That's the first customer that needs to be to satisfied. He sells to a retailer. Then it gets to the faithful reader.

As Tex said, it's business.

rj

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Ha. This is why I am my own publisher. I make the rules. I write the checks.

Selena_Kitt said:

Ha. This is why I am my own publisher. I make the rules. I write the checks.

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Lol. So there's no checks on you.

Selena_Kitt said:

Ha. This is why I am my own publisher. I make the rules. I write the checks.

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O/T

good lord, where have YOU been?

A lot of commercial publishers have fairly/extremely rigid rules on what they will accept. Most of it is PC based and about as worthwhile. (Read that as meaningless.)

As an example; 50 shades was self published and it was a HUGE blockbuster that turned into a fairly successful film yet NO commercial publisher would touch it. They still wouldn't today EVEN KNOWING it would be a hit if they did. One must wonder why.

The answer lies in lawsuits and libraries. Most publishers sell books to libraries and must follow their guidelines even though they (supposedly) are required to purchase across the spectrum, including porn, so nothing should be unacceptable to them except illegal works. Plus, the publishing industry is a huge financial targets for the fringe element to obsess over whenever they publish even slightly risque books.

Yet there's 50 shades... And Lit. And a host of other erotica sites. All of which seem to have high traffic numbers so someone must be wanting to read more than shallow unbelievable smut. (I know, I've read what's here too. It's shallow and unbelievable a lot of the time but it's not just smut. Or not the same KIND of smut.)

What I think is that the publishing industry is Shakespearean in it's thinking and revolutionary (as in the American Revolution) in it's production and distribution network. It's all yesterday's news and methodology. Which is great if that's your thing, but not so good news if you like reading or writing trendy or edgy reading materials which reflect today's tastes.

What would be REALLY COOL would be if somehow Lit (including a form of Laurel's rules which are really there to protect against prosecution for obscenity and violations of other similar or worse laws) could be morphed into a site where people could come and read what they want for low cost ($.50 / download as an e-book flat rate for everything / anything on the shelf). Set it up like B&N with sections and let the electronic shelves fill up. And, like that mail-order mega-warehouse company with the smirking smile on the box, have reviews right on the book page so people could see if what they're interested in is worth the money. Half the sale would go to the author and half for the site. Win-win.

The idea would turn the publishing world on it's head. The market is virtually unlimited for any burgeoning author of any worth who will NEVER get published in the traditional publishing world because of their rules if they write outside those rules no matter how skillfully done. The potential profits on such an open book site are astronomical for both authors and the site. All it would take is good code and algorithms and a host of reviewers with open minds. And money. And time. Which always seem to be in short supply.

Seriously, would you read books from a website that doesn't track you, use cookies to track you, overload your computer with ads from Amazon, Walmart, Houzz, or anyone else, and has anything and everything you ever wanted to read (legally) for $.50/download and is secure? I would.

Nice post above.

The erotica books on shelves are usually tame. Ive always assumed, and still do, that authors sometimes hold back because it can be embarrasing. Here, people can write about gloryholes and cum filled mouths because its all anonymous

HisArpy said:

A lot of commercial publishers have fairly/extremely rigid rules on what they will accept. Most of it is PC based and about as worthwhile. (Read that as meaningless.)

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OK, I'm reading no further in this. Publishers know their niche or they don't make a profit and they go away. The business of book publishing is establishing a sales niche and serving that niche. Often it's based on the reading interests of the ones starting the publishing venture. No, they don't willy-nilly pick whatever came in that seems best written for that day or even the kickiest manuscript they've received since noon--or that YOU wrote and think is the cat's pajamas. They have a general marketing plan and a target buyer pool they sell to. They establish a list and fill holes in that list with their selection. And if they do it wrong, they get plowed under. So, sorry you start of your post behind the knowledge eight-ball.

HeyAll said:

Nice post above.

The erotica books on shelves are usually tame. Ive always assumed, and still do, that authors sometimes hold back because it can be embarrasing. Here, people can write about gloryholes and cum filled mouths because its all anonymous

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At one time you could walk into an adult bookstore and get all the extreme porn you wanted (they still have it--those adult stores that are still open). The Internet brought anonymity to buying porn, though, so now most people buy it on the Net. You didn't find more than the tame on regular bookstore shelves because that's not where it was bought, either before or now, and regular bookstores didn't want to be hassled about selling it--and didn't have to sell it; it's not where buyers went to buy it. But there were publishers publishing it and knowing where to sell it--or not being able to stay in business.

You always could find it if you were willing to walk into an adult bookstore and look on the shelves. Now there's a lot more of it because it's a lot easier to buy off the Internet than in a store. You can buy porn every bit as racy on the Net as you can read here--some topics racier (underage), some tamer than here (e.g., incest), but that's based on what publisher/distributor wants to deal in what.

There's nothing I write to Literotica that I'm not also selling in the marketplace--through publishers. And I write on some really extreme fetishes because they sell.

I have no idea with HisArpy wrote on this, as that post lost me from the get go, but what I'm seeing here is a whole lot of standing on the outside and looking inside and speculating based on little knowledge.

HisArpy said:

A lot of commercial publishers have fairly/extremely rigid rules on what they will accept. Most of it is PC based and about as worthwhile. (Read that as meaningless.)

As an example; 50 shades was self published and it was a HUGE blockbuster that turned into a fairly successful film yet NO commercial publisher would touch it. They still wouldn't today EVEN KNOWING it would be a hit if they did.

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...except that they did. 50SoG did start out as self-pub but Random House picked it up in 2012, as soon as it became clear that it was a hit.

The answer lies in lawsuits and libraries. Most publishers sell books to libraries and must follow their guidelines even though they (supposedly) are required to purchase across the spectrum, including porn, so nothing should be unacceptable to them except illegal works.

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I hadn't heard this explanation before, but I'm interested in learning more about it - can you link to a source for this?

What would be REALLY COOL would be if somehow Lit (including a form of Laurel's rules which are really there to protect against prosecution for obscenity and violations of other similar or worse laws) could be morphed into a site where people could come and read what they want for low cost ($.50 / download as an e-book flat rate for everything / anything on the shelf). Set it up like B&N with sections and let the electronic shelves fill up. And, like that mail-order mega-warehouse company with the smirking smile on the box, have reviews right on the book page so people could see if what they're interested in is worth the money. Half the sale would go to the author and half for the site. Win-win.

...

Seriously, would you read books from a website that doesn't track you, use cookies to track you, overload your computer with ads from Amazon, Walmart, Houzz, or anyone else, and has anything and everything you ever wanted to read (legally) for $.50/download and is secure? I would.

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What would the differences be between this and something like Smashwords? (other than the fact that SW authors set their own prices, which is probably a good idea, since flat price per download encourages people to flood the site with millions of tiny storylets)

HisArpy said:

The answer lies in lawsuits and libraries. Most publishers sell books to libraries and must follow their guidelines even though they (supposedly) are required to purchase across the spectrum, including porn, so nothing should be unacceptable to them except illegal works.

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I've written for all the major automotive and motorcycle publishers here and the UK and worked for some in executive capacities. None of them considered libraries as particularly important customers. They sold to them, but most libraries only bought a few copies each and insisted on deep discounts usually only available to distributors who bought thousands of copies. They were a pain in the ass to deal with as they were usually government entities. It was far more profitable to sell to even a small regional distributor who bought thousands of books at a time.

It costs a lot less to sell thousands of books to one customer than to sell one book to thousands of customers.

The idea that libraries exert much if any influence over book publishers is laughable. They just aren't worth it. If you want to sell to them, you have to follow their guidelines, but they are procurement guidelines, not content guidelines.

Individual library systems are not compelled to purchase "across the spectrum". They serve particular communities and answer to their own community's interests. If you know otherwise, a citation would be helpful.

rj

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HeyAll said:

Nice post above.

The erotica books on shelves are usually tame. Ive always assumed, and still do, that authors sometimes hold back because it can be embarrasing. Here, people can write about gloryholes and cum filled mouths because its all anonymous

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It's where you look. Bookstores, yes, but online, it's all there. Amazon and the rest may steer away from incest for example, but there's publishers that sell it along with all those other niches Pilot talks about. And 50 Shades went mainstream fast enough - followed by all the spinoffs as publishers realized there was a big market for that type of book. What you're talking about already exists with smashwords and a whole lot of niche publishers that you don't ever hear about.

You just have to look at Selena Kitt and her publishing company for a good example of someone meeting demand in this niche.

Some commercial realities. My niece is a reasonably successful author of childrens books. Prior to 2008 she was a fairly successful TV script writer. Then came the GFC; but Australia did not have a recession we had a mining boom. Result - the Australian dollar appreciated 35% against the $US and Australian scriptwriters were suddenly too expensive and work dried up.

She was lucky, a quite well known author had a mental breakdown and the niece's agent was told 'we (the publishers) have a market for a particular product in the pre-teen early teen group - have you got anyone who can fill the order.' The agent asked the niece who had a crack at it. A bit more than 14 weeks later it was in print in time for Christmas. After 9 years and about twenty titles, she is making about 70K pa in Royalties. It was very tough in the early years. Only about 4 years ago one publisher told her that they only stuck with her because she is:-

1 Organized.
2 Always meets deadlines.
3 Writes to the specified market.
4 Is a top marketer and saleswoman.

The original author got over her illness which is good but the publishers did not recover so well. They decided that her contract should be terminated. She was too much of a commercial risk.

Now in 2017 the A$ has fallen back to 78% of the US$ and the script-writing market has picked up?

Tough business.

ishtat said:

Only about 4 years ago one publisher told her that they only stuck with her because she is:-

1 Organized.
2 Always meets deadlines.
3 Writes to the specified market.
4 Is a top marketer and saleswoman.

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The same positive attributes for any outside vendor in any industry.

It's the publisher's job to supply finished product that their customers will buy, then convince them to buy it with marketing. The writer provides just one input to the process.

rj

I have had three agents in my life (so far). The best of them, a former editor and publisher turned agent, used to say: 'Your editor is your writing partner; your publisher is your business partner.' I think that Ray had it about right.

ishtat said:

1 Organized.
2 Always meets deadlines.
3 Writes to the specified market.
4 Is a top marketer and saleswoman.

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A variant I've heard on this is that a writer should pick at least two out of "makes deadlines", "writes well", and "pleasant to work with".

Now in 2017 the A$ has fallen back to 78% of the US$ and the script-writing market has picked up?

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I'm surprised they don't just pay in USD and let the writers deal with exchange fluctuations.

Pilot...

Have you never heard of a publisher anywhere that went broke?

Because I have, and many of them too.

There is no such thing as 'commercial publishers' who 'know their market' and can guarantee to make themselves a profit. If there were, when I was lead manager for a well-known investment bank in Chicago, we would have thrust zillions at them and bought them all out and sailed away to whatever perfect business Universe you seem to be in, traveling First Class all the way or in owned not leased, private jets or computerized sail ships.

The big 'publishing houses' still around today are all driven by political interests. Murdoch, Adelson, the Russians, even the late Stanley Ho's Golden Harvest and Golden Phoenix and its offshoots. Conde Nast in Paris is the reason Macron got elected and there is only one German publisher behind basically everyone else there. The 'women's interests and/or Romance' titles are all owned by exactly the same main brands.

Stop talking down to the young kids today who could easily take your self-confidence as some kind of inner folkloric reality of the writing world; it isn't. It's YOUR experience of the way YOU do things. And it might not suit all others.

Publishing, if it is anything, is definitely not a 'one-size-fits-all' kind of business. If it even is a business at all. I prefer to use that old standby, 'it's a gentleman's pastime.' Or a lady's. Or a transgender's. And so on ad infinitum of whatever CNN, oh wait - THEY are being forced to sell out to Time-Warner; aka, they have gone broke no sooner than bin Salman froze the accounts of those political backers in Riyadh.

Desiremakesmeweak said:

Pilot...

Have you never heard of a publisher anywhere that went broke?

Because I have, and many of them too.

There is no such thing as 'commercial publishers' who 'know their market' and can guarantee to make themselves a profit. If there were, when I was lead manager for a well-known investment bank in Chicago, we would have thrust zillions at them and bought them all out and sailed away to whatever perfect business Universe you seem to be in, traveling First Class all the way or in owned not leased, private jets or computerized sail ships.

The big 'publishing houses' still around today are all driven by political interests. Murdoch, Adelson, the Russians, even the late Stanley Ho's Golden Harvest and Golden Phoenix and its offshoots. Conde Nast in Paris is the reason Macron got elected and there is only one German publisher behind basically everyone else there. The 'women's interests and/or Romance' titles are all owned by exactly the same main brands.

Stop talking down to the young kids today who could easily take your self-confidence as some kind of inner folkloric reality of the writing world; it isn't. It's YOUR experience of the way YOU do things. And it might not suit all others.

Publishing, if it is anything, is definitely not a 'one-size-fits-all' kind of business. If it even is a business at all. I prefer to use that old standby, 'it's a gentleman's pastime.' Or a lady's. Or a transgender's. And so on ad infinitum of whatever CNN, oh wait - THEY are being forced to sell out to Time-Warner; aka, they have gone broke no sooner than bin Salman froze the accounts of those political backers in Riyadh.

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All this says to me is that you did not read what Pilot posted.

You may know banking and i kind of doubt that but you have no idea how publishers and publishing work. You think you do but you don't.