Woman on man rape in fiction

[Concretejungleman]

I am making a draft of a fantasy story in which the protagonist is a gay man and is on a quest to fight a vile dictator who has supernatural abilities. On the way he forms a relationship with a gorgeous soldier, but they are tragically separated and then he later befriends a young woman and they have a great mutual respect and she knows all about his relationship and his sexuality. Then the protagonist's life is endangered by the dark designs of the archvillain and she has to use a magical artefact to empower herself so as to save him, but using this device temporarily sends her into a manic state and she rapes him while he is still immobile. I had in mind images of the phenomena of Sleep Paralysis and Hypnogoga and wanted the scene to recall them. When suffering sleep paralysis, people can see dream figments resembling aliens or monsters while they are unable to move. In a bygone era when superstitions were different, many people dreamt about witches appearing and pouncing on them while they couldn't move. So the protagonist can see the distorted image of his friend, her appearance freakishly altered, with her faculty for reason gone, straddling him and shrieking at him.

I managed to get a gay man's opinion of this idea and he said that his skin crawled at the idea of a gay man being raped by a woman. I had not intended it that way. It's not at all supposed to evoke the vile "corrective rape" idea where e.g. lesbians get ganged raped by men who are bigoted deviants. I had expected it to evoke pathos for both characters. It is supposed to be traumatic for the protagonist, but it is also very distressing for his friend when her rational thinking is restored. She had not been in her right mind at the time! If she is very sorry indeed, I thought that would make it seem better. Although I suppose it should damage his faith in her. So everyone, does this sound like it evokes pathos or is it really not suitable? Thanks.

 

[Stella_Omega]

That would depend on how well you can handle the details.

 

[lovecraft68]

And if you can handle the flaming of a woman being portrayed as being the aggressor.

The men who enjoy rape fantasies have little genitalia as it is and a strong woman makes them shrink even more they are likely to be mad at you for going against how things should be.

 

[sr71plt]

And if you can handle the flaming of a woman being portrayed as being the aggressor.

The men who enjoy rape fantasies have little genitalia as it is and a strong woman makes them shrink even more they are likely to be mad at you for going against how things should be.

And you wouldn't condone it yourself, because rape is rape, right?

 

[Stella_Omega]

There is actually a fairly well-known trope for this scenario-- "Sex Pollen"

 

[Concretejungleman]

And you wouldn't condone it yourself, because rape is rape, right?

He has a perfectly good point. He is making fun of people with stereotypical mindsets. There are men on Earth who are so stupid that they won't even admit that male on male rape is possible even though male on male rape has been documented since Biblical times!

And many more people seem unable to grasp the concept of a female predator/ aggressor. Here in the UK, the law still states that only men can rape :\ So it is decades behind the times. I love women, but very few, if any, are pure innocent angels and it is perfectly possible for women who are not right in the head to be brutal.

 

[Concretejungleman]

There is actually a fairly well-known trope for this scenario-- "Sex Pollen"

Very clever! You know all there is to know about tropes. But I thought sex pollen situations were meant to have good resolutions, bringing characters together who were right for each other all along? Definitely not the outcome I had in mind.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Very clever! You know all there is to know about tropes. But I thought sex pollen situations were meant to have good resolutions, bringing characters together who were right for each other all along? Definitely not the outcome I had in mind.

Hmm. The trope is the trope, the assumptions are extra baggage, wouldn't you think? Although it was coined by people who have a stake in happy endings-- it certainly can be subverted.

 

[sr71plt]

He has a perfectly good point.

I was referring to a different sort of point actually.

And, as far as your story description, I don't see just from what you've written how the rape fits into the theme or plotline. If it's just a sex scene, I don't see why it would be included. But maybe there will be more to the story in that aspect than what I've read.

 

[PennLady]

SR has a good point. So your female character goes into a "manic state." Why does she then have to rape the guy? And if the "manic state" is some kind of sexual frenzy, still, why does she have to rape the guy? What does that add to your story, or how does it fit in?

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Well, shit. I've used sex pollen before.

A circle demon that could shape-shift, he could intoxicate humans with such lust that they would stay in the circle and fuck him until they died. A half-human outsmarted him by trading 3 hours for directions, food, and fire. Made him promise to let her out. In my version, only humans could say untruths. So the circle demon had to keep his word.

 

[Concretejungleman]

Admittedly the vignette doesn't make much sense out of context, but in context it does alter the whole course of the story. Obviously it is too shocking to be a mere side event. Further complications ensue with her becoming pregnant and the issues surrounding the pregnancy. This is also part of the old superstitions about sleep paralysis. Some men believed that it was caused by witches raping them in their sleep "to steal their children" - presumably by becoming pregnant in this way.

In the story it means that new issues arise about the emancipation of the protagonist and the fate of the child. The psychological issues arising are irresolvable, but to anticipate the story a little bit - they don't actually mean total estrangement. In real life, there are plenty of people who remain in abusive relationships of their own accord. I don't think this seems so different to that.

@Cruel2BKind - yes, that's a good weakness for malevolent supernatural beings to have. Even Galactus had to keep his word I recall? And you know who he was analagous to.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think it would be the kind of story that has ramifications worth exploring. I would want to keep on reading, for sure!

 

[3113]

Oy. You asked....

AIn the story it means that new issues arise about the emancipation of the protagonist and the fate of the child. The psychological issues arising are irresolvable, but to anticipate the story a little bit - they don't actually mean total estrangement.

Dude, you asked and I'm going to tell you in no uncertain terms: You plan on having a scene where your hero is conveniently erect, immobile, able to orgasm AND can get this woman preggers (Oh no! She and he must stay together for the baby, even if it was born of this horrible moment between them! How will they ever deal? Because, of course, she won't think of aborting even though they're in danger and it's a bad idea for her to be pregnant--thus putting them in more danger; even if its going to mess up his future relationship with his lover...that's be too responsible of her....).

Honestly, if I read all this woe! woe! woe! (darn the luck!) I wouldn't cry with sympathy...I'd laugh my ass off. But hey, that doesn't mean a dozen readers (I sincerely doubt any of the will be gay males) won't be weeping away at all the drama. I've seen readers here weep over...well...even-less-well-thought-out scenes.

Just a few questions: how can she get this magically immobilized--presumably flaccid guy stiff if she's raping him, he can't move, and he's disgusted and scared, and she's in a manic state. How erotic and sensual and irresistible can this sex be for him that his cock would stand at attention? How can he even orgasm? And why can't she just fuck herself with a stick or a rock or her hand? And are you telling me that in this world of magic, with empowerment spells and immobilization spells there somehow seems to be not a single contraceptive spell or potion a woman can take?

Seriously?

I'm sorry but this whole thing reads badly to me. I think gay male readers would click away in illness and feel anger rather than pathos. Also, introducing a baby is one of those things on the "jumping the shark" list. It's really hard to keep readers reading if the woman is going to spend a lot of the story pregnant or taking care of a baby--or if the gay man is going to be doing that. Do you know how boring it is to read about a gay guy taking care of a woman with morning sickness and swollen feet? Or for that matter, to read about diapering and feeding and the baby spitting up and crying?

 

[3113]

You can't compare this to an abusive relationship! Not the same.

The psychological issues arising are irresolvable, but to anticipate the story a little bit - they don't actually mean total estrangement. In real life, there are plenty of people who remain in abusive relationships of their own accord. I don't think this seems so different to that..

Um...NO. If the two scenarios were the same then it would mean that if a friend of yours, pretty much out of the blue, immobilized you and raped you, you and that friend would stay together. Do you think you would do that or do you think you'd have a restraining order out for your friend? Maybe have them arrested?

Few women (or men) get together with person who immediately abuses them and they stick with that person. In almost all cases the abuse builds and escalates over a good long time, from yelling and berating the person to slaps to real hitting. And before it even gets that bad the abuser also makes the abused person more reliant on them--takes control of the money, cuts them off from friends, etc, so they'll have a hard time leaving. Thus, most people remain in abusive relationships because of low self-esteem and because they've been brainwashed, usually over a very long time, into thinking they've no other options. This IS NOTHING LIKE your scenario.

Your scenario is a one time traumatic thing--VERY different from an abusive relationships. More like someone shot your best friend full of drugs and you had to put up with them doing some scary crazy things to you. Once they're off the drugs, they are back to being your friend, a person who never hurt you before, never wanted to hurt you and won't hurt you again; you either soldier on with them (it was the drugs--you do your best to forgive and forget) or you end the relationship because what happened left you too traumatized to look at them without re-living that trauma.

I would say that the in this instance, you'd end up with the later for the gay guy.

 

[Verdad]

So everyone, does this sound like it evokes pathos or is it really not suitable? Thanks.

I'm frankly not sure what you're asking. What does 'not suitable' mean?

If you're asking whether it's a rather silly idea, with a potential to misrepresent/offend/disgust a group of people, why yes, it is. But so is lots of other stuff.

Right now, on another thread, many people are expressing a liking for blackmail scenarios. I, for one, can't stomach them, but that's just me. The point is, is "blackmailed by boss into having sex" a brilliant idea? And does it not make your skin crawl if you take this scenario seriously for just one second?

Yet there's a gazillion of blackmail stories out there, and their writers and readers are probably not sweating 'the dynamic of the workplace' or some such. They're enjoying the thinly veiled excuse for putting the characters where they want them. I see no reason why you shouldn't do the same.

This particular tacky scenario doesn't require any more justification than do others. If it pleases you, write it.

 

[Concretejungleman]

@13 - I did mention the emancipation of the protagonist. That means I would eventually release him from that particular ball and chain and not allow him to stick around for the whole pregnancy! It is a theme that was first put in my head years ago by a strange guy who was raving against women who lie about contraception and about how a man "loses part of his humanity" if he doesn't take care of a baby from an unwanted pregnancy. My first thought was "if you don't want to get a certain woman pregnant, don't ever cum in her!" However, eventually I did wonder - what if the sex was non-consensual for the man? The man wouldn't have got to have any control over events then and nor could he decide about becoming a biological father. So is our hero "losing part of his humanity" or is that melodramatic claptrap?

Erections are an involuntary response to stimuli. The penis is made of nerves, not muscle! If a cock ring or rubber band is placed around a penis, then it becomes erect due to blood pooling in it. If it is squeezed and stroked in the right way with a human hand, the same effect can be achieved. All the more terrifying for the protagonist, since he gets to really feel losing control over his private parts!

The magic in the world is limited and not easily available. The baddie acquired his powers by bartering his soul and really suffers for it later. The ill omened young lady has no magic powers of her own. She uses a unique magical artefact which briefly changes her into a kind of superbeing, but at the cost of her self control. Her subconscious desires and deeply buried issues become fully manifest. Rape is about power and control over the victim not about sex. She had certain issues that she had not resolved, and had deeply buried anger directed at the opposite gender and in her irrational state, wanted to establish full control over the protagonist. I expect this sounds bizarre when divorced from its context like this, but all the pieces fit together in my head.

 

[JuneSummers]

It is a theme that was first put in my head years ago by a strange guy who was raving against women who lie about contraception and about how a man "loses part of his humanity" if he doesn't take care of a baby from an unwanted pregnancy.

I think this is another difference. Women who lie about contraception presumably want to become pregnant. In your story, the pregnancy is unwanted by both parties. The girl has no more reason to care for the child than the guy does. I think you should consider carefully what motivates the girl to keep this child and why the guy decides otherwise.

 

[TamLin01]

Honestly, I'm still a little unclear on the question being asked? Is the issue whether this subject is strictly verboten and impossible to write well? Of course not; nothing is. Or is the issue whether the story sounds incredibly risky and difficult to pull off? Of course it is; and that you asked means you already knew that.

 

[Concretejungleman]

You are right that motivations have to be carefully worked out. It is worth bearing in mind though that neither of them need be particularly mature about it. He is in his early 20s and she is 18-19. Obviously she has no real understanding of what parenting (with all her issues) would be like.

Although she didn't want to be pregnant by just any male person, it is already established at an earlier point that she thinks the protagonist to be the perfect biological father. It's suggested by her quip that if she could make a man from clay who she would personally be attracted to, he would be it. Someone ready to make very distasteful jokes about it would probably observe that he was above her league to the extent that she could not even give her sex away to him...

 

[madam_noe]

Just to weigh in, in addition to being a writer I am a licensed psychotherapist and a dominatrix, and I do enjoy fantasy non-consent "rape" scenes with submissive men. So this is somewhat familiar territory for me.

First up, if your protagonist is homosexual, most readers will be of the same mind. They will have the same reaction as your friend, their skin will crawl.

In order for it to be an erotic rape scene, if that's your goal, there has to be some erotic benefit for the victim. The submissive men in my life who enjoy my "raping" them tend to be heterosexual, Type A's, highly successful, and in their personal relationships are usually stuck being the dominant partner. They universally have a strong mother and grew up revering women, but to compete in society they have had to affect a misogynistic attitude. Also, the size of their genitalia is irrelevant.

They do not enjoy the rape while it is occurring and after have mixed feelings for a while. Usually weeks later I get a call begging to do it again. So it's a long process in which they encapsulate their hidden feelings of female superiority (based primarily off their mothers) in a secret way that can be hidden from their daily life.

I've never met a gay man that enjoys the thought of a rape scene by a woman. I know many who enjoy rape scenes by proxy. I usually have my stud slaves rape them while I control the scene. That's about the only female interaction a gay man would desire in a non-consent scene.

So as you've written it there is no way the large majority of your readers would find the scene erotic. I would suggest 2 possible courses of action.

A) Gloss over the scene, mention it, but don't describe it in detail

B) Go for a futinari bent: perhaps the magic that drives her mad also grants her a phallus. Perhaps she attacks him from behind and he does not know it's her and enjoys the experience, but the horror comes after when he realizes it's a woman that has sodomized him. This would also very deeply disturb the woman.

No matter how you choose to work this out I wish you luck and would love to read your story!

 

[Concretejungleman]

Thank you. It may be best if you check the passage in question to see exactly where it needs improving.

Song of Achilles was aimed at young women as well wasn't it? Even though the protagonist was a homosexual man? Male slash fanfiction of that kind is primarily consumed by young women I think? They don't have to worry about their own relationships failing to meet up with standards shown in fictious male/male relationships which could be a problem for them with hetero or fem-slash.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thank you. It may be best if you check the passage in question to see exactly where it needs improving.

Song of Achilles was aimed at young women as well wasn't it? Even though the protagonist was a homosexual man? Male slash fanfiction of that kind is primarily consumed by young women I think? They don't have to worry about their own relationships failing to meet up with standards shown in fictious male/male relationships which could be a problem for them with hetero or fem-slash.

Older women, actually. The primary demographic is 35 and up.

Some reasons for slashfic are;

two men are even better than one man,

Male privilege allows for so much more physical adventure without explanation of how women got involved in that, unlike femslash.

Two people in a same sex relationship can, theoretically, negotiate their roles, while hetero relationships are pretty much written in societal stone most places.

 

[Concretejungleman]

I suppose the age of the followers must vary according to the fanbase. You are saying the Song of Achilles was read most by older women? That makes sense. The source material is studied less and less as time goes on in the English speaking countries.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I suppose the age of the followers must vary according to the fanbase. You are saying the Song of Achilles was read most by older women? That makes sense. The source material is studied less and less as time goes on in the English speaking countries.

I've never even heard of it...

I was responding to your general comments about slashfic. In general, it's written and read by an older group of women than you might expect.

For reasons you might not have guessed.