You only own the ebook till your credit card expires?

[jeninflorida]

Barnes & Noble Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

from the ebooks:-where-'buying'-means-'renting-for-an-indefinite-period' dept
DRM rears its ugly, malformed, malignant, cross-eyed head again. Despite the fact that, as Cory Doctorow so aptly put it, no one has ever purchased anything because it came with DRM, an ever-slimming number of content providers insist on punishing paying customers with idiotic "anti-piracy" schemes.

Combine this "malware" with digital distribution that sticks the end user with an unfavorable license rather than, say, an actual book, and you've got another ready-made disaster. The Consumerist has the details on yet another paying customer dealing with DRM stupidity. It starts off with this physical analogy.

f reader Synimatik had bought a paperback book a few months ago and picked it up to read now, the book’s pages wouldn’t magically glue shut just because the credit card she normally uses at the bookstore has expired.
Obviously, no one would expect a physical book to be subject to the whims of the publisher or the store it was purchased from. A sale is a sale, even if many rights holders would rather it wasn't. But, Barnes & Noble doesn't see it that way. Sure, you can buy an ebook from them, but you'd better keep everything in your profile up to date if you plan on accessing your purchases at some undetermined point in the future.
Yesterday, I tried to download an ebook I paid for, and previously put on my Nook, a few months ago. When I tried, I got an error message stating I could not download the book because the credit card on file had expired. But, I already paid for it. Who cares if the credit card is expired? It has long since been paid for, so the status of the card on file has nothing to do with my ability to download said book. I didn’t see anything in the terms of service about this either, but it’s possible I missed it.

This is just one more reason to either not buy ebooks, or strip the drm off of the ones you purchase so you can you the book you BUY on all your devices without having to purchase multiple copies for no reason and have access to something you already bought when you want it.
Nice work, B&N. Driving another person away from your offerings with your amnesiac point-of-purchase system. No one's purchase should be invalidated once the payment has cleared. Barnes & Noble got its money but its customer is out both money and a book. Does B&N really wish for its customers to root their devices and strip the DRM out of their purchases just so they can enjoy them at their own pace? Shouldn't the company be catering to its customers rather than treating them like thieves who can't be trusted even though they've already paid?

If this was a one-of-a-kind experience, we could chalk it up to "live and learn." But a whole lot of living has gone on and the only lesson anyone's learning is the most efficient way to remove pesky DRM idiocy from their purchased "licenses" in order to turn them into actual, useful goods.

YIKES

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121126/18084721154/barnes-noble-decides-that-purchased-ebooks-are-only-yours-until-your-credit-card-expires.shtml

 

[Sean Renaud]

Go capitalism! Retarded socialist like Jen think you own an experience forever but books aren't for life they are for until the author reclaims them.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Go capitalism! Retarded socialist like Jen think you own an experience forever but books aren't for life they are for until the author reclaims them.

Words are not enough to point out the stupidity of this post....

 

[jeninflorida]

Words are not enough to point out the stupidity of this post....

okay, where do you stand on the subject? When you buy a book...do you "own" it forever? When you buy an Ebook, how long do you feel you should own it?

Does the publisher/retailer have the right to zap it from your tablet?

 

[Tryharder62]

I'm just asking - Is this thier way for them to make you keep an active card on file. I mean if you put an active card on file would you get those previous purchases back? I think that is theft, otherwise. I have a nook and was lead to believe all the books would remain mine. I don't use my nook like I should because I have a bookstore where I can get books really cheap. They have them used.

 

[jeninflorida]

I'm just asking - Is this thier way for them to make you keep an active card on file. I mean if you put an active card on file would you get those previous purchases back? I think that is theft, otherwise. I have a nook and was lead to believe all the books would remain mine. I don't use my nook like I should because I have a bookstore where I can get books really cheap. They have them used.

Not sure about that ... I see your point and could be

 

[oggbashan]

If you download a book from Project Gutenberg or Literotica - you own for ever or as long as your computer is backed up.

If you lose it in an equipment failure, you can download it again - free.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

okay, where do you stand on the subject? When you buy a book...do you "own" it forever? When you buy an Ebook, how long do you feel you should own it?

Does the publisher/retailer have the right to zap it from your tablet?

People auctions off art work that is still under copyright all the time. They have the right to do so even if the artist still has a copyright because of first sale doctrine. To say I can not "own" a ebook, is to say that first sale doctrine is not valid.

If first sale is not valid than all secondary markets within copyright are invalid.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Words are not enough to point out the stupidity of this post....

There is no stupidity in this post which is why you can't find words for it.

okay, where do you stand on the subject? When you buy a book...do you "own" it forever? When you buy an Ebook, how long do you feel you should own it?

Does the publisher/retailer have the right to zap it from your tablet?

When you buy a ticket to Disneyland can you come forever? Of course not, you can come for the fucking day. Why should it be any different for books? Tell me, you know what explain why you, as an author, shouldn't be paid when people use your product.

 

[lovecraft68]

On the other hand, many retailers will not let you repeatedly buy a book and bring it back within 7 days for a full refund.

That is amazon's policy for kindle. People can buy a book, keep it for seven days then get a refund. There are people who go around purchasing books with full intent on returning them and the author loses the sale and money.

Amazon of course does not limit refunds.

as for the CC thing. Its not right, but let me a sk a simple question, how often does your CC expire and you don;t renew? Maybe if you switch banks. This is not something that is going to happen often.

 

[jeninflorida]

On the other hand, many retailers will not let you repeatedly buy a book and bring it back within 7 days for a full refund.

That is amazon's policy for kindle. People can buy a book, keep it for seven days then get a refund. There are people who go around purchasing books with full intent on returning them and the author loses the sale and money.

Amazon of course does not limit refunds.

as for the CC thing. Its not right, but let me a sk a simple question, how often does your CC expire and you don;t renew? Maybe if you switch banks. This is not something that is going to happen often.

So true! Just found it interesting with the "rights" are different for paper book vs ebook.

 

[lovecraft68]

There is no stupidity in this post which is why you can't find words for it.



When you buy a ticket to Disneyland can you come forever? Of course not, you can come for the fucking day. Why should it be any different for books? Tell me, you know what explain why you, as an author, shouldn't be paid when people use your product.

But you can own a book forever. I've had the same Ratty copy of the Exorcist for close to 25 years.

If you purchase anything, unless it is a specific rental agreement, then you should own it forever.

When you go to Disney you are getting an x-day pass, when those days are over you leave, you're not purchasing Disney, just renting it.

When you make an actual product purchase its yours until you break it, give it away, lose it or whatever, but the store cannot come back and take it from you

 

[Sean Renaud]

But you can own a book forever. I've had the same Ratty copy of the Exorcist for close to 25 years.

If you purchase anything, unless it is a specific rental agreement, then you should own it forever.

When you go to Disney you are getting an x-day pass, when those days are over you leave, you're not purchasing Disney, just renting it.

When you make an actual product purchase its yours until you break it, give it away, lose it or whatever, but the store cannot come back and take it from you

Why should you own it forever? What law is there for this? The store isn't coming back and taking it mind you, they are simply coming up with a more efficient model where they only lease it to you for a set period of time.

 

[oggbashan]

A few days ago I bought an old book of local history.

It was a new, improved edition of 1825. It could benefit from rebinding but is complete with all the plates some of which were from engravings then 200 years old.

I own it outright.

I have an 18th Century book about London that belonged to my great-grandfather who died in 1880.

The oldest book I have ever owned was a 16th Century Bible, unfortunately missing most of Genesis. I sold it for a profit.

The oldest document I have owned was dated 1434. It was a tiny slip of parchment recording a lease for one year of a local farm now unidentifiable. I sold that too.

How many e-books will your descendants own? Your license expires on your death.

My descendants can acquire my library of printed books and pass some on to their children, and children's children.

 

[lovecraft68]

Why should you own it forever? What law is there for this? The store isn't coming back and taking it mind you, they are simply coming up with a more efficient model where they only lease it to you for a set period of time.

But where this gets me, is an e-book costs Nook nothing, like Amazon a large portion of their library is stuff from indy authors like myself. B&N did not pay for this book, they provide the platform to sell it and get a cut for doing so.

Most of these things are pretty cheap purchases as well, 2.99 up... are they really that greedy, that they want to make you spend $2.99 every 2 years if you want to keep the book?

Whatever the opinions are one way or another, this just smacks of penny pinching sneakiness and bad business to me in this case.

 

[warrior queen]

Why not use your library?
My library lends me ebooks for free. I get to keep them for 3 weeks, then they automatically delete, but I can re-lend them at any time for free again.
I haven't paid for an ebook in ages!

 

[jeninflorida]

A few days ago I bought an old book of local history.

It was a new, improved edition of 1825. It could benefit from rebinding but is complete with all the plates some of which were from engravings then 200 years old.

I own it outright.

I have an 18th Century book about London that belonged to my great-grandfather who died in 1880.

The oldest book I have ever owned was a 16th Century Bible, unfortunately missing most of Genesis. I sold it for a profit.

The oldest document I have owned was dated 1434. It was a tiny slip of parchment recording a lease for one year of a local farm now unidentifiable. I sold that too.

How many e-books will your descendants own? Your license expires on your death.

My descendants can acquire my library of printed books and pass some on to their children, and children's children.

well said!

 

[Sean Renaud]

But where this gets me, is an e-book costs Nook nothing, like Amazon a large portion of their library is stuff from indy authors like myself. B&N did not pay for this book, they provide the platform to sell it and get a cut for doing so.

Most of these things are pretty cheap purchases as well, 2.99 up... are they really that greedy, that they want to make you spend $2.99 every 2 years if you want to keep the book?

Whatever the opinions are one way or another, this just smacks of penny pinching sneakiness and bad business to me in this case.

What it costs them isn't important. What they can make in profits is. It's amazing how ignorant people become of capitalism when it suits them.

 

[Liar]

okay, where do you stand on the subject? When you buy a book...do you "own" it forever? When you buy an Ebook, how long do you feel you should own it?

Does the publisher/retailer have the right to zap it from your tablet?

If the EULA says so. Know what you buy before you click that final button.

 

[oggbashan]

What it costs them isn't important. What they can make in profits is. It's amazing how ignorant people become of capitalism when it suits them.

A book is a product like most others. There is a cost to producing it and hopefully a profit to be made from selling it.

A printed book can last for hundreds of years if looked after. If it is never sold during that time, just passed down through a family, there are no profits to be made.

If a secondhand book is sold, bought and re-sold, someone hopes to make a profit each time but there are limits. A cheap paperback will get worn, tatty and eventually disintegrate and be unsalable even at 1 cent.

An e-book has built in obsolescence. Even if the licence wasn't for a limited period, it would become useless as the platforms on which it is read are 'improved' or replaced. There are profits to be made from the platforms, and from re-licensing the e-books for the newer technology.

If you use a computer for wordprocessing and little else, what benefits have you seen from the change from DOS 3 and Wordperfect through the various versions of Windows and Word? Technically you could print a letter or a thesis on DOS 3 and Wordperfect but we have been sold expensive upgrades for features we don't really need. (and bought 'better' computers to run the new features)

E-books are the way to get the public to spend more money on the written word. Soon there will be expensive interactive e-books that will let you become part of the profusely illustrated story. Your name will replace the hero/heroine. Your picture will animate the story...

...and you will pay again and again for your e-book.

 

[phrodeau]

Isn't there a way to connect an e-book device to a printer?

 

[blobfish]

A few days ago I bought an old book of local history.

It was a new, improved edition of 1825. It could benefit from rebinding but is complete with all the plates some of which were from engravings then 200 years old.

I own it outright.

I have an 18th Century book about London that belonged to my great-grandfather who died in 1880.

The oldest book I have ever owned was a 16th Century Bible, unfortunately missing most of Genesis. I sold it for a profit.

The oldest document I have owned was dated 1434. It was a tiny slip of parchment recording a lease for one year of a local farm now unidentifiable. I sold that too.

How many e-books will your descendants own? Your license expires on your death.

My descendants can acquire my library of printed books and pass some on to their children, and children's children.

Yeah, I don't expect that I'll ever make the switch. A bound, printed book is just tangible.

 

[jeninflorida]

Isn't there a way to connect an e-book device to a printer?

Good question but I do not think so. At least for the Nook tablet.

 

[Sean Renaud]

A book is a product like most others. There is a cost to producing it and hopefully a profit to be made from selling it.

A printed book can last for hundreds of years if looked after. If it is never sold during that time, just passed down through a family, there are no profits to be made.

If a secondhand book is sold, bought and re-sold, someone hopes to make a profit each time but there are limits. A cheap paperback will get worn, tatty and eventually disintegrate and be unsalable even at 1 cent.

An e-book has built in obsolescence. Even if the licence wasn't for a limited period, it would become useless as the platforms on which it is read are 'improved' or replaced. There are profits to be made from the platforms, and from re-licensing the e-books for the newer technology.

If you use a computer for wordprocessing and little else, what benefits have you seen from the change from DOS 3 and Wordperfect through the various versions of Windows and Word? Technically you could print a letter or a thesis on DOS 3 and Wordperfect but we have been sold expensive upgrades for features we don't really need. (and bought 'better' computers to run the new features)

E-books are the way to get the public to spend more money on the written word. Soon there will be expensive interactive e-books that will let you become part of the profusely illustrated story. Your name will replace the hero/heroine. Your picture will animate the story...

...and you will pay again and again for your e-book.

This all boils down to so?

As a capitalist my goal is to make as much money with as little effort as possible. The fact that you used to be able to store my work forever and now you have to pay me every couple of years is a win for me.

 

[doctor_insanus]

Fuck DRM. Use Calibre.