Lowering the bar to meet the expectations of an immoral society...
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Cap’n AMatrixca
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CrackerjackHrt said:
In stategy, it is imprtant to take a distanced view of near things and a near view of distanced things. Musashi
Between Washington's heavy stick and the pressure of elite academic consensus, it is easy for a local body to adopt a national attitude in order to appear enlightened. Nobody wants to be perceived as some "ignorant, rural, racist, redneck..."
cjh
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Cap’n AMatrixca said:
that may be true. and if it's true there, it's true with state legislators. (when i think of most of my state legislators, i know it's true.)
regardless -- you're suggesting that the conclusions and decisions of local elected officials should be overridden some how. that strikes to the core of elected representation.
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Cap’n AMatrixca
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jhuson said:
I think it's a triumvirate: misguided moral code, parent, educator.
What's rhetorical, a long-winded congressperson full of conceit?
Plasmaball
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vetteman said:
i agree totally, but what do you do when the parent won't do it. Or says a broken promise to your face?
Who should step in then?
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vetteman said:
again.....You have a lazy parent, And a school board who feels that if said kid has a lazy parent. At least the school board thinks that giving these "kids" pills is better than nothing.
Cap’n AMatrixca
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CrackerjackHrt said:
I am NOT suggesting they be over-ridden. (That is pure ascription!) I am suggesting we take a new look at our moral values and standards and reject the philosophy that came out of Southern California and look more to flyover country before we lose the nation completely.
I do know that that is a community I would not choose to live in.
Perverts target places of low standard!
And that what we're teaching our children, low standards.
Easy marks for victimization...
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sophieloves
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Cap’n AMatrixca said:
that's worthy
and i think it's might be more prevalent than you'd imagine. not ALL kids are out there running around with no parental guidance. the schools make a big thing round where i used to live and here, i've been told, of trying to boost a child's self-esteem through encouragin them to set goals for themselves and to plan steps of action by which they might achieve this.
i would imagine the 'services' being set up are a last resort... things have to change from the grass roots up - till then, it's better (imo) to offer them protection than to have to see them get pregnant with unwanted children.
cjh
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Cap’n AMatrixca said:
* nods
i think any community where a school board feels compelled to adopt a pretty radical policy has serious problems. i doubt--don't know but doubt--that it was easily adopted. and my guess is that community has problems greater than adolescent pregnancy.
my guess is school boards in many maine communities feel no need to kowtow to national trends; most of the ones here certainly don't; they're comprised of people like you--people who care about their community.
as far as the larger debate is concerned, i think the question is a maddening one. i know, though, that in my part of the world there's a vicious cycle of teen pregnancy, fatherless children, and no hope or expectations.
sophieloves
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vetteman said:
they were removed because of the social stigma that would attach itself to her family and friends - i don't believe it has anything to do with " so that her fucked up morality didn't influence the rest of the student body"! and what about the girls who didn't have 'fucked up morality'? the ones raped by family members or boyfriends... used children who fell pregnant. sweeping the problem under the carpet meant that it could be ignored way too long!
sophieloves
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should-be's are all very well.. but it's the reality of the now that has to be dealt with. showing kids how to have self-respect is the most vital thing of all, i'm thinking. show the child their value as a person, and they will carry that forward with them.
busybody..
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Its CLITMANS fault 
When you have someone who is alleged to be the President
Look you in the EYES and LIE
Who FUCKS whomever he pleases and flaunts it
Who cant define the WORD
IS
Without wiggle waggle room
you define decency down to levels that just a few decades ago was considered
DEVIANT!
I BLAME CLITMAN!
When you have someone who is alleged to be the President
Look you in the EYES and LIE
Who FUCKS whomever he pleases and flaunts it
Who cant define the WORD
IS
Without wiggle waggle room
you define decency down to levels that just a few decades ago was considered
DEVIANT!
I BLAME CLITMAN!
RJMasters
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Plasmaball said:
Why stop at providing birth control? Let's setup a bar and serve em alcohol too because kids are going to drink to even though they shouldn't. Using the same logic, this should work out nicely with the designated bus drivers.
After thirty + years of our culture doing everything in its power to undermine parental authority, eradicate principles of right and wrong, and support every cause except those that support traditional family values, we arrive at a point where the consequences are now being reaped....and the best come back you can come up with is....we can't stop them from doing it so we might as well make birth control measures available...
To add insult to injury, its illegal for a nurse to give a kid an asprin for a headache, but it ok to give them a birht control pill or devices that allows them to have safe sex.
Want to know what I would do? I would make a real "reality" tv show and show how fucked up the lives of these kids become from engaging in this type behavior. show pics of the little girls and boys who have runninng sores from their mouth from transmitted deases, and pics of these young girls being pregnant. Show how their futures are now fucked up because of engaging in behavior which is unsafe and has life-altering consequences.
How about making the punishment for engaging in that kind of activity so harsh that it would even get through the thick skulls of a teenager, like if caught engaging in sexual activity on school ground you get expelled for a whole year. Send a message that we will not tolerate this kind of behavior at school.
How about instead of encouraging an activity which we all know will have devestating consequences on these kids, we push personal accountability by enforcing more severe penalties. And I don't want to hear how bad it would be to expel a child out of school for a year....too fucking bad, that is part of the consequences for doing this.
Perhaps we can really save some kids and their future by acting in a more responsible manner and enforcing some discipline.
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busybody..
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RJMasters said:Why stop at providing birth control? Let's setup a bar and serve em alcohol too because kids are going to drink to even though they shouldn't. Using the same logic, this should work out nicely with the designated bus drivers.
After thirty + years of our culture doing everything in its power to undermine parental authority, eradicate principles of right and wrong, and support every cause except those that support traditional family values, we arrive at a point where the consequences are now being reaped....and the best come back you can come up with is....we can't stop them from doing it so we might as well make birth control measures available...
To add insult to injury, its illegal for a nurse to give a kid an asprin for a headache, but it ok to give them a birht control pill or devices that allows them to have safe sex.
Want to know what I would do? I would make a real "reality" tv show and show how fucked up the lives of these kids become from engaging in this type behavior. show pics of the little girls and boys who have runninng sores from their mouth from transmitted deases, and pics of these young girls being pregnant. Show how their futures are now fucked up because of engaging in behavior which is unsafe and has life-altering consequences.
How about making the punishment for engaging in that kind of activity so harsh that it would even get through the thick skulls of a teenager, like if caught engaging in sexual activity on school ground you get expelled for a whole year. Send a message that we will not tolerate this kind of behavior at school.To "them" it would be COOL to be outa school for a year, you stuck it to the man!. How about, in addition to out of school, the gov takes away ALL BENEFITS, welfare, housing etc to the PARENTS!
How about instead of encouraging an activity which we all know will have devestating consequences on these kids, we push personal accountability by enforcing more severe penalties. And I don't want to hear how bad it would be to expel a child out of school for a year....too fucking bad, that is part of the consequences for doing this.
Perhaps we can really save some kids and their future by acting in a more responsible manner and enforcing some discipline.
Why stop here?
Why not provide these "kids" with animals to torture and people to practicce their mugging skills on and women to rape?
Instead of rewarding CRIMINAL DEVIANT BEHAVIOR
PUNISH IT!
HARSHLY!
sophieloves
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vetteman said:
look, sigh, i am young, admittedly. but i didn't pop out of thin air. i had parents and aunts and uncles, grandparents, great aunts and uncles, family friends, teachers, priests, nuns.. many many adults in my life. some far more responsible than others. what i speak of is an assimilation of my own albeit limited experiences and a vast input from other people far older and wiser than myself. there has always been teen pregnancies - they were just covered up. i'm sure there are more today, but the old ways sucked too a lot of the time. NOT all the time. when i use public transport, i automatically WITHOUT a second thought give up my seat if someone boards who needs it more than i. i have manners. i hold doors open for anyone following me, i was brought up with it instilled in me. i won't stand back if i see kids picking on another in the streets, and will automatically stand up and speak out against what i think wrong in my environment. i also tend to defend the underdog to an extent - i don't like packmentality. BUT i am not alone. most my friends, not all but most, are this way too. that cannot be some accident, can it?
when a society is so 'moral' on its surface, you can betcha bottom dollar there's a cesspit of filth running under its feet. Victorian england is a prime example. i applaud your good parenting skills - and i am sure you're not alone in possessing them.
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cjh
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vetteman said:
i'm way past my 30s.
i share sophie's perspective. not yours.
you were very patronizing--polite but patronizing--in your post.
i think the post where you admitted you think we should pretend problems don't exist--ship the "bad" girls away, is telling. why didn't we ship the fathers away, too?
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sophieloves
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vetteman said:
as i pointed out, my views are based only partly on my own, limited, life-experiences and mainly on the array of information i have gleaned from those adults in my life way older than i am. and while a parent may be right about many things, it doesn't automatically make them infallible; if it did, and they all lived such exemplary lives, a lot of the problems you point out wouldn't exist.
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