Lauren Hynde
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Or it requires for me to live where I live, so it is on live every afternoon.Weird Harold said:Watch the Tour de France?
Of course that pretty much requires you have OLN on your cable connection; nobody else even shows higlights.
Lauren Hynde
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Good plan!CharleyH said:Have sex?
Lauren Hynde
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Don't worry, Champions League will start soon, and so will Euro2008 qualifying.Sub Joe said:
Lauren Hynde
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I'll make a chart when the new FIFA ranking is published in a couple of days.
OhMissScarlett
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That was some crazy shit.
Oh well, the Italian guys ripped off their shorts, that's all I wanted to see.
Oh well, the Italian guys ripped off their shorts, that's all I wanted to see.
Lauren Hynde
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FIFA had the foresight to start the game one hour before the usual time, though.Sub Joe said:
OhMissScarlett
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I'm sure they were thinking of our anticipation of the stripping when they decided to do that.Lauren Hynde said:
Lauren Hynde
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I can think of no other reason.OhMissScarlett said:I'm sure they were thinking of our anticipation of the stripping when they decided to do that.
CrazyyAngel
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OhMissScarlett said:Oh well, the Italian guys ripped off their shorts, that's all I wanted to see.
The german commentators take on this "Ahm ... he won't go over to the chancellor and bundespräsident without his pants on, is he?"
hilarious ...As much as I have grown to dislike the Italians ... Congratulations.
Zidanes headbutt was the most stupid thing anyone could do in a finals game. It was their own fault they lost the game ...
Italy winning won me € 100 in our office game
So after all, it wasn't that bad that Italy won ... (although that championship should have rightfully been ours ). It was a great party ... and I hope the rest of the world enjoyed it as much as we did hosting it!CA
OhMissScarlett
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I don't know which is worse, going with no pants or going with a silly hat and an Italian flag cape.CrazyyAngel said:The german commentators take on this "Ahm ... he won't go over to the chancellor and bundespräsident without his pants on, is he?"
gauchecritic
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Lauren Hynde said:What do we do now that it's over?
Moan and whinge about penalty shootouts (or PKs as our Yanqui brethren like to call them) and insist that we go back to the the system schoolboys use all over the world: Next goal is the winner.
Even when you're winning 27-15 there are few schoolboys that will balk at 'next goal winner'
Penalties are rubbish and I'd bet that it was the Italians that forced FIFA to revert.
fieryjen
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Yessssss! Bragging rights.Lauren Hynde said:most seconds and thirds.
And I do think it was a great world cup, overall. I just wish I could have experienced it in Germany (even if only to hear the comment about walking up to the Chancellor and the Bundespräsident without pants on.
)Ah well. *waves German flag wildly*
dr_mabeuse
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I'm one of those Americans who doesn't understand soccer's appeal, but since it's the world's favorite sport, I recognize that the problem must lie within me and not in the game. I'd really like to be able to appreciate it, but there's just so much I don't get.
I played the game in college for a term as part of physical education but never really developed any skills, so maybe that's part of it. I suppose that someone who's never had the satisfaction of having a baseball thwack into a mitt or hitting one with a bat would never understand that sport either, and I'm told that a lot of the thrill in soccer is in watching the players' individual skill with the ball, which is something that goes right by me (I get terribly frustrated that they just don't pick it up and run with it), but other than that, what I see is a bunch of guys kicking the ball up and down the field and finally scoring on a corner kick or penalty. Surely there's more to the game than that.
The sports I'm most familiar with that come closest to soccer are probably basketball and ice hockey (though there's now a professional lacrosse league as well), but in these games what usually seems to happen is a midfielder or guard gets the ball or puck and kind of holds on to it it till his team can get into an attack configuration near the opponent's goal before they try to score. In other words, they set up "plays". I don’t see this in soccer, in which it usually seems like one or two attackers will charge into 4 or 5 defenders and almost inevitably lose the ball—an exercise in futility—and then the same thing will happen down at the other end of the field.
Why don’t they set up plays in soccer? Is it just too hard to control the ball? Or is what looks like chaos to me actually strategic play?
I also notice that the coaches don't do much in a soccer game, unlike baseball and basketball where they're constantly making adjustments in strategy and tactics. Does that mean there isn't any real strategy?
The other thing I wondered about was in the shootout at the end of the championship game. It seemed like the goalies invariably leap to the side of the net exactly opposite from where the player actually shoots the ball. I suppose they were faked out by his body language or something, but after you've been faked out like that 2 or 3 times, don't you start thinking "It looks like he's going to shoot it to my left, so he's probably actually going to shoot it to my right"? I mean, this kind of double and triple guessing goes on in baseball with every pitch and players get pretty good at psyching each other out, which is part of the fun of watching a game. But these goalies looked tragically inept, leaping dramaticaly to theri right while the ball sails by to their left. (In fact, I thought the whole shootout itself was kind of unpleasant to watch, like shooting fish in a barrel. It just seemed so unfair.)
Anyhow, I guess what I'm asking is whether someone can describe to me what makes the game so captivating and exciting to its fans—what it is you watch and what you look for during a game, where the strategy and mental game comes into play, and basically, what it is that you see that I don't.
If you like, I'm willing to do the same for you regarding baseball and American football, because I know that a lot of soccer fans are as mystified by these games as I am by soccer.
I played the game in college for a term as part of physical education but never really developed any skills, so maybe that's part of it. I suppose that someone who's never had the satisfaction of having a baseball thwack into a mitt or hitting one with a bat would never understand that sport either, and I'm told that a lot of the thrill in soccer is in watching the players' individual skill with the ball, which is something that goes right by me (I get terribly frustrated that they just don't pick it up and run with it), but other than that, what I see is a bunch of guys kicking the ball up and down the field and finally scoring on a corner kick or penalty. Surely there's more to the game than that.
The sports I'm most familiar with that come closest to soccer are probably basketball and ice hockey (though there's now a professional lacrosse league as well), but in these games what usually seems to happen is a midfielder or guard gets the ball or puck and kind of holds on to it it till his team can get into an attack configuration near the opponent's goal before they try to score. In other words, they set up "plays". I don’t see this in soccer, in which it usually seems like one or two attackers will charge into 4 or 5 defenders and almost inevitably lose the ball—an exercise in futility—and then the same thing will happen down at the other end of the field.
Why don’t they set up plays in soccer? Is it just too hard to control the ball? Or is what looks like chaos to me actually strategic play?
I also notice that the coaches don't do much in a soccer game, unlike baseball and basketball where they're constantly making adjustments in strategy and tactics. Does that mean there isn't any real strategy?
The other thing I wondered about was in the shootout at the end of the championship game. It seemed like the goalies invariably leap to the side of the net exactly opposite from where the player actually shoots the ball. I suppose they were faked out by his body language or something, but after you've been faked out like that 2 or 3 times, don't you start thinking "It looks like he's going to shoot it to my left, so he's probably actually going to shoot it to my right"? I mean, this kind of double and triple guessing goes on in baseball with every pitch and players get pretty good at psyching each other out, which is part of the fun of watching a game. But these goalies looked tragically inept, leaping dramaticaly to theri right while the ball sails by to their left. (In fact, I thought the whole shootout itself was kind of unpleasant to watch, like shooting fish in a barrel. It just seemed so unfair.)
Anyhow, I guess what I'm asking is whether someone can describe to me what makes the game so captivating and exciting to its fans—what it is you watch and what you look for during a game, where the strategy and mental game comes into play, and basically, what it is that you see that I don't.
If you like, I'm willing to do the same for you regarding baseball and American football, because I know that a lot of soccer fans are as mystified by these games as I am by soccer.
Huckleman2000
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I'm with you, Zoot. I watched the whole game, and it didn't even seem as exciting as when I watched my son's soccer games when he was in middle school. At least the kids scored once in awhile.dr_mabeuse said:
And the crowd reactions seemed to be just a steady roar, barely connected to the action on the field until that guy headbutted the other guy and got thrown out - the highlight of the match, apparently. Apart from that, there were times when part of them seemed to be singing or chanting something for no apparent reason.
I liked that France seemed to be able to keep the ball on the Italian end of the field, and they were obviously trying to accomplish something other than pass the ball with precision - they aren't the Harlem Globetrotters, after all. But for all the flashy ball handling, it all sort of seemed fruitless. Well, it WAS fruitless.
As to strategy, knocking the ball around with their heads can't be good for their cognitive skills in the long term. Probably why they limit substitutions to only three, which are non-refundable.
I don't understand "offsides" at all. Breakaways are the most exciting plays in Hockey, Basketball, Football... I mean, if you can't get open downfield to receive a pass, what's the point? Make the damn goalies earn their keep! I can think of only one save in 2 hours of play, and that pissed the guy off so much that he headbutted the other guy for talking trash! The one play that sticks out in my mind is that Italian goal that got called back. Now THAT looked like an incredibly skillful play. Which brings me to the next point - the ref seems to have an awful lot of determination over the game, and there's only one of him. He had to check with the side guy about the head butt, when it's all over the Jumbotron! And the commentators said that they shouldn't have shown the replay on the Jumbotron! Can't the guy on the side throw a flag when he sees something like that? And what's with bringing the stretcher out on the field every ten minutes, and no one gets carted off? I understand taking a dive for a penalty, but the whole stretcher thing smacks of World Wrestling Federation theatricality. Not that they don't need a bit of something to liven it up, it's just that you'd think it would go in the direction of making the play more exciting, not the injuries.
Okay, I'm ranting at 4:30 in the morning. I really need a job or something...
dr_mabeuse
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I understand the idea of trying to draw a penalty by writhing on the ground in agony, but they do seem to take it to ridiculous extremes. It makes me wonder what rugby players must think when they watch soccer.
And for a game that's so dependent on penalty kicks, the ref's calls seem terribly arbitrary and often just downright wrong, but no one seems to complain too vehemently as far as I could tell. To me, it gives the whole game a kind of pointlessness. All this going up and down the field and ball handling, and then someone trips and the ref awards a free kick and that determines who wins the game.
It occurs to me that maybe soccer games are more like exhibitions or shows than they are competitive contests, but then that's what I'm trying to find out here.
I remember watching an Italian baseball game once on TV, and after a while it occurred to me that they weren't playing the game to win so much as they were playing it to look good on the field and put on a show. Every play was ultra-dramatic with bodies flying around and guys falling down in agony--part sport and part theater--and this was baseball, hardly the most dramatic sport in the world. The players looked great; the play was mediocre. I've wondered if maybe the same thing applies somewhat to soccer?
The other possibility I've heard discussed is that there really isn't much more to the game than what we see on TV, which is what makes it so popular: it's easy to watch. You have to really understand American football and baseball to enjoy them. They're complicated games with rules and tactics which have to be mastered before you can understand what's going on. In soccer the rules are simple, so anyone can enjoy it.
But really, I know it's more than that. There are millions of people who are just rabid about the game. I'd just like to know what they're rabid about.
And for a game that's so dependent on penalty kicks, the ref's calls seem terribly arbitrary and often just downright wrong, but no one seems to complain too vehemently as far as I could tell. To me, it gives the whole game a kind of pointlessness. All this going up and down the field and ball handling, and then someone trips and the ref awards a free kick and that determines who wins the game.
It occurs to me that maybe soccer games are more like exhibitions or shows than they are competitive contests, but then that's what I'm trying to find out here.
I remember watching an Italian baseball game once on TV, and after a while it occurred to me that they weren't playing the game to win so much as they were playing it to look good on the field and put on a show. Every play was ultra-dramatic with bodies flying around and guys falling down in agony--part sport and part theater--and this was baseball, hardly the most dramatic sport in the world. The players looked great; the play was mediocre. I've wondered if maybe the same thing applies somewhat to soccer?
The other possibility I've heard discussed is that there really isn't much more to the game than what we see on TV, which is what makes it so popular: it's easy to watch. You have to really understand American football and baseball to enjoy them. They're complicated games with rules and tactics which have to be mastered before you can understand what's going on. In soccer the rules are simple, so anyone can enjoy it.
But really, I know it's more than that. There are millions of people who are just rabid about the game. I'd just like to know what they're rabid about.
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It's core appeal is tribal - same as any sport - progressing through school/club/nation.
Formation dicates tactics:
Goalkeeper - fixed
Defence - usually 4 sometimes 3 rarely 5
Midfield - 3, 4 or 5
Forwards - 2, sometimes 1 when the manager is afraid of losing so packs the midfield with 5 players allowing one to float forward to join the attacking player. Rarely 3.
Controlling the midfield used to dictate the flow of the game, players could break down the left or right flanks and centre the ball for the forwards to try to score.
Defenders have become so tall and powerful that securing the ball in a goal scoring position has become difficult. If you saw Portugals goal against Germany, classic ball in from the right flank scored by a diving header by a player advancing into the goalscoring area.
Most goals are either scored in modern football by 'set piece' plays, a ball delivered from a corner of free kick near the goal area on to a target striker, or by rogue long distance strikes where the ball curves in flight to deceive the goalkeeper, or the goalkeeper is unsighted by other players in the penalty area or the ball is deflected into the goal by a player of either team.
Playing the long distance ball to a lone forward (England's tactic) is almost a worthless exercise: defenders have become atheletes (this wasn't always the case) and the dreaded 'Offside' rule. The offside rule is essentially there to stop the long ball being punted down the field to a lone forward (someone forgot to tell England).
I think they should do away with free kicks for foul tackles, play should continue, let them kick the hell out of each other, it would soon stop. Let the medical staff on the filed to attend injuries with the play continuing - 'injured' players would get up a lot quicker. Shirts should be made of paper to stop all this stupid tugging at opposing players - a player should not be allowed to play with a torn shirt but should spend five minutes on the side line before being allowed back on the field in fresh paper. The tugging would stop almost instantly. Finally, penalty shoot-outs should be banned, instead they should aim at an undefended spot five times the diameter of the ball, might teach everyone to kick more accurately and is no more stupid that guessing which way the kicker will kick.
Formation dicates tactics:
Goalkeeper - fixed
Defence - usually 4 sometimes 3 rarely 5
Midfield - 3, 4 or 5
Forwards - 2, sometimes 1 when the manager is afraid of losing so packs the midfield with 5 players allowing one to float forward to join the attacking player. Rarely 3.
Controlling the midfield used to dictate the flow of the game, players could break down the left or right flanks and centre the ball for the forwards to try to score.
Defenders have become so tall and powerful that securing the ball in a goal scoring position has become difficult. If you saw Portugals goal against Germany, classic ball in from the right flank scored by a diving header by a player advancing into the goalscoring area.
Most goals are either scored in modern football by 'set piece' plays, a ball delivered from a corner of free kick near the goal area on to a target striker, or by rogue long distance strikes where the ball curves in flight to deceive the goalkeeper, or the goalkeeper is unsighted by other players in the penalty area or the ball is deflected into the goal by a player of either team.
Playing the long distance ball to a lone forward (England's tactic) is almost a worthless exercise: defenders have become atheletes (this wasn't always the case) and the dreaded 'Offside' rule. The offside rule is essentially there to stop the long ball being punted down the field to a lone forward (someone forgot to tell England).
I think they should do away with free kicks for foul tackles, play should continue, let them kick the hell out of each other, it would soon stop. Let the medical staff on the filed to attend injuries with the play continuing - 'injured' players would get up a lot quicker. Shirts should be made of paper to stop all this stupid tugging at opposing players - a player should not be allowed to play with a torn shirt but should spend five minutes on the side line before being allowed back on the field in fresh paper. The tugging would stop almost instantly. Finally, penalty shoot-outs should be banned, instead they should aim at an undefended spot five times the diameter of the ball, might teach everyone to kick more accurately and is no more stupid that guessing which way the kicker will kick.
Liar
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Zoot, I'm kind of stupified that you say you understand ice hockey, but not football. When it comes to strategy, game structure and, as you call it, setting up "plays", they are quite similar, and the difference in tempo and style is mostly due to the physical limitations of the field.
What I love about both sports is that they allow for an endlessly varied drama, where many different factors can win the game. One man's artistry, or a battle of wits and character strength in the midfield, or the best follow-through of tactics, or the ability to think outside the box when in attacking mode. It's lika that box of chocolate, u nevah know wut u gunna git. You can collect your troops and arrange a set up play, if you want to, and sometimes that is the best tactics, other times the best tactic is to turn the play over fast and surprise the pants off the opponent's defense. Wanna be a roman legion, or a ninja? In football (soccer...sigh), you need to be able to be both and every player needs to have the eye for making that call in a split second.
It's not like american football (the way I precieve it, and I've wtched a bit of it), which is a game for coaches, that arrange beefy chess pieces on a board and unleash them at each other. The individual player can have short bursts of inspiration and make an irrational move, but the game itself is designed to take him down.
What I love about both sports is that they allow for an endlessly varied drama, where many different factors can win the game. One man's artistry, or a battle of wits and character strength in the midfield, or the best follow-through of tactics, or the ability to think outside the box when in attacking mode. It's lika that box of chocolate, u nevah know wut u gunna git. You can collect your troops and arrange a set up play, if you want to, and sometimes that is the best tactics, other times the best tactic is to turn the play over fast and surprise the pants off the opponent's defense. Wanna be a roman legion, or a ninja? In football (soccer...sigh), you need to be able to be both and every player needs to have the eye for making that call in a split second.
It's not like american football (the way I precieve it, and I've wtched a bit of it), which is a game for coaches, that arrange beefy chess pieces on a board and unleash them at each other. The individual player can have short bursts of inspiration and make an irrational move, but the game itself is designed to take him down.
ishtat
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The Ball
It's fair to say that the quality of football in this World Cup rarely achieved great heights. Part of that can be attributed to FIFA's decision to use a new slightly lighter ball which swings a lot and was supposed to lead to more goals.
I coach a minor semi professional team and we practiced last week with two of these new balls. They are significantly more difficult than the orthodox balls to control and it is particularly difficult to keep the ball from curving sharply upwards in flight.The sweet spot for shooting, corners, goal kicks, and penalties is an inch or two higher than normal.The ball itself makes any long ball play a virtual lottery.
Not a smart move but typical FIFA.
It's fair to say that the quality of football in this World Cup rarely achieved great heights. Part of that can be attributed to FIFA's decision to use a new slightly lighter ball which swings a lot and was supposed to lead to more goals.
I coach a minor semi professional team and we practiced last week with two of these new balls. They are significantly more difficult than the orthodox balls to control and it is particularly difficult to keep the ball from curving sharply upwards in flight.The sweet spot for shooting, corners, goal kicks, and penalties is an inch or two higher than normal.The ball itself makes any long ball play a virtual lottery.
Not a smart move but typical FIFA.
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