World Wide Festival of Protests

[REDWAVE]

In the history of popular resistance to government tyranny and warmongering, February 15, 2003, will go down as one the greatest days ever. Tens of millions of people marched throughout the world, in a massive show of opposition to war with Iraq. The two biggest were in London and Italy, although the one in New York City rivalled it in size. Even in backward Las Vegas, there was a march and rally starting at the Bellagio on the Strip, and marching down to Tropicana and then back up. The crowd was estimated at about 800, and the event was entirely peaceful. Yours truly was present at this event.

In NYC, the crowd was vastly larger, estimated as high as over 500,000. There was a massive police presence at the main rally, but chaos reigned just west of there, on Second and Third Avenues. Snake marches and other direct actions took place. Over 300 people were arrested, and there are numerous accounts of police brutality. Cops on horseback charged into the penned-in crowds, and protesters were maced, trampled, and beaten.

The best countermeasure for rampaging cops on horses is simply releasing a few marbles. Soon, required gear for the fashionable protester will include the following items. First, a gas mask. When the police put on their gas masks, you know it's time to put on yours: they're getting ready to gas the crowd. Second, a blunt instrument of some sort: cane, walking stick, baseball bat, golf club, umbrella, etc. Third, as Abby Hoffman noted, a garbage can lid makes a crude but fairly effective shield.

For armed self-defense against police state terror and repression!

 

[Lost Cause]

Link..

http://authoritarianopportunistswhocozyuptogenocidaldictators-forpeace.org/

 

[Spinaroonie]

Re: Link..

http://authoritarianopportunistswhocozyuptogenocidaldictators-forpeace.org/

Y'know... we're not saying that Saddam is an ok guy. We're saying that war is not the answer and will cause more harm than good.

 

[teddybear4play]

Re: Link..

http://authoritarianopportunistswhocozyuptogenocidaldictators-forpeace.org/

I thought it was antiestablishmentshitheadsshallhearonlylazyemptyheadedstatements.com.

Better known by their acronym, of course.

TB4p

 

[REDWAVE]

NYC IMC

 

[Spinaroonie]

There was a massive police presence at the main rally, but chaos reigned just west of there, on Second and Third Avenues. Snake marches and other direct actions took place. Over 300 people were arrested, and there are numerous accounts of police brutality. Cops on horseback charged into the penned-in crowds, and protesters were maced, trampled, and beaten.

The best countermeasure for rampaging cops on horses is simply releasing a few marbles. Soon, required gear for the fashionable protester will include the following items. First, a gas mask. When the police put on their gas masks, you know it's time to put on yours: they're getting ready to gas the crowd. Second, a blunt instrument of some sort: cane, walking stick, baseball bat, golf club, umbrella, etc. Third, as Abby Hoffman noted, a garbage can lid makes a crude but fairly effective shield.

For armed self-defense against police state terror and repression!

um.

um.

um.

I have to say the cops were pretty at mine. They just blocked traffic and stuff, smoked cigars, etc.

 

[Mellon Collie]

I was so sad that I had to miss the one in NYC today but I did make it down to Washington for the last one A.N.S.W.E.R. hosted.

 

[Ham Murabi]

How in the world could I pass up the opportunity to march in support of Saddam?
Poison gas, anthrax – what's not to like? Massive prisons, torture and executions, no free speech, no right to assemble, no right to a fair trial.
Yes, I would have done myself proud if I could have somehow mustered up the energy to go out and praise Saddam.
Lord knows the Iraqis would be in a world of hurt with a regime change. Thank God we've got Redrave looking out for the little guy in Iraq.

 

[Spinaroonie]

I was so sad that I had to miss the one in NYC today but I did make it down to Washington for the last one A.N.S.W.E.R. hosted.

JUDAS

 

[Ham Murabi]

Re: Re: Link..

Y'know... we're not saying that Saddam is an ok guy. We're saying that war is not the answer and will cause more harm than good.

OK, I can buy that. You think Iraqis are better off under Saddam, and that we're all safer as long as Saddam is in power.
Makes sense to me.

 

[Mellon Collie]

JUDAS

I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Re: Re: Re: Link..

OK, I can buy that. You think Iraqis are better off under Saddam, and that we're all safer as long as Saddam is in power.
Makes sense to me.

Wow. That's not what I said at all.

I do not believe that Iraqis are "better" with Saddam. I don't think that sending 600-800 missles into Bagdad over two days, targeting such things as power plants and water works and sewage treatment plants is going to be a great service to the Iraqi people. We shouldn't kill people in the name of protecting them.

 

[Mellon Collie]

How in the world could I pass up the opportunity to march in support of Saddam?
Poison gas, anthrax – what's not to like? Massive prisons, torture and executions, no free speech, no right to assemble, no right to a fair trial.
Yes, I would have done myself proud if I could have somehow mustered up the energy to go out and praise Saddam.
Lord knows the Iraqis would be in a world of hurt with a regime change. Thank God we've got Redrave looking out for the little guy in Iraq.

Please don’t presume to know why I protest this war.

Thanks.

 

[Spinaroonie]

I'll take that as a compliment.

You know I think you're

 

[Ham Murabi]

Please don’t presume to know why I protest this war.

Thanks.

I didn't quote you. Please don't presume that I did.

 

[Mellon Collie]

Cuz I am, man.

Werd.

 

[kotori]

You know I think you're

Me too.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Link..

Wow. That's not what I said at all.

I do not believe that Iraqis are "better" with Saddam. I don't think that sending 600-800 missles into Bagdad over two days, targeting such things as power plants and water works and sewage treatment plants is going to be a great service to the Iraqi people. We shouldn't kill people in the name of protecting them.

So your protest is that Americans are better off with Saddam? The man's history as an assassin, tyrant, mass murderer, despot and jaywalker (OK, I made the last one up) leaves you believing the rest of the world will be just fine while he's in power, and so what if he keeps his countrymen under his cruel thumb.
I'm inclined to believe the man is dangerous, and not just to the people who live in his country. You obviously believe otherwise.

 

[Mellon Collie]

Wait I have logic, let me call this argument...

Hmm, Straw Man, he is purposely distorting your argument, fighting said distorted argument then claiming his to be valid.

Either that or he is completely missing the point.

(I so got an A on that test K.)

 

[Spinaroonie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Link..

So you're protest is that Americans are better off with Saddam? The man's history as an assassin, tyrant, mass murderer, despot and jaywalker (OK, I made the last one up) leaves you believing the rest of the world will be just fine while he's in power, and so what if he keeps his countrymen under his cruel thumb.
I'm inclined to believe the man is dangerous, and not just to the people who live in his country. You obviously believe otherwise.

So you're saying the US should attack every country known to man? What? You didn't? Well I didn't say the things you're saying I am. Reading is FUNdamental.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Link..

So you're saying the US should attack every country known to man? What? You didn't? Well I didn't say the things you're saying I am. Reading is FUNdamental.

You are correct. Reading is fundamental. So is knowledge. I wouldn't presume to suggest that every ruler, elected or not, is Saddam's equal. You choose to, apparently.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Wait I have logic, let me call this argument...

Hmm, Straw Man, he is purposely distorting your argument, fighting said distorted argument then claiming his to be valid.

Either that or he is completely missing the point.

(I so got an A on that test K.)

I knew I adopted you for a reason
(that sig will be back, btw)

 

[Mellon Collie]

Yeah, those four days sure do make one hell of a difference in the level of maturity and the ability to raise someone our own age, between the two of us. You do it much better than I ever could.

 

[REDWAVE]

The youth are so cool.

Dinosaurs like HM don't have a clue.

 

[Ham Murabi]

The youth are so cool.

Dinosaurs like HM don't have a clue.

Here's what I don't have a clue about. Redrave, the champion of the little guy, doesn't care about the little guy in Iraq. I think more will die if Saddam stays in power than would died if he was taken from power.
Combine that with Saddam's known stockpile of weapons of mass destruction — you know, the ones he's used before —and I can't think of a more appropriate reason for going to war.

In the words of Prime MinisterTONY BLAIR:

But there are also consequences of "stop the war".

If I took that advice, and did not insist on disarmament, yes, there would be no war. But there would still be Saddam. Many of the people marching will say they hate Saddam. But the consequences of taking their advice is that he stays in charge of Iraq, ruling the Iraqi people. A country that in 1978, the year before he seized power, was richer than Malaysia or Portugal. A country where today, 135 out of every 1000 Iraqi children die before the age of five - 70% of these deaths are from diarrhoea and respiratory infections that are easily preventable. Where almost a third of children born in the centre and south of Iraq have chronic malnutrition.

Where 60% of the people depend on Food Aid.

Where half the population of rural areas have no safe water.

Where every year and now, as we speak, tens of thousands of political prisoners languish in appalling conditions in Saddam's jails and are routinely executed.

Where in the past 15 years over 150,000 Shia Moslems in Southern Iraq and Moslem Kurds in Northern Iraq have been butchered; with up to four million Iraqis in exile round the world, including 350,000 now in Britain.

This isn't a regime with Weapons of Mass Destruction that is otherwise benign. This is a regime that contravenes every single principle or value anyone of our politics believes in.

There will be no march for the victims of Saddam, no protests about the thousands of children that die needlessly every year under his rule, no righteous anger over the torture chambers which if he is left in power, will be left in being.

I rejoice that we live in a country where peaceful protest is a natural part of our democratic process.

But I ask the marchers to understand this.

I do not seek unpopularity as a badge of honour. But sometimes it is the price of leadership. And the cost of conviction.

But as you watch your TV pictures of the march, ponder this:

If there are 500,000 on that march, that is still less than the number of people whose deaths Saddam has been responsible for.

If there are one million, that is still less than the number of people who died in the wars he started................


I'd like to see the "peace" movement take some responsibility for the likely consequences of its views, and the deaths that may come from doing nothing. But those don't count, you see, because the United States isn't involved.
Meanwhile David Pryce-Jones writes that the protesters' lack of concern for Arab lives and freedom is, well, racist. "Behind the demonstrators' slogans lies the assumption that Arabs should be left alone: they don't mind being brutalised, tortured and murdered by a fascist thug like Saddam."