WT: Are BDSM folk more honest or open minded than non-BDSM folk?

[FungiUg]

Here it is, the first of our weekly topics for discussion.

I decided to pick something a little conentious -- if we can get a raging argument with the kiddies throwing in their toys and stomping off to play with themselves, then all the better!

So... are BDSM people more honest? Or more open minded? Are we an "improvement" over the non-BDSM masses? Have we found a "better way of life"? Is the world a better place because we are beating it into shape?

From my own experience, BDSM people are just as human as non-BDSM people. We are no better (and thankfully no worse). We are just as prone to abuse, lying, back-stabbing, petty jealousies, fighting, etc...

That doesn't make BDSM a bad thing. If we WERE more prone to abuse, then perhaps that could be argued. But I have yet to see any experience to show that we are. But I certainly haven't seen any evidence to show that we are more honest.

And yet, one of the things I often hear is either an implication or an outright statement that somehow we ARE superior to non-BDSM practitioners. I don't see it myself, but perhaps you can show me the error of my ways?

Thoughts, opinions, ideas...

 

[FungiUg]

Copied from the weekly topic thread:

Are BDSM folk more honest or open minded than non-BDSM folk?

No. We're lying, cheating, get in your pants the first moment we can scumbags like everyone else.

 

[Marquis]

I would have to say BDSM people are more honest when we are being BDSM people.

I think too often we have to fake who we are to try and fit into a less taboo image of relations or sexuality, and that's where lying begins.

 

[sunfox]

Of course we're no better, no more honest, no more anything than anyone else. The fact that we have a taste for the unusual doesn't instantly make us become perfect images of the imperfect people we were before BDSM.

I have my prejudices, just like everyone does, and I'll freely admit that I don't always tell the complete truth. Hell, sometimes I'm not even in the same zip code as the truth. But those are flaws I've always had, and probably always will have.. the relationship I have with C has very little to do with that as a whole.

To only take as an example what I see on the board.. I'd have to say that it's abundantly obvious that we have tantrums, are petty, are jealous, get angry, and are closeminded... just like everyone else who isn't into BDSM in whatever flavor you choose to lable yourself as.

Not to say we're all like that, or to point a finger at anyone in particular. Just sayin'.

 

[FungiUg]

I would have to say BDSM people are more honest when we are being BDSM people.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this comment. So you're saying if I were in a situation where I was socialising (say) with other BDSM people, I would be more honest? I have certainly been more frank when socialising with other BDSM people. But why honest?

 

[AngelicAssassin]

boy King checking in

Hell, sometimes I'm not even in the same zip code as the truth.

Damn darlin', what part of the castle are you in today? Oh, wait. Silly question. The dungeon, where else.

 

[shaymless]

Honest as in truthful to others? Or honest as in truer to ourselves?

For the former, we're just like any other group of people. For the latter...I used to have this idea that we were, but that's arrogance. For me to believe because *I* practice an alternative lifestyle and it works for me and others do not, that I'm somehow truer to myself is ...well, it's just plain wrong.

I *do* believe that my own experience has made me more open-minded. I don't think my way works or is the right way. It's just what's right for me. I don't always find that from 'nilla people. It's not always found in the lifestyle, either, but it tends to be more prevalent than not.

shay

 

[Marquis]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this comment. So you're saying if I were in a situation where I was socialising (say) with other BDSM people, I would be more honest? I have certainly been more frank when socialising with other BDSM people. But why honest?

I'm not sure if I understand the difference between frank and honest as you use them here. Do you mean frank as in forward and honest as in non-deceptive?

I have always felt deceptive when I've been with vanilla women because I know they don't want to hear what's REALLY on my mind. Conversely, I am totally honest with a submissive mate, because I want them to know exactly what I want, and just how to please me.

 

[redelicious]

I don't think people into bdsm are any more or less honest or open minded then people into, say, bird watching. I will say that I personally am probably more open minded now than I was before I started exploring bdsm and my sexuality in general. However my open mindedness is pretty relative, there will always be some things that are going to be harder for me to get my mind around, but that's just me.

I think people in healthy successful relationships (bdsm or otherwise) probably either are by nature very honest people or work very hard at it.

 

[FungiUg]

I'm not sure if I understand the difference between frank and honest as you use them here. Do you mean frank as in forward and honest as in non-deceptive?

Yeah, pretty much.

As an example, we were in a cafe meeting a woman I have been chatting to for ages who's just moved into the city we live in. And we had some very frank discussions about sexuality, BDSM, etc, etc. Things I would never normally talk to anyone (other than my partner) about, let alone on a first meeting. So yeah, with other BDSM folk, I am certainly more frank.

But more honest? I have to watch what I say very carefully, because it would be oh so easy to promise something I couldn't deliver. Mostly I try to be honest where I can (which is one reason why I'm in a semi-open relationship.) But I still fall down. Irrespective of whether the person I am with is into BDSM or not.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

... or work very hard at it.

Nailed that one sister.

 

[FungiUg]

I will say that I personally am probably more open minded now than I was before I started exploring bdsm and my sexuality in general.

That's probably true for me also -- although I was already on that journey of becoming more open minded about my sexuality and others' sexuality before I got into BDSM. In fact, I suspect I would never had been able to make that leap of self-acceptance had I not been.

At the same time, I expected that same open mindedness I had begun to develop from other people in BDSM circles. And I was bitterly disappointed, more than once. So it doesn't appear to be a general rule.

Having said that, I ran into exactly the same thing with the gay circles. I would expect gay people to be more understanding and non-judgemental of others, since they get such a hard time and have to learn the hard way the importance of those qualities. But from experience, they are just as judgemental and close minded as anyone else.

I guess I was expecting, having gone through all of that hard self-evaluation stuff and learning about myself to discover other people also into this would be at the same point. Sadly, it seems that's not generally true.

 

[Xelebes]

Nope.

 

[Aeroil]

the theory towards "yes they are" would be that in the BDSM community there are definately a wide range of oddities, and if you don't accept em you get rejected, so you do tend to be more openminded if you're in here. Of course that's just theory, like the ether, it mat just be nonsense (lets see if you get that one Xelebes )

 

[babiesmiles]

That's probably true for me also -- although I was already on that journey of becoming more open minded about my sexuality and others' sexuality before I got into BDSM. In fact, I suspect I would never had been able to make that leap of self-acceptance had I not been.

.

I couldn't have express it better for myself as well .

I try to be true with myself about where my sexuality is carrying me , I'm really trying to understand who really is in depth the "ugly mug " ( pun intended ) I see every morning in the mirror when I brush my teeth.

But one thing I can say for sure , the more I understand myself with an open mind , without prejudices , the more I manage to understand others . Not only in a BDSM or generally sexual way but even in other fields eg. political ,social , about work matters ..et cetera ..

I'm more tolerant , more understanding and I can consider others' points of view about daily things trying to put myself in their clothes .

So yes this journey is making myself if not a better person surely an easier person to deal with .

Hope there was something understandable in this lil rambling

 

[WriterDom]

I think there is a lot of dishonesty. If you are Grand Master Attila in your spare time while having a wife baking cookies at home who is in the dark about your masterhood, your life is fundamentally dishonest.

Between bdsm couples, there is probably more honesty and openness, in general, not to say it doesn't exist between the non.

I think you do become more open minded and tolerant of others. That pendulum tends to swing too far sometimes, and I get the feeling that an attitude of "anything goes" is acceptable to some. There are limits in society.

 

[jdmct]

open or open minded

Maybe more open minded............certainly more open

 

[YinandYang]

That's probably true for me also -- although I was already on that journey of becoming more open minded about my sexuality and others' sexuality before I got into BDSM. In fact, I suspect I would never had been able to make that leap of self-acceptance had I not been.

This is exactly how I feel. I have always been open minded, taught to be open minded should I say. I think it helped immensely that meeting someone who was as equally open minded as myself, kind of paved the way for the flood gates to open. I have never fallen into the mainstream way of life, from my dress sense to my taste in music I have always gone for the obscure or eccentric way. Thats just who I am. BDSM is something that was in me for a long time. I never really had to fight that feeling, it felt more of a celebration when I started to realise what it was all about.

 

[FungiUg]

Thare limits in society.

I agree with everything you wrote, but especially this point. Open mindedness does need to have limits. Rape, abuse, cannibalism all spring to mind.

 

[Quint]

I agree with everything you wrote, but especially this point. Open mindedness does need to have limits. Rape, abuse, cannibalism all spring to mind.

Does cannibalism spring to mind for you often?

Having met very few BDSM-inclined people in real life, my perception is unfortunately largely limited to this board...and when so many threads on "do I stay with my vanilla spouse or go to my beloved Master?" themes spring up, questions of "are we any better?" kind of lose their meaning to me. Hell, T and I began in deception and cheating. I'm the same person I was when I didn't know I wasn't nilla. (How's THAT for a nega-negative!)

Honesty is also an interesting point the way Marquis describes it. I'm more likely to be honest with T about my needs because I know he has the desire and vested interest in fulfilling them; I can see how it would be difficult for someone to share something this personal with someone who they aren't sure really cares about those needs or is unwilling or incapable of meeting them. I'm thinking about the responsibility in a D/s relationship to be truthful...but immediately thinking that honesty is a necessity regardless of the flavor of relationship. Just more likely to be explicitly expressed in our flavor. Don't know too many nilla partners who have permission to read their partner's email, for example. (Does that mean there is more honesty, or just less privacy?)

But open-minded...again, where does that begin? I'm not open-minded because I'm kinky, I'm open-minded because I'm open-minded. Granted, I feel comfortable at fetish parties in ways that I will never feel comfortable in traditional parties, so I guess I do expect that open-mindedness and acceptance to be a stronger force. Hmmmmmmmm.

 

[oddity83]

The people that have dealt with on lit, porn shops and other sites on average seem to be more opened minded of the world.

 

[TaintedB]

Athough I see someone got his sarcasm in early perhaps in hopes of deflating opposing positions (rolls eyes considerably upward in thread), I must opine that bdsm folk are most definitely not more honest, in my experience, which is rather extensive. The posters in this group might be an exception, hard to say yet as I barely know most of you. But all my past experience says that as a whole group, they are not. Wish I could at least say they were a representative cross-section, but I can't. Wish I could limit this belief to online bdsmer's but I can't.

Openminded? Only about bdsm in my experience. Not other kinks, unless they are closely related to bdsm, and about matters non-sexual (politics, religion, etc.) they are a fairly representative cross-section of the country and cultural set they are a part of. Once again this group of posters might be an exception--I have formed no firm opinion at this time.

 

[Brinnie]

from the outside looking in, I dont see any difference

 

[geronimo_appleby]

Here it is, the first of our weekly topics for discussion.

I decided to pick something a little conentious -- if we can get a raging argument with the kiddies throwing in their toys and stomping off to play with themselves, then all the better!

So... are BDSM people more honest? Or more open minded? Are we an "improvement" over the non-BDSM masses? Have we found a "better way of life"? Is the world a better place because we are beating it into shape?

From my own experience, BDSM people are just as human as non-BDSM people. We are no better (and thankfully no worse). We are just as prone to abuse, lying, back-stabbing, petty jealousies, fighting, etc...

That doesn't make BDSM a bad thing. If we WERE more prone to abuse, then perhaps that could be argued. But I have yet to see any experience to show that we are. But I certainly haven't seen any evidence to show that we are more honest.

And yet, one of the things I often hear is either an implication or an outright statement that somehow we ARE superior to non-BDSM practitioners. I don't see it myself, but perhaps you can show me the error of my ways?

Thoughts, opinions, ideas...

Each to his/her own. I don't see how a person's sexuality or preferences has much bearing upon their personal traits.
There are (probably) just as many immoral, ill mannered, bigotted people on both sides of the coin.
Live and let live

 

[FungiUg]

Does cannibalism spring to mind for you often?

What can I say? I'm a biter!

Actually, it sprang to mind because I remembered the consensual cannibalism case that came up in Germany a couple of years ago. So even though it was consensual, it was still unacceptable.