Win '98 SE - HELP!

[MagicFingers]

A friend gave me their old PC. It had Win 98 and it had a couple of minor anomalies, so I wanted to udgrade it to SE version to fix it. It started the update OK, then after the first reboot, it did some other stuff, then shut off. I started it up, then it continued and loaded some more stuff, up to the "Loading Plug and play" section, the last step, I think. Well, now, it tries to boot up, gets to the Windows '98 splash screen, then resets itself, over and over again.

I managed to get to the CD from a bootup floppy and restarted the Win 98 SE upgrade again. SAME result in the end. It WILL boot successfully to Safe mode and says it's SE version in the "System"/Hardware DEvices area.

I don't have a full Win '98 CD. Does anyone know how I can fix this thing? To get it to complete the upgrade? If won't boot to the old version either - not there. There were no viruses or spyware when I started the upgrade.

It is an old HP Presiario, PII, 488mhz, 64K ram and is otherwise working ok.

 

[jradek75]

I'd reformat the drive and start from scratch since it doesn't sound like there's any critical information you need to preserve. Be sure to get the drivers that you need from the manufacturer's website.

If you have a Windows 95 CD or Win 3.x floppy disks, you can use the upgrade version of Wndows 98 to do a full install. During the setup, it will ask for a qualifying product to upgrade. You can put the 95 CD or 3.x floppy disk in and then Windows 98's Setup will be satisfied that you met the upgrade requirement and will install.

 

[NorthwestTrail]

Okay, this is going to be fun....

First what where the anomalies that where occurring prior to your upgrade? I ask this because an upgrade will not always fix the problem. The only sure-fire way to resolve a lot of windows issues is to fdisk, format, and reinstall. Now this is method is often avoided since you will loose all of the data on the disk, but is the most reliable in fixing a lot of Windows issues.

The first thing I would do is to run a scandisk of the hard drive from your boot floppy. This is just in case the problem is with the hard drive and not windows. Hard drives do fail and if the hard drive is original, it may be failing and that is what has been causing your problems. If the scandisk does not show any errors, then it is most likely a windows issue.

If there are no problems with your drive, reboot into safe mode, and type "sfc" into the run menu from the start button. This will bring up the Windows System File Checker. Go ahead and run a check. Make sure to have the 98se upgrade disk with you incase if finds errors and want to get new copies off the disk. Hopefully this will find the problem and fix it.

If this does not work, then it might be the MBR or Master Boot Record that is incorrect. To fix this, boot from the floppy to the dos prompt and type "fdisk /mbr" This will rewrite the mbr. Then try to reboot normally and see if it works.

I am assuming that you only have a win98 upgrade cd-rom? Unfortunately, you cannot do a full reinstall with it since it will look for previous versions of windows. But if you happen to have an old cd-rom of win95 or even 3.1 you CAN do a full reinstall off of the upgrade disk. (I still have a copy of 95 just for this purpose). Hopefully it won't come to this, since you will want to completely wipe the hard drive first to assure a clean install.

I would try the file checker in safe mode first, then do the mbr fix, then come back and report. I will do some more research, and try to find a solution that does not require a full reinstall of win98.

Good luck.....and oh, you could always run Linux!

 

[jradek75]

Okay, this is going to be fun....

I ask this because an upgrade will not always fix the problem. The only sure-fire way to resolve a lot of windows issues is to fdisk, format, and reinstall. Now this is method is often avoided since you will loose all of the data on the disk, but is the most reliable in fixing a lot of Windows issues.

This is very true. When I first got into computers, it seemed logical to upgrade a computer when it was acting up. Basically, in my mind, a newer OS/program would be better and wouldn't have any problems. Unfortunately, experience taught me otherwise. When you upgrade a PC that is experiencing problems, you also upgrade the problems. This turns minor problems into major ones. So much so that when it comes to operating systems, I absolutely don't believe in upgrading the OS anymore(except service packs). Even the servers at my work don't get their OS's upgraded. We export the data we need perserved, wipe the drive clean, install the new OS, and then reimport the needed data.

 

[Weird Harold]

It is an old HP Presiario, PII, 488mhz, 64K ram and is otherwise working ok.

HP's -- especially OLD Hp's -- don't get along well with generic windows upgrades.

You need the original Restore disk that came with that computer.

HP's support site is a bit hard to navigate, but they are qiling ot help solve this kind of problem anmay be able to provide you with the correct rEstore disk if you don't have it.

 

[Ezzy]

HP's -- especially OLD Hp's -- don't get along well with generic windows upgrades.

You need the original Restore disk that came with that computer.

HP's support site is a bit hard to navigate, but they are qiling ot help solve this kind of problem anmay be able to provide you with the correct rEstore disk if you don't have it.

Boy! Harold your post is hard to navigate this morning, but as an HP user you hit the nail on the head. If you can't find a friend with the "right" restore disk for your computer type.

HP will send you a disk check for the specific disk for your computer here .

 

[MagicFingers]

Ok

Okay, this is going to be fun....

First what where the anomalies that where occurring prior to your upgrade? I ask this because an upgrade will not always fix the problem. The only sure-fire way to resolve a lot of windows issues is to fdisk, format, and reinstall. Now this is method is often avoided since you will loose all of the data on the disk, but is the most reliable in fixing a lot of Windows issues.

The first thing I would do is to run a scandisk of the hard drive from your boot floppy. This is just in case the problem is with the hard drive and not windows. Hard drives do fail and if the hard drive is original, it may be failing and that is what has been causing your problems. If the scandisk does not show any errors, then it is most likely a windows issue.

If there are no problems with your drive, reboot into safe mode, and type "sfc" into the run menu from the start button. This will bring up the Windows System File Checker. Go ahead and run a check. Make sure to have the 98se upgrade disk with you incase if finds errors and want to get new copies off the disk. Hopefully this will find the problem and fix it.

If this does not work, then it might be the MBR or Master Boot Record that is incorrect. To fix this, boot from the floppy to the dos prompt and type "fdisk /mbr" This will rewrite the mbr. Then try to reboot normally and see if it works.

I am assuming that you only have a win98 upgrade cd-rom? Unfortunately, you cannot do a full reinstall with it since it will look for previous versions of windows. But if you happen to have an old cd-rom of win95 or even 3.1 you CAN do a full reinstall off of the upgrade disk. (I still have a copy of 95 just for this purpose). Hopefully it won't come to this, since you will want to completely wipe the hard drive first to assure a clean install.

I would try the file checker in safe mode first, then do the mbr fix, then come back and report. I will do some more research, and try to find a solution that does not require a full reinstall of win98.

Good luck.....and oh, you could always run Linux!

Before I started, I updated and ran Ad-Aware, AVG, and a full scandisk with surface check, so I think the disk is good.
The anomalies were a game that plays online, but not offline; and sometimes Windows Explorer hangs up; and sometimes GPFs or something like that. Memory test was good too, by the way.
The system has some files that I didn't want to delete if I could help it. The lady might still need some of the info there.

I know that upgrades don't always fix everything, but I also know that SE is much more stable than non-SE, and I had a CD...
Yes, I have a Win '95 and could install that, then the '98SE upgrade and that MIGHT work. But it would wipe out all the data there.

jradek, you can't just stick in a Win 95 CD and fool '98SE upgrade into thinking it's installed, can you? How would you do that? Doesn't 95 have to be INSTALLED?

I tried fdisk /mbr and ran SFC from safe mode. It found 2 files corrupt, user.exe and another one. The trouble is that there is no CD support in SAFE mode. Is there any way I can get CD to run in safe mode? Config.sys entry?

As a side note, I tried to install 2000 Pro from floppies, to see if it would start. It stops in floppy 2(of 4) with an Error #7. I'm assuming it's a hardware compatibility thing, but need to look up this error.

I KNOW I will have driver issues and have to search for several that are not on my install CD, like video, sound, PCI. Bad ones to be missing. I know this because I tried an old Win 98se disk from this PC to see it it would detect everything and come up. It didn't. It did come up, but PCI, sound, PCI had errors and wrong drivers.

WH, yes, HP are F***'D up! The woman bought this used from Best Buy, or somewhere and there is no restore CD. It would probably wipe everything out anyway, which I can do.

This should have been SO simple to make this thing work for my kids to have, but what a pain!
I have hated Compaq's for years, and the last 2 or 3 years, I've grown to hate HP just as much. Please, people, don't ever buy either one if you ever want to have them worked on!!!

 

[MagicFingers]

Floppy boot

I CAN get CD support from a flopp win 98 bootup disk. That is how I managed to try the upgrade all over the second time. Can I run SFC from there?

 

[Weird Harold]

I CAN get CD support from a flopp win 98 bootup disk. That is how I managed to try the upgrade all over the second time. Can I run SFC from there?

Nope, SFC is a windows only program.

The problem with many HPs -- and Compaqs -- is that they store some of the setup information on the HD and customize the Windows software to work with their quirky proprietary hardware; which is why they won't work with a generic Windows install disk.

 

[MagicFingers]

Thanks

Nope, SFC is a windows only program.

The problem with many HPs -- and Compaqs -- is that they store some of the setup information on the HD and customize the Windows software to work with their quirky proprietary hardware; which is why they won't work with a generic Windows install disk.

Yeah, they really suck!

I "looked" at the registry and saw that all the setup files were in RunOnce. Deleted them all and reinstalled W98 Update - same problem - now hangs on the splash sreen instead of rebooting.

I extracted the two files, user.exe & setupx.dll from the CD on my other PC and copied them to floppies, re-ran SFC, replaced the 2 bad files from the floppy - no help. Same bootup problem.

 

[princess4u]

i really don't know anything about hardware - but will the restore
disk with win98 for an hp pavilion work with that computer?

 

[MagicFingers]

Yes

i really don't know anything about hardware - but will the restore
disk with win98 for an hp pavilion work with that computer?

It would restore it to the same original state it was in 5 or 6 years ago when it was new.
But, I don't have one.
Thanks anyway, Princess.

I'm looking for drivers now, thinking I'll have to start from scratch.
I hope I can read the motherboard writing without taking it out.
I found that the video chip is an AGP ATI Rage IIC and the Chipset is 440ZX100 or 66.

Does anyone know if this is a "Falcon" MB? I saw that somewhere but have never heard of it. I'm concerned about getting the right PCI and other chipset drivers. Of course, HP never tells us that important info, and the only driver they had was for the keyboard.

If anyone knows a way around starting from scratch with Win95/98SE, please let me know. Haven't started to wipe it out yet.

Thanks, people!

 

[BobJones69]

...The only sure-fire way to resolve a lot of windows issues is to fdisk, format, and reinstall. Since you will loose all of the data on the disk this is the most reliable in fixing a lot of Windows issues.

Fixed

 

[jradek75]

jradek, you can't just stick in a Win 95 CD and fool '98SE upgrade into thinking it's installed, can you? How would you do that? Doesn't 95 have to be INSTALLED?

No, Windows95 doesn't need to be installed.

Basically, if you decide to go down the reformat road, you'll be starting from scratch. From there, start the Windows 98 SE upgrade. 98SE Setup will eventually ask for a qualifying product since it doesn't see one installed already. Insert the Windows 95 CD and 98SE Setup will see the Windows 95 CD. It will then install the full 98SE product. You see, Microsoft's doesn't really care whether you've installed 95. They just care that you've paid for it. By providing an existing install OR a CD, you've proven it as good as is realistically possible.

Harold brought up a good point, however. Good luck with the drivers. I remember a Compaq I bought back in 97. God, that thing was a pain in the ass! Thinking of those memories.... I'd really try to buy a restore CD from HP if at all possible. Keep in mind, the Restore CD may wipe the drive clean as well. I remember the Compaq CD did. It didn't even make an attempt at preserving anything.

 

[MagicFingers]

OK, Here's the scoop

I formatted and loaded Win '98SE and all the drivers I could find.
Had a LOT of trouble getting a modem driver to work. It had a Rockwell/Conexant RipTide combo Modem/Sound/Joystick card that was very hard to get working. I finally get the right driver(s) and loaded all the other programs like Ad-Aware, Spybot S&D, AVG, Win updates, and everything was working fine. Suddenly, it stopped booting correctly.

After much deliberation and troubleshooting, and reloading Win'98SE update again, I found the problem:
The last AVG UPDATE WAS KILLING THE modem/sound DRIVERS ON BOOTUP!!!
I used to trust them but now I have serious reservations.

So, the original problem I had when I upgraded to SE, MAY have been caused by the AVG update, which I had just done before upgrading to SE.

Just an FYI and a warning for others to be aware of if they have AVG and 98SE.

Thanks everyone.

 

[BobJones69]

Just install it as a "standard modem" of the appropriate speed. That should work fine.

 

[MagicFingers]

Nope, that didn't/wouldn't work

Just install it as a "standard modem" of the appropriate speed. That should work fine.

Also, loaded the generic driver suggested and provided by Conexant. It didn't work!
The system is working fine with AVG in it. It does appear to have some sound driver issues (but sound basically works OK).
I had a version of Norton antivirus that will be good for a year for them so I installed it and the Riptide drivers didn't get hosed.

 

[Quoll]

I formatted and loaded Win '98SE and all the drivers I could find.
Had a LOT of trouble getting a modem driver to work. It had a Rockwell/Conexant RipTide combo Modem/Sound/Joystick card that was very hard to get working. I finally get the right driver(s) and loaded all the other programs like Ad-Aware, Spybot S&D, AVG, Win updates, and everything was working fine. Suddenly, it stopped booting correctly.

After much deliberation and troubleshooting, and reloading Win'98SE update again, I found the problem:
The last AVG UPDATE WAS KILLING THE modem/sound DRIVERS ON BOOTUP!!!
I used to trust them but now I have serious reservations.

So, the original problem I had when I upgraded to SE, MAY have been caused by the AVG update, which I had just done before upgrading to SE.

Just an FYI and a warning for others to be aware of if they have AVG and 98SE.

Thanks everyone.

This just in from AVG.

[link]
Roxio has just released an update for their driver that fixes a problem when running the Roxio CD drivers together with AVG Free Edition. The update is available for download from the Roxio site : [/link]