Is it OK for Israel to kill Palestinain Kids?

[RobDownSouth]

Everyone does wrong at some point whether intentional or not. So the answer is yes. I return the question... Is Hamas ever capable of doing anything peaceful?

And forget your baseline. I'm not committed to either side. The vast majority of people (outside of this forum) are lodged in the center.

You're not committed to either side? Duly noted. I look forward to seeing if your subsequent posts back your assertion.

To answer your question, yes, Hamas is capable of doing some thing peaceful. There were three accounts in Israeli newspapers today of Hamas political forces stopping militant Hamas factions from attacking Israelis. We need more of that. A lot more.

Hamas is just as much an aggressor here as the Israelis are, and are probably worse. The fact that they are worse than the Israelis is a dubious distinction, but one that the Israel apologists on this board cling to with the fervor of a drowning man clinging to a life preserver.

 

[adventrkupl]

Yes, it is. If one side hides within a crowd of innocent civilians and shoots at the other side, the other side will shoot back. The innocents who are killed will die because of the actions of the people hiding among them.

That's why such actions are supposedly outlawed by the Geneva Convention. HAMAS is not a signatory to that, BTW.

No disrespect, but it looks like you're wasting your "breath". The kid looks like he needs to occupy a Manhattan park and smoke some more weed. He's certainly a poor representative of the liberal cause. But then I see some of that on the other side here as well.

 

[Que]

Yea it's the HAMAS and Palestinians fault the Israelis killed a bunch of kids hua Mr.Personal Responsibility?

Another conservative vetteman classic ladies and gentlemen...point the finger at the other team when your team does some fucked up shit, because so much conservative vetteman personal responsibility.

Those Jew loving Egyptians located right next door and trying in vain to broker peace seem to think the latest round of deaths in on the heads of Hamas' leadership.

Is the IDF responding with disproportionate force? Of course. How else does one fight asymmetrical warfare from the superior forces side?

Is there something different you would do in your strike plan?

I assume you would concur that Hamas is unlikely to modify their behavior in face of anything other than overwhelming force. That part of the world doesn't put a lot of value in meekness, does it?

 

[Busybody]

There are no kids

Only terrorists

Kill em all

Disembowel em

Draw and quarter em

 

[BotanyBoy]

Yes, it is. If one side hides within a crowd of innocent civilians and shoots at the other side, the other side will shoot back. The innocents who are killed will die because of the actions of the people hiding among them.

No it's not dumb shit...it's the person pulling the trigger....they are ALWAYS responsible because the ALWAYS have a choice, you can sell that steaming pile of gestapo bull fucking shit elsewhere cupcake. It didn't fly for the Nazi's in WWII, the US military in Iraq and it sure as fuck doesn't fly for your precious, beloved Israelis today.

Sorry....

They knowingly and intentionally shot a bunch of fuckin' kids right? Yea?? Then they should be fucking hanged for war crimes. No shocker you n' vetty are here making every fucking excuse under the god damn sun you can think of for them. Bunch of shit birds.

That's why such actions are supposedly outlawed by the Geneva Convention.

So their breaking of the Geneva Conventions (to which you pointed out they are not subject too) makes it ok for our allies to waste a bunch of kids and in the process win over your unyielding knob slobbing support in the process right??

Do you even read the shit you post?

HAMAS is not a signatory to that, BTW.

No shit.....

 

[Dream59]

I probably glossed over your comment about Hamas, to be honest, when you guys start bragging about your heroic war exploits, I change the channel.

So I'm willing to stipulate you're a genuine first class war hero. Uh-rah. Yay for you. *clapping*

Now to answer your question. Do I know how many innocents Hamas has killed. Nope. Do you? I don't know how many innocents the Israeli Waffen-IDF has killed either. I tend to hold the Israelis to a higher standard of conduct because they are a professional military force. Wanton killing of civilians by professional military forces is considered very poor form, wouldn't you agree?

The question then becomes, should the Israeli Waffen-IDF lower their standards of conduct to match that of their aggressors (the so-called "vetteman solutions") or should they set the example and abide by the rules of war specified in the Geneva Conventions? I tend to gravitate towards the latter approach, but that's just me....we may simply have a legitimate difference of opinion here.

Finally, what's your take on the old axiom "two wrongs don't make a right"?

I never said I was a hero but thanks for your vote of confidence. Your Nazi reference to Israel shows a lot of class too by the way. As for the Geneva Convention, Hamas is not a signatory of it and I am not sure if Israel is or not. It never came up in any class or conversation I have had. But my opinion is you fight as your opponent fights. If they want to follow the GC then by all means do so, if they refuse then you fight them on their terms. To follow rules your opponent refuses to follow only gets more of yours killed, but since you hold our servicemen and women in such low regard I am sure you do not care. When a missile has been launched into your own country, and you give warning that you are going to blast the site where it was launched, and they still have kids there, it just goes to show you that Hamas cares nothing about their kids, they will leave that to whiney bastards like you, but that they care only for the propaganda that will result from the killing of their own children.

 

[adventrkupl]

You're not committed to either side? Duly noted. I look forward to seeing if your subsequent posts back your assertion.

Not trying to be a jerk, but I'm not trying to impress you or anyone else, so don't hold your breath.

It would be nice to see Hamas do more things that resemble moral behavior. And they need to be called out for it when they do it. But they also need to be held to account on the terrorism they create.

Now imagine yourself as an Israeli citizen running to a bomb shelter dragging your kids because some organization hates the very fact that you are alive and is trying to kill you. Then the Palestinian father who tries to do the same knowing his place will be bombed because there is a rocket battery right outside his window, but he is forbidden to leave the site.

These people are the real victims. Both of them. Today, both of them are being terrorized. So you can whine about who is dying and who isn't, or you can accept that as long as rockets rain down on Israel, that government will defend it's people as it should. And innocent along with guilty Palestinians will continue to die.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Those Jew loving Egyptians located right next door and trying in vain to broker peace seem to think the latest round of deaths in on the heads of Hamas' leadership.

So do you despite the fact it was Israeli rounds killing Palestinian kids.

Is the IDF responding with disproportionate force? Of course.

So THAT is what they call murder and war crimes these days? Interesting....

How else does one fight asymmetrical warfare from the superior forces side?

Ya go chase the piece of shit down, maybe some well placed shots, you don't order all hands on line to open fire into the crowd...

Is there something different you would do in your strike plan?

Yea a memo not to makes us look like fucking assholes by running about wasting unarmed women and children.

I assume you would concur that Hamas is unlikely to modify their behavior in face of anything other than overwhelming force. That part of the world doesn't put a lot of value in meekness, does it?

Nope....I wish Israel would quit being such fucking pussies and get it the fuck over with, other than the fact America would HAVE to jump in because RWCJ LOONZ would have to run and save their precious.

 

[Dream59]

No it's not dumb shit...it's the person pulling the trigger....they are ALWAYS responsible because the ALWAYS have a choice, you can sell that steaming pile of gestapo bull fucking shit elsewhere cupcake. It didn't fly for the Nazi's in WWII, the US military in Iraq and it sure as fuck doesn't fly for your precious, beloved Israelis today.

Easy for you to say when your happy ass is safe at home and not being shot at. You can not send people to fight and ask them to just stand there and be gunned down without trying to save their own life. You are a product of having someone else covering your ass your whole life. It is the fault of the people that choose to fight behind innocents that the innocents died, as they are the ones that chose to pull the fucking trigger while surrounded by innocents. How is that cupcake?

 

[adventrkupl]

No it's not dumb shit...... Bunch of shit birds.

.....

WOW...! Is there an ignore button?

 

[Que]

I probably glossed over your comment about Hamas, to be honest, when you guys start bragging about your heroic war exploits, I change the channel.

So I'm willing to stipulate you're a genuine first class war hero. Uh-rah. Yay for you. *clapping*

What amusing dissembling. You take copious notes on all your real or imagine foes, especially any and all references to their military service.

I figure it is just bitterness left over from your feelings of inadequacy knowing you wouldn't be accepted on vision and weight alone. It's OK, I was granted a weight waiver to encourage me to enlist Of course in my case I was overly fit. Long distance runners tend to be a little underweight.

 

[Dream59]

Not trying to be a jerk, but I'm not trying to impress you or anyone else, so don't hold your breath.

It would be nice to see Hamas do more things that resemble moral behavior. And they need to be called out for it when they do it. But they also need to be held to account on the terrorism they create.

Now imagine yourself as an Israeli citizen running to a bomb shelter dragging your kids because some organization hates the very fact that you are alive and is trying to kill you. Then the Palestinian father who tries to do the same knowing his place will be bombed because there is a rocket battery right outside his window, but he is forbidden to leave the site.

These people are the real victims. Both of them. Today, both of them are being terrorized. So you can whine about who is dying and who isn't, or you can accept that as long as rockets rain down on Israel, that government will defend it's people as it should. And innocent along with guilty Palestinians will continue to die.

That innocents die with the guilty is a sad fact of any war. It always has been and always will be.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Easy for you to say when your happy ass is safe at home and not being shot at.

LOL

You can not send people to fight and ask them to just stand there and be gunned down without trying to save their own life.

That's exactly what the US military and law enforcement is expected to do every fucking day they are on the job asshole.....every fucking day.

You don't spray and pray into innocent civilians....we take the bullet first because we ARE better than that. No positive ID on target? No clean shot to take them out without wasting a truck load of un-armed small children in the process?

Then there is no engagement...end of discussion.

You are a product of having someone else covering your ass your whole life.

My PH licence plates, Combat Infantryman's Badge and 3800 bucks a month in retirement from the Army that say otherwise.

It is the fault of the people that choose to fight behind innocents that the innocents died, as they are the ones that chose to pull the fucking trigger while surrounded by innocents.

No...it's not, it's the person who shot the innocent children's fault there Col. Personal Responsibility. 1 or 2..hell even a handful of folks hurt/killed? Collateral damage no problem....shit happens.

From what I'm reading? Bullshit...you have to do better than blame the asshole who started it for a totally uncalled for retaliatory slaughter of kids.

How is that cupcake?

That's a court martial waiting to happen cupcake. Oh unless your Israeli...then all the bat shit TheoCon loons in the US will make excuses all day long and cut you a check for a cool trillion in cash and bombs while they bitch about having to pay for their neighbors vaccinations and talk out of their ass about personal responsibility, freedom and free market magic that will solve all the worlds woes!!!

 

[Dream59]

LOL



That's exactly what the US military and law enforcement is expected to do every fucking day they are on the job asshole.....every fucking day.

You don't spray and pray into innocent civilians....we take the bullet first because we ARE better than that. No positive ID on target? No clean shot to take them out without wasting a truck load of un-armed small children in the process?

Then there is no engagement...end of discussion.



My PH licence plates, Combat Infantryman's Badge and 3800 bucks a month in retirement from the Army that say otherwise.



No...it's not, it's the person who shot the innocent children's fault there Col. Personal Responsibility. 1 or 2..hell even a handful of folks hurt/killed? Collateral damage no problem....shit happens.

From what I'm reading? Bullshit...you have to do better than blame the asshole who started it for a totally uncalled for retaliatory slaughter of kids.



That's a court martial waiting to happen cupcake. Oh unless your Israeli...then all the bat shit TheoCon loons in the US will make excuses all day long and cut you a check for a cool trillion in cash and bombs while they bitch about having to pay for their neighbors vaccinations and talk out of their ass about personal responsibility, freedom and free market magic that will solve all the worlds woes!!!

You are so full of shit. I have been a serviceman and a cop and we have NEVER been train to just stand there and take the bullet. The closest you have ever been to the military is MAYBE driving by a base. The military is trained to make the other bastard die for his country or cause and not you die for yours. There has been many a bomb dropped to kill combatants that has killed innocents. That is what happens when the combatants co-mingle with innocent people. You kill the bastard that is shooting at you. You try not to hit an innocent but sometimes it can not be helped. Now drive by another base and see if you get any smarter, cupcake.

 

[Beco]

Fine example of ignorance! Why is it many of you right wingers can't differentiate between those who are violent fanatics and those who are simply living peacefully in their faith? It's always black and white with you people.

what you mean, "you people"?

 

[BotanyBoy]

You are so full of shit. I have been a serviceman and a cop and we have NEVER been train to just stand there and take the bullet.

Really? You were trained to waste a bunch of un-armed kids in retaliation?? You weren't trained to make every effort to curb collateral damage and harm to innocent civilians?

What nation were you a serviceman/cop in?

The closest you have ever been to the military is MAYBE driving by a base. The military is trained to make the other bastard die for his country or cause and not you die for yours.

Who ever said anything about dying for mine? I had designated marksman that can make 800m head shots in the dark firing from the hip handle those situations.....so does the IDF.

You don't have to waste a bunch of unarmed civilians because someone took a shot at you....because it's simply un-necessary for anything other than bat shit cray. In fact you stand a really good chance of going to prison if you are found to have done something like that.

There has been many a bomb dropped to kill combatants that has killed innocents. That is what happens when the combatants co-mingle with innocent people.

Yup and that's why we made smart bombs, to limit that as much as possible, and we aren't talking about an airstrike gone wrong here asshole. We are talking about ground troops wasting a bunch of kids they had no reason to waste.

You kill the bastard that is shooting at you. You try not to hit an innocent but sometimes it can not be helped.

True...but that's not the fucking case now is it? And there is a limit to the collateral damage that is acceptable and each commander must keep that in constant assessment. I.E. you simply don't level a children's hospital unless the 9th gate of hell has opened from within. 1 asshole shooting at you from there doesn't constitute a 2500lb JDAM into the oncology ward no matter how much you love sucking Israeli cock.

True that line is not always clear...but what is clear is bad form on IDF's behalf...there was no need for that.

Now drive by another base and see if you get any smarter, cupcake.

Nah I got my haircut, blasted through the commissary and hit the Class 6 on Saturday...all stocked up...not any smarter but I'm still not the one here advocating and excusing war crimes am I?

 

[Dream59]

Really? You were trained to waste a bunch of un-armed kids in retaliation?? You weren't trained to make every effort to curb collateral damage and harm to innocent civilians?

What nation were you a serviceman/cop in?



Who ever said anything about dying for mine? I had designated marksman that can make 800m head shots in the dark firing from the hip handle those situations.....so does the IDF.

You don't have to waste a bunch of unarmed civilians because someone took a shot at you....because it's simply un-necessary for anything other than bat shit cray. In fact you stand a really good chance of going to prison if you are found to have done something like that.



Yup and that's why we made smart bombs, to limit that as much as possible, and we aren't talking about an airstrike gone wrong here asshole. We are talking about ground troops wasting a bunch of kids they had no reason to waste.



True...but that's not the fucking case now is it? And there is a limit to the collateral damage that is acceptable and each commander must keep that in constant assessment. I.E. you simply don't level a children's hospital unless the 9th gate of hell has opened from within. 1 asshole shooting at you from there doesn't constitute a 2500lb JDAM into the oncology ward no matter how much you love sucking Israeli cock.

True that line is not always clear...but what is clear is bad form on IDF's behalf...there was no need for that.



Nah I got my haircut, blasted through the commissary and hit the Class 6 on Saturday...all stocked up...not any smarter but I'm still not the one here advocating and excusing war crimes am I?

You prove my point. The military does not allow people in that can not read. I have never advocated war crimes. In places you agree with what I have said after you have told me I was wrong. You can not have it both ways. I do not and have not ever advocated mowing down a bunch of unarmed innocent people. But if I am fired upon but armed combatants that are using civilians as a shield I will do my best to kill the people shooting at me causing the least amount of damage as I can to the civilians. The only class 6 you have ever been in is the six times you had to take logic and you still could not pass it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You prove my point. The military does not allow people in that can not read. I have never advocated war crimes.

You sure do make a lot of excuses for those who commit them....

In places you agree with what I have said after you have told me I was wrong. You can not have it both ways.

Where? Bet you don't answer....quote me.

I do not and have not ever advocated mowing down a bunch of unarmed innocent people.

You make excuses for those that do...what do you call that??

But if I am fired upon but armed combatants that are using civilians as a shield I will do my best to kill the people shooting at me causing the least amount of damage as I can to the civilians.

1) do you think that is the case here? You really think that's what the Israelis did? You REALLY think they were trying to cause the least amount of damage to civilians as possible?

2) As a cop...fired...bigger than shit..take a bullet before gunning down civilians between you and the bad guy every time or you're gonna have a bad time....like prison bad.

3)Military? You might get away with it a little bit...but even then still risky if you decide to go 240B into the crowd instead of M24/21. Go the former and CID finds out about it yer gonna have a bad time....like prison bad.

The only class 6 you have ever been in is the six times you had to take logic and you still could not pass it.

Riiiiiiiiiight.....I'm pretty sure it was the booze station but OK.

 

[pointless]

I was not in "Nam" I was too young. I was in Beirut and had to deal with Hamas. I guess you are either ignorant or too young to know how to read but my comment was that I had had to fight Hamas and Hamas was not in Viet Nam. Speaking of gunning for innocents how many innocent has Hamas killed? You would die of old age before you got to the final tally. You would have to include th PLO of which Hamas is an arm.

ummm, i think you might be thinking of hezbollah there buddy.

 

[renard_ruse]

It feels sort of trippy to ask this, but it seems that some people actually do. Just wondered how many.

Also, a poll means I can find out what people think without trawling through endless pages of illiterate personal insults.

"Israel" is apparently allowed to do anything it wants and that's ok. Its got the media to cover for it, and that's enough for the low information voter.

 

[Skiddles2014]

I would like to see a suicide bomber on an Israeli bus for every child killed.

The media is playing it down. Israel is leveling dozens of buildings every day.

Hopefully other Muslim countries join the fight and start dropping bombs on Israel.

 

[Que]

I would like to see a suicide bomber on an Israeli bus for every child killed.

The media is playing it down. Israel is leveling dozens of buildings every day.

Hopefully other Muslim countries join the fight and start dropping bombs on Israel.

NICE! With your plan maybe we can get the Arabs and the Jews to harbor resentments to last for generations!

You DO realize that the Palestinians penchant for doing EXACTLY that is the reason there IS a wall and that they live in squalor? The Israelis are pretty good at keeping the crazies with your mindset on their side of the wall. If they COULD the WOULD...not just per kid, just because they are committed to killing Israelis.

You could volunteer for the cause. No one would expect a Canadian Tourist. Give it some thought.

 

[zipman]

I would like to see a suicide bomber on an Israeli bus for every child killed.

The media is playing it down. Israel is leveling dozens of buildings every day.

Hopefully other Muslim countries join the fight and start dropping bombs on Israel.

Hamas is telling them not to evacuate when they are warned that an area will be struck.

Hamas is placing missiles in schools and bomb shelters and using the people as human shields.

You're a fucking dumb ass.

 

[Skiddles2014]

Israel is acting like the US.

Bush wanted Saddam so he leveled and destroyed an entire country.

What else are they supposed to do? They have all those cool missiles and nobody but to shoot them at. Maybe if they keep killing innocent people the Palestinians will see the err of their ways and decide to stop fighting back?

Good strategy...

 

[Disgustipated]

WOW...! Is there an ignore button?

You've been here 9 years, dummy.