What does gender mean to you?

[Bigboobbabe]

Except that your shorthand AFAB is assigned female at birth - it doesn't always follow that the person doing the assigning got it right. Genetic testing at birth isn't a regular practise. Sorry - I know that's maybe nit-picking but plenty of intersex folks would take issue.

In most other respects, I agree with what you've said.

You are 100% correct.
My grad school studies were genetics and embryology.
I worked in the laboratory for OBGYN and fertility centers.

I am aware of one case, in 35 years of my career where the infant's visible genitals were so ambiguous, our physician was reluctant to assign any gender without genetic testing.

I know there are many more cases like this, but I was playing the odds.

Looking back, over a 35 yr career in laboratory science with education, I foresee routine genetic testing during every pregnancy.
It will not be isolated to embryo testing before implanting nor will it remain routine only for certain cultural groups where deadly genetic diseases are passed along due to isolated mating , i.e. Ashkenazi Jewish population.

My spouse is AFAB, 35 years they enjoyed women's clothing now and then. They are currently entering 3rd year of hormonal gender affirmation. Surgery is a possibility.
This topic hits a lot of bullet points for me.
And I have only begun to learn. I am grateful I have work experience and education to assist with understanding.

 

[stickygirl]

You are 100% correct.
My grad school studies were genetics and embryology.
I worked in the laboratory for OBGYN and fertility centers.

I am aware of one case, in 35 years of my career where the infant's visible genitals were so ambiguous, our physician was reluctant to assign any gender without genetic testing.

I know there are many more cases like this, but I was playing the odds.

Looking back, over a 35 yr career in laboratory science with education, I foresee routine genetic testing during every pregnancy.
It will not be isolated to embryo testing before implanting nor will it remain routine only for certain cultural groups where deadly genetic diseases are passed along due to isolated mating , i.e. Ashkenazi Jewish population.

My spouse is AFAB, 35 years they enjoyed women's clothing now and then. They are currently entering 3rd year of hormonal gender affirmation. Surgery is a possibility.
This topic hits a lot of bullet points for me.
And I have only begun to learn. I am grateful I have work experience and education to assist with understanding.

When one considers that there are as many redheads ( in caucasian populations ) as intersex (1.5%) then the comparisons become meaningful: we all know someone that is redhead so it follows we also know intersex people.

I live in a city with several large teaching hospitals and because it draws in specialist cases it gets a 'false' percentage of pediatric cases, intersex included. I once shared a house with medical students and I also have a friend who is Klinefelter, so I'm kinda sensitive to their plight if only with second-hand, layperson knowledge.

Routine genetic screening comes with baggage of course: parental proof etc.

'Expression' is a good description because it embraces the ambiguity of how the the brain is influenced, but not controlled by, our DNA. Medical science is still grappling with innumerate variance of gender as much as it is with other mental predispositions, such as asd or adhd.

 

[AlexBailey]

No, and you are being ridiculous. It is 100% obvious to any person, male, female, or otherwise that I am a man. Because that is obvious there is no need to say anything about my genitals. I am not a woman portraying myself as a man, I am not a man portraying myself as a woman.

And the problem you and others are having here is you only see it through your perspective. That everyone will be okay with it if you already have an emotional connection. Myself, I would want to know before the relationship got to deep so I could make up my mind based on the truth, not a deception. I know you won't like that concept and that's fine. I'm not at all saying that there would never be a circumstance where I wouldn't continue the relationship if everything else was good. But deception is never good for any relationship.

On top of which let's say you are dating someone, and they have no idea you are a transgender, and weeks into the relationship you tell them. How can you possibly gauge their reaction? It could be anything from acceptance to a violence against you. It seems awfully risky and dangerous, especially if sexual play had already occurred, such as you giving them head. Violence would absolutely not be my reaction, but I could see where it might be for others.

I’m not being ridiculous, I’m sharing my own experiences and pointing out how people hold different values and making “rules” about what, when, and how someone discloses their “truth” is not something that can be uniformly handled.

Your responses seem to be drawing firm lines, but where exactly are those lines, and how can someone know whether they have crossed them or not unless they just assume that their “truth” may be offensive to you? At what point are you in so “deep” that you need to know? Before they accept a drink you have pro-offered?

Is it a transgender persons responsibility to tell someone their history as soon as someone starts seeming interested? That’s the impression I get from your posts.

 

[BrendaBear]

It a transgender persons responsibility to tell someone their history as soon as someone starts seeming interested? That’s the impression I get from your posts.

I kind of think he is just looking to hate on whoever or maybe stir up stuff,

 

[AlexBailey]

I kind of think he is just looking to hate on whoever or maybe stir up stuff,

I don’t get the impression he’s a hater, more just that he hasn’t fully considered the situation- probably because he hasn’t been faced with the issue IRL.

I could be mistaken, but there is something in where he said, “And the problem you and others are having here is you only see it through your perspective.”

He’s showing that he’s aware there are multiple perspectives - something extremists don’t typically acknowledge.

 

[Escierto]

I don’t get the impression he’s a hater, more just that he hasn’t fully considered the situation- probably because he hasn’t been faced with the issue IRL.

I could be mistaken, but there is something in where he said, “And the problem you and others are having here is you only see it through your perspective.”

He’s showing that he’s aware there are multiple perspectives - something extremists don’t typically acknowledge.

The thing that is strange about this guy is he claims to be a straight arrow heterosexual but he spends all his time on LGBTQIA threads. Who spends all their time worrying that they might talk to a transgender woman who hasn’t confessed to him that she is trans?

 

[TheF1x3r]

The thing that is strange about this guy is he claims to be a straight arrow heterosexual but he spends all his time on LGBTQIA threads.

"Oh no, I sure hope one of those bad trans girls don't trick me"

 

[AlexBailey]

The thing that is strange about this guy is he claims to be a straight arrow heterosexual but he spends all his time on LGBTQIA threads. Who spends all their time worrying that they are might talk to a transgender woman who hasn’t confessed to him that she is trans?

He has stated elsewhere that he’s a closet CD, so there may be some internal conflict involved.

 

[BrendaBear]

He has stated elsewhere that he’s a closet CD, so there may be some internal conflict involved.

Oh… okay… sorry I started to get up on my hind legs then… I apologize if I came across too strong.

 

[TrailerHitch]

I kind of think he is just looking to hate on whoever or maybe stir up stuff,

I think you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. Since I have posted ads looking for a man to explore my bi-curiosity, or a top transsexual, your post seems ridiculous and frankly groundless. Come back when you can do better.

I am trying to discuss this and all I get is idiotic responses like yours.

I am just wondering why, if transgendered people are comfortable in their skin then why is it so difficult to say who and what you are? Yes, my question is that simple.

 

[BrendaBear]

I think you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. Since I have posted ads looking for a man to explore my bi-curiosity, or a top transsexual you post seems ridiculous and frankly groundless. Come back when you can do better.

I am trying to discuss this and all I get is idiotic responses like yours.

I am just wondering why, if transgendered people are comfortable in their skin then why is it so difficult to say who and what you are? Yes, my question is that simple.

Well, I do know my ass from a hole in the ground - but I know nothing about you whatsoever. I already apologized for misinterpreting your questions - the phrasing sounded like trolling. And I truly apologize for that.

 

[TrailerHitch]

The thing that is strange about this guy is he claims to be a straight arrow heterosexual but he spends all his time on LGBTQIA threads. Who spends all their time worrying that they are might talk to a transgender woman who hasn’t confessed to him that she is trans?

Where did I claim that? I am a married man whose wife is fully aware that I am bi-curios and I have placed ads here on lit for a bi-curios man or a top transsexual. Nice try, but it seems you are completely wrong.

I find it hysterical that you want to profile me when you can't tell me why a transgendered man trying to be in a relationship with a man shouldn't tell them that they are transgender. You keep misdirecting and attacking me but you never answer the question. Or is it that you believe the deception is somehow mysterious and makes it more acceptable?

Try to do better next time because this post proves you don't know jack squat about me.

 

[TrailerHitch]

He has stated elsewhere that he’s a closet CD, so there may be some internal conflict involved.

If this is about me you are bald faced lying. I never once said I was a CD, closeted or otherwise. In fact I have absolutely no interest in that at all.

Another example when you can't just answer questions you have to attack and make up utter nonsense to attempt to drive people away. Sorry not leaving and not done asking questions.

 

[stickygirl]

Well, I do know my ass from a hole in the ground - but I know nothing about you whatsoever. I already apologized for misinterpreting your questions - the phrasing sounded like trolling. And I truly apologize for that.

Group hug but please declare your genitals first

 

[BrendaBear]

Group hug but please declare your genitals first

 

[AlexBailey]

If this is about me you are bald faced lying. I never once said I was a CD, closeted or otherwise. In fact I have absolutely no interest in that at all.

Another example when you can't just answer questions you have to attack and make up utter nonsense to attempt to drive people away. Sorry not leaving and not done asking questions.

Oh sorry, my bad. I somehow confused your desire for being a bottom to a trans woman and sucking cock for being a closet CD. It was no insult coming from me.


What made you think I was trying to drive you off? I’ve been engaging with you rather respectfully, asking you to define when someone should tell about their past?

Really, when?
First introduction? First smile? If you’re leaning in for a kiss do they need to stop you first and break out a contract? Is it wrong for a trans person to be stealth?

This isn’t the Politics Forum, I’m not bashing you. I think there is some impracticality to your position and even though you seem open to who you would be with, you have some odd demands on how other people should be allowed to define themselves.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Oh sorry, my bad. I somehow confused your desire for being a bottom to a trans woman and sucking cock for being a closet CD. It was no insult coming from me.


What made you think I was trying to drive you off? I’ve been engaging with you rather respectfully, asking you to define when someone should tell about their past?

Really, when?
First introduction? First smile? If you’re leaning in for a kiss do they need to stop you first and break out a contract? Is it wrong for a trans person to be stealth?

This isn’t the Politics Forum, I’m not bashing you. I think there is some impracticality to your position and even though you seem open to who you would be with, you have some odd demands on how other people should be allowed to define themselves.

Golly since I never said anything about being a CD you assumed something. Funny how you made that conclusion when I was upfront, honest, and posted what I was looking for. Or it could be you were purposely trying to wind me up.

There is no impracticality to my position. Look in my life before I was married I was chatting up a woman in a bar and we were having a great conversation. As we chatted she casually slipped in that she was a lesbian. I'm like okay, still want to chat? Can I still buy you a drink? It made no difference to the conversation to me, but I had no expectations of her going out with me or anything else because she was straight up honest. What's the problem with at transgender doing the same?

 

[AlexBailey]

Golly since I never said anything about being a CD you assumed something. Funny how you made that conclusion when I was upfront, honest, and posted what I was looking for. Or it could be you were purposely trying to wind me up.

There is no impracticality to my position. Look in my life before I was married I was chatting up a woman in a bar and we were having a great conversation. As we chatted she casually slipped in that she was a lesbian. I'm like okay, still want to chat? Can I still buy you a drink? It made no difference to the conversation to me, but I had no expectations of her going out with me or anything else because she was straight up honest. What's the problem with at transgender doing the same?

Honestly I didn’t remember or bother to look up your list of proclivities, I only remembered that you had some curvy lines in what seemed like an otherwise straight world view.

I mentioned you being a CD (and was mistaken-sorry) in response to someone else wondering why you were posting in the LGBTQ forum section.

So you have finally provided an explanation of when you consider to be an appropriate time for someone to mention a reason they think you might not want to continue interacting with them. Good job.

Communicating with you is like pulling teeth.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Honestly I didn’t remember or bother to look up your list of proclivities, I only remembered that you had some curvy lines in what seemed like an otherwise straight world view.

I mentioned you being a CD (and was mistaken-sorry) in response to someone else wondering why you were posting in the LGBTQ forum section.

So you have finally provided an explanation of when you consider to be an appropriate time for someone to mention a reason they think you might not want to continue interacting with them. Good job.

Communicating with you is like pulling teeth.

Not really that hard at all. I asked a straight forward simple question and was immediately set upon by people on here. I was called homophobic and transphobic. All because I wanted to know why it was so hard to tell someone you are transgendered and then let them decide if they wanted to continue the conversation, date, relationship. Obviously I am neither homophobic or transphobic if I have posted ads looking for either of those types of interactions. Maybe if people would not get their panties so tightly in a wad and just look at the question instead of immediately going into attack mode we wouldn't of had 5 pages of this nonsense.

I will say clearly there are 4 or 5 people here that I would NEVER, EVER, NEVER, ask any question about transgenderism again. If I didn't know better I could form a really negative opinion from these interactions. I have known male to female and female to male transgenders and none of them in real life were as hostile as those here.

 

[AlexBailey]

Not really that hard at all. I asked a straight forward simple question and was immediately set upon by people on here. I was called homophobic and transphobic. All because I wanted to know why it was so hard to tell someone you are transgendered and then let them decide if they wanted to continue the conversation, date, relationship. Obviously I am neither homophobic or transphobic if I have posted ads looking for either of those types of interactions. Maybe if people would not get their panties so tightly in a wad and just look at the question instead of immediately going into attack mode we wouldn't of had 5 pages of this nonsense.

I will say clearly there are 4 or 5 people here that I would NEVER, EVER, NEVER, ask any question about transgenderism again. If I didn't know better I could form a really negative opinion from these interactions. I have known male to female and female to male transgenders and none of them in real life were as hostile as those here.

And yet still haven’t been clear in your meaning.

Remaining questions your responses have not answered:

1. Do you mean that anyone who is transgender should pro-offer their genetic identity with someone new in any casual conversation or social interaction?

Or

2. Do you mean that they should only tell someone who they are trying to hook up with their history before engaging in a flirting conversation?

Or is there some other meaning you have yet to be clear about?

 

[TrailerHitch]

And yet still haven’t been clear in your meaning.

Remaining questions your responses have not answered:

1. Do you mean that anyone who is transgender should pro-offer their genetic identity with someone new in any casual conversation or social interaction?

Or

2. Do you mean that they should only tell someone who they are trying to hook up with their history before engaging in a flirting conversation?

Or is there some other meaning you have yet to be clear about?

Here it is plain and simple. I have clearly stated multiple times that it only makes sense if you are sitting in a neighborhood bar, or a club, or whatever, and a man sits down next to you and strikes up a conversation, assuming by looking at you that you are a woman, that you clear that up if things seems to be progressing towards a date or even casual sex.

 

[AchtungNight]

I’m a man and intend to remain one. Keep it simple. But I’m a fan of Kim Petras and the Wachowski siblings. Elliot Page too. And many inspiring women and men.

 

[AlexBailey]

Here it is plain and simple. I have clearly stated multiple times that it only makes sense if you are sitting in a neighborhood bar, or a club, or whatever, and a man sits down next to you and strikes up a conversation, assuming by looking at you that you are a woman, that you clear that up if things seems to be progressing towards a date or even casual sex.

Okay, I understand your point of view and don’t disagree with your sentiment of honesty if you are seeking a relationship with someone.

 

[stickygirl]

It only matters when you involve others as in a romantic relationship. Then it is a moral duty to your prospective partner to be 100% honest about who you are.

Somehow your post got lost in a flurry. I totally agree with this point.

I can't imagine any trans woman risking her safety by not telling a prospective partner, quite apart from showing respect to the other person and their feelings. I can imagine a situation where wires get crossed - it can be difficult to know exactly when to broach the subject. Most trans women my age declare it in their dating app.

In a respectable bar, women have a thousand ways to ease out of situation if a guy is showing an unwelcome interest. If she's trans then she has even more reason to demur.

 

[Razzyricho]

Sex is natural, it’s biology.
Gender is cultural and has been classified by humanity, specifically through language. I’m glad that I live in an age where people have the freedom (in most countries) to express themselves and identify as they please.
Fuck gender and cultural stereotypes, that shit is driven by religion and misogyny!