Workarounds

[EmilyMiller]

So, in my current work-in-progress, I’d intentionally set myself the task of writing gay male sex. Why? Clearly because I’m a masochist an author who wants to push boundaries. It’s only one chapter out of ten, but anyway. And it’s a crucial plot element and if I don’t do it, I’ll have to restructure other bits. So - you can do it Emily - be brave.

Then I get to Chapter 7 and I’m a rabbit in headlights. I know the mechanics might be the same, or similar, but the emotion, the mental state. I’m a bit lost.

So I stall. I write other stuff.

Then, I make a joking comment to a friend about one of the two FMCs possessing a supporting MC. And I’m off. It’s fun again. It’s a supernatural tale BTW.

I’m now happily, fluently writing again . Totally happy with the concept of a woman inhabiting a male body to seduce a gay guy, for reasons.

It feels like a cop out, but I’m so much happier.

Have you done anything comparable?

Em

 

[SimonDoom]

Good for you. I hope to write gay male and lesbian sex stories at some point but haven't gotten to them yet.

 

[AlinaX]

You mean like one guy dressing up like a girl so that everyone can pretend it's not really gay sex? Because, yeah.

 

[Altissimus]

So at the risk of simplifying, it sounds like you found a way of getting into your character so you could write that character in a way that appealed to you. I think essentially this is the mark of a decent character - IME it certainly feels more real to the reader. However this comes about is an intimate secret known only to the author and their character (AH threads aside), but I think the reader can tell. The female-in-a-male-body-possession was just that vehicle, one that, feasibly, you as the author could imagine again should you need to do this outside of a supernatural tale.

I've written quite a lot of female first person POV stories, which I guess is a bit odd seeing as how I'm not a woman. But that's what the story called for, so hey, that's what I did. So long as you can embrace your character everything's ok, right?

 

[EmilyMiller]

Good for you. I hope to write gay male and lesbian sex stories at some point but haven't gotten to them yet.

I’ve had people tell me I should be comfortable with gay male sex as I enjoy anal. It feels rather different. As I [falteringly] understand it, GMS is not just anal and indeed anal may not be a big part of some gay male relationships.

I could write it as lesbians with cocks, but that feels like Futanari (which I have written). It’s a fantasy piece (d’oh!) but I don’t want to write GMS which is laughable to gay guys.

My workaround gives me some wiggle room, but I know I’m being a coward really.

Em

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Hm...
Nah, I just write the gay sex. If I've managed to write a character, that character gets sex, the sex is the easy part.

Ideally I'd get my partners to pose, to assist with description, but they refuse. Most unreasonable!

 

[MrPixel]

Similar, tho' not gay. Possibly lez, now that I think about it.

In the next installment of my Off Campus series (in the can, ready to upload), it becomes clearer that the MMC's "spirit guide" in the form of a talisman statue - a life-cast bronze of his primary lover - gets its jollies through him by procuring ladies for him to bed. It bursts into flames in its own orgasm during one particularly hot (no pun!) MFFF foursome.

 

[Altissimus]

I’ve had people tell me I should be comfortable with gay male sex as I enjoy anal. It feels rather different. As I [falteringly] understand it, GMS is not just anal and indeed anal may not be a big part of some gay male relationships.

I could write it as lesbians with cocks, but that feels like Futanari (which I have written). It’s a fantasy piece (d’oh!) but I don’t want to write GMS which is laughable to gay guys.

My workaround gives me some wiggle room, but I know I’m being a coward really.

Em

Yeah... I don't get this, tbh. I've written lesbian sex (and since declaring myself as male above, nothing has changed). All sex is more than 'tab A into slot B' and if you can write sex, you can write any sex - it's not a question of whether you can do it, but whether you can make it believable and convincing. The formula for that remains the same: concentrate on the characters, the emotions, sensations, dynamic between them, the sexual tension, the allure. In light of that, does it matter who or what the perpetrators are?

 

[Djmac1031]

Your choice makes sense to me, as I interpret it:

You need a male on male scene, but aren't comfortable with trying to write that viewpoint from a true gay male perspective.

So instead, a female consciousness inhabits the body of a willing male character to use that body in having sex with another man.

Now, you can write the sex scene, but still keep the perspective from your female characters point of view.

I think it's a smart and fun choice, given the fantasy scenario.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I think it's a smart and fun choice, given the fantasy scenario.

Wouldn’t work so well in gritty reality stories like At Whorey’s Pier, would it ?

Em

 

[Euphony]

but the emotion, the mental state. I’m a bit lost.

You reframed. Each of us has our best way when stall out occurs but we find a way.

Many authors get hung up on high level execution, especially areas out of their usual sphere (common excuses: positive representation, possible reader pushback, not being a "lived" experience.) Ok.

So much of the commonality of human affections is overlooked and it baffles me. We all get emotionally invested when a love interest matters to us (yes, assuming you are focusing on more than a raw sexual experience) so explore that. How do they change from their usual? Are they off kilter? Do life's everyday minor annoyances become big stumbling blocks b/c their mental resources are diverted to the beloved? Yes, there is nuance true experience offers that can be put to page but if good story is the bar, plenty can tell a hell of a tale without the granular negotiations and feelings that occur in a specific instance.

And readers generally reward earnest attempts. Maybe you get some "hey, you were a little off here" comments but that's to be expected as you are learning a new space. We write to fail... and from that failure, to learn.

To say nothing of how varied human beings are. We all get twitterpated in our own ways, often not even following the very same program our cortex ran for the last beloved. Experiences are very individualistic, beyond just the person but to the conditions at hand. A reader expecting a mirroring of how they'd act down to all the little emotional/spiritual/physical negotiations that might happen asks too much. I get it. Creation is hard, requires emotional and time investments. Easy to get trapped in the no-man's land between being a dedicated reader v. actual author. You need that level of personal authenticity/reflectivity, you gotta do the work. (see the Story Ideas forum for prime examples of people stuck in the in-between)

Shading focus less on how "authentic" the experience is to X demographic and how authentic it is for YOUR character will take you pretty far towards general acceptance.

However a writer gets to the "giving themselves permission to trip up" state is laudable. How many never even start the race?

Obviously my framing is above and just a "this worked for me." Yours worked well for you (and surely will for others) and maybe keep some other alternatives people use as backups for cases where your writer's brain ain't buying your usual strategy.

People are people. Widely spread across a spectrum yet inherently linked through the commonality of the human experience. I'd focus on less on nailing the sliver on the spectrum where a reader or readership (supposedly) resides and more on what makes us all the same.

My twitterpated ain't your twitterpated but I can absolutely see reflections of myself in other's that pluck my similar strings.

Everyone really just wants to get plucked.

It happens too rarely so specificity isn't as high a necessity as some would have you believe.

 

[EmilyMiller]

So, in my current work-in-progress, I’d intentionally set myself the task of writing gay male sex. Why? Clearly because I’m a masochist an author who wants to push boundaries. It’s only one chapter out of ten, but anyway. And it’s a crucial plot element and if I don’t do it, I’ll have to restructure other bits. So - you can do it Emily - be brave.

Then I get to Chapter 7 and I’m a rabbit in headlights. I know the mechanics might be the same, or similar, but the emotion, the mental state. I’m a bit lost.

So I stall. I write other stuff.

Then, I make a joking comment to a friend about one of the two FMCs possessing a supporting MC. And I’m off. It’s fun again. It’s a supernatural tale BTW.

I’m now happily, fluently writing again . Totally happy with the concept of a woman inhabiting a male body to seduce a gay guy, for reasons.

It feels like a cop out, but I’m so much happier.

Have you done anything comparable?

Em

An example of why this approach is super fun (it’s a she-demon narrating);

Being just over five foot tall normally, I found Tom’s body unwieldy at first. I’d enjoyed Aliens, though maybe I was rooting for the xenomorphs more than James Cameron intended. Today, I felt like Ripley in a power loader.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

So much of the commonality of human affections is overlooked and it baffles me. We all get emotionally invested when a love interest matters to us (yes, assuming you are focusing on more than a raw sexual experience) so explore that. How do they change from their usual? Are they off kilter? Do life's everyday minor annoyances become big stumbling blocks b/c their mental resources are diverted to the beloved? Yes, there is nuance true experience offers that can be put to page but if good story is the bar, plenty can tell a hell of a tale without the granular negotiations and feelings that occur in a specific instance.

I agree - and maybe I’d approach it in a different mindset in a more serious work.

But I need my she-demon co-protagonist to seduce a gay French chef (I know, I know) so she and her female angel lover can get the key to a room where occult ceremonies are performed involving the secret child of Satan (a woman) and an archangel, a girl they must rescue.

It’s character development is at the Raiders of the Lost Ark level .

Em

 

[SeraphNocturne]

I've written plenty of gay male stories and haven't ever found them too challenging. I suppose largely because I favor writing dominant men, and really it's not too far off from writing a hetero couple or a lesbian couple, depending on how you approach it. I love the romance angle for those sort of stories though. I don't tend to work with cop-outs, I like manly men, and that's a curious dynamic to apply especially if one of them is only curious and the other secure in his sexuality... but over all, well, if you understand the male mentality and have solid personalities for your characters its only a matter of getting over any personal humps you might have with writing erotic scenes. I've never found it too hard. Admittedly, I think most women tend to write more feminine natured men, and that can be super cute...

I had a whole 'yaoi' phase in my teens, so yeah, I've been way too invested in gay sex at curious intervals.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I had a whole 'yaoi' phase in my teens, so yeah, I've been way too invested in gay sex at curious intervals.

Maybe that’s what’s missing.

Em

 

[SeraphNocturne]

Maybe that’s what’s missing.

Em

I don't think you can ever go wrong with cutesy same sex romance in lovely art styles. If you're so inclined it might help you get into a better headspace if you're meaning to stretch your writing muscles.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I agree - and maybe I’d approach it in a different mindset in a more serious work.

But I need my she-demon co-protagonist to seduce a gay French chef (I know, I know) so she and her female angel lover can get the key to a room where occult ceremonies are performed involving the secret child of Satan (a woman) and an archangel, a girl they must rescue.

It’s character development is at the Raiders of the Lost Ark level .

Em

Did I mention the she-demon and female angel are posing as twins and have to wear maids’ uniforms?

Em

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Where is Tilan when you need him...

 

[Britva415]

Where is Tilan when you need him...

on ignore?

 

[Booleanean]

I don’t want to write GMS which is laughable to gay guys.

From what I've heard from GM friends talking about erotica, just steer clear of the self-lubricating assholes, and you're 90% of the way there.

If you want an extra cop-out strategy I've used: Two characters who are inexperienced and just trying stuff out for the first time will excuse some of your inexperience with the topic.

It can also really help to look up first hand accounts of descriptions of sex. I've found it helpful to read "what does sex feel like" articles for both sexes. There's such an amazing spectrum of experiences out there, that as long as you have a decent grasp on anatomy and practicality, you'll be doing better than a lot of other authors out there.

On the emotional side, I've seen descriptions by people I share a gender with that seem totally foreign, and seen opposite gender descriptions I identify with much more. Even if your character reads as more "female" just because you are and you're writing closer to your own experience, that doesn't mean that isn't a very similar experience to some men out there as well

 

[Mastered_again]

My workaround gives me some wiggle room, but I know I’m being a coward really.

Em

Cowardly would be not writing at all and rationalizing why you shouldn't.

(Advice from some who wouldn't, couldn't, shouldn't go there)

 

[Winter_Fare]

on ignore?

He flounced again. Deleted all his stories. Probably for the best, I didn't get the impression he was even enjoying trolling any more

 

[Djmac1031]

He flounced again. Deleted all his stories. Probably for the best, I didn't get the impression he was even enjoying trolling any more

I'll miss hi...

Sorry, couldn't keep a straight face for those three words.

 

[Djmac1031]

Wouldn’t work so well in gritty reality stories like At Whorey’s Pier, would it ?

Em

I just had the most bizarre thought about what it would be like to go down a water slide with a butt plug...

 

[AchtungNight]

My fallback is to keep certain characters’ sexuality vague but believable if I ever need to expand it further. If I ever do a gay male story, though, it probably won’t involve Celebrities. I owe a greater debt to my original gay characters Asher Stravjan and Baxter Page.