Working on husband/wife sexual differences...

[footlongish]

My wife and I have marital problems in the bedroom. Instead of splitting up, she wants to work on things.

Basically, she has problems being intimate and close during sex. She initiates sex once in a while but she is always complaining during it. I don't think the complaints are real, I think she does it to distance herself, like she has problems giving and receiving pleasure.

She frequently has orgasms. She is very picky about what we can do. She makes excuses and is generally very hesitant. She sucks me off once in a while, but I have to ask and there is usually a two way guilt trip involved. She doesn't mind the taste of cum though.

She likes sex in the missionary position. I do all the work, initiation, foreplay, pumping. She enjoys it but doesn't share it with me. I never get thanked for doing a good job. Its like she withholds all the time.

She won't say "fuck me". Too much lube is bad. She doesn't like french kissing. She doesn't initiate. She doesn't know what position she wants, but if I suggest one, its the wrong one. We rarely have sex twice in a row.

She is very picky about when we have sex. There is no such thing as spontaneity. Everything else (work, housework, friends, activities, etc.) take precedence over closeness in general and sex.

I used to think we had problems outside of the bedroom and that the sex was affected. After doing some reading, I think the bedroom problems are causing some of the problems outside.

I shut down sexually about 9 months ago. It was just so frustrating that I said no more. There was no such thing as a satisfying sexual experience with her. It was either cold or there was a lot of complaining or no gratification. So I just refused to have sex entirely.

We had a big talk the other day and she wants to work on it. So how should I approach the situation ? I want more sex and I want it hot. I need closeness and intimacy. I want HER to want it to. I don't want to force the issue. What do I do ?

 

[Guest]

 

[footlongish]

What do you mean by professional help ? A sex counselor ? I just can't fathom the two of us sitting in a room telling a stranger about our sexual activities. Its just so embarrassing and cold. Isn't there a way we can work this out together, ourselves ?

I was thinking of something like going into the bedroom and getting naked and talking a lot about what she/I feel as we do various things. I think she has a guilt block or something that prevents her from expressing. I dunno, I'm not a therapist.

I hate the idea of using a sex therapist.

It hurts me that she doesn't have sexual desire for me naturally, like without a therapist.

 

[footlongish]

I'd love to hear from a woman on this subject, someone that was shall we say, reserved, about to sex and changed to be more open. What kept you from giving in the first place ? How did the transition happen and why ? What did your partner do to help you ?

Thanks.

 

[Mazuri]

I'm female and will weigh in but my first thought was: how did you ever get married in the first place? It was quickly followed by the same as Scalywag's....there's too much here to tackle alone, you need a mediator trained in dealing with these sorts of issues.

Basically, she has problems being intimate and close during sex. She initiates sex once in a while but she is always complaining during it. I don't think the complaints are real, I think she does it to distance herself, like she has problems giving and receiving pleasure.

Someone who only initiates sex once in a while isn't that big an issue. I'm usually the initiator in my bedroom, though my husband is improving. Find out why they don't initiate sex...could be anything from wanting to let you rest if you've come home complaining of a hard/bad day to being tired themselves to simply wanting to be the pounced and not the pouncer.

However...the fact that she complains during sex is a huge issue. Don't automatically discount the complaints. Listen to her. She may think she's telling you something that you're not hearing...I know I always wondered why my husband didn't act on certain cues before I realized he wasn't receiving the same signals I was sending.

Why do you think she's deliberately distancing herself from you? What does she do?

She sucks me off once in a while, but I have to ask and there is usually a two way guilt trip involved. She doesn't mind the taste of cum though.

If you have to ask after she knows you enjoy it, then she doesn't enjoy it. Period. I know because I was there and not too long ago. I'd do it because my husband loved it, but I didn't like doing it so would only agree if he brought it up. Just because she swallows doesn't mean she doesn't mind the taste. It would appear she's doing this for you because you asked her to. If she sees sex as a duty to be performed, this is simply another duty and she's trying to do a good job of it.

She won't say "fuck me". Too much lube is bad. She doesn't like french kissing. She doesn't initiate. She doesn't know what position she wants, but if I suggest one, its the wrong one. We rarely have sex twice in a row.

I won't say that either, as it is both not how I was raised and is not a turn on for me nor my husband. Not everyone likes vulgar talk in the bedroom. She may be one of them.

Why is too much lube bad? Have you asked her why? Does it sting (allergic reaction?)? Does she not like the mess (have a friend who's phobic of bodily fluids) which she will have to clean up? Does she not like the smell or the texture? Is it cold? Knowing why will help.

Has she always disliked kissing, even when you dated? If so, why'd you think it would change? If not, was there something that might have triggered this?

She is very picky about when we have sex. There is no such thing as spontaneity. Everything else (work, housework, friends, activities, etc.) take precedence over closeness in general and sex.

Responsibilities are important, especially work, but if she's the type who must have her days planned and charted to the minute, then make sure there is time every day pencilled into her calendar for just the two of you. Cell phones are turned off, answering machines turned on, doorbells are not answered. Spontaneous? No. But you are making an effort to set aside time for just the two of you. Crawl, before you walk.

Some people find security in scheduling everything. Change scares them. Something outside the norm scares them. Spontaneity scares them. Find out if she's one of these people. Only way to do that...ask her.

I used to think we had problems outside of the bedroom and that the sex was affected.

You DO have problems outside the bedroom. The lack of intimacy of any kind (do you hold hands, snuggle, cuddle, hug, kiss, etc?), the near hostility in the bedroom, the unwillingness to throw aside others for the two of you suggest that there is something very wrong here and the bedroom is just one part affected by it. You need to put the focus where it belongs, on the marriage and not on the sex.

I shut down sexually about 9 months ago. It was just so frustrating that I said no more. There was no such thing as a satisfying sexual experience with her. It was either cold or there was a lot of complaining or no gratification. So I just refused to have sex entirely.

How did this affect her? Did she complain, rejoice, accept, not care? 9 months is a LOT of time. It should have had some affect, even if it wasn't the one you wanted to see.

We had a big talk the other day and she wants to work on it. So how should I approach the situation ? I want more sex and I want it hot. I need closeness and intimacy. I want HER to want it to. I don't want to force the issue. What do I do ?

One...I wouldn't bring sex up at all at this stage and especially not in a confrontational manner (why don't you like sex?). It will merely put her on the defensive and undo any gains you've made up to this point. If she wants to work on it, then start by identifying when the issues started. Not just the lack of sex, but lack of intimacy...friendship if you will. Pinpoint how long ago you stopped doing those small things for each other...holding hands in the car, a light caress as you pass in the hall...those kinds of things. Talk about your childhood...find out if anything happened in her past that pushes her to close up (abuse, molestation, rape). Most of all...be supportive and realize this won't happen in a day, a weekend, a month, or even a year.

I still recommend a therapist and soon. Good luck.

 

[silverwhisper]

i suspect scalywag was referring more to a therapist or marriage counselor, not a sex therapist.

ed

 

[Guest]

 

[SweetErika]

Re-read you post, Foot.

In order for a couple to work on it, there has to be something to work on.

You've been complaining about a multitude of problems, some inside, but mostly outside of the bedroom, since you got here. Those problems include a complete lack of positive communication, interaction, conflict resolution, intimacy, her putting you down and shutting you out all the time, sex...the list goes on and on and on. Counseling has been tried multiple times and hasn't helped at all, according to you. Last week you were separating/leaving, and seemed to be feeling good about it.

Now, of course we're only hearing one side of it, but if a portion of what you've been telling us here is true and you're that unhappy, the relationship is doomed, IMNSHO. Working on the sex isn't going to help because the foundation of your relationship --friendship-- just isn't there.

I'm a huge advocate for working it out, and am not a quitter myself. But sometimes there's nothing to save, and moving on is the best way to go. Why bail water on a sinking ship, when you can jump and swim away to safety (even if jumping is scarier at first)?

Deep down, do YOU want to be in a romantic relationship with this woman (the one she is now, not the one you married or hope she'll morph into)? Would that make you happier than anything else? Is your whole heart and mind behind trying to make it work? Do you truly believe that can and WILL happen?

 

[SweetErika]

Just a smattering of what I was referring to in my post. I hope you find happiness either way, but I can't help but be curious as to what seemed to have turned your opinion around completely in such a short time.

My wife is so stupid. One minute begging me not to leave and the next minute chewing my ass out. How can she not see why I want to leave ?

Great of you guys to say don't cheat and good for me for not cheating. But when was the last time someone held you in their arms and said something good about you ? Yeah, I thought so.

I'm mad because I deserve so much better than this.

We are going through the break up. I haven't moved out yet. Still working through the details. It IS going to happen, and soon. There is a child involved and such. I'm counting the days. And I don't want it ever said that I cheated and that is what broke it up. So out of respect, I have not cheated. But, like you said, I will soon be on my own and then it won't be cheating. Or do I have to wait a while ? Is there some unwritten rule ?

I'm in the process of getting single. Fun times ahead...

 

[footlongish]

I'm female and will weigh in but my first thought was: how did you ever get married in the first place?

THANKS FOR REPLYING ! You have no idea how helpful this is to discuss with somebody.

Why did we get married ? Because everything else worked. There were sex issues when we were dating, but I thought they would work themselves out. I had been in a couple good relationships before and I didn't realize that couples could really have trouble in the bedroom. I was naive.

My wife is Catholic and she was living at home at the time too. We didn't spend a lot of time dating and there wasn't much time for sex, although we did have it. Whether the lack of time was real or fabricated is up for debate.

It was quickly followed by the same as Scalywag's....there's too much here to tackle alone, you need a mediator trained in dealing with these sorts of issues.

I will reiterate my YUCK ! statement. And now I will open the phone book and start looking for help.

Quote:
Basically, she has problems being intimate and close during sex. She initiates sex once in a while but she is always complaining during it. I don't think the complaints are real, I think she does it to distance herself, like she has problems giving and receiving pleasure.

Someone who only initiates sex once in a while isn't that big an issue. I'm usually the initiator in my bedroom, though my husband is improving. Find out why they don't initiate sex...could be anything from wanting to let you rest if you've come home complaining of a hard/bad day to being tired themselves to simply wanting to be the pounced and not the pouncer.

I guess you are right that not being the initiator isn't that bad. But it doesn't make me feel desireable either. Some of my ex's used to jump me regularly. It felt good to be desired.

However...the fact that she complains during sex is a huge issue. Don't automatically discount the complaints. Listen to her. She may think she's telling you something that you're not hearing...I know I always wondered why my husband didn't act on certain cues before I realized he wasn't receiving the same signals I was sending.

I'll turn up the volume on my receiver. I'll ask more questions. But I'm pretty sure its pleasureable for her. "Its too fast. Its too slow. She can't feel it. Its too deep. Its not doing anything for her." 2 minutes later she has an orgasm. I think its just complaining. I think its like she doesn't want to say "Wow this feels great, your a great lover, I love you". I think its a defense mechanism.

Why do you think she's deliberately distancing herself from you? What does she do?

Example: she is doing something in the kitchen. I come up behind her and nuzzle and caress and say nice things. Her nipples get hard. She is too busy or something HAS TO BE done, so later, honey. We have never had a spontaneous encounter.

Example: She says lets have sex. I agree. I go into the bedroom and undress and get into bed. She goes into the bathroom and undoes her makeup and feeds the cat and checks her list of things to do and... you get the picture. 45 minutes later she meanders into the bedroom talking about when we need to change oil in the car and how the neighbors are doing.

Example: We agree we want sex. I get in bed and undress. She gets in bed and undresses. We both sit there. She says "What do you want ?" And then we play the game of trying to decide what SHE really wants. But if you ask her she doesn't know or won't say. And notice the lack of foreplay.

Example: we have sex and I give her a big orgasm. I can tell its good because of her reaction. I have to ask how good it was ( 8 or 9) and she won't readily tell me.

Quote:
She sucks me off once in a while, but I have to ask and there is usually a two way guilt trip involved. She doesn't mind the taste of cum though.

If you have to ask after she knows you enjoy it, then she doesn't enjoy it. Period. I know because I was there and not too long ago. I'd do it because my husband loved it, but I didn't like doing it so would only agree if he brought it up. Just because she swallows doesn't mean she doesn't mind the taste. It would appear she's doing this for you because you asked her to. If she sees sex as a duty to be performed, this is simply another duty and she's trying to do a good job of it.

I was discussing cock sucking with her yesterday and she said sometimes she really likes it. I usually finger her to an orgasm while she is doing it and its really hot. For both of us. But there is always this reluctance to do it. Like its taboo or something.

I don't mean to keep saying that she has an orgasm... but she does. I don't make it a goal or anything, but I try to make it enjoyable for her. I'm a giver. I'm not focusing on the orgasm, they are just happening.

Did I mention that she doesn't like it when I lick her pussy ? Oh yeah, she orgasms then too.

And when we have a sexy shower together she spends a lot of time cleaning her bits, like really scrubbing.

I don't want to seem boorish or anything, but I've been in these sexual situations with other women and their reactions are different. I realize you can't compare people and everyone is different, but its hard for me to be interested in having sex with my wife when it isn't a happy close experience. I get frustrated with fighting the emotional block all the time.

Quote:
She won't say "fuck me". Too much lube is bad. She doesn't like french kissing. She doesn't initiate. She doesn't know what position she wants, but if I suggest one, its the wrong one. We rarely have sex twice in a row.

I won't say that either, as it is both not how I was raised and is not a turn on for me nor my husband. Not everyone likes vulgar talk in the bedroom. She may be one of them.

She doesn't really invite me to make love to her either. Its more like "are we going to do this ?" I'm not much for vulgar talk either. But I like to be invited to make love to a woman.

Why is too much lube bad? Have you asked her why? Does it sting (allergic reaction?)? Does she not like the mess (have a friend who's phobic of bodily fluids) which she will have to clean up? Does she not like the smell or the texture? Is it cold? Knowing why will help.

Its the mess thing. Shes phobic about being clean, I think. She keeps a cloth handy when she sucks me and if my shaft gets too wet, she wipes it off. I think that is what she doesn't like about having her clit licked. It gets too wet and messy. I love it !

Has she always disliked kissing, even when you dated? If so, why'd you think it would change? If not, was there something that might have triggered this?

Yeah, she hated it back then. I thought it was a Catholic girl guilt thing. I thought the married part would remove the guilt and things would loosen up.

She is very picky about when we have sex. There is no such thing as spontaneity. Everything else (work, housework, friends, activities, etc.) take precedence over closeness in general and sex.

Responsibilities are important, especially work, but if she's the type who must have her days planned and charted to the minute, then make sure there is time every day pencilled into her calendar for just the two of you. Cell phones are turned off, answering machines turned on, doorbells are not answered. Spontaneous? No. But you are making an effort to set aside time for just the two of you. Crawl, before you walk.

She works 37 hours a week. Not a pressure job either. Until a bit ago, we had no kids. The house is spotless. The bills are paid. Planned time ? Yep... Saturday night, if we don't go out. Like clockwork, at 11PM she wants sex.

I used to think we had problems outside of the bedroom and that the sex was affected.

You DO have problems outside the bedroom. The lack of intimacy of any kind (do you hold hands, snuggle, cuddle, hug, kiss, etc?), the near hostility in the bedroom, the unwillingness to throw aside others for the two of you suggest that there is something very wrong here and the bedroom is just one part affected by it. You need to put the focus where it belongs, on the marriage and not on the sex.

I've gone through Gottman and we have the 4 horseman part of the problem, starting with the criticism of me. She criticizes me like crazy. We've now gone into that together and there isn't a reason for it. I treat her well, very well. Like my best friend.

I think my wife was criticized a lot growing up. I know her parents were hard on her. And I think that she has a hard time being open and trusting with someone close to her. Her sister and her fought like hell.

I shut down sexually about 9 months ago. It was just so frustrating that I said no more. There was no such thing as a satisfying sexual experience with her. It was either cold or there was a lot of complaining or no gratification. So I just refused to have sex entirely.

How did this affect her? Did she complain, rejoice, accept, not care? 9 months is a LOT of time. It should have had some affect, even if it wasn't the one you wanted to see.

She complained twice, briefly. She said that I never touched her anymore. I didn't say much. I don't enjoy touching her when all it leads to is negative thoughts for me.

This is such a switch for me. I used to have sex swinging from the chandeliers with my exs. I don't mean to brag, but they used to tell their friends how good I was. And it wasn't just physical, I used to be real tender with them and treat them well. They loved me ! And now my wife hates me.

Quote:
We had a big talk the other day and she wants to work on it. So how should I approach the situation ? I want more sex and I want it hot. I need closeness and intimacy. I want HER to want it to. I don't want to force the issue. What do I do ?

One...I wouldn't bring sex up at all at this stage and especially not in a confrontational manner (why don't you like sex?). It will merely put her on the defensive and undo any gains you've made up to this point. If she wants to work on it, then start by identifying when the issues started. Not just the lack of sex, but lack of intimacy...friendship if you will. Pinpoint how long ago you stopped doing those small things for each other...holding hands in the car, a light caress as you pass in the hall...those kinds of things. Talk about your childhood...find out if anything happened in her past that pushes her to close up (abuse, molestation, rape).

That is a good idea. I think the roots of this problem are in her background somewhere.

Most of all...be supportive and realize this won't happen in a day, a weekend, a month, or even a year.

I'll do my best. This has gone on for a long time. I've swept it under the rug. I've tried to live without sex and closeness.

I still recommend a therapist and soon. Good luck.

I still hate the thought of that.

 

[M's girl]

Well now.................

I was going to suggest something that had not been suggested before, and then I read Erika's last post. Hmmmmm.... I do wonder how the hell she stores all this information (you would be a far better moderator than I am Erika )

Not that this needs to be moderated. Footlongish, if you are serious about your question in this thread I guess you have the right to change your mind about things, but it looks a bit funny, looking at the other posts you made.

The first thing that came to my mind was that there may be a possibility she was sexually abused? Because people who are don't necessary shy away from sex all together but mostly will have huge emotional issues about it in one way or another. Could this idea be something that has any merit you think?

Even if it's not, reading all the posts so far, including Erika's, I'm saying that you need help. This is far beyond the stage where you can figure things out together. But do make up your mind first if working things out with her is really the thing you want to persue....

I wish you wisdom in making your decision!

 

[footlongish]

Just a smattering of what I was referring to in my post. I hope you find happiness either way, but I can't help but be curious as to what seemed to have turned your opinion around completely in such a short time.

We had a talk about me leaving. She doesn't want me to. We've been together for 14 years and I love her. She really wants to work on things. She gave me a beautiful son. She is a great mother. She is hot, I love her body. I love giving her orgasms.

We have the best friend thing going. We have a lot of mutual interests and we have fun together.

I am not going to let her walk over me. I won't stay if we can't work it out.

I have hope because of the Gottman book, right or wrong. For once I understand what is going on. It takes 3 things to make a marriage work. 1) Be best friends. We have that. 2) The emotional/intimacy thing. We have problems there. 3) The ability to resolve conflict without creating scars. We have trouble here, but the more I think about it, if we had the intimacy and sex thing work, we would be able to heal some of those scars. We aren't fighting about big things, just everyday things, like how to load the dishwasher, etc. Those scars aren't getting healed.

 

[footlongish]

This is a great, discussion, btw. And someone PM'd me stating that she was just like my wife not so long ago and she will share with me what was going on for her. It all helps. Thanks.

 

[Ezzy]

The first thing that came to my mind was that there may be a possibility she was sexually abused? Because people who are don't necessary shy away from sex all together but mostly will have huge emotional issues about it in one way or another.

And Catholic guilt too!

Even if it's not, reading all the posts so far, including Erika's, I'm saying that you need help. This is far beyond the stage where you can figure things out together. But do make up your mind first if working things out with her is really the thing you want to persue....

And Erika said the main way out of this too...Communication, communication, communication, men and women constantly fail to communicate, especially when they think they are communicating, gentle hints don’t work, subtle hints don’t work, being hit over the head with a big heavy hint doesn’t work, but talking openly and honestly can blow the cobwebs out of any relationship.

I also think scaly and the other who have talked about counseling are right but I feel you need an impartial witness to adjudicate between you, as the sorts of things you are talking about can get acrimonious quickly when there is accusatory details being put out by both sides.

I also wonder if she is not either bipolar or has a borderline personality disorder, along with Catholic guilt, you may want to offer someone for her to talk to other than her priest?

 

[footlongish]

"but it looks a bit funny, looking at the other posts you made."

Did you find the post where I said I am all screwed up ? Its true ! I don't lie !

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=451454

I've taken quite a beating in this relationship. And I am fed up. And I am considering my options. But by far the best outcome would be for her and I to make this work. I'm hoping that we can achieve a breakthrough.

Keep posting people, it all helps.

 

[footlongish]

"also wonder if she is not either bipolar or has a borderline personality disorder"

No, she is pretty stable. Blows her lid once in a while, but otherwise pretty easy to read.

"along with Catholic guilt, you may want to offer someone for her to talk to other than her priest?"

Any suggestions ?

Lets say it is a Catholic guilt thing. What would I do as a husband to help her realize or express or deal with that ?

 

[footlongish]

2 other things that might help

1) My wife asks me to change the channel or she complains if we are watching a movie that has blatant sexuality in it. Not even porn stuff, just heavy breathing and body parts in a dark room.

2) There is always a power play about giving affection. If I'm doing something and I say "Give me a kiss" she says "If you want a kiss, come and get it." and not in a fun way, like she is serious.

 

[M's girl]

And Erika said the main way out of this too...Communication, communication, communication, men and women constantly fail to communicate, especially when they think they are communicating, gentle hints don’t work, subtle hints don’t work, being hit over the head with a big heavy hint doesn’t work, but talking openly and honestly can blow the cobwebs out of any relationship.

Oh, but I agree 100%! It's just that I was a bit surprised about some quotes that I saw as a contradiction of what he really wanted. And when you say things like "she's such a stupid bitch" (or something like that) I 'hear' contempt and bitterness. Together with all else I'm just saying that communication between the two of them might be a station somewhat passed and they need help from outside, besides trying to keep/make communication open between them.

 

[footlongish]

Quote: I 'hear' contempt and bitterness.

There is contempt and bitterness sometimes. Yeah. There is pain here. This has been going on for a while. I didn't say that to her. I was venting to the board. Was I thinking it ? Yep. Was I frustrated ? You betchya ! Am I perfect ? Nope. Am I bad ? I'm trying my best not to be.

This is a real life situation.

We went through the Gottman book the other day and the criticism stopped. I don't know if that is permanent and I'm sure there will be a relapse, but I think she sees that was part of the problem.

 

[Ezzy]

"also wonder if she is not either bipolar or has a borderline personality disorder"

No, she is pretty stable. Blows her lid once in a while, but otherwise pretty easy to read.

Then you probably won't need a psychiatrist.

"along with Catholic guilt, you may want to offer someone for her to talk to other than her priest?"

Any suggestions ?

A family or marriage councilor, or for quicker work a good psychologist (you can ask for a referal from your doctor or at least if your doctor will recommend one to you), don't expect 1 visit to cure anything, it may take 5, 10, 20 or more before there is a break through.

Lets say it is a Catholic guilt thing. What would I do as a husband to help her realize or express or deal with that ?

Communicate with her, talk to her fully clothed (less stress) on a Saturday night when you don't go out, try and stay calm and clear and non-accusatory or it will all end in tears. Write your thoughts done and ask her to read them all before asking any questions, be willing to talk until there is two way communication about your life not just your sex life.

It sounds like you still care for her and want her to care for you, thank your lucky stars you have decided to take some action, before the marriage is totally down the drain.

 

[M's girl]

There is contempt and bitterness sometimes. Yeah. There is pain here. This has been going on for a while. I didn't say that to her. I was venting to the board. Was I thinking it ? Yep. Was I frustrated ? You betchya ! Am I perfect ? Nope. Am I bad ? I'm trying my best not to be.

This is a real life situation.

Oh, and I so do understand that! I do. That's why I also said you 'had the right to change your mind'. I also meant with that, that I realized you were probably venting at the time. People do that. But that does not mean those feelings are not there. It's wise to figure out what you really want for yourself first, that's all...

Good luck, the first steps in the right direction seem to be there. Bon courage!

 

[silverwhisper]

footlongish: i hate to say this, but i can't help wondering if maybe there's been some kind of traumatic experience that's affecting her reactions. it's honestly the first thing that leapt to mind from your first post.

ed

 

[NaughtyLil1]

I'm confused. Didn't you post earlier that you were leaving? Are you reconsidering?

 

[SweetErika]

Bon courage!

I don't know if 'bon courage' is a real French expression or not, but I've never heard it before and LOVE it!

 

[M's girl]

I don't know if 'bon courage' is a real French expression or not, but I've never heard it before and LOVE it!

They use that to say "good luck", so yes, it's real French