Sexy Short, first piece ever.

[ICM8781]

Hello All,

I wrote a short and submitted it recently. It's about a first meeting, and I'd really like some feedback. I am currently writing another one, possibly longer, that I want to participate in the valentines contest with. Any feedback would be great, but constructive feedback would be preferred, LOL. Thank you in advanced. It's a quick read, only 2 pages long, and focuses on the action, not the story.
http://www.literotica.com/s/sexy-short-ethan-and-lana

 

[ICM8781]

For the commenter on my submit ion

Thank you, I wanted exactly this kind of critique. As far as category being wrong, I agree, when I read through the the erotic coupling category of stories, it didn't seem like the kind of fit compared to the other stories initially, and romance was really the only one I really saw other wise. But now that it's explained, you are right PWP, isn't that romantic. Faux work. The thing with puting faux work in dialog, was kind of special for this. I felt there was so little dialog, that using a little faux work for dialog filled in the emptiness of noise otherwise. I removed them in my base copy and reread, and there are pluses and minuses for removing the faux work. I have a feeling it's going to depend on the tone and situations of the story. I am writing a longer more plot driven story that doesn't have any faux work in it. In that context the faux work didn't, well, work. Grammar? I have always been mediocre in grammar, and I also asked about this in the AH thread. I must have proof read through 30 or more times, and then still saw much of my errors after I submitted. The dialog complaint is also the same issue as the faux work. There was just so little dialog, that I felt I needed to put something in there. I also wanted Lana to get kind of a goofy and obvious of what was going to happen. I tried to put a little tongue in cheek humor, and that bit was one of them, mostly because you hear woman in porns say it so often. Again thank you for your critique.

 

[robertreams]

Lots and lots of grammatical, tense, and stylistic errors, get an editor right away.

Garson (passed)paced the hallway of his small budget hotel (room). He was waiting (quite) impatiently for (a) his first time meeting with, Lana, a beautiful woman he had been talking to online since the last time he (was) had been in LA. He was in LA on business, and had (just) happened to get a hotel room next to hers. (girl). He (was) had been in a better room back then. His company has since acted (like) as if (the) inflation (wasn't) weren't happening, (and has) (still) setting the room budget (for) at only $100. Obviously, this time he (had) would have to settle for something less.

This meeting (was) had been planned before Ethan (had) arrived. He had tried to talk her into going (back) to her place. Lana Had almost agreed (to that too), however she had become more (started getting) apprehensive as the (closer the) date had neared. {or drawn near} (gotten).

That is only the first two paragraphs. 1.) forget you ever saw the word "just"

 

[litmlove]

* Not bad for your first effort

* For the moment ignore the grammar issues, your more fundamental problem is that you are struggling to properly develop your sentences. I think it is this problem that makes your story difficult to comprehend and follow in an enjoyable fashion. Sorry, but your story failed to build any momentum to keep me enthralled as a reader (a bigger & better backstory would also help).

I strongly recommend you read a book about Sentences as a unit of composition. Learn the causes & the effect of chaining too many short sentences together, how to draw attention to actions & objects merely by their order of placement, and the general power of a well written sentence. Also, often in your long sentences you confusingly change focus mid-sentence.

Don't worry about your grammar problem, it will take care of itself with a little more writing experience (or alternately enlist a patient&understanding editor from these forums).

* So it's a sex-fueled short story. Does this mean you can skip character development and story conflict? I don't think so. You are cheating you sex scenes of a massive erotic-tension to release that a developed backstory builds toward.

* You have a lurid imagination <-- I think it's a good thing but it probably also explains why you skipped writing a character building backstory. Maybe you should write a melodrama which culminates in a fantastical sex scene.

 

[CWatson]

I haven't much new to add, but I wanted to re-inforce what litmlove said, just to make it clear that s/he is not the only one having these problems.

1) Your technicals are flawed enough to be problematic for me. You have tense changes, missing dashes ("know-it-all" needs hyphens, for instance), sentence fragments, misplaced commas, unnecessary apostrophes, misspellings ("guild" instead of "guide"), and more. There's a certain amount of these things that I can gloss over, but you've crossed that threshold, for good or ill.

2) I too wanted some more character build-up. You've explained a little bit about Ethan and Lana, but only about their recent past, which mostly consists of them flirting--which, when it comes to two people who are clearly thinking about fucking each other, is merely par for the course. I don't have any sense of who they are as people. Why should I care about these two? Because they're about to have hot sex? 'cuz I can get that in video. (Hell, I can get that from my girlfriend! ) Your job, as an author, is to make the characters sympathetic and endearing, so that The Reader has something to empathize with and can see themselves in the characters. Your job is to make the characters likeable, so that The Reader wants them to get their hearts' (or loins') desire. It doesn't have to be much, but it needs to exist. Hot sex alone ain't enough.

You can take all of this with a grain of salt because I have very high standards for these two things. (You should see my stories! 50,000 words of build-up for 1,000 words of sex. It took me years to write a story that was 100% fucking and it's my lowest-rated work ever.) But litm and I probably aren't the only ones having this reaction.

And we're telling you all this because we know you can take it. This is your first story? Because it's very, very good work. You have an excellent imagination and the irreplaceable gift of being able to translate your thoughts to the page more-or-less accurately. One or both of those can be sorely lacking in many authors. You have them, so you're going to go far.

Go, be brilliant. You can do it. =)

 

[robertreams]

* Not bad for your first effort

* For the moment ignore the grammar issues, your more fundamental problem is that you are struggling to properly develop your sentences. I think it is this problem that makes your story difficult to comprehend and follow in an enjoyable fashion. Sorry, but your story failed to build any momentum to keep me enthralled as a reader (a bigger & better backstory would also help).

I strongly recommend you read a book about Sentences as a unit of composition. Learn the causes & the effect of chaining too many short sentences together, how to draw attention to actions & objects merely by their order of placement, and the general power of a well written sentence. Also, often in your long sentences you confusingly change focus mid-sentence.

Don't worry about your grammar problem, it will take care of itself with a little more writing experience (or alternately enlist a patient&understanding editor from these forums).

* So it's a sex-fueled short story. Does this mean you can skip character development and story conflict? I don't think so. You are cheating you sex scenes of a massive erotic-tension to release that a developed backstory builds toward.

* You have a lurid imagination <-- I think it's a good thing but it probably also explains why you skipped writing a character building backstory. Maybe you should write a melodrama which culminates in a fantastical sex scene.

If writing good sentences is not grammar, what is? There is always style but it hinges on being able to put together sentences. "In linguistics, grammar is the set of structural rules governing the composition of clauses, phrases, and words in any given natural language." Good sources are "Strunk and White, The Elements of Style", "The Chicago Manual of Style";on-line there is "The Purdue Owl" I have used them all, but I love the Strunk and White: simple concise, easy to read and use. It has been the standard for many years.

 

[litmlove]

If writing good sentences is not grammar, what is? There is always style but it hinges on being able to put together sentences. "In linguistics, grammar is the set of structural rules governing the composition of clauses, phrases, and words in any given natural language." Good sources are "Strunk and White, The Elements of Style", "The Chicago Manual of Style";on-line there is "The Purdue Owl" I have used them all, but I love the Strunk and White: simple concise, easy to read and use. It has been the standard for many years.

Strunk and White's The Elements of Style is a great book to tell you what not to do, but it also has its limitations. The book is an obsessive rant demanding that all writing should be perfectly neat. This might be true when newspaper writing, but it's not entirely true when writing fiction and completely irrelevant when writing for advertising. It will not tell him how to be a writer.

That ^ and it only has one or two examples on each issue it glances over.

And you are right about Grammar; I meant "his issues with punctuation should be ignored", not grammar.

FWIW If you do a quick search on Amazon you will find dozens of interesting books which cover particular topics of writing [or use your choice of online bookstore].

 

[ICM8781]

Just a note on character build up.

As said by the person who commented on it, I think that the fact that I categorized it wrong, may have been the peeve. I knew this was no literary master piece and while I do appreciate the comments, I don't you think you understood the concept behind the art. A lot of what you think were style faults were actually part of the tone of the piece. The run on sentences, not in grammar but in structure, were done on purpose. I guess I could have made it more professional and literally accurate, but I wanted a sense of art first before professionalism. The quick changes of focus was an attempt to mimick the mind of Ethan, a sort of squirlly unsure, almost teenager like excitement. It's also why Lana's side of the story is very determined and confident. I'm not really trying to do anything straight forward, and am trying to focus on my own voice as primary. I suppose the lack of proper grammar took away from recognizing that, which is why it wasn't. The lack of backstory was also on purpose. It was intentional that the reader didn't get any backstory because I wanted to convey that neither Lana nor Ethan knew that much about each other. (They were supposed to go on a date first) In my mind there was no point of providing a backstory if the only two main characters didn't even know their backstory, and inane Internet chatter didn't really provide backstory for either the reader or the in story characters. Saying it was their first meeting besides an Internet relationship seemed to be enough.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm throwing your critiques back in your face, it's not my intention. I wanted to explain the reasoning behind what I think were not necessarily grammatical or style faults, and maybe you could help me with writing them better for the intention it was meant to convey. Maybe I'm thinking ahead of my ability right now, but my favorite books, and stories hear on the site were those that changed the tone of the writing based on the currently active character, situation, or action.

 

[CWatson]

That's good thinking and good instincts. You definiitely have the gift. =)

Here's the thing, though. There's a difference between writing that's "bad" on purpose and writing that's bad on accident. You were going for "bad" on purpose, as a stylistic choice, but you hit actually-bad by missing too many technicals. Run-on sentences are fine, and a good thing to use when stylistically appropriate (and I agree that your story is one of those times), but you still need to get everything else right. That way The Reader knows that your "mistakes" aren't mistakes, they were done on purpose. A writer's voice can only emerge in the absence of errors. It's that simple.

As to lack of back story: it is a very good point that they don't know each other too well. I also need to apologize on behalf of all of us, because "back story" was possibly not the right term to use. The correct word was "chemistry." When Ethan and Lana approach the meeting, sex with each other is clearly something they've considered attempting, whether by mutual discussion or in the privacy of their own hearts. This implies that they know each other at least a little--at least enough to have asked themselves, "Is this a person I might want to fuck?," and answered, "Yes."--because most people don't fuck other people at first sight. So, given that they know each other at least a little, a question immediately arises: what did they learn? What is it about Ethan that causes Lana to want to fuck him, and vice versa? Is it physical appearance? Is it personality? You didn't say much about either character's appearance--which is a brave choice for a beginning author, partially because it's also the correct choice for an experienced one--but you didn't say much about their personalities either. As a result, the characters not only don't have chemistry, they can't have it--there's nothing to react to. So why are they doing it? Well, it seems that they're doing it because you, The Author, say they have to. And that's not very compelling. =/

Maybe I'm thinking ahead of my ability right now

You are, but keep doing it. That's how you get better. =) (And I can't tell you how refreshing it is when an author knows their limitations. Too many people come here assuming they're already Nobel-worthy writers.)

 

[ICM8781]

That was the point.

For my first submission, I knew it wanted to be short. While yes, lust at first sight doesn't normally happen, it does happen. For a story as short as this, I figured it was a perfect subject for my first submission. It was also the domino effect of the comedy of errors that occurred. If Lana hadn't felt herself up in the car, she wouldn't have wet herself at the door. If she hadn't wet herself, Ethan wouldn't have thought she was shy, and tried to test her. If Lana was actually shy, she would have stopped his advances, let alone try harder. It wasn't chemistry that brought them to sex, it was just the various mostly self caused actions and misconceptions. To be honest, the scene was really just an add on, because I felt Lana didn't get her fair share of the actions.

 

[robertreams]

Run-on sentences are fine? In what language? I recently edited a writer who used the word "and" over 300 times in 36 pages. "I went to the door and opened it and went inside and sat down and etc." This type of writing is not okay. It is trite and immature and BORING. An occasional run-on might fit one's style quite well, but habitual run-ons read like shit. Our language is much to rich to have everything be just amazing and real pretty and quite wonderful and very cute and still happy. Do not encourage developing writers to be sloppy in their work. Doing it right may not be easy, but it is rewarding. "Strunk and White" is rigid because it gives us the rules. Would you have them say, "anything is okay"? Once one learns the rules, then one knows how to bend them the way one wants for stylistic effect, but merely hammering it out any which way because one is too lazy or too uninformed to do it right, is not OK in my book. Good writing is not a matter of opinion.

 

[Trip_Dalton]

Run-on sentences are fine? In what language? I recently edited a writer who used the word "and" over 300 times in 36 pages. "I went to the door and opened it and went inside and sat down and etc." This type of writing is not okay. It is trite and immature and BORING. An occasional run-on might fit one's style quite well, but habitual run-ons read like shit. Our language is much to rich to have everything be just amazing and real pretty and quite wonderful and very cute and still happy. Do not encourage developing writers to be sloppy in their work. Doing it right may not be easy, but it is rewarding. "Strunk and White" is rigid because it gives us the rules. Would you have them say, "anything is okay"? Once one learns the rules, then one knows how to bend them the way one wants for stylistic effect, but merely hammering it out any which way because one is too lazy or too uninformed to do it right, is not OK in my book. Good writing is not a matter of opinion.

Me thinks you're way out of line there Mr. Editor. Fiction isn't all about rules, its about telling a story. Sure, the narrator should have decent grammar, but even that can break all the rules.

Below is the first paragraph of James Whitcomb Riley's "Alex Tells a Bear Story" and you can piss and moan all you want, but for almost fifty years this has been a family classic, at least to me and mine.

THE BEAR STORY

That Alex "ist maked up his-own-se'f"

W'y, wunst they wuz a Little Boy went out
In the woods to shoot a Bear.1 So, he went out
'Way in the grea'-big woods - he did, - An' he
Wuz goin' along -an' goin' along, you know,
An' purty soon he heerd somepin' go "Wooh!"
Ist thataway - "Woo-ooh!" An' he wuz skeered,
He wuz. An' so he runned an' clumbed a tree -
A grea'-big tree, he did, - a sicka-more2 tree.
An' nen he heerd it ag'in: an' he looked round,
An' 't'uz a Bear - a grea'big shore-'nuff Bear!-
No: 't'uz two Bears, it wuz -two grea'big Bears-
One of 'em wuz -lst one's a grea'-big Bear. -
But they ist boff went "Wooh!" -An' here they come
To climb the tree an' git the Little Boy
An' eat him up!

Okay so not what the OP did, but saying you have no creative license when you write fiction is bullshit.

 

[robertreams]

Wanna bet a hundred bucks that James Whitcomb Riley knew the rules of grammar and how to write a good sentence before he wrote "The Bear Story"? If he didn't he could never have written what you posted. He wrote none of what you posted out of ignorance, or because it was easy. I often give my characters dialect, but that is not the same thing as writing run-ons because you don't know any better. Or because the writers themselves speak "valley girl". Try to understand the difference between well chosen words, which Riley has definitely used and uninformed scrawl.

When did I say one had no creative license? In fact, if you read my post, I said the opposite. I said, know the rules BEFORE you bend them to your own style, did I not?
As an editor, one should be able to tell the difference between intentional usage and grammatical error.

 

[Trip_Dalton]

Run-on sentences are fine? In what language? I recently edited a writer who used the word "and" over 300 times in 36 pages.

Okay smart ass, I took the first story from your list and pasted it in MS Word.

13 pages, 6903 words, and you used the word "And" 229 times.

Not to mention your spelling errors. So maybe you should tone it down a bit.

Now as far as Riley's story, sure you can say that, but if an idiot sat down and wrote just like that, it would be just as beautiful, and let's face it, he didn't need to know proper grammar to write it, he needed an imagination, and your posts sound like you'd rather squash imagination for better grammar.

 

[robertreams]

People post in here and ASK for feedback. One would assume they wish to hear it. I have asked may times for volunteers to edit my work. I have claimed in these posts over and over again that everyone needs an editor. I need an editor badly. Want to volunteer? For the third time, I did not suggest that anyone squash their creativity, only that they edit their work or ask someone else to. Many times in these posts I have suggested that writers approach their craft by letting their ideas flow freely first, then going back and editing their work. This is not an exercise that stifles curiosity, but one that encourages new writers to better their work. That is why they come on this thread asking for our advice. I will continue to give my advice as long as others keep asking for it. While you are at it, notice that I am approaching a million downloads and that the majority of my stories have red H's. This may not be the best record on Lit., but it certainly isn't bad.

 

[robertreams]

Should I say sir that you are ingenuous, mistaken, or merely that you are a liar? I have just come from my story listings where I again perused my first listed story, "A Lust For Life" In the first eighteen paragraphs there are only 15 "and"s. Each of them is used properly as in "bread and butter", not to create a run-on.

 

[sr71plt]

I have been hesitating on jumping in on this, but it must be said. As good as Strunk and White is for basic understanding of the elements or writing, it's for high school essays, not for commercial fiction. Yes, it's good to have and consult Strunk and White and to grasp its guidance. But, no, it's not good to stop there when writing, editing, or critiquing commercial fiction. (And I think that far too many Literotica readers who leave "get an editor" comments on stories have never progressed beyond Strunk and White and don't seem to be able to connect the commercial fiction they read with the stories they are reading on Literotica).

You can use run-on sentences and sentence fragments (more of the latter than the former) in commercial fiction--even in the narrative; more frequently in dialogue. You just need to do so sparingly and for specific effect and rhythm. Spelling and punctuation are more rigid, but you also need to know stuff beyond Strunk and White to get those under control in commercial fiction.

Starting with mastering Strunk and White, though, yes, is a good start. Not enough to be trying to be authoritative or critical on commercial fiction, though.

 

[Trip_Dalton]

Should I say sir that you are ingenuous, mistaken, or merely that you are a liar? I have just come from my story listings where I again perused my first listed story, "A Lust For Life" In the first eighteen paragraphs there are only 15 "and"s. Each of them is used properly as in "bread and butter", not to create a run-on.

You can call me mistaken all you want. It takes thirty seconds to paste that story into MS Word and highlight every instance of the word "And" and your shit lights up yellow like its Christmas

But hey, rather than being humbled, go ahead be a dick, have a great day.

 

[robertreams]

I have been hesitating on jumping in on this, but it must be said. As good as Strunk and White is for basic understanding of the elements or writing, it's for high school essays, not for commercial fiction. Yes, it's good to have and consult Strunk and White and to grasp its guidance. But, no, it's not good to stop there when writing, editing, or critiquing commercial fiction. (And I think that far too many Literotica readers who leave "get an editor" comments on stories have never progressed beyond Strunk and White and don't seem to be able to connect the commercial fiction they read with the stories they are reading on Literotica).

You can use run-on sentences and sentence fragments (more of the latter than the former) in commercial fiction--even in the narrative; more frequently in dialogue. You just need to do so sparingly and for specific effect and rhythm. Spelling and punctuation are more rigid, but you also need to know stuff beyond Strunk and White to get those under control in commercial fiction.

Starting with mastering Strunk and White, though, yes, is a good start. Not enough to be trying to be authoritative or critical on commercial fiction, though.

Pilot: did you read the sample in question or only respond to my Strunk and White comment? Also, you repeated what I said. Get a good grip on the fundamentals first, let your creativity fly, then apply what you know and go from there. I will compare my writing in"A Lust For Life with the above quoted passage anytime anyone likes. I do not claim and have never claimed to be perfect or any where near close to it. Anyone may like or dislike my work or give me any feedback they like. Now I am being placed in the position of having dissed a poor innocent writer, who asked for my input and got what he asked for. if you read my initial post, I praised his work, but suggested he get more grounding in the fundamentals. I stand by that statement, no matter how many "and"s I used in any of my works, I was asked to respond, I did. I also admitted that my work mentioned needed editing, as does all my work, and I have consistently said so.

 

[sr71plt]

I only responded to the Strunk and White comment. The answer to that always will be that Strunk and White is good for high school themes, but it's not flexible or detailed enough for commercial fiction. I'm not engaged in any other element of this discussion. It's a good start for someone who wants to know grammar; it's not an answer for someone who wants to master commercial fiction grammar.

 

[Trip_Dalton]

You brought up the word "And" not me or anyone else. I've jusy noticed over the last you, you tell almost every other person that gives advice, they're wrong.

You came here, posted your opinion, (I agree you should) and then you come back and stomp on everyone else's, and that's BS.

These threads aren't here for you and all the other grammar nazis to start pissing matches in.

 

[robertreams]

ICM, listen to everyone's advice on here but mine and I apologize for ever having said anything. My critique was total nonsense and I shouldn't have said anything. Feel free to create, and I apologize to everyone.

 

[robertreams]

Dalton you are an ass I do not apologize to you! I was the first to give advice, then someone suggested a book on sentences, then I recommended the very book, how is that dissing their comments, sounds like agreeing to me. If you go back and read the posts, it was you who stomped on my advice, saying ignore grammar, which was my advice so maybe it is time for a bit of honesty on your part. Your first entry remarks on my suggestions, not the other way around. you were the one who told ICM to ignore my advice,( putting words in my mouth and saying I advised him to ignore creativity), not the other way around. Here I am truing to apologize and you are right back on it with your prevarications.

Sorry ICM it was your post, sorry it turned into a fight from my simple advice, that should not have happened.

 

[Trip_Dalton]

Dalton you are an ass I do not apologize to you! I was the first to give advice, then someone suggested a book on sentences, then I recommended the very book, how is that dissing their comments, sounds like agreeing to me. If you go back and read the posts, it was you who stomped on my advice, saying ignore grammar, which was my advice so maybe it is time for a bit of honesty on your part. Your first entry remarks on my suggestions, not the other way around. you were the one who told ICM to ignore my advice,( putting words in my mouth and saying I advised him to ignore creativity), not the other way around. Here I am truing to apologize and you are right back on it with your prevarications.

Sorry ICM it was your post, sorry it turned into a fight from my simple advice, that should not have happened.

Damn, aren't we a cry baby, my god, get over yourself already . . . .

 

[PennLady]

As others have said, you could use some help on the grammar and such to smooth things out.

I read the feedback a commenter left and would generally agree. However, I'd go a little further and say that another issue with the story is the old show v tell argument. You "tell" the reader everything, instead of "showing" it via the characters and their words and reactions. Every story needs a balance of both.

I personally find that the problem with telling is that it dulls the story and keeps me at a remove from the characters. Erotica (or even porn) works better if the reader can relate to or empathize with the characters somehow, and I find that difficult when I'm just being handed out facts about them.

Showing how your characters are also makes the story more lively, IMO; more active and engaging. One way you could do this -- just an example -- would be to have a scene of Ethan preparing for his evening. He could be muttering to himself, remembering previous bad dates, looking at a picture of Lana, etc., and then the reader would learn about him because you would show us what he's like.

Same with Lana. There could be a separate, somewhat parallel scene of her getting ready, and then we could learn her insecurities, etc.