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Hypoxia said:
And Europeans now have plenty of African, Arab, Muslim, Asian etc folks to hate and fuck-over. Cue the studly ISIS recruiters.
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I do believe the French have been writing interracial kink erotica about well-hung Algerians for some time.

LizzysFriend said:
I have no idea why this country "thinks" it has a race problem.
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Probably has something to do with people getting denied things like employment, housing, freedom or life because of race. Also there's the very vocal part of the American electorate that really really wants that to keep happening. Of course every country has to attend to its own version of these problems.

What this country doesn't do is tell the truth.
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Especially about its race problem. ;)
 
LizzysFriend said:
I have no idea why this country "thinks" it has a race problem. I have traveled the world and by far USA is the place to be in that if you want to get ahead, you can with work.
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https://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html

In response to help-wanted ads in Chicago and Boston newspapers, [NBER researchers] sent resumes with either African-American- or white-sounding names and then measured the number of callbacks each resume received for interviews. Thus, they experimentally manipulated perception of race via the name on the resume. Half of the applicants were assigned African-American names that are "remarkably common" in the black population, the other half white sounding names, such as Emily Walsh or Greg Baker.

To see how the credentials of job applicants affect discrimination, the authors varied the quality of the resumes they used in response to a given ad. Higher quality applicants were given a little more labor market experience on average and fewer holes in their employment history. They were also portrayed as more likely to have an email address, to have completed some certification degree, to possess foreign language skills, or to have been awarded some honors...

The results indicate large racial differences in callback rates to a phone line with a voice mailbox attached and a message recorded by someone of the appropriate race and gender. Job applicants with white names needed to send about 10 resumes to get one callback; those with African-American names needed to send around 15 resumes to get one callback. This would suggest either employer prejudice or employer perception that race signals lower productivity.

...a white name yields as many more callbacks as an additional eight years of experience. Race, the authors add, also affects the reward to having a better resume. Whites with higher quality resumes received 30 percent more callbacks than whites with lower quality resumes. But the positive impact of a better resume for those with Africa-American names was much smaller... "Discrimination therefore appears to bite twice, making it harder not only for African-Americans to find a job but also to improve their employability."
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A similar experiment explored how race and criminal record affect job-seeking:
http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/pager/files/pager_ajs.pdf

It reports that for otherwise-equivalent applications, 14% of blacks without criminal records received callbacks, compared to 17% of whites with criminal records and 34% of whites without records.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/19...rgency-medicine-white-patients-black-patients

Black patients with broken arms or legs were less likely to be given painkillers in an Atlanta emergency room than white patients with similar injuries and complaints of pain, a new study has found.

Researchers at Emory University School of Medicine in Atlanta examined the charts of 127 black patients and 90 white patients treated by 37 doctors at the hospital, which was not identified, from 1992 to 1995. They found that 43 percent of black patients with fractures of the extremities received no pain medication in the emergency room, while 26 percent of white patients with similar injuries went untreated for pain. ... A similar study in Los Angeles, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1993, found that white patients with broken bones were 64 percent more likely than Hispanic patients with similar fractures to receive pain medication in the emergency room.
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I could go on all night posting more research like this, but it's past my bedtime. Suffice it to say, yes, the USA has serious racial inequities.
 
Bramblethorn said:
https://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html



A similar experiment explored how race and criminal record affect job-seeking:
http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/pager/files/pager_ajs.pdf

It reports that for otherwise-equivalent applications, 14% of blacks without criminal records received callbacks, compared to 17% of whites with criminal records and 34% of whites without records.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/19...rgency-medicine-white-patients-black-patients



I could go on all night posting more research like this, but it's past my bedtime. Suffice it to say, yes, the USA has serious racial inequities.
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Do those studies take into account who owns the business?

Its always a black on white thing when it comes to race in the media and the US. Latino on black racism, black on Asian racism, Indian vs. Pakistani racism, none of those other subsects get the same play.

It is not always the big, bad white man keeping the black man down in the mud. Ask the Korean shop owner having to protect his store with a shotgun to keep looters away during a riot and you'll get just as much 'racism'.
 
EnglishTeacher said:
It is not always the big, bad white man keeping the black man down in the mud.
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Nope, but it's a big part of the country's race dynamics and a fundamental part of the racial identity of a lot of whites -- and the country knows it perfectly well. Especially the people who get most defensive about hearing it mentioned.
 
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Work whatever angle you need to, EnglishTeacher. I don't believe anyone spends any significant time in America without knowing what the score is and I don't go in for "explaining" racism to the disigenuous.
 
CyranoJ said:
Work whatever angle you need to, EnglishTeacher. I don't believe anyone spends any significant time in America without knowing what the score is and I don't go in for "explaining" racism to the disigenuous.
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If you're going to be racist by saying American whites are default racist, which is what you are saying, you have nothing to explain to me.
 
EnglishTeacher said:
If you're going to be racist by saying American whites are default racist, which is what you are saying
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IOW you can't read.

I didn't say "American whites are default racist." I said a lot of American whites have race hate as a major part of their identity because that is obviously true, especially of the ones who are automatically defensive at the mention of racism. It's a huge tell -- right up there with "I'm not racist, but" -- because there's only one kind of person who needs to get defensive in that particular way at the mere prospect of the subject coming up. 'Course if you don't want to be seen as that sort of person you could always cut the bullshit, it's up to you; racism is choice, not biology.

Anyway, you do you. You don't have to worry about further replies from me.
 
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Dick Gregory is a USA black activist and comedian. In his 1960's routines he'd say that when he had to fill out a form asking 'color' he'd answer OFF-WHITE and let them figure how far off.

Psychotic racial paranoia is a defining feature of Amerikkka. Don't doubt it -- fix it. Right...
 
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EnglishTeacher said:
Do those studies take into account who owns the business?
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I don't think those particular studies looked into that angle of things; they concentrated on demonstrating the existence of racism in hiring and medical processes, not so much on who was responsible.

But here's one that did look into the "who" of the decision-makers, and tested with other races besides just black-and-white, in an academic context: http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~dchugh/articles/PsychSci_2012.pdf

Its always a black on white thing when it comes to race in the media and the US. Latino on black racism, black on Asian racism, Indian vs. Pakistani racism, none of those other subsects get the same play.
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Those prejudices certainly do exist. But, to state the obvious, white people are the most powerful demographic in the USA, so you'd expect white attitudes to get much more coverage.

It is not always the big, bad white man keeping the black man down in the mud. Ask the Korean shop owner having to protect his store with a shotgun to keep looters away during a riot and you'll get just as much 'racism'.
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Quite likely. But last I looked, there wasn't a major political party dominated by Korean shop owners, or a major news network dominated by Korean newscasters, and nation-wide there are far more white dudes making hiring decisions than there are Koreans.
 
EnglishTeacher said:
People get defensive about hearing about it because they are being blamed for something they never did.
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If you're a white person in the USA, odds are VERY high that you have benefited significantly from your race even without seeking out or noticing that advantage. The teacher who didn't write you off early, the cop who chose not to stop you for a minor violation, the employer who gave you the benefit of the doubt...

When that happens, we don't stop to ask "did I just get a free pass because I'm white?" and even if we did, it would be impossible to answer that question for an individual incident. I have no way of knowing whether the airport cop who agreed to mind my suitcase on September 12 2001 so I could go pee would've done the same for a black person, I don't know whether the cops who ignored my erratic driving as I got used to right-side-of-the-road would have pulled over black-me, I don't know whether folk who employed would have offered the same job to a black person with my credentials.

But when we look at the numbers (cf. the studies I linked and many others) it becomes clear that white people are getting a hell of a lot of free passes. Even if you and I aren't trying to rig the system, the system is already rigged in our favour, and we benefit from that.

Is it enough just to say "well I didn't ask for this advantage?" and passively accept its benefits?

If you get up one morning and find some black lady's purse on your doorstep, is it enough to say "well I didn't seek this out, it wasn't me that took it from her, so it's okay if I keep it"? Or is there some moral onus to try to redress that?

I know which option lets me sleep better at night.
 
Bramblethorn said:
If you're a white person in the USA, odds are VERY high that you have benefited significantly from your race even without seeking out or noticing that advantage. The teacher who didn't write you off early, the cop who chose not to stop you for a minor violation, the employer who gave you the benefit of the doubt...

When that happens, we don't stop to ask "did I just get a free pass because I'm white?" and even if we did, it would be impossible to answer that question for an individual incident. I have no way of knowing whether the airport cop who agreed to mind my suitcase on September 12 2001 so I could go pee would've done the same for a black person, I don't know whether the cops who ignored my erratic driving as I got used to right-side-of-the-road would have pulled over black-me, I don't know whether folk who employed would have offered the same job to a black person with my credentials.

But when we look at the numbers (cf. the studies I linked and many others) it becomes clear that white people are getting a hell of a lot of free passes. Even if you and I aren't trying to rig the system, the system is already rigged in our favour, and we benefit from that.

Is it enough just to say "well I didn't ask for this advantage?" and passively accept its benefits?

If you get up one morning and find some black lady's purse on your doorstep, is it enough to say "well I didn't seek this out, it wasn't me that took it from her, so it's okay if I keep it"? Or is there some moral onus to try to redress that?

I know which option lets me sleep better at night.
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I'm going to be upfront and say I didn't have the time to read links 2 and 3 yet, but I did read the first one, so if something I say gets defeated in link 2 or 3, I'm happy to admit it.

The biggest problem with all of these, like I said before, is it is white vs. black, but the US is not just white vs. black, but also Asian, Indian, Native, and so on. A lot of people who like to thump this type of research then ignore the 'racism' by and against Asians, the group who outperforms whites in earnings and college education.

At no point am I saying 'racism' does not exist. It will always exist for various reasons, but until the picture becomes more than white vs. black, there will never be progress to minimize it.
 
EnglishTeacher said:
I'm going to be upfront and say I didn't have the time to read links 2 and 3 yet, but I did read the first one, so if something I say gets defeated in link 2 or 3, I'm happy to admit it.

The biggest problem with all of these, like I said before, is it is white vs. black, but the US is not just white vs. black, but also Asian, Indian, Native, and so on.
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As I noted above, the work I cited by Milkman, Akinola and Chugh looks at more than just black/white and it examines effects from both sides (i.e. demographics of the person making the decision on whether to reply to a prospective student, as well as the apparent demographics of that student).

Specifically, it looks at a breakdown of Caucasian, African American, Hispanic, Indian, and Chinese, as well as sex.

One of the interesting findings shown there is that even professors from minority groups tend to favour Caucasian applicants over their own minority group. There's a positive interaction there (i.e. being of the same race as the professor does help your chances of getting an appointment, unless that race is Indian) but it's not enough to cancel out the general bias against non-Caucasian applicants.
 
Censorship Anyone?

We all have preferences. As long as the material is legal, then I say, more power to you. I disagree with many niches and genres within erotica and you don't see me writing a diatribe in an effort to censor the category I disagree with.

If you don't like IR, then simply don't read it. That is a very, very simple solution. You will never have to worry about it if you never click on the link to the story. I dislike the gay categories because I'm not gay, and I don't care to read from that category. I don't try and get the category removed because i don't care for it. I don't understand why you want to destroy something simply because you disagree with the style, formula, or content. You propose a form of fascist oppression. Only stories and genres that meet with your approval get posted.

I rather like the quote attributed to Voltaire:

"I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It."

This is what I'm about. If it's legal, then go for it.
 
re: Censorship Anyone?

Cockhole said:
If it's legal, then go for it.
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Censorship is irrelevant here because IR isn't on LIT's banned list. IR snuff or kid-pr0n won't pass -- take those elsewhere. IR bestiality, hmmm, that's a concept... :devil: But otherwise, go ahead. Just keep in mind ways IR can be handled.

* Is it pushing hate? How well is that received here?
* Can you exploit the stereotypes for hot sweaty fun?
* Can you twist the stereotypes for sardonic effect?
* Can you explore non-standard versions of the genre?
* Can you expand the IR with multiracial stereotypes?
* Can you mix IR in other themes: GM, Incest, BDSM? (*)

(*) I vaguely recall an old mainstream non-pr0n that hit a few taboos. Older USA Southern white aristo guy becomes infatuated with a young black man who is the aristo's son by a house servant, and the aristo goes sub to the boy's dom -- in private, of course. Not that the GM hookup and dom/sub roles were uncommon in the aristo's social class, but the incest definitely was.
 
Cockhole said:
We all have preferences. As long as the material is legal, then I say, more power to you. I disagree with many niches and genres within erotica and you don't see me writing a diatribe in an effort to censor the category I disagree with.
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criticism



is



not



censorship.
 
There is nothing in the context of this thread that has anything to do with censorship. Censorship is suppression of something done with policing authority. There are no laws against writing interracial stories or enforcing a suppression of them. That's what Bram was pointing out you. You misused the word "censor." Lit. readers can, in no way, censor interracial stories here, and if the Web site chose not to post them, which it hasn't done, that would be it's right to determine it's product, not censorship.
 
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Cockhole said:
Read previous posts.

"I wish the IR category would vanish. "

Context is everything.
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Do you really not understand the difference between "wishing IR would vanish" and "making IR vanish"? The latter is censorship; the former isn't, unless you have a wish-granting pixie on retainer.
 
Bramblethorn said:
Do you really not understand the difference between "wishing IR would vanish" and "making IR vanish"? The latter is censorship; the former isn't, unless you have a wish-granting pixie on retainer.
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Fortunately (or maybe not) IR will not vanish from LIT because Laurel doesn't object and LIT is her site. 'Twould be handy if the new upgraded LIT allowed users to not even SEE stories in categories or with tags they don't like. Switch off IR. Switch off Incest. Switch off cuckolds. Exclude those from your bubble. Alas, that won't happen. Unhappy readers must rely on the BACK key. That's so labor-intensive....
[/snark]
 
Hypoxia said:
Fortunately (or maybe not) IR will not vanish from LIT because Laurel doesn't object and LIT is her site. 'Twould be handy if the new upgraded LIT allowed users to not even SEE stories in categories or with tags they don't like. Switch off IR. Switch off Incest. Switch off cuckolds. Exclude those from your bubble. Alas, that won't happen. Unhappy readers must rely on the BACK key. That's so labor-intensive....
[/snark]
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Imagine if the site did this for people automatically. After let's say five comments about how all adulterers are scum who should [some form of violent come-uppance here], Lit automatically helps defend one's sensibilities by auto-screening LW stories.
 
I totally agree Jaiart. Literotica is a place that is good to explore things that aren't always acceptable in society, but most of the IR writing is really bad. Most, but not all of the writing about trans people like me has a similar problem with stereo types. I write my own stories to correct that, I like to write what I want to read.

I don't know your background (or anyone else please feel free to chime in), but I am working on an IR story, which is why this thread interested me. My story tries to play on the "Black Bull" stereo type and then smashing it to pieces by showing the humanity and depth of the "bull" character.

In all honesty I don't want to be that typical white girl that says "but I have black friends." I do have two African American, one male and one female, friends that I socialize with regularly. Our social circle is pretty lefty liberal and we spend a lot of time discussing social issues of the day, so I think I have an OK handle on some of the fraught dynamics of a story like this. Unfortunately they are not the kind of friends that would be comfortable reading my erotica, so I can't really have them review it.

I also know that some people are not comfortable reading bisexual male material. Anyway, I guess what I am saying is that if if anyone, particularly someone with the background to help me avoid landmines while messing with the stereotype wants to help me or review my story I would love to hear from you.

Tammy
 
ShyTammy said:
I totally agree Jaiart. Literotica is a place that is good to explore things that aren't always acceptable in society, but most of the IR writing is really bad. Most, but not all of the writing about trans people like me has a similar problem with stereo types. I write my own stories to correct that, I like to write what I want to read.
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^^^^^ This.

What makes LIT great is acceptance of us telling our stories as we see fit. We may aspire to grab eyeballs and votes by sticking to formulae, or we may write EXACTLY what we want and ignore the dingbats and death threats. Some of my fave stories are my lowest-rated. I wanted to achieve certain effects and I apparently affected people. That makes me happy.

...if if anyone, particularly someone with the background to help me avoid landmines while messing with the stereotype wants to help me or review my story I would love to hear from you.
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Don't know if I have a helpful background (I'm an old ex-tech writer and generally vanilla person) (except for my MMF and FFM relationships) but shoot me the story in PM and I'll take a look.
 
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