Writing and responsibility

[CharleyH]

I have written this story, it has a BDSM edge and contains a scene of fireplay. Now, I wondered about this part of the story being a bit too 'edge' play, even if I have taken great pains to describe it safely.

Anyhow, it got me thinking about other sex and BDSM play that we write about, particularly on a free forum like Literotica that 'anyone' could read ...

How much of a responsibility do we have in writing our erotica, particularly if we are writing scenes that have a dangerous element and quite possibly a harmful consequence should one of our readers decide to try it out because it sounds sexy or fun?

The discussion sounds similar to that of the influence of movies on some people, but I thought I'd just try to apply it to sex in our writing as authors.

 

[impressive]

How much of a responsibility do we have in writing our erotica, particularly if we are writing scenes that have a dangerous element and quite possibly a harmful consequence should one of our readers decide to try it out because it sounds sexy or fun?

Doesn't ANY story that fails to incorporate "safe sex" (condoms, etc.) have the same dangerous element? Short of putting disclaimers on 'em, I don't know what else to do.

For example, we did include a disclaimer in all volumes of Coming Together. FYI, it reads:

Please note that Coming Together contains works of fiction in which the characters may not practice safe sex. Readers are encouraged to act responsibly and to take appropriate precautions against both unwanted pregnancy and the transmission of disease. For resources and frank discussion about safe sex practices, please visit the Coalition for Positive Sexuality .

I don't see why you couldn't do the same, although Lit would spit out any non-Lit link.

 

[Recidiva]

I just tried to write nonconsent.

In my own head I can twist it up so badly that it sounds romantic.

And I didn't want to even put that out there, at all, in any form.

Didn't even want to go there in fiction and could clearly see someone using my attempt at psychotic justification as a real good reason to commit rape.

I scrapped the story.

 

[FallingToFly]

Hmmm... pet peeve here.

I write what I write. If you can't handle reading, or make the mistake of attempting it without some research into it (like, fucking a rockstar WITHOUT protection) then I can't be held responsible. This is fantasy, not the way reality works.

I've written bloodplay and severe S&M into some stories- not for Lit, but for other places. I've written noncensual sex and outright rape. It's not something that I think anyone should try- but it made a good story twist. I think Incest is wrong on several levels, although I've written quasi-incest (a stepsister and brother romance novel ), I would never recommend anyone carry such things out.

We can't be held responsible for how people interpret what we write. If I say.. "Beautiful weather today." and some disgruntled person thinks I'm mocking them- that is their interpretation, not my fault. I feel the same about my writing- just because I WROTE about summoning a minor demon to take revenge on a rapist doesn't mean you SHOULD do it, for multiple reasons. Not least of all being; how many people actually know how to do it properly? *coughs* Not me that's for sure. But it made a great story.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

I have written this story, it has a BDSM edge and contains a scene of fireplay. Now, I wondered about this part of the story being a bit too 'edge' play, even if I have taken great pains to describe it safely.

Anyhow, it got me thinking about other sex and BDSM play that we write about, particularly on a free forum like Literotica that 'anyone' could read ...

How much of a responsibility do we have in writing our erotica, particularly if we are writing scenes that have a dangerous element and quite possibly a harmful consequence should one of our readers decide to try it out because it sounds sexy or fun?

The discussion sounds similar to that of the influence of movies on some people, but I thought I'd just try to apply it to sex in our writing as authors.

I think when it comes to bdsm that you need to describe things at a level you're comfortable with. If your characters are wreckless, the reader should be able to pick up on that elsewhere in the story as well as during dangerous play scenes. If, however, they are mainly cautious and practice safely, the reader should pick up on that.

I think any time you write bdsm it is a liability. Having spent time on the boards where many players hang, I've realized that many will grab any idea, no matter how dangerous, and run with it. For that reason, I would personally attempt to hit home the magnitude of safety that I would practice. If done right, it could also intensify the power of the moment. By stressing how important safety is, the moment (when done correctly) will be that much more powerful.

If you'd like someone to take a looksee, shoot it over. Email addy on its way in PM just in case. I'm getting ready to head out for a bit.

~lucky

 

[rgraham666]

I'll reply using that quote of Rod Serling's I've used when this has been brought up before.

"I am responsible to the public, not for the public."

What we write is fantasies. Any reasonably well adjusted person will understand that.

The unbalanced will always find something to trigger their fetishes. I'm sure the catalogs that large department store chains put out are very popular with pedophiles. They can find beautiful children dressed in underwear in them.

But the chains aren't responsible for what the pedophiles do. That is entirely the pedophiles fault. They chose to act on their impulses, or not.

Same with what we write.

 

[AchtungNight]

I get such a feeling sometimes too. I fear people will read my stories and think that the real people I write fiction about are really like their characters, then make mistakes. Or worse, the real people will read the story, track me down, and re-enact the beat-up montage from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, sue me, or do something even worse. Then I'm reminded I have legal protection thanks to disclaimers, and that no one who doesn't appreciate the truth and value of sex fantasy stories reads them anyway (or so we hope). That makes me calm down. Despite this knowledge, though, I still include disclaimers and try to encourage responsibility and maturity through my work. Responsibility and maturity in sex, relationships, and other things. It's the prudent practice to follow, I believe.

 

[Recidiva]

I'll reply using that quote of Rod Serling's I've used when this has been brought up before.

"I am responsible to the public, not for the public."

What we write is fantasies. Any reasonably well adjusted person will understand that.

The unbalanced will always find something to trigger their fetishes. I'm sure the catalogs that large department store chains put out are very popular with pedophiles. They can find beautiful children dressed in underwear in them.

But the chains aren't responsible for what the pedophiles do. That is entirely the pedophiles fault. They chose to act on their impulses, or not.

Same with what we write.

This is true and if you don't have any qualms, that's a great place to be.

For me, I cringed and thought "Fuck, I can't unthink that"

And I didn't want to make anybody else think it.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

I'll reply using that quote of Rod Serling's I've used when this has been brought up before.

"I am responsible to the public, not for the public."

What we write is fantasies. Any reasonably well adjusted person will understand that.

The unbalanced will always find something to trigger their fetishes. I'm sure the catalogs that large department store chains put out are very popular with pedophiles. They can find beautiful children dressed in underwear in them.

But the chains aren't responsible for what the pedophiles do. That is entirely the pedophiles fault. They chose to act on their impulses, or not.

Same with what we write.

I agree with this entirely. I also know myself well enough to know that if I wrote something that spawned some idiot to go act it out and harm someone else, that I couldn't live well with that on my conscience. For me, it's a responsibility to my own standards that I write by.

 

[JohnnieJohnson]

Reminds me of the lawsuits filed against the MTV "Jackass" program. They showed idiots deliberately doing idiotic things guaranteed to cause pain to themselves and likely to cause serious harm. Other idiots watched, did the same things, got hurt, and sued. Idiots.

 

[rgraham666]

I agree with this entirely. I also know myself well enough to know that if I wrote something that spawned some idiot to go act it out and harm someone else, that I couldn't live well with that on my conscience. For me, it's a responsibility to my own standards that I write by.

Same here, lucky. So I'm careful and restrained when I write pieces 'on the edge'. Well, 'on the edge' for me.

I'm also careful with the emotional content. I make sure that all characters are willing. Even my one 'Reluctance' piece. The female protagonist was more than willing by the time the guy was done with her. And no force was involved. She was seduced rather than raped.

But I'd feel bad if someone took one of my pieces as an excuse to go out and do something awful.

 

[Guest]

The Jenny Jones show did a secret admirer show back in March 1995... for the show much of the secrets were men having crushes on women and women having crushes on men... however there was one exception: Scott Bernard Amedure had a secret crush on Jonathan Schmitz....

Schmitz was so enraged, embarrassed, etc that he bought a shotgun and killed Amedure. "Schmitz was convicted of second degree murder and was sentenced to 25 to 50 years. Schmitz appealed and was found guilty of the same offences and the original sentence was handed down again. As a result of the killing, the show was never aired."

Now.... the show to HUGE amounts of heat... Jenny Jones, the show, and the network were sued. Originally they won $25 million dollars in the law suit but it was overturned by a higher court. The Amedure family has an appeal waiting to be heard....

Now that being said... that was TV, a talk show, a gossip mongering bit of trash.... are they responsible for lying to Schmitz? Are they responible for the 'mental anguish' that this confession caused him to go and kill Amedure.....

In one sense I agree that we write fiction, erotica, sexual play... but in the same token... there are many times that I wonder is something that one of us writes one day going to be on the 10 o'clock news.... that someone acted it out?

Where does our responsible as authors come into play.... what are we responsible for?

My answer... everything that we write

 

[3113]

Excellent question, Charley.

I write what I write. If you can't handle reading, or make the mistake of attempting it without some research into it (like, fucking a rockstar WITHOUT protection) then I can't be held responsible.

Hm. I understand your peeve. And agree to a point. On the one hand, we can't let fear of such a thing censor our muse or we'd never write anything for fear of it being taken the wrong way. But when you write with the intent to present your work to an audience, to readers--and not just for your own mastabatory self--then if means that you KNOW the power of writing. You know that a book, even a fiction book that everyone knows is fiction, can transform.

People wrote to me after I put up Till Dawn telling me they'd seriously been thinking about suicide and the story had changed their mind (obviously, I don't know how serious they were, but some of the feedback and comments seemed genuine). And this is a piddling short story on an on-line, erotic website. It's hardly one of those best selling inspirational novels.

So, yes, on the one hand, we CAN'T go overboard and silence the muse. But on the other hand, we can't be blind to the fact that stories, even fictional stories, have power. GREAT power. Yes, sometimes we write just for enjoyment, but sometimes, we're trying to say something. And it's hypocritical to say, on the one hand, "It's just fiction!" yet on the other hand think, "This story has an important message!"

I see too many writers who puff up with pride about how a work of fiction can influence peole and change the world (take note of Uncle Tom's Cabin which, while it didn't cause the American Civil War, certainly brought many into the anti-slavery movement)--and then, when someone says, "Be responsible," they duck behind, "It's just fiction! It's not real!"

That's a cheat. We can't ignore, I think, the power of fiction. In the end, however, I think the answer is: Whatever serves the story.

For example, in my first draft of a BDSM gay story, I tried to create this scene where burning hot oil was dripped on someone. My excellent editor for that story told me this was really going too far--not because readers might try it, but because it wasn't realistic.. As it didn't hurt the story to remove that scene--in fact, it made it tighter and more readable--I had no problem editing it out.

One does have to think of ones readers. Who are they, and what ARE they likely to try. BDSM folk might, yes, try stuff. And be stupid about it. Which brings me to my bit of hypocrisy: I have condoms in all my gay stories. None of my gay guys do it bareback unless they're an established couple. Yet I've never used a condom in my Romance stories. That's a hold over from having gay friends who died of AIDs during the 80's AIDs epidemic. It's more automatic for me to hand them a condom. With the shy readers of romance (at least, that's the kind of romance readers I get, shy), I'm less worried about their having casual sex. So condoms don't immediately come to mind.

 

[Antfarmer77]

I don't feel writers are any way responsible for anything anyone does, in reguards to them trying something of questionable safety that they read in a story. It's time for people to start taking responsibilty for their own actions and stop blaming movies, books, heavy metal and drive through coffee for their own stupidity.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Oddly enough, I agree completely with both the two preceeding posts.

 

[oggbashan]

Popular Fiction

Look in your local bookstore.

Note the titles and books that deal with revolting deaths, mutilations, torture, rape and other unpleasant subjects.

What is on general sale is often far worse than our postings here.

Hannibal Lecter, Freddie Kreuger, where are you?

Og

 

[FallingToFly]

3113:

I can agree on some points. Anything posted on my LJ has a rating and a description, and a disclaimer about possible squicks. Lit doesn't allow me to do that (which I really think is a shame, because I think I do it very well so there's little to no confusion as to what is in the story, and the description line we're given is very short, really) so I have to debate on what I put up. I can't put up Handmaiden because the woman in that story not only goes insane and literally does rape a man, she also slaughters his secret mistress so she can have him all to herself. (It's a story about one of Lady Guinivere's handmaiden's falling madly in love with Lancelot.) It's graphic and violent (and I'm told sexy as hell) but it isn't appropriate for Lit.

I don't write to "get myself off" although I have no problem with people who do. I write because I have a story in my head, and if sex is part of it, so be it- but I write more non-erotic than erotic. I just post more of the erotic stuff. At some point in my horror stories, sex or or least sensuality comes into play, because to me, those go hand in hand- when in the face of greatest peril and evil, emotions run high, and intense, and physical sensations are heightened- sex can be an almost guaranteed explosive experience, right?

But I am violently opposed to the blaming of others for one's own actions. No, it isn't fair that you got a bad batch of acid and scarred your face with your nails- but did you have to buy the shit in the first place? Oh, it's HIS fault you shot him to death- because he said he had a crush on you. Dear gods, did he make you go out and buy the damn shotgun as well? Oh, yeah, she MADE you hit her, because she asked if you could pick up your feet while she vacuumed. Yeah, it's my fault you decided to commit illegal acts of demon worship and summon a twelve-foot tall slobbering tentacle monster from a hentai nightmare- because I wrote a fictional NonHuman Erotic Horror story... <insert heavy sarcasm where appropriate> It's like me suing a tobacco company because I chose to smoke, knowing the risks. What a crock of a cop-out.

If I write it- someone has to choose to read it. I will not stand over you with a gun and force you to read it. You can back-click at any time. Don't even attempt to blame me because your crotch itched too much for you to exert self-control and back away. I don't do pretty fluffy smut, except on rare occasions. I write horror stories for the most part- smut is a sideline. Guess which has a stronger influence?

 

[S-Des]

Look in your local bookstore.

Note the titles and books that deal with revolting deaths, mutilations, torture, rape and other unpleasant subjects.

What is on general sale is often far worse than our postings here.

Hannibal Lecter, Freddie Kreuger, where are you?

Og

Amen. These threads keep popping up and I keep being baffled by the responses. The sickest thing I ever read was sold to me as a 14 year-old boy at a regular bookstore. It involved demon worship and a grown man raping, then causing a young girl (13 or 14) to be possessed. He was a demon and trying to damage the church by convincing people she had stigmata, then once people believed, he wanted to turn that belief into something else. It was fairly graphic and contained several scenes of sex between them (not to mention the thought of her being abused almost nightly since it first happened to the end of the story). That story couldn't be posted on this adult Web site because of the content, but it was for sale to anyone who wanted it.

Seriously, if you guys think that anything you write is even remotely as twisted as what's out there, you are wrong. Someone reading a story on this site is also probably reading on one of a thousand that has no filters (bestiality, underage sex, and snuff). If you don't want to write something because you're uncomfortable with it, I encourage you to follow your feelings. I don't write things that I don't like, regardless of the site's rules and restrictions. If you're afraid to write something because you will feel responsible for some future atrocity, I think you're putting far too much pressure on yourself.

3113, I loved Till Dawn. I can see how someone in a depressed state would be very touched by that. However, I have severe problems with depression (which was far worse in my youth). In my teens, I tried to commit suicide several times and thought about killing myself on a regular basis. I remember telling people on at least a dozen occasions that something they said "saved" me. I meant it very sincerely, but looking back on it, nothing anyone said or did could have stopped me if I actually wanted to kill myself. Conversely, nothing anyone here writes is going to cause someone to do something sick and twisted. Contribute possibly, but never be the cause. Are we really going to try to live our lives hoping not to contribute to someone else's issues?

 

[CharleyH]

Look in your local bookstore.

Note the titles and books that deal with revolting deaths, mutilations, torture, rape and other unpleasant subjects.

What is on general sale is often far worse than our postings here.

Hannibal Lecter, Freddie Kreuger, where are you?

Og

Yes, well - lol - I did happen to mention movies. I suppose I simply thought the element of writing about sex on a public forum may be different than in movies or those novels we find in book stores, after all, book stores have fewer censorship obligations than on Lit or other similar public forums. I also imagine that Lit stories or public stories as we write, have a much greater general circulation or reach than those in book stores, and in this 'context' I thought it interesting to discuss writing about sex and any sort of responsibility we may or may not have as Literotica writers. Thanks, Og.

-----

Getting away from a direct response to your post and as an aside and just talking out loud and in general, there have been some intriguing answers so far, and I think it's a debate or discussion that has never, nor will it ever be out of vogue. Perhaps some feel it should and perhaps others feel it should not be out of view as a discussion, but both views are always fascinating. Thank you all for posting thus far, and please continue, as I am not only learning something here (I hope others are benefitting by responding and reading as well), but I find the diversity of each individual answer quite intoxicating and a welcome break from my story at hand - lol. Cheers.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I am split on this. On one hand, I think we have the responsibility to provoke a reaction or to stirr thought, we have the moral obligation to ourselves to mold the political and social mind of the readers without those suckers realising we're pulling their strings. On the other hand, any reader that allows his strings to be pulled that easily or stupid enough to immitate some of the reckless, criminal or fantastic situations we may depict, shouldn't be near a computer anyway.

 

[oggbashan]

... On the other hand, any reader that allows his strings to be pulled that easily or stupid enough to immitate some of the reckless, criminal or fantastic situations we may depict, shouldn't be near a computer anyway.

Have a look at the Darwin Awards. There are really stupid people out there who need glaring warnings to avoid self mutilation and death - if they would read them.

Og

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Have a look at the Darwin Awards. There are really stupid people out there who need glaring warnings to avoid self mutilation and death - if they would read them.

Og

From a purely Darwinian point of view, for the sake of the species, if even one complete idiot reads my work and offs him- or herself as a direct result, it will make it all worth while.

I'm probably joking. Maybe.

 

[Katyusha]

Hmmm... pet peeve here.

I write what I write. If you can't handle reading, or make the mistake of attempting it without some research into it (like, fucking a rockstar WITHOUT protection) then I can't be held responsible. This is fantasy, not the way reality works.

I've written bloodplay and severe S&M into some stories- not for Lit, but for other places. I've written noncensual sex and outright rape. It's not something that I think anyone should try- but it made a good story twist. I think Incest is wrong on several levels, although I've written quasi-incest (a stepsister and brother romance novel ), I would never recommend anyone carry such things out.

We can't be held responsible for how people interpret what we write. If I say.. "Beautiful weather today." and some disgruntled person thinks I'm mocking them- that is their interpretation, not my fault. I feel the same about my writing- just because I WROTE about summoning a minor demon to take revenge on a rapist doesn't mean you SHOULD do it, for multiple reasons. Not least of all being; how many people actually know how to do it properly? *coughs* Not me that's for sure. But it made a great story.

I wholeheartedly agree...it's like people who blame television for their children's behavior. The child tries something that he sees in a commercial, for instance, and at best, winds up disappointed, and at worst, ends up hurt. To me, that's not the advertisers' fault so much as it's the fault of the parent for not teaching their children about the difference between fantasy and reality. Obviously, we can't anticipate every situation and teach every last little thing, but IMO, people need to use common sense. We shouldn't have to put disclaimers on our stories because someone MIGHT refuse to use common sense. I haven't mentioned birth control or protection in any of my work thus far because it just doesn't fit into the scenes that I'm trying to create for the reader. It doesn't mean that I'm advocating unsafe sex practices; it just means I'm trying to create a certain fictional image.

 

[Recidiva]

I think if you're going to take responsibility for positive consequences (they love my ideas, they're making them a part of their thought process)

You need to take responsibility for negative consequences. (they hate my ideas, they're twisting them into something ugly)

This is a journalist difficulty as well. You discover someone is having an affair. Yes, it's an ugly reality. Do you out them? Do you stride in and report to the world this person's ugly and hold it up as a trophy? Regardless of who will be hurt? (innocent spouses, children)

Ugly thoughts and ugly actions, sometimes there are some shades of gray that can't be justified, in my opinion, by "I can't let this stop me."

If you think it should stop you, stop.

 

[Katyusha]

I think if you're going to take responsibility for positive consequences (they love my ideas, they're making them a part of their thought process)

You need to take responsibility for negative consequences. (they hate my ideas, they're twisting them into something ugly).

Ah...very true as well. Argh. I hate it when I agree with all sides of an issue.

This can be applied to a lot of aspects of our lives too...none of us can have it both ways. I do still think more people need to use common sense when reading stories and understand that there's a difference between reality and fantasy, and most of these stories are not true stories, however...those who say that they can be powerful and influence people's thought processes negatively are also correct.

What a convoluted issue this is.