Writing and responsibility

[dr_mabeuse]

I feel sorry for anyone who attempts to learn how to make love from reading Lit stories. While some authors are dedicated to writing realism, for the most part pornography is sexual fantasy, and the reader who expects earth-shaking simultaneous Lit-style orgasms everytime they make love; effortless, greaseless anal sex as happens in Lit stories; happy and guilt-free incest; people hung from their wrists for hours of erotic whipping; and/or women who really want to be forced into sex when they say "no" is in for a whole shitload of rude surprises.

What we aim for is poetic plausibility, not realism. If we wanted realism we'd be journalists and not fiction writers.

 

[impressive]

What we aim for is poetic plausibility, not realism. If we wanted realism we'd be journalists and not fiction writers.

I kinda think the journalists go for the poetic plausibility, too.

 

[CharleyH]

I feel sorry for anyone who attempts to learn how to make love from reading Lit stories. While some authors are dedicated to writing realism, for the most part pornography is sexual fantasy, and the reader who expects earth-shaking simultaneous Lit-style orgasms everytime they make love; effortless, greaseless anal sex as happens in Lit stories; happy and guilt-free incest; people hung from their wrists for hours of erotic whipping; and/or women who really want to be forced into sex when they say "no" is in for a whole shitload of rude surprises.

What we aim for is poetic plausibility, not realism. If we wanted realism we'd be journalists and not fiction writers.

LOL - sorry - this is so quotable, Doc, that I - LOL - needed to quote it again!

 

[Matadore]

Enequal comparison

3113:

It's like me suing a tobacco company because I chose to smoke, knowing the risks.

Not meaning to be too disagreeable because your writing and expressive abilities are more honed than mine, but despite what some popular opinions are as to what constitutes an addiction, I think that comparing a physical dependance on a chemical substance with the psychosocial habituation that some individuals develop for reading sexually stimulating material is a logic fault.

Although the "addiction" to sexual behavior does seem to have its connections to brain chemistry, to equate the billions of dollars devoted to encouraging healthy young and impressionable people to engage in one of the most addictive substance abuse habits known to exist with the content of the expression of erotic fiction is a stretch that may be considered irresponsible.

Certainly no disrespect intended here, just an attempt to clarify further your strong and thoughtful statement.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I won't write what disgusts me. If it turns me on, I will write it. And that's my standard.
I am aware that what I think of as acceptable doesn't always sit so well with some unsuspecting readers...
I almost always write safe sex, and if it isn't- my characters know that it isn't. In S&M scenes, I try not to ever create action that is impossible. If bondage gets irksome in real life, my charcters are irked- why not? that's part of the scene, and I try to turn it into something sexy. There are ways to add the impossiblities into the action anyway- In "Jessamine" her top suggests an enema with beer, and the guest top vetoes it- not that Gloria would have really done it, but she introduces the idea as a fantasy.

Sometimes I think my stuff is too realistic, and I'm missing the magick/symbolism thing that can be so much fun to read...

 

[CharleyH]

I won't write what disgusts me. If it turns me on, I will write it. And that's my standard.
I am aware that what I think of as acceptable doesn't always sit so well with some unsuspecting readers...
I almost always write safe sex, and if it isn't- my characters know that it isn't. In S&M scenes, I try not to ever create action that is impossible. If bondage gets irksome in real life, my charcters are irked- why not? that's part of the scene, and I try to turn it into something sexy. There are ways to add the impossiblities into the action anyway- In "Jessamine" her top suggests an enema with beer, and the guest top vetoes it- not that Gloria would have really done it, but she introduces the idea as a fantasy.

Sometimes I think my stuff is too realistic, and I'm missing the magick/symbolism thing that can be so much fun to read...

Actually, you and Imp and others say a couple of similar things that are worthy of address, and one is about "SAFE" sex. I know Imp responded in regards to condoms, yet I am intrigued for a moment by your own response because it's similar to how I feel.

Perhaps, I, and others have a question of responsibility in our heads because what we write is "real" or at least as real as our experiences go, and in taking our "real" experiences into the domain of fantasy we feel we have as much responsibility as we do in our respective RLs when it comes to sex? Perhaps fantasy makers do not feel the same sense of responsibility?

Thanks for your response, Stella.

Edit to add: Not that non of us are immune from exaggeration to make it more sensual or exciting, or what we want.

 

[Munachi]

Not quite sure what I think of this issue, but I guess I am more into the direction of that phantasy is phantasy and that those people that are bound to do something bad will find their inspiration no matter what, the problem in that case is not a story they read somewhere...

another thing is, that most of what I have written so far is set in a kind of phantasy world, where even not so smart people should easily recognize it is not real...

but - if someone really did something bad claiming to have been inspired by something I wrote that would still be quite horrible. Not sure what I'd do in such a case. I had a few ideas for stories for non-consent, and if I ever write them, I will probably put some type of disclaimer there...

 

[Boota]

I feel no responsibility for anything someone else does, regardless of where they got the idea. Fuck 'em if they don't know better. I write fiction and I won't be held captive by the idea that my fiction might make a nutjob go bugfuck and do something... bugfucky.

With the exception of what I'm currently working on, I write for adults. Whether it is for here on Lit or my other writing, the audience I am writing for should be smart enough not to do certain things that are all right for my characters to do. The childrens book I'm working on right now is the exception I can make to my rule. I might possibly feel partly responsible if I put something in this book that made a kid do something to get hurt or hurt someone else. Not guilty, just partly responsible for giving the little retard the idea.

"You can't save everyone. Just try not to be living next to them when they go off." --Dennis Miller

 

[Boota]

but - if someone really did something bad claiming to have been inspired by something I wrote that would still be quite horrible. Not sure what I'd do in such a case.

I know what I'd do. I'd publicize it. Make everyone want to read the book that drove Crazy Carl to finally bludgeon his grandmother with the bag of kittens.

 

[frozen_north]

I feel no responsibility for anything someone else does, regardless of where they got the idea. Fuck 'em if they don't know better. I write fiction and I won't be held captive by the idea that my fiction might make a nutjob go bugfuck and do something... bugfucky.

With the exception of what I'm currently working on, I write for adults. Whether it is for here on Lit or my other writing, the audience I am writing for should be smart enough not to do certain things that are all right for my characters to do. The childrens book I'm working on right now is the exception I can make to my rule. I might possibly feel partly responsible if I put something in this book that made a kid do something to get hurt or hurt someone else. Not guilty, just partly responsible for giving the little retard the idea.

"You can't save everyone. Just try not to be living next to them when they go off." --Dennis Miller

Thank you Boota, I couldn't have said it better myself. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. It is nothing more than a cop-out (on a biblical scale) to try to pawn off your responsibility by claiming that you got the idea by reading/seeing it somewhere; especially if that somewhere happens to be a work of fiction.

 

[oggbashan]

...
but - if someone really did something bad claiming to have been inspired by something I wrote that would still be quite horrible. Not sure what I'd do in such a case. ...

No one can wholly be their brother's keeper. Ultimately each of us must be responsible for our own actions.

Prolonged contact with a demanding possessive leech of a person who wants you to carry the guilt for all their actions would soon change attitudes to personal responsibility. An addict can destroy family members as well as themselves and damage a community.

Think of all the evil done in the name of religious belief. The founders of almost all religions of the world would be horrified by what has been done in their name.

What someone else makes of your fiction is their choice, not yours.

Og

 

[mazzelsha]

Thank you Boota, I couldn't have said it better myself. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. It is nothing more than a cop-out (on a biblical scale) to try to pawn off your responsibility by claiming that you got the idea by reading/seeing it somewhere; especially if that somewhere happens to be a work of fiction.

I agree, it seems to be the standard excuse these days - 'it wasn't my fault' syndrome - that goes for certain lawsuits concerning fast food & smoking to name just two. People do need to take responsibility for their own actions, I am a firm believer in the fact that the impulses must have been there to begin with regardless of any media intervention. It's an interesting thing to note that the news shows, which broadcast 'on the scene' at car accidents or offer the graphic details of tragedies etc are never accused of this........

 

[Munachi]

I know what I'd do. I'd publicize it. Make everyone want to read the book that drove Crazy Carl to finally bludgeon his grandmother with the bag of kittens.

maybe that would be the more logical approach, but i am just not sure i could do it. maybe i could. maybe i couldn't. i can see myself getting nightmares over it though.

 

[Munachi]

No one can wholly be their brother's keeper. Ultimately each of us must be responsible for our own actions.

Prolonged contact with a demanding possessive leech of a person who wants you to carry the guilt for all their actions would soon change attitudes to personal responsibility. An addict can destroy family members as well as themselves and damage a community.

Think of all the evil done in the name of religious belief. The founders of almost all religions of the world would be horrified by what has been done in their name.

What someone else makes of your fiction is their choice, not yours.

Og

of course... and blaming everything on others is quite an annoying habit indeed. but all i say is, that if i wrote a story, and then someone would for example commit a crime that obviously follows the line of my story, i'd be very creeped out.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Actually, you and Imp and others say a couple of similar things that are worthy of address, and one is about "SAFE" sex. I know Imp responded in regards to condoms, yet I am intrigued for a moment by your own response because it's similar to how I feel.

Perhaps, I, and others have a question of responsibility in our heads because what we write is "real" or at least as real as our experiences go, and in taking our "real" experiences into the domain of fantasy we feel we have as much responsibility as we do in our respective RLs when it comes to sex? Perhaps fantasy makers do not feel the same sense of responsibility?

Thanks for your response, Stella.

Edit to add: Not that non of us are immune from exaggeration to make it more sensual or exciting, or what we want.

exaggeration. yessss...
I have used my stories to re-create scenes that didn't satisfy me, that went wrong for one reason or another. I re-write them how they could have been- if only my playpartners had been more comunicative, if only I had said more sooner... If only the misstep hadn't happened that made it all get... boring. If I exaggerate, that would be it- my characters are always on the same wavelength. That's what's sexy to me- rubbers are extra about then.

And yes, I do feel that responsibility- towards my characters, certainly, I don't want them taking risks!

Also, I learned much of my erotica-writing techniques from Pat Califia, whom I find quite in tune with my desires. And she proved that a rolling on a rubber could be as erotic as any other action in a story.

 

[impressive]

Edit to add: Not that non of us are immune from exaggeration to make it more sensual or exciting, or what we want.

Wait! We're supposed to EXAGGERATE in our writing? Shit. I gotta start all over.

 

[3113]

I have severe problems with depression (which was far worse in my youth). In my teens, I tried to commit suicide several times and thought about killing myself on a regular basis. I remember telling people on at least a dozen occasions that something they said "saved" me. I meant it very sincerely, but looking back on it, nothing anyone said or did could have stopped me if I actually wanted to kill myself.

True enough, although the comment that struck me most among all those comments came from an elderly gentleman who did not seem to be a cronic suicide but rather in a very tough position.

It's not that I don't believe people should take responsiblity for their actions--its that I know, KNOW, just as you and everyone else here knows, how much a story can change a life. A person who never thought about exploring Buddism before reads Siddartha and suddenly decides to give Buddism a try. Now that's a turn in the road that they'd have never taken but for that book. And yes, it's their decision. They will have new experiences and their life will go in a new direction thanks to this decision. Maybe it'll work out and maybe it won't. It's not the author's fault that the reader became a Buddist or if that decision made their life miserable.

It was, however, the writer's talent, imagination, style, idea that inspired the reader to make this decision, which means that writers do have power, and, to quote Spiderman, "With great power comes great responsiblity." I think, what that quote really means, however, is that you take responsiblity for your decisions. If you decide to ignore your power, then you've made a decision, and you can no more abdicate responsiblity for that decision than the reader can abdicate responsibility for theirs.

I understand that we sick to death of teens who blame a song for their suicide attempts, or blame a tv show when they do something stupid. I'm sick of it, too, and if I were a judge and someone was suing a singer for song lyrics that led their kid to suicide, I would throw the case out of court. This does not mean, however, that there is NO such thing as influence. Membership in the KKK went up to record numbers when Birth of a Nation hit the theatres; we can't hold the director personally responsible for that, but we can say that it would have been nice if he'd been more aware of his power to inspire people and give them ideas.

Saying "Don't blame me!' when people take our strories to heart is as much a cheat, I think, as readers saying, "it's all your fault!" It implies that we have no power. And that's not true. I don't think readers should blame us for their decisions--but I also don't think we should pretend that what we write has no influence, and no power to motivate or inspire or give people ideas.

 

[elsol]

*burp*

As in most things... intention and carelessness.

My responsibility ends at the edge of my intention and the extent of my carelessness.

I won't take credit for changing someone's life. If they read my story and were 'inspired' to talk to their partner about their needs... guess what? They didn't find me and ask me to talk to their partner. They dealt with the insecurity, fear, blah..blah and grabbed their nuts (or whatever women grab) and demanded to be heard when it came to sex.

That was not my intention.

I also did not load a gun, cock it, and give it to a two-year old to play with.

No intention.
No carelessness.
No blame.
No responsibility.
No credit.


Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Stella_Omega]

well, honey... I just wandered though your catalogue again. And you make me want to find a REALLY fat woman to make love to...

And I am not joking about that!

 

[3113]

well, honey... I just wandered though your catalogue again. And you make me want to find a REALLY fat woman to make love to...

And I am not joking about that!

(glances side to side) You talking to me? It's not my fault! I take no responsiblity!

 

[Stella_Omega]

I want her to put her knees on my hands...

Someone sent me feedback, on the Baroness' boy, which is pretty over-the-top. She said that, although she still didn't care to try anything I mentioned in that story, I was able to show her why someone might want to.
That was pretty high praise, to me!

 

[S-Des]

I feel no responsibility for anything someone else does, regardless of where they got the idea. Fuck 'em if they don't know better. I write fiction and I won't be held captive by the idea that my fiction might make a nutjob go bugfuck and do something... bugfucky.

You are the poster of the year, IMHO. Can I just pay you to write all my comments, because I cannot say anything that perfectly (I have to warn you, I'm pretty broke most of the time). Besides, anyone who quotes Dennis Miller is all right by me (the bugfucky comment is just a bonus).

3113, I was concerned that I might have made my comment badly and am glad you took it in the context it was meant. Although I disagree with your point about this, I acknowledge that you do make a strong argument. I was inspired to start writing by a story I read right here on Literotica. It set off a chain of events that has made a large difference in my life. The writer (Longhorn) put down a story that for some reason I can't explain, touched me in a way that woke me up to the way my life was sliding in the wrong direction.

That said, at any time I could have gone right back to my self-destructive behavior and his story wouldn't have made any difference at all. I have thanked him often for the difference he made, although the truth is that I'm the one who made the change. He just reminded me that I was being a dumb-shit.

I guess in some ways I'm agreeing with you, but I still like Boota's point . . . bugfucky people suck!

 

[oggbashan]

Responsibility for suicide

My predecessor in one of my management posts was haunted by the suicide of one of the employees that he had fired. The employee was fired after months of counselling, advice, medical tests etc. showed that he was just lazy and incapable of performing an attempt at a reasonable day's work for his pay. The employee had missed many opportunities for reform.

Faced with a similar situation some years later I acted exactly the same. Weeks after dismissal the fired employee wrote to me threatening suicide, blaming me. I advised our company medics who informed the former employee's doctor. I did not, and do not feel guilt that the former employee attempted suicide a month later. He was fired for lack of action to correct his unsatisfactory performance. Over a whole year he was given many opportunities to change his attitude, none of which he took. His attempted suicide was the only act he took to correct his situation.

Both employees had been thoroughly examined for evidence of mental illness. The responsibility for suicide was theirs. It seemed to be the only responsibility they took.

Og

 

[scheherazade_79]

I'm not being funny or anything, but I've got enough of a job taking responsibility for my own actions, let alone other people's.

The 'responsibility' aspect of writing never occurred to me. I'm glad it didn't. Life's complicated enough as it is.

 

[Recidiva]

I'm not being funny or anything, but I've got enough of a job taking responsibility for my own actions, let alone other people's.

The 'responsibility' aspect of writing never occurred to me. I'm glad it didn't. Life's complicated enough as it is.

I don't think it's an issue that comes up a lot.

But take for instance "To Live And Die In LA"

The opening credits showed exactly how to accurately counterfeit.

This was edited to not reveal too much about the process.

Yes, it's artistic, it's realistic, it's fascinating.

Would you have shown it intact?

Questions like that are the ones I'm talking about. I've only hit this issue once and it was only this last week, so it's fresh in my mind.