OOC for THE AFFAIRS OF KAITAIN: A Role-Play of Dune

Just waiting for an opportunity to step in on the story, but right now it just sounds like a hiring process. One I need to be involved in, but on my own terms. After all Joab is a warrior without a house. I do want to have a scene of him training though. I figure shield training would work best? Blade and personnel force field or has that not been developed at this time? Been going over the first book again slowly. Work has been taking a lot out of me lately.

First thing Pathir is going to do is ensure she has a swordsman with her at all times, if possible. She needs personal guards. At the moment or soon, one of us should be at her side at all times. NPCs eventually maybe.

No shields in capital city. Interaction with lasgun sub-atomic explosion. Too dangerous near Emperor and palace. Knives, swords, slip-tips, bodkins, slow pellet stunners, maula pistols and needle guns. Only Sardaukar have lasguns. Capital offence to have lasgun or shield. End up in the Imperial Prison.(see link of places to visit while on Kaitain)

If the sister was involved can any retainer be trusted completely? Did sister have her own family cabal? Does the Countess need to bring in outside 'trustworthy' retainers?

Her new Mentat's first thing is hire a merc.

Put yourself in the bar where Pathir places cheops. That may be fastest way to meet. Maybe the Countess can go underground for a few days or weeks while a Bill of Particulars is presented?

Like I said first thing is quickly hire a sword.

Joab is more then just your average sell sword...

I don't expect a noble of a House Major would have just any sell sword. Especially when on a potential hostile planet with only a couple of retainers. Pathir could take just any sell sword! Pathir not the best pilot either if it comes to that. Knowledge on repair of planetary defence systems is outside his universe.

Mentat human computer who knows poisons. Thufir and Piter did not swing swords. Poisons and slip-tip kind of guys.

Your merc skills are what you say.

What role do you want? How do you see yourself employed by the Countess? Your character!

With all due respect, Hard_Rom, I think you made a math error in your last post that Pathir would not make.

Pathir originally requested "two decigrams" of spice as part of his salary.

"Two decigrams" = 0.2 grams.

Josephine counter-offered with "65 milligrams" of spice.

"65 milligrams" = 0.065 grams.

Pathir replied with "one centigram" of spice.

"One centigram" = 0.01 grams.

0.01 grams < 0.065 grams.

As posted, Pathir cheated himself out of at least 0.055 grams.

I'm either missing something, or you made a mathematical error in your posting.

Pathir would not have made that mistake. So I ignored it in my post.

If I'm right that this was a math error on your part, then I suggest you change your last post from saying "one centigram" to "eight centigrams."

If I missed something, please explain and I'll change my last post accordingly.

I was going for one deci but I'll give you the 8 centi for spotting the error, LOL. Late nights and no sapho juice. Business and haggling not Pathir's thing. WIll stick to poisoning folk and stabbing them in dark allies.

A man's got to know his limitations. I'll have to bring that in as Mentat Handbook axiom.

Character Biography






The courtiers on Kaitain consider Scheherazade too pretty to ignore, too smart to disregard,
too undisciplined for the Bene Gesserit, and too curious for her own good.

Concubines and Bastards

Very feudal system. An illegitimate daughter by a concubine probably would be a Lady not a Princess and have her mother's name not Corrino. Imperial family at times very relaxed in choosing heirs but unless in line to inherit probably no Corrino name. The daughter of a royal concubine comes out off probably a high ranking Sardaukar Over-Bashar's family. Their daughters usually became royal concubines. The Emperor's power base IS the Sardaukar.

The one named bastard son of Elrood was executed by Shaddam. Daughters of the Emperor by concubines would expect to me political tools and/or gifts. Just like in our medieval days. Although a spirited and somewhat rebellious grand-daughter of a Sardaukar Over-Bashar would have inheritted some of the genes that allowed her grandfather to survive on Salusus Secondus, the Emperor's prison planet, and achieve his high rank. SS is where all Sardaukar come from. It is what makes them such great fighters.

Tyros Reffa

Tyros Reffa was the bastard son of Padishah Emperor Elrood Corrino IX and Lady Shando Vernius. He was also the demi-brother to Padishah Emperor Shaddam Corrino IV. Reffa' was entrusted to House Tagliari and Docent Glax Othn.

A bright man, he knew of his royal heritage but had no aspirations to ascend the Golden Lion Throne. When Shaddam IV discovered his existence, he ordered that Zanovar - a fief of House Tagliari where Tyros was living - be destroyed under the pretense of his Great Spice War. However, when the Sardaukar fleet arrived and blackened the planet, he was away on Artisia

From DE on concubines

The Imperial power was further diluted by making the Emperor responsible for his actions to the Imperial Family, which itself was
controlled and balanced by the Imperial Household (the immediate relatives of the reigning Emperor), the Imperial Cousines (offshoots of the Imperial
Household, distaff members of the Family, and collateral houses), and the Sardaukar Over-Bashars (whose daughters became royal concubines).

The Corrino Emperors, high-ranking officers in the Imperial Sardaukar, and the heads of most of the Great Houses... the rule than the exception for these men to maintain a wife and one or more concubines — the Royal Harem being the most obvious example.

Okay so she is a member of court, but what is her standing. I understand why not a princess of course unless someone gifted her mother a minor title and lands.

The Lady Scheherazade de'Cortez would be exactly what she said, a daughter of Elrood IX by a royal concubine. That's all the standing she would need. Ladies-in-waiting to legitimate royal daughters have to come from somewhere. Royals always seem to find a place at court for pretty illegitimate daughters. Concubinage is legal, so while not in place to inherit she does have some "rank". More so than low-borns. Not as high as the Countess. Higher than your guy with his minor noble illegitimate birth. Probably has an allowance that would make yours and my character sick, or not.

Illegitimacy kind of puts you outside the usual hierarchy unless a favourite royal bastard. Bastard sons eliminated to remove threat and daughters married off to cement political or business dealings.

If her grandfather is a Sardaukar Over-Bashar she gets a lot of rank from that. Or at least courtiers might fear her grandfather.

Except for maybe the technicality of the title, the rest is all hers including her standing. A somewhat rebellious illegitimate daughter could be an Emperor's favourite or not depending on his mood and how she wants it to go down.

I thought these two clips really showed some good costumes, settings and character types.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqX3VXOaiIU

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdx9xd_frank-herbert-s-dune-princess-irula_shortfilms

Very good mini-series.

Hard_Rom said:

The Lady Scheherazade de'Cortez would be exactly what she said, a daughter of Elrood IX by a royal concubine. That's all the standing she would need. Ladies-in-waiting to legitimate royal daughters have to come from somewhere. Royals always seem to find a place at court for pretty illegitimate daughters. Concubinage is legal, so while not in place to inherit she does have some "rank". More so than low-borns. Not as high as the Countess. Higher than your guy with his minor noble illegitimate birth. Probably has an allowance that would make yours and my character sick, or not.

Illegitimacy kind of puts you outside the usual hierarchy unless a favourite royal bastard. Bastard sons eliminated to remove threat and daughters married off to cement political or business dealings.

If her grandfather is a Sardaukar Over-Bashar she gets a lot of rank from that. Or at least courtiers might fear her grandfather.

Except for maybe the technicality of the title, the rest is all hers including her standing. A somewhat rebellious illegitimate daughter could be an Emperor's favourite or not depending on his mood and how she wants it to go down.

Click to expand...

I gave a lot of thought into whether I could call Scheherazade "princess." As you see, I decided I could.

"Princess" often denotes a woman's place in a royal family, even if she has no real place in the ruling hierarchy or even succession.

What really convinced me, though, is Paul Atreides. His mother was a concubine, yet he seems to have been heir apparent (not just heir presumptive) to Duke Leto. If the son of a concubine can have such status in both the hierarchy and succession of a noble house, it seems to me that any daughter of a emperor, even if by a concubine, can be styled a "princess," even if it is just a title with no indication of any power or inheritance rights.

Besides, it just makes the story more interesting to have a "princess" involved.

So, is it okay is Scheherazade stays a "princess"?

I'm good with it. The term princess was not even used in England until the 18th century. Queen Elizabeth I and her sister Mary, daughters of Henry VIII were styled Lady not Princess.

No actual canon stuff says no, beyond feudal type system. If you have your heart set on Princess I'm good with it.

Lady Jessica was always just Lady Jessica until her son became Emperor and made her a Duchess in her own right. Whether Paul was named heir was entirely up to his father. A legal marriage could have had legal precedent when supplying an heir. Concubinage is a legal arrangement and such things would be set in the contract.

But this is royal household. So they can style themselves what ever they want.

Female contraception was readily practiced. There could have been many "princesses" or few. Only one bastard "prince" noted. But BG trained concubines had ability to choose sex of child.

Your call on that I think. How many princesses beyond legal daughters of Elrood there were.

Your sisters: (the legitimate heir types)(spice gives very long life, health and beauty to ultra rich such as royals and immediate supporters)
Wensicia (who should not be confused with Elrood's granddaughter), Crystane, Tara and Edwina (b. 10,070). Edwina would later marry Count Ilban Richese in 10,090, and eventually became the great-grandmother of Paul Atreides.

Your father:
Elrood Corrino IX (9,999-10,156 A.G.) was the 80th Emperor of the known universe, son of Fondil III "The Hunter" and father to Shaddam IV. Elrood was the penultimate emperor in the Corrino Dynasty and ascended to the throne at the age of 19. During his reign of 138 years, Elrood married into many royal houses of the Imperium, among them House Mutelli, House Hagal and House Ecaz.

According to the back matter of Dune: House Atreides, Elrood married Barbara Mutelli in 10,019 A.G.; they had a daughter called Wensicia (who should not be confused with Elrood's granddaughter), and a son called Elliott. Elrood murdered one-year-old Elliott himself, after which "Barbara went insane; Elrood kept her, though, and impregnated her repeatedly ... the fertilized embryos were placed in storage for later dynastic emergencies." Barbara died in 10,026, and Elrood's subsequent marriage to Yvette Hagal in 10,036 produced three daughters: Crystane, Tara and Edwina (b. 10,070). Edwina would later marry Count Ilban Richese in 10,090, and eventually became the great-grandmother of Paul Atreides.

Yvette died in 10,075 A.G., and Elrood next married Alexandra Ecaz in 10,079. She gave birth to the Crown Prince Fafnir, but later disappeared in 10,098. Elrood's "impulsive marriage" to Habla of Hassika V in 10,100 was childless for 19 years. Using one of the frozen embryos from his first wife, Barbara Mutelli, Elrood made it possible for Habla to produce a son — Shaddam. Shaddam himself never knew that his genetic mother was Barbara.

Elrood's eldest son and heir Fafnir was murdered by Count Hasimir Fenring in 10,138 A.G. at the urging of Shaddam, who himself desired to inherit the throne. According to Shaddam, Elrood suspected Fenring's role in Fafnir's death (and later discovered Shaddam's complicity), but accepted it as part of Imperial politics. Though they never confessed, in Dune: House Corrino, Shaddam recalled that Elrood had "cackled knowingly: and said:

It shows initiative that you are able to make difficult decisions. But do not be so eager to take the responsibility of an Emperor. I still have many years left in my reign, and you must observe my example. Watch, and learn.
In Dune: House Atreides, Shaddam remembered how Elrood had been amused when he learned that Shaddam "had been slipping contraceptives into the food of his own mother, Habla, so she couldn't conceive another son and rival to him." Elrood, however, had also fathered an illegitimate son named Tyros Reffa with his concubine Shando Balut, the future wife of Earl Dominic Vernius of Ix.

Elrood was Padishah Emperor at the time of the first Prelude to Dune novel, Dune: House Atreides. In his later years, Elrood gave the siridar-governorship of Arrakis to House Harkonnen. He also created the title "Imperial Planetologist of Arrakis", and appointed Pardot Kynes to find out exactly how the spice melange was created. Elrood became a despotic and dictatorial ruler who in 10,154 A.G. authorized the Tleilaxu takeover of planet Ix and established the Project Amal program to create synthetic melange, intending to remove the Empire's dependency on Arrakis and control the spice himself. His long rule ended in 10,156 when he was assassinated, poisoned by slow acting chaumurky administered to him by Count Fenring (again doing the bidding of Elrood's son Shaddam).

Whose turn up to bat next?

I was thinking that now would be a good idea for the slipping of that note into the chamber. I don't know wether I should just post as the slave coming to serve the refreshments or if Josephine wants to post one more time to actually summon them officially.

For me it's about a chance to offer my services....This a lot like Dune. A lot of maneuvering then over to some other characters...a lot of internal thought.

Joab makes his appearance.
Three of us go visit the Princess Scheherazade? All characters in!
Then rendezvous?

Sounds like it could work....

The Imperial Court

The Imperium:
Legally, the emperor was recognized by the Treaty of Corrin as superior to "any and all" of the states of the Landsraad. This legal recognition of the emperor's power was later to provide the foundation for the emperor's claim to make law himself, to serve as a judge, and to grant power to the nobles of the Great Houses.

The Great Houses were permitted to keep their own troops, sufficient for control of their territories and defense against their neighbors. This accomplished two ends. In the first place, it removed from the imperial House the burden of garrisoning every part of the empire. More mail that, though, it recognized the nature of the Great Houses to expand at one another's expense and saw to it that they retained the means to do so.

The earliest administrative division of the empire was the province, the Imperial equivalent of a district within the system of the Landsraad: a province would include two or more solar systems. Each province was assessed an annual tribute. Collection was in the local currencies of each world, and that tribute was assessed by the House Corrino on the basis of records of the provincial income submitted by the Great Houses of the province. These reports were checked against those produced by Imperial financial agents known as "correctores," several of whom were stationed in each province. These functionaries not only checked the records of the Great Houses, they also supplemented their information with reports furnished by private agents — financial spies. These agents ultimately would be organized into the Imperial Fiscal Intelligence, the infamous IFI.

While the reform and evolution of the Imperial administration did disengage the emperor from the direct government of the planets, some control of local government was exercised by House Corrino. The most important means of this lay in the emperor's control over any change of government, a power founded in the Treaty of Corrin. That agreement had recognized the supremacy of the emperor over any and all of the various governments of the inhabited worlds. This statement was promptly — and permanently — interpreted by the Imperial house as meaning that all power was held as a grant from the emperor. While these grants were to Houses, the emperor reserved the right to approve choices of heirs. The hereditary rights of the Great Houses, then, were not unrestricted.

Though the emperor would normally approve the choice of heir by a Great House, as long as local law had been obeyed, he was not bound to do so. Houses which he felt might be contemplating actions of which he might disapprove were often reminded of his veto. By natural extension of this power, the emperor also had the right to approve or disapprove any change of power over any planet, whether occasioned by heredity, war or other cause. In each of these cases, the change of fief-holder was supervised by an official called a "Judge of the Change." These officials were appointed by the Landsraad High Council and the emperor jointly and answered to both of these institutions once the change was completed. One should not be misled by the participation of the High Council in this matter, however. The Great Houses were naturally concerned in these instances that the forms be obeyed and wished to keep an eye on all changes of fief in order that they might be aware of any significant shifts of power.

But the legal power here was the emperor's, for it was he who granted fiefs and legally bestowed nobility. In addition, various feudal "aids and incidents" had gotten attached to the system over the years and were regarded as inviolable through long custom. These included "relief," basically an inheritance tax payable upon the death of a vassal and the assumption of a fief by that vassal's legal heir; the "incident" of marriage, to be paid by an heiress for the right to choose her own husband (in practice merely a wedding tax, but taken very seriously by the Imperium, as evidenced in the legal precedent of Lady Angelica Hagal vs. the Imperium [Landsraad Archives 9183], when the High Council of the Landsraad ruled that "marriage among the members of Houses Major cannot be construed otherwise than as a political and economic merger, and as such is under the direct jurisdiction of our Sublime Padishah Emperor himself")

Such authority and wealth also gave rise to an Imperial Court (and bureaucracy) that grew every year in splendor and in solaris spent. The Imperial Palace on Kaitain housed not only the emperor and his immediate relatives of House Corrino, their servants, bodyguards, and slaves, but also the emperor's slave-harem with its adjacent nursery for the offspring of the stave-concubines, and, on a higher level, quarters for the generallyignored-but-tolerated string of aristocratic visitors with suits, petitions, diplomatic errands, and the like. Lesser beggars waited out of doors.

All, however, craved permission to enter the Imperial selamlik, to pass beyond the plasteel and marble doors, under the sculptured arches with the Imperial legend, "Law is the ultimate science," past the captive banners of defeated Great Houses, to stand within ten feet of the Golden Lion Throne, in the presence, finally, of Power itself. The great audience hall would be crowded with Imperial bodyguards, courtiers, noukkers, pages, slaves, hangers-on, bat still with only a fraction of those who clamored to get in; the audiences would seem endless, but would accommodate only a few petitioners out of the many who waited. The emperor, dressed in a gray Sardaukar uniform with only the Imperial crest on the helm to indicate his position — to indicate, if such a blatant reminder were necessary, exactly where the Imperial power lay — would listen as each petitioner stated his name and case in almost identical words, the formulae having been established through ancient usage: "I, a Duke of a Great House, an Imperial kinsman, give my word of bond under the Convention..."

With few exceptions, members of the Imperial family did not attend the myriad social functions which gave the Court its reputation for glittering splendor. Nor is it true (with the possible exception of the Court of Chalic I, 8216-8225) that behind-thescenes life on Kaitain consisted of perpetual orgies, feasts, and drinking bouts. The private diaries and journals of the Royal Household, still undergoing translation, indicate that Imperial duties, not privilege, held sway on Kaitain. The Imperial power was further diluted by making the Emperor responsible for his actions to the Imperial Family, which itself was controlled and balanced by the Imperial Household (the immediate relatives of the reigning Emperor), the Imperial Cousines (offshoots of the Imperial Household, distaff members of the Family, and collateral houses), and the Sardaukar Over-Bashars (whose daughters became royal concubines).

On the Imperial planet Kaitain, immense buildings kissed the sky. Magnificent sculptures and opulent tiered fountains lined the crystal-paved boulevards like a dream. A person could stare for hours ... Kaitain was exquisitely planned and produced, with tree-lined boulevards, splendid architecture, well-watered gardens, flower barricades . . . and so much more ... Official Imperial reports claimed it was always warm, the climate forever temperate. Storms were unknown. No clouds marred the skies ... when the ornate Guild escort craft descended, [Kynes] had noted the flotilla of weather satellites, climate-bending technology that — through brute force — kept Kaitain a peaceful and serene place.

The towering government buildings of Corrinth ... rose around Abulurd Harkonnen like a drug-induced fantasy. In his wildest dreams he had never visualized so many soaring edifices, jeweled inlays, and polished slabs of precious stone ... Colorful chime kites were tethered to the tall buildings, writhing on breezes in the perpetually blue skies. Prismatic ribbons drifted across the sky and shed rainbows on the flagstones below. Kaitain was obviously more concerned with form than substance.

The Hassik III Center of Performing Arts is described as a "column-studded edifice ... a cavernous building designed with acoustic enhancements and prismatic windows." The novel notes its "Veined-marble arches with flanking fire-fountains ... [which] spewed feathery arcs of perfumed oils; blue flames consumed much of the fuel before the droplets fell into the lozenge-shaped reflecting pools."

The Imperial Palace of Kaitain is the home of the Padishah Emperor and the center of the Imperial government. It is the literal and figurative location of the Golden Lion Throne, which is both a term for the Corrino Imperium and a physical object.[3] The Palace also functions as the Emperor's personal spacecraft.

First described in 1965's Dune, the massive Imperial throne is "carved from a single piece of Hagal quartz — blue-green translucency shot through with streaks of yellow fire."

The lavish meeting place of the Landsraad, the council of noble Houses, is described in Dune: House Atreides:
...the massive Landsraad Hall of Oratory stood high and imposing, the tallest peak in a mountain range of legislative edifices and government offices surrounding an ellipsoidal commons. The Hall had been erected by contributions from all the Houses, each noble family trying to outdo the others in grandeur. Representatives from CHOAM had helped to procure resources from across the Imperium, and only by special order of a former Emperor — Hassik Corrino III — had the exorbitant Landsraad construction plans been curtailed, so as not to overshadow the Imperial Palace itself.

So while Josephine has to go before the High Council and the Emperor with this 'Judge of Change', it really does not matter what he says as the final say really comes down to the Emperor. If he decides there has been too much strife within house Marius he could rule to appoint someone else to lead the planet, thus ruining all Josephine's plans.

So I am guessing it is a matter of how much influence this Judge has on the actual decision making. Some might have the Emperors ear, while others are just jumped up figureheads and mouthpieces. This would be why everyone is in such a rush to know who is being appointed so they know who to start bribing, or getting on the good side of.

Have I read the situation right? I don't want to be the one to pick the actual judge, and I will need help on the background on the one picked (House alliances and such so I know where bribes should go and who to make friends with) but just wanted to make sure that is the situation.

The forms must be observed...

It is conceivable to have a family stripped of their House and another put in place to rule their planets. Or the Emperor may just take it for himself and add it to Imperial assets.

When the Atreides took over Arrakis, Liet-Kynes was ordered by the Emperor to ignore all but the worst of crimes committed by the Harkonnens. Normally the change in fief should be smooth and flawless. The Harkonnens deliberately sabotaged spice mining operations and equipment.

A Judge of Change could be honest and forthright, the Emperor's man regardless or for sale to highest bidder. Ultimately they are Imperial servants and treated respectably by all. The Harkonnens killing Liet-Kynes was not normal.

House Marius has been attacked in an undeclared WOA. This puts her enemies on very shaky ethical ground. The GC has been circumvented and the observed forms have been ignored. The younger sister's confession proves that. Although it would have been better to keep her alive and present her before the Landsraad High Council to be interrogated by the Emperor's Truthsayer.

I imagine it would be much more difficult/expensive for Josephine's enemies to convince a judge to toss the confession and/or rule House Marius is incompetent to rule. We are talking the destruction of a Great House. Josephine only need ensure a fairly straight forward change of fief due to inheritance. Even if the sister acted alone or with others, the forms say that Josephine should step in easily.

The decline of House Marius under her brother and loss of a Directorship is a stroke against her. Her brother being incompetent and the sister murderous are not good examples of family diligence. But if Josephine acts swiftly and devicefully to restore confidence in House Marius she should be okay.

The Emperor could order an arranged marriage. Josephine could be compelled to marry who the Emperor thought best to rule House Marius. Husband could take Marius name or change it. Not sure if he would live through his wedding night though.

Hard_Rom said:

Joab makes his appearance.
Three of us go visit the Princess Scheherazade? All characters in!
Then rendezvous?

Click to expand...

Hard_Rom said:

* * *

"If you have friends at court now would be the time to call on them."

Click to expand...

I wasn't thinking that Scheherazade already knew Josephine.

My plan was that she would overhear something at court that would make her seek Josephine out....

KaseE said:

I wasn't thinking that Scheherazade already knew Josephine.

My plan was that she would overhear something at court that would make her seek Josephine out....

Click to expand...

Then I guess the Countess does NOT have particular friends at court, yet.

She will still have to appear at court and present herself before the Emperor eventually. Etiquette says she must appear sooner rather than later.

She will need a name to attach to a Bills of Particular or start a process verbal. So that is in the future. Identifying who her enemy is the hard part.

Might try to rig a process verbal. You do that by anonymously accusing yourself of a crime. This compels your enemy to appear as a witness, unable to hide from self-incrimination.

As House Ordos does not want Josephine to loose her Planet, Harmon could offer to step in and help her out with getting her that CHOAM seat back as well as providing details on some of the conspirators. Of course these will be drip fed to her or it will look suspicious and the offer of the CHOAM seat will come at a steep price. Maybe said wedding or at least an open alliance.