Why this anomaly?

[CyranoJ]

Seconding Hands' initial reply.

And now I feel sorry for you.

If you feel the need to sit in judgement of others' kinks, it's not them you should feel sorry for.

 

[KindofHere]

Anyone who thinks Rape is about sex is clearly a misogynist.

You're being narrow minded Zeb.

Not everyone has the same motivations when it comes to rape. Committing any crime against someone gives the criminal control & power over the victim, but that is a part of crime. Some people really enjoy that part of it, some aren't thinking about that part of crime.

Your own personal definition and understanding of rape has nothing to do with why people are motivated to commit it.

Labeling people who don't share the same 'control' view as you a misogynist is also unfair.

Rape is horrible. Would be nice if no one did it.

This is one of those topics where a persons emotions can drive their response and lead to unnecessary bickering and insults.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Not everyone has the same motivations when it comes to rape. Committing any crime against someone gives the criminal control & power over the victim, but that is a part of crime. Some people really enjoy that part of it, some aren't thinking about that part of crime.

Your own personal definition and understanding of rape has nothing to do with why people are motivated to commit it.

These bundlings of rape into different categories is a scary way of thinking, to my mind. It sort of infers that there is a spectrum of rape behaviour. The problem with spectrums of behaviour is that people start to quantify them.... Does one then end up with a rape type one and a rape type ten? That some rape is OK in some circumstances, but not in others? I bloody hope not.

Rape is rape, it's a crime, it's abhorrent, yet I sense in this thread some people justifying their writing of it, justifying their turn on by it. That disturbs me. I understand the PTSD and healing side of the debate, but I do not understand the other side where people seem to write for their gratuitous satisfaction. We should care for and treat the victims with sensitivity, but we should not be celebrating the perpetrators, never, not once.

I don't know the answer, but it's a slippery slope. I don't like slippery slopes as a matter of principle (history has too many already), but we have one with the current Lit policy. Rants won't change it, so we can only hope that the Reporting function purges the worst of it.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

You're being narrow minded Zeb.

Not everyone has the same motivations when it comes to rape. Committing any crime against someone gives the criminal control & power over the victim, but that is a part of crime. Some people really enjoy that part of it, some aren't thinking about that part of crime.

Your own personal definition and understanding of rape has nothing to do with why people are motivated to commit it.

Labeling people who don't share the same 'control' view as you a misogynist is also unfair.

Rape is horrible. Would be nice if no one did it.

This is one of those topics where a persons emotions can drive their response and lead to unnecessary bickering and insults.

So who here is a cop or a psychologist, raise your hand. I was a cop. My cousin is a psychologist who counsels rape victims. Before we both retired, we would talk shop all the time.

If your neither then you know nothing about rape. Unless your are a rape victim, then you have my sympathies.

No matter what you think, if you have sex without the other persons consent, it's rape. And it's not about the sex. It's about the control and the violation of the woman. If you don't understand that, you should probably go talk to a psychologist yourself.

Having a fantasy about not being in control might sound sexy. But how many women want it to really happen? I don't know. I don't want to know.

As for being narrow minded, you bet. I see a man raping a woman, he gets a bullet in the head. I'll just make it real simple for the cops and the taxpayers. To the morgue instead of jail where we would have to feed the scum and spend a quarter million dollars on prosecuting him.

No matter how you frame it, it's rape.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Seconding Hands' initial reply.



If you feel the need to sit in judgement of others' kinks, it's not them you should feel sorry for.

Hmmm...you might want a little bit of your own medicine.

 

[KindofHere]

Being a cop doesn't gain you any points. Cops are normal people, trained to be cops. They are not specialists in all forms of criminal activity.

Zeb, you can't even read what I'm saying without having tunnel vision. Are you even answering my post or are you just speaking after hitting the quote button?

Nowhere did I say rape wasn't rape. Nowhere did I defend someone's fantasy. I said your personal belief that rape is only about control is wrong, because you don't know the mind of the person committing the rape.

What you see as a cop is the aftermath of a rape, as do doctors, as do friends of victims, as do family members, but you're not in the mind of the rapist. To say it is 'all about control and not sex' for every rapists out there is wrong. Their underlying motivation doesn't matter to me, they should all be punished accordingly.

You can write another rape is rape post if you need to, now.


Edit electricblue66 ... as Zeb has said 'rape is rape' and I agree with that, the motivation behind it is the only thing that can differ between rapists, but their motivations shouldn't matter when punishments are handed out.

I do think there is a line between fantasy and reality, but some of those lines are really really ... really fine, but people can find a way to justify anything to themselves. You can only hope their fantasy never becomes a reality.

 

[LIVINRFANTASIES]

Dollie

In my 58 years and going of marriage to the same man I worked less than two weeks in a restaurant that was also a bar. I was newly married and very young. My husband made me quit for good reasons.
Other than that I raised my three children and we adopted our first grandson after taking him in at five days old.
I attended PTO, church groups, neighborhood sales, and things all good mothers do. Other things we did are still a secret to many.

Hubby had to leave many details out of his early stories but we understand.------------> [1] Let's start with the definition:-
"Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration perpetrated against a person without that person's consent. "

It's also something a person never forgets!

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Being a cop doesn't gain you any points. Cops are normal people, trained to be cops. They are not specialists in all forms of criminal activity.

Zeb, you can't even read what I'm saying without having tunnel vision. Are you even answering my post or are you just speaking after hitting the quote button?

Nowhere did I say rape wasn't rape. Nowhere did I defend someone's fantasy. I said your personal belief that rape is only about control is wrong, because you don't know the mind of the person committing the rape.

What you see as a cop is the aftermath of a rape, as do doctors, as do friends of victims, as do family members, but you're not in the mind of the rapist. To say it is 'all about control and not sex' for every rapists out there is wrong. Their underlying motivation doesn't matter to me, they should all be punished accordingly.

You can write another rape is rape post if you need to, now.


Edit electricblue66 ... as Zeb has said 'rape is rape' and I agree with that, the motivation behind it is the only thing that can differ between rapists, but their motivations shouldn't matter when punishments are handed out.

I do think there is a line between fantasy and reality, but some of those lines are really really ... really fine, but people can find a way to justify anything to themselves. You can only hope their fantasy never becomes a reality.

Ah. So are you a psychologist? Or a psychiatrist? How many real people cops do you know? Who have been trained to investigate rape?

The motivation of a date rapist is he's a coward. Doesn't have the nerve to struggle with her, so he drugs her to take control. He may get his rocks off, but it has nothing to do with the sex. It's about him having control. He's in charge. He's fucking her, when she probably would tell him to take a hike.

Now tell me a date rapist isn't a coward and a rapist. Tell my why he does it. Go ahead.

 

[CarlusMagnus]

The problem with spectrums of behaviour is that people start to quantify them...

So people take an idea in what you think is the wrong direction. Does that mean it's the wrong direction?

More importantly, does their taking it there really invalidate the idea?

 

[CarlusMagnus]

\Tell my why he does it. Go ahead.

You mean the way you just did?

 

[OliviaM]

People who think "not all rape is real rape" can go back to reddit or the general board or whatever toxic hellhole welcomes idiotic ideas like that. I would greatly appreciate if the mods of this board would help by deleting offensive posts, so that this forum doesn't follow the same path that those did. Once the hate brigade is allowed in, there's no getting rid of them.

For what I hope is the last time:

A rapist fantasy is about hurting or humiliating someone through sex, excercising control, getting "what you deserve" or "what you're entitled to" from the person being raped. This is the kind of story that's going to get rejected, unless it ALSO clearly includes the fantasy below.

A rape fantasy is about powerful desire that overrides good sense and social rules. It's about both parties. It's about the appeal of physical or mental control, CONCURRENT pleasure from everyone involved, and in the end, recovering and healing from the trauma and making amends.

For anyone with questions about what is allowed here, there are about a hundred other threads on the subject and the forum search function. For anything else, contact Laurel.

 

[ElectricBlue]

So people take an idea in what you think is the wrong direction. Does that mean it's the wrong direction?

More importantly, does their taking it there really invalidate the idea?

I don't know how you arrived at this interpretation of what I wrote - what does "in the wrong direction" even mean?

My comment was to do with my concern that some people appear to think that some rapes are worse than others. My view on this subject is absolute - rape is an abhorrent crime, full stop. Perpetrators need to be punished, not written about on an erotica site. My preference is for non-con to not be here at all.

 

[KindofHere]

I don't know how you arrived at this interpretation of what I wrote - what does "in the wrong direction" even mean?

My comment was to do with my concern that some people appear to think that some rapes are worse than others. My view on this subject is absolute - rape is an abhorrent crime, full stop. Perpetrators need to be punished, not written about on an erotica site. My preference is for non-con to not be here at all.

I can see there being levels beyond the initial rape that could add to the severity of the crime.

Lets say for an example ... someone is drugged and raped, they can barely remember and the rapists does their best not to be noticed ... compared to someone who is raped and then you add ... gang rape and add a beating, and add a knifing, and add a robbery and add tortured by a sexual sadist and add having the rapist take your driver license and promise to be back for you or family members if you talk and add calls from unknown numbers to remind you of what happened. Add getting a disease, add getting pregnant. I am saying the rape itself is on the same level as other rapes, while the added assaults can make the act worse for each individual victim.


The law doesn't treat all rapes as equal, but I don't always agree with the law either.

That's it from me.

 

[Handley_Page]

I have Taking The Piss accepted and A Very Rare Species rejected at present in my stories.
Both feature a rape.

What's the difference?

Not being privy to the texts you mention it is difficult to say.
But bear in mind that Lit is a privately-owned site.
It's her train set and she can do as she will.

But why force yourself into difficult pastures when there are other erotic things which can be the subject ?. I suspect that if you get published a few stories of known quality you might venture into the swamp with a little more confidence.

 

[Handley_Page]

I can see there being levels beyond the initial rape that could add to the severity of the crime.

Lets say for an example ... someone is drugged and raped, they can barely remember and the rapists does their best not to be noticed ... compared to someone who is raped and then you add ...
gang rape and add a beating, and add a knifing, and add a robbery and add tortured by a sexual sadist and add having the rapist take your driver license and promise to be back for you or family members if you talk and add calls from unknown numbers to remind you of what happened. That's it from me.

You mean, like Brock Turner ?

 

[KindofHere]

If you're going to quote me, use my entire quote, don't chop and paste for your convenience ... that way people understand exactly what I was saying, in case they skipped over my original statement. You left out some important words that gave an overall picture of what I said.

It would also be nice if you would address the statement I made instead of creating one for yourself.

You mean, like Brock Turner ?

I can see there being levels beyond the initial rape that could add to the severity of the crime.

Lets say for an example ... someone is drugged and raped, they can barely remember and the rapists does their best not to be noticed ... compared to someone who is raped and then you add ... gang rape and add a beating, and add a knifing, and add a robbery and add tortured by a sexual sadist and add having the rapist take your driver license and promise to be back for you or family members if you talk and add calls from unknown numbers to remind you of what happened. Add getting a disease, add getting pregnant. I am saying the rape itself is on the same level as other rapes, while the added assaults can make the act worse for each individual victim.


The law doesn't treat all rapes as equal, but I don't always agree with the law either.

That's it from me.

 

[CyranoJ]

Hmmm...you might want a little bit of your own medicine.

I didn't just tell someone I was "sorry for them" for having a fantasy.

(As you are probably remembering, I have previously told people that I like kink communities to know the difference between fantasy and reality and accept that it should be there; hence "not all rape is rape" guy can go to hell. If you're trying to portray that as the equivalent of what you just tried to do, no, it isn't.)

 

[Nezhul]

Ah. So are you a psychologist? Or a psychiatrist?

To be fair, the fact that someone is psychologist or psychiatrist doesn't mean this person knows how to judge people's behaviours. Bad psychologist or bad cop - is worse than a criminal. And there are people who can give you better advice in life without them being educated to do it in any way.

So your point about profession is moot. It's shaky. It simply doesn't matter. If you think that you know better because you are a former cop, "I feel sorry for you" (c).

Stop shaking your former profession as a flag, as if it gives your thoughts more credibility. It doesn't. If you have something to say - say it, but your opinions are as good as the next guy's.

 

[uksnowy]

No point in looking in here any more, so off subject and no help at all.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Personality Characteristics:

Various personality profiles of self-reported college rapists have been reported and include the following:

• lack of empathy
• hostile masculinity
• macho/aggressive and dominant and controlling personalities
• impulsivity
• emotional constriction
• underlying anger and power issues with women

(Berkowitz, 1992; Check et al., 1985; Lisak & Roth, 1990; Mehrabian & Epstein, 1972; Rapaport and Burkhart, 1984).

University of Michigan Study - Under Standing the Perpetrator

 

[AH_Mod]

This thread has gone well off the rails from the OP, so I'm going to close it.