Yale suspends Bush's Fraternity

[lovecraft68]

I wasn’t interested in this, but as the thread kept returning, I finally read the original article. Now that I have, I’m surprised so much talk was expended on class. Had I read it on my own, the class angle would have barely registered. The article is about misogyny young women face, and it’s pretty deluded to think it’s limited to spoiled rich boys.

So they chanted obscenities against women and rated slu—sorry, female freshmen, on attractiveness. Totally unheard of in any other social stratum, right?

Instead of pretending it’s “those fuckers” who somehow perversely deviate from the respect for women everyone else so obviously holds, it's more interesting to me to note they barely did more than repeated a cultural message that’s practically ubiquitous.

And should not the great future leaders of this country be the ones to break this? No they are the ones that keep it going. The expression "The boys Club" did not start in the inner city schools it started in the ivy league schools.

Not to justify Bush in anyway but back when he attended Yale society was different it was the propaganda days of "Wive's handbooks" that spoke of how to take care of your man. Women 's place in society has come along way since then. A lot of them make more than there husbands now (mine does)

The times have changed but these assholes have not changed their "mantra." nor will they. a bitch slap and a "will you idiots be a little smarter next time?" and right back. Boils down to are you sorry? or our you sorry you got caught? We know which they are sorry about.

As for the "slut rating" well you know typical male behavior and don;t think the sororities or girls in general don;t have their version of it. I think it;s funny that in general college is supposed to better you and in more ways than education but I wonder sometimes.

Honestly, with the exception of the redneck population of the US I see a lot less chauvinism in the middle to lower class than I do in the upper class.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm willing to bet you've never laid your little peepers on "the upper class." Sorry, but you are sooo full of crap--in sooo many ways.

 

[xssve]

I wasn’t interested in this, but as the thread kept returning, I finally read the original article. Now that I have, I’m surprised so much talk was expended on class. Had I read it on my own, the class angle would have barely registered. The article is about misogyny young women face, and it’s pretty deluded to think it’s limited to spoiled rich boys.

So they chanted obscenities against women and rated slu—sorry, female freshmen, on attractiveness. Totally unheard of in any other social stratum, right?

Instead of pretending it’s “those fuckers” who somehow perversely deviate from the respect for women everyone else so obviously holds, it's more interesting to me to note they barely did more than repeated a cultural message that’s practically ubiquitous.

Pretty much what I thought too, untill people started coming out of left field to attack me for casting aspersions on the Fraternity system - I guess, that's what it seems like anyway - that's kind of what made the whole thing a lot more interesting to me - suddenly.

Clearly, some sort of loyalty thing is instilled here, in other cases you might recall, people have been killed, sexually assaulted, etc." Hazing" is defended as some sort of "character building" exercise, I'm totally curious now as just what kind of "character" they're trying to instill, and how deep it goes.

'Course, when it come to 71plt, he's just obsessed with me apparently.

 

[xssve]

And it's interesting because while you can say this particular incident is probably not much different than what goes in the locker room of you average High School football team, most of those guys go on to sell used cars, not getting tapped for management by every high dollar financial firm in the country.

It's disturbing to me if they're trained to "follow orders", however stupid - forget about the sexist component for a moment, the purpose of citing the Millgram experiment is, it shows how easy it can be to get people to do things for the approval of authority that they're conscience might otherwise balk at.

In short, where do you find people that can lay off 10,000 people just so they can pad out their quarterly figures? Where do you get guys like at Enron, urging their employees to keep buying stock, while they're busy funneling as much value as they can off to their Cayman accounts before the whole fucking ship goes belly up? I think I know now.

Seems to me, there's enough people like that around without making more of 'em.

 

[Verdad]

Yeah, what Verdad said.

I thought you made all good points too.

In short, where do you find people that can lay off 10,000 people just so they can pad out their quarterly figures? Where do you get guys like at Enron, urging their employees to keep buying stock, while they're busy funneling as much value as they can off to their Cayman accounts before the whole fucking ship goes belly up? I think I know now.

There are good reasons to be angry. I wonder, in fact, if the rapture business says something about it too. I mean, apart from the obvious stupidity angle, I kind of wondered what made those people so eager to believe it. Don't these apocalyptic movements take off when reality is felt to be intolerable? Kind of like, as one journalist put it, a stupid person's way of expressing economic pain.

But maybe not. They seem to occur too often for that to make sense quite so neatly. Dunno.

 

[xssve]

Magical thinking tends to come out of the closet in times of stress, it offers the illusion of certainty when things are uncertain - it's also when people cling to authority, or conversely, look for a "goat" to sacrifice - in anthropology, they call that "the receptacle of evil". We also go into centripetal mode in times of stress of when confronted with a threat, real or imagined.

NAZI German is a good example, under severe social/economic stress, people followed a semi-mystical demagogue who convinced everyone he had the solutions, and offered a goat to sacrifice; and that worked - for a little while.

 

[xssve]

And as long as people fall for it, somebody is going to try it, it's too goddamn convenient - and it will work until everyone realizes you can't really ever kill the devil - that slaying me, for instance, socially, metaphorically, or otherwise, isn't gonna solve your problems: the devil is still there, grinning at you in the mirror.

 

[xssve]

So yeah, I'm not as forgiving as the last guy - he said: "lord forgive them, for they know not what they do" - you had enough time to know what you're doing by now, ain't no redeemer this time around, save yourselves.

 

[lovecraft68]

Was going to let this whole thread go away in my mind and saw this in a post by Blunt Trauma over on the GB and figured I would borrow it.

here is the charter for the "boys club" the Yale and other elitist frat boys. This is the ideal woman to them and always has been.

"Have dinner ready. Plan ahead, even the night before, to have a delicious meal, on time. This is a way of letting him know that you have been thinking about him and are concerned about his needs. Most men are hungry when they come home and the prospect of a good meal are part of the warm welcome needed.
Prepare yourself. Take 15 minutes to rest so that you'll be refreshed when he arrives. Touch up your makeup, put a ribbon in your hair and be fresh-looking. He has just been with a lot of work-weary people. Be a little gay and a little more interesting. His boring day may need a lift.
Clear away the clutter. Make one last trip through the main part of the home just before your husband arrives, gather up schoolbooks, toys, paper, etc. Then run a dust cloth over the tables. Your husband will feel he has reached a haven of rest and order, and it will give you a lift, too.
Prepare the children. Take a few minutes to wash the children's hands and faces (if they are small), comb their hair, and if necessary change their clothes. They are little treasures and he would like to see them playing the part.
Minimize all noise. At the time of his arrival, eliminate all noise of the washer, dryer, dishwasher, or vacuum. Try to encourage the children to be quiet. Be happy to see him. Greet him with a warm smile and be glad he is home.

Make him comfortable. Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or suggest he lie down in the bedroom.
Have a cool or warm drink ready for him.
Arrange his pillow and offer to take off his shoes.
Speak in a low, soft, soothing and pleasant voice. Allow him to relax and unwind.
Listen to him. You may have a dozen things to tell him, but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first.
Make the evening his. Never complain if he does not take you out to dinner or to other places of entertainment. Instead, try to understand his world of strain and pressure, his need to be home and relax.

Some don'ts:
Don't greet him with problems or complaints.
Don't complain if he is late for dinner. Count this as minor compared with what he might have gone through that day.

The Goal: Try to make your home a place of peace and order where your husband can renew himself in body and spirit. "

They leave out the part that they are also supposed to let hubby fuck everything in site and it's okay. Because their husband "loves" them but "fucks" the whores.

My wife has a copy of this "wives handbook" somewhere in the basement, it was her grandmothers. A few years back she read most of it to my daughters. Didn't let them read it she read it out loud so you can really get a good feel of how ridiculous this shit is.

The guys that got caught doing this dumb shit were raised bu families who still believe it. Although in their defense the elite wives of Mr knuckle Dragger are now stepping out and having some fun themselves. Hilarious when hubby finds out and the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[sr71plt]

You have a source citation for that being in some real charter or something?

Otherwise, you are just blowing the same old tedious, prejudice, sweeping generalization steam--and haven't gotten at all what Penn Lady and others have posed to this thread.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm willing to bet you've never laid your little peepers on "the upper class." Sorry, but you are sooo full of crap--in sooo many ways.

I know plenty of upper class people some very snotty the exact type I am talking about and others that are pretty grounded. All came down to how the parents raised them. My best friend's father owns three businesses and is worth millions. My friends first job was cleaning the bathrooms in the office building. His first car a 1980 Toyota Celica (got his license in 87 so not a new car) his father made him work for what he had and because of that he is now running the business and fully appreciates what he has.

Lets go get a list of what the kids in that frat are driving aren't going to be no clunkers in that parking lot baby!

And oh who knows all how do you know what class I am even in? Just because I came from shit does not mean that is what I have today. Then again maybe I'm still white trash who knows? You never will, you will conjure your own opinions anyways.

It is comical how intelligent you claim to be but so easily fall into believing the sterotype of myself I put out there. How easily you continue to bite on every high school jibe I toss your way. Have you ever thought that all my little barbs and very over the top responses and chip on my shoulder is just a way to get people's goat?

Nope wouldn't occur to you because you would be to smart to be manipulated wouldn't you? Please, I am as big of a troll as JBJ who everyone knows is just around to make some noise when he's bored or to get a kick out of yanking people's chains.

I have never expressed an opinion on here that I don't believe but the way I do it is deliberately contrived to get you people in defensive mode.

I come across as an angst ridden bitter "poor black child" who is jealous and hates rich people and etc...

I make the remark about you people living in your happy little boxes and oh does the hair come up on end! Sweet sub Sarrah, Penn lady (sorry hon, I do really like you but you bit on it big time) giving me the "You don't know me!" oh classic!!

fact is the nerve that I hit is everyone thinks they are a tragic tale. The people who should be grateful to have nice normal upbringings and decent lives suddenly want to be poor black children as well!

They want to say oh Lovecraft you don't think I had it tough too? You don't think I know what it's like? Maybe you do maybe you don't point is: who gives a fuck? I threw out an inflammatory comment and oh how the best and brightest bite down and hard!

To be honest you my friend are the biggest dink on here. The most arrogant the one who just thinks he is the shit. Flew a plane 40 years ago? Good for you! Nice accomplishment a unique experience I am sure and I am not being sarcastic. But that was forty years ago. Your claim to fame now is a bunch of gay porn stories and your aura of omniscient in the field of writing. Your a dried up retired old fart who is so afraid of his own insignificance he has to constantly remind himself and others how successful you think you are. Greatness when self proclaimed truly is not greatness now is it sweetie?

I have never put out one remark on here that was not made to illicit a proscribed response (short of the just plain old silly threads) Hell want to know a secret? I don't really give a shit about the non consent category!

It's not my thing I will never read it. I did have a sister that was raped and do have a bit of a hatred for the genre but don't give two shits if anyone else likes it or not or reads it or writes it just don;t ever expect me to say I think there is nothing wrong with it because it does glorify hurting women and encourages that behavior.

But at the end of the day that is my simple opinion but if I just made a quick point and let it drop how could I have any fun? How could I get all you people getting all jerked off defending the authors rights to write whatever crap they want to write. Hilarious that if asked off the record most of you would admit your not a fan of those stories but wouldn't want to publicly put down those who write them. That would take some sticking to ideals wouldn't want that around.

JBJ is a troll? JB is fucking hilarious! and I say that having gotten jerked off at him several times but he shoots straight and would be a hell of a guy to sit around and get drunk and listen to his I'm sure endless bullshit. A hell of a better conversationalist than you would be you over rated drip.

Hmmm an excerpt from a conversation with SR71pilot:

"Well enough about me, what about you? what do you think about me? Oh by the way have you read the latest Habu novel? Of sorry it was your turn to talk? wait your quiet! You must want me to tell you about it! Okay I just happen to have my manuscript right here!!

Oh I kill me! Some one should I know is the next remark forth coming from your endless wit.

Oh whatever, bottom line is you guys take shit way to seriously this is the net where everyone creates a cyber persona of how they want to be perceived. The average person really wants to be received well and liked. It's human nature. Guys (or hell maybe just maybe I am not even a guy) like me or JBJ just really do not care what people think. Hell you people think I'm a jerk or at the least a whack job but I get a kick out it!

In closing all i will say is to agree with "X" i really do not know why the knee jerk reaction is to defend these kids who have had there entire lives handed to them and heaven forbid got caught being the wienies they really are. No one made this story up, they got caught they will take the fall people will think poorly of them and they will deserve it. Big deal their family still has enough money to buy them their career it's okay. Not only that but hell maybe a couple of these kids might sit back and say "You know now that I hear it like this maybe this is wrong" who knows maybe it will be a wake up call for a couple of the decent kids there.

Well anyway thanks for playing especially you SR71 you make my life interesting.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

That's a paraphrase of "The good wife's guide," published in a 1955 copy of Housekeeping Monthly. Click on the picture at the bottom of the page for the original.

http://motifmagazine.wordpress.com/2011/01/31/1950s-housewife-rules/

I must have missed the equivalence between 1950s middle class gender idealism and today's elite colleges.

 

[sr71plt]

I must have missed the equivalence between 1950s middle class gender idealism and today's elite colleges.

There's a whole lot of "gone missing" on this thread.

 

[lovecraft68]

That's a paraphrase of "The good wife's guide," published in a 1955 copy of Housekeeping Monthly. Click on the picture at the bottom of the page for the original.

http://motifmagazine.wordpress.com/2011/01/31/1950s-housewife-rules/

I must have missed the equivalence between 1950s middle class gender idealism and today's elite colleges.

Well first off read my last post but there is a correlation. Certain types of men still want this ideal. The kind that are taught to demean women.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

Well first off read my last post but there is a correlation.

No, that was me saying your argument makes no sense.

 

[trysail]

Brown University Ordered to Disclose Fundraising Records in Rape Lawsuit
By Don Jeffrey
October 10, 2011


Brown University was ordered by a federal judge to produce fundraising documents from an alumnus whose daughter accused a fellow student of rape.

U.S. District Judge John McConnell in Providence, Rhode Island, granted a request by William McCormick III, who was accused of rape in a school internal investigation, and his parents to compel the university to produce the records of Richard Dresdale, the father of the alleged victim, within 14 days, according to an order dated Oct. 7.

The McCormicks sued Brown, the student who said she was raped, and her father in October 2009, claiming that the university falsely accused McCormick of sexual assault. In an amended complaint filed in December 2009, the McCormicks said that the Dresdales had libeled their son and caused him to be expelled from the college.

Dresdale is “an alumnus of Brown and has raised very substantial sums of money for Brown,” the McCormicks said in the complaint.

The plaintiffs sought information on Dresdale’s fundraising activities for Brown from January 2000 through the present. Brown, located in Providence, argued in court papers that Dresdale, not the university, should be the source of the information.

Marisa Quinn, a spokeswoman for Brown, didn’t immediately respond to a phone message seeking comment on the order. Brown is closed today for the Columbus Day holiday.

McCormick, whose family lives in Waukesha, Wisconsin, was a nationally ranked wrestler in high school, according to court papers. He was awarded a scholarship to Brown, enrolled in September 2006 and was sent home two weeks later, court records show. A court filing states that he agreed to give up his education and scholarship “under duress and under the implied threat of false criminal rape charges.”

No criminal complaint was filed in the alleged incident.

The case is McCormick v. Dresdale, 09-00474, U.S. District Court, District of Rhode Island (Providence).