Healthcare by Executive Order

[4est_4est_Gump]

Uh....


Because of how low our auto insurance is.


Not to mention home insurance. You know, you can save a lot by bundling them...

 

[adrina]

"Proof" by anecdote in comparison to other industries that are ran in entirely different way that cover an entirely different array of services that may or may not be utilized by good chunks of the population.

Depth of a teaspoon there bub.

Good job.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Now you're getting positively incoherent...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

That motherfucking asshole!!!






He just used an EO to waive the Jones Act in order to aid Puerto Rico!!!







NOW! we really hate him!

 

[EternalFantasies]

The stupid is quite confident too.

 

[TalkRadio]

The tragic toll of drug price controls in America

And please tell me how Trump's and the republican's brain child of opening up state lines will bring prices down. Especially considering that even when they are able to, insurance companies don't want to - given the cost and logistical difficulties of out of state networks.

There are fixes that can be applied to the ACA - which were being discussed in committee until Graham Cassidy decided to push forth with their now failed attempt. The reality is that until they look at price controls - like allowing the government to negotiate drug prices - we are going to have out of control costs in a for profit system.

In hopes of driving down drug costs, public authorities all over the world have installed price controls in the pharmaceutical market. This approach, though it generates some short-term savings, is ultimately counterproductive. Price controls significantly restrict patients' access to life-saving medications, condemning many to die from eminently treatable conditions.

One of the most popular forms of drug price controls is "reference pricing." Officials group drugs into therapeutic classes, based on how the drugs attack disease. They then set a single price for each class. In fact, several forms of reference pricing do not distinguish between innovative new medications and older generic alternatives. So, for instance, a new, breakthrough medication gets priced exactly the same as an older, less effective drug that's been off-patent for years. By doing this, reference pricing fails to value the innovative nature of the next generation of treatments and cures.

The justification for these controls rests on a simple story: drug prices as a whole are spiraling skyward, preventing sick patients from affording needed medications. That's pure fiction. Drugs actually represent a relatively small slice of global medical spending. Just consider: over the next decade, spending on prescriptions will account for less than 10 percent of total healthcare spending growth in the OECD, the economic association encompassing the United States, Canada, and much of Europe.

And the price control process significantly degrades patient well-being. Pharmaceutical firms have to undergo a long, drawn-out negotiating process every time they want to sell a new medication in a controlled market. All the while, sick people aren't getting the medicines they need.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-bl...tragic-toll-of-drug-price-controls-in-america

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Or like Life insurance...

 

[TalkRadio]

"Proof" by anecdote in comparison to other industries that are ran in entirely different way that cover an entirely different array of services that may or may not be utilized by good chunks of the population.

Depth of a teaspoon there bub.

Good job.

^^^adrina's incoherent babbling as she channels her inner Obama.

Obama lost without a teleprompter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omHUsRTYFAU

 

[adrina]

Answer me this Einstein:

How many expensive new treatments for your car come out every year?

How many pre-existing conditions does your house have?

How many new drugs are created every year for your car to take?

How much does the average trip to a body shop for a vehicle cost?

How much is the average Hospital stay for one day in the US?

Apply these factors and please tell me how given these numbers that we can save money on insurance premiums without considering any of the base cost?

And none of those take into account that not everyone owns a home or a car but everyone owns a body.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Answer me this Watson:


What entity with its intrusions into the market has raised the cost of health care in the name of doing good that has not really intruded into the other insurance industries?


Do you get the point? Left to its own, the market corrects inefficiencies. And, with every safety and mileage mandate, the cost of car insurance goes up, in case you hadn't noticed. And Life Insurance is probably the next target because they, too, deny preexisting conditions based upon actuarial tables, something which government can afford to ignore...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Really?


I own me?


Then why is government forcing/mandating me to to have health insurance?

 

[TalkRadio]

Answer me this Einstein:

How many expensive new treatments for your car come out every year?

How many pre-existing conditions does your house have?

How many new drugs are created every year for your car to take?

How much does the average trip to a body shop for a vehicle cost?

How much is the average Hospital stay for one day in the US?

Apply these factors and please tell me how given these numbers that we can save money on insurance premiums without considering any of the base cost?

And none of those take into account that not everyone owns a home or a car but everyone owns a body.

The past few days have not be kind to you, adrina.

It was bad enough that you admitted to being a supporter of institutional racism.

Now, you want to "restrict patients' access to life-saving medications, condemning many to die from eminently treatable conditions" via price controls.

 

[Hypoxia]

For years my partner and I were software engineers with a significant insurer that did NOT cover health or life, focusing on Auto, Home, Business, Shipping, Entertainment, etc. The firm operated worldwide (Shipping) and nationally (most else). Each coverage had a software team to update regulatory changes across states. Strict states set de-facto national standards: California, Texas, Delaware, New York. But each had quirks; programmers stayed busy.

We've not worked with Life or Health. My partner's sister was a VERY senior exec at a VERY major Health insurer. She admits the pre-ACA system was a scam at the expense of the poor policyholders. I can't say for Life, but Health is MUCH more regulated than our old firm's coverages. Open national markets will encounter mazes of state regulations. More programmers will stay busy.

Gross generalization: USA healthcare system consists of providers (medics, hospitals), suppliers (drugs, consumables, gear), and funders (insurers, health plans, gov't). Providers and suppliers can be for-profit, non-profit, or public. Funders ONLY process money to pay for those goods and services. Federal overhead: about 4%. Overhead of private funders, pre-ACA: 24%. Yup, 1/5 of premium bucks were siphoned-off for execs and stockholders. Post-ACA their overhead is limited to 16% so they're only leeching 1/8 of your money, 12% margin, still a nice profit.

Where should healthcare go? IMHO a universal Medicare-type plan with the usual payroll deductions. That's the basic single-payer safety net. Private insurers sell extended coverages and supplements to those who want (and can afford) more than the basics. Providers and suppliers get paid from both public and private sources. The health insurance industry won't go away but must adapt to a non-leech existence.

Chancellor von Bismarck, no social justice warrior, setup the first national social services system not from love of Prussian proles but because healthy workers are good for the economy and less likely to stage violent revolution. It's fucking PRAGMATISM. Gups are playing political games with USA national prosperity and survival. Hang the traitors.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Bismarck, as we pointed out in the other thread, established the social state for the benefit of the military.


If universal health care is the absolute answer to everything that ills us, then you must fight to make it mandatory for everyone, but I have yet to see anywhere in the world where it has been made mandatory for everyone other the rich and political...


It is always a two-tier system. Those whom can afford the best that medicine has to offer and then everyone else to whom health care is dominated by a cost-benefit analysis.

 

[adrina]

Healthcare costs have been spiraling out of control for years. Regardless of the ACA. And they will continue to until prices are brought under control and the outrageous profiteering is put in check.

Again with the capitalism regulates itself argument?

Truly naive.

 

[adrina]

Really?


I own me?


Then why is government forcing/mandating me to to have health insurance?

Well you have one. Even if it didn't come with a functioning brain.

Not everyone has a house or car. Nor are the average cost for a house or car anywhere near the average costs for healthcare.

 

[Hypoxia]

Healthcare costs have been spiraling out of control for years. Regardless of the ACA. And they will continue to until prices are brought under control and the outrageous profiteering is put in check.

About fees (all numbers approximate here.) I'm on Medicare with a Blue Shield supplement (not for drugs) and yes I pay premiums. Say I go for a medical procedure. The clinic bills US$10000. My co-pay is $100. Insurers pay their set rate, $2000. The clinic then files a $7900 loss for a fat tax deduction. Uninsured suckers owe the whole $10000. The clinic may cut a discount for cash but that's still a fuck of a lot of money.

That's part of the price-spiraling picture, a phony tax-loss game. Patients are merely collateral damage.

Again with the capitalism regulates itself argument?

Truly naive.

The end-points of unregulated capitalism are cartels and monopolies. Funny thing: de-monopolizing enriches everyone. The Standard Oil 'trust' (monopoly) was broken up in 1912. The board chairman told his directors, "Well boys, it's one damned thing after another." But one year later, all the corporate fragments were worth twice what they had been before, and the Automobile Age truly kicked off. Monopolies inhibit growth and prosperity.

But I digress. When MRI was new, hospitals went on a buying spree of the state-of-the-art tech. One would expect competition between hospitals to drive rates down. Ha. MRI tech cost a shitload; hospitals buying such had to raise rates to cover costs. Unregulated competition drove prices up. Yikes.

 

[adrina]

About fees (all numbers approximate here.) I'm on Medicare with a Blue Shield supplement (not for drugs) and yes I pay premiums. Say I go for a medical procedure. The clinic bills US$10000. My co-pay is $100. Insurers pay their set rate, $2000. The clinic then files a $7900 loss for a fat tax deduction. Uninsured suckers owe the whole $10000. The clinic may cut a discount for cash but that's still a fuck of a lot of money.

That's part of the price-spiraling picture, a phony tax-loss game. Patients are merely collateral damage.

The end-points of unregulated capitalism are cartels and monopolies. Funny thing: de-monopolizing enriches everyone. The Standard Oil 'trust' (monopoly) was broken up in 1912. The board chairman told his directors, "Well boys, it's one damned thing after another." But one year later, all the corporate fragments were worth twice what they had been before, and the Automobile Age truly kicked off. Monopolies inhibit growth and prosperity.

But I digress. When MRI was new, hospitals went on a buying spree of the state-of-the-art tech. One would expect competition between hospitals to drive rates down. Ha. MRI tech cost a shitload; hospitals buying such had to raise rates to cover costs. Unregulated competition drove prices up. Yikes.

Often the cash right now price is what they will get from the insurance companies. However if you do not have the cash at time of service you will be responsible for the full amount.

And we cannot forget about the scheme of so-called non-profit hospitals who will show no profit on their books, yet the people on the boards will be making money hand over fist. There is so much money that we have hospitals eating cities. Giant complexes and equipment being built and bought to offset any profit shown.

None of this takes into account that the price masters arbitrarily create pricing structures with no or little basis in reality.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Healthcare costs have been spiraling out of control for years.

86' is when it started, that's when the government first stuck it's dick up into the HC market.

Regardless of the ACA. And they will continue to until prices are brought under control and the outrageous profiteering is put in check.

Not regardless of the ACA, believe it or not that has real world impacts and they're negative despite allllll your love for Dear Leader.

And it's not profiteering, it's "crony" capitalism which isn't capitalism at all as it's government control over the means of production and or the markets that production is exchanged on that facilitates it.

Again with the capitalism regulates itself argument?

Truly naive.

Worked fine for years until people like you decided you have a RIGHT to others goods and services without having to pay for it.

 

[adrina]

86' is when it started, that's when the government first stuck it's dick up into the HC market.



Not regardless of the ACA, believe it or not that has real world impacts and they're negative despite allllll your love for Dear Leader.

And it's not profiteering, it's "crony" capitalism which isn't capitalism at all as it's government control over the means of production and or the markets that production is exchanged on that facilitates it.



Worked fine for years until people like you decided you have a RIGHT to others goods and services without having to pay for it.

How did/does the government control the means of production for healthcare? And how did this lead to the ways in which the pricemasters set the prices?

 

[thør]

I know this thread's not about the NHS, but this was too good to pass up.

 

[thør]

86' is when it started, that's when the government first stuck it's dick up into the HC market.

I thought it started in '73 with Dick Nixon.

 

[Aglaopheme]

Hey, stupid, I'm sure that by now this has been pointed out to you, but where the fuck was your angst and outrage when President Obama was running health care by executive order???

Where were you???

Prove I did that.


Like I said, you didn't mind it when President Obama was doing it, so your outrage now is a little something that Liberals are always screaming about...,



HYPOCRISY.

Adrina wasn't even here when Obama was our President.


So.....

You can't prove it. I knew it.


Hypocrite.

 

[Aglaopheme]

Here is just a few from the first two pages out of five. I did not include the numerous articles you linked to that lambasted Obama for using EOs.

You're welcome.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=71802768&highlight=Executive+order#post71802768

It will be done by executive order.



We have a King now...
__________________

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=72524336&postcount=4

I am merely pointing out the reality that President Obama feels no compulsion whatsoever to abide by any court ruling (or law) that he deems to be counter to his agenda. He will simply create a new executive order with different wording that achieves the same goal and then demand that the states sue him, again.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=82854640&postcount=17

When he decided to rule by executive order, bypassing Congress and in effect, legislating without the legislature he was following in the footsteps of his Heroes, Woodrow Wilson, FDR and LBJ. He was a thoroughly a Fabian Socialist as any one of his heroes.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=65792707&postcount=4

*chuckle*



And we are being plundered and our Chief namer of things now declares that the House of Representatives may just as well disband because he will increase the plunder by executive order.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=65574519&postcount=12


http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=62999099&postcount=40

The more proper course of action would be to issue a very short-term continuing resolution, get into the new year and then continue to highlight his crony bundler appointments, something even the unwashed masses can fully understand and make it clear to him that the quid pro quo for his desired appointees is a roll-back of his unlawful executive order.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=61734195&postcount=13

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=38983024&postcount=7

Congress is now the appendix of the Political order.

Executive decree. Long live the King!

 

[BotanyBoy]

How did/does the government control the means of production for healthcare? And how did this lead to the ways in which the pricemasters set the prices?

They forced hospitals to give away their ER services.

Which caused problems...big time that led to legislative bandaids though attaboy deals and cronyism to keep the junk system running.

Fast forward 30 years and this is the automotive cluster fuck equivalent of our corrupted, mutant, non-functional HC "system".

I thought it started in '73 with Dick Nixon.

If Nixon did it up, which is entirely possible then ok. I'm just ignorant of the details surrounding his stance and actions involving HC.