Why The Holocaust Must Be Questioned

[Lovelynice]

This thread is simply in the tradition of the concept of a flat Earth, men that didn't go to the moon, etc.

But the Earth is flat. I saw Monty Python's The Meaning of Life so I know. The rest of you should watch and take heed...

Flat Earthers are people like you who are gullible enough to believe this kind of nonsense...

http://xs76.xs.to/pics/06151/peer8jb.jpg

or this even sillier one...

http://xs77.xs.to/pics/06165/MiracleBarberShop.JPG

I mean people who accept this kind of absolute crapola aren't running on a lot of brainpower are they?

 

[miles]

Oh yes the lame fall back position of every holocaust propagandist...call everyone you dislike or questions the falsehoods and lies of the holocaust an "anti-semitic"
.

Okay. He's just a regular moronic, trailer-trash loser.

 

[zipman]

Yeah right. Glycol-based solvent ink on the market in the 1940s....

BULLSHIT!

No such thing dumbass!

First came out in 1951.

And nothing you say is going to change that. Dream on.

LMAO!

The diary wasn't written using a ball-point pen with glycol-based ink. The editorial notes included on loose scraps of paper were though and those notes were not included in the diary.

Nice try. It always amazes me about the amount of effort that you deniers put into your nonsense.

Now refer to yourself as a "truthseeker" and then call me a brainwashed sheep and you will have fulfilled all of your Holocaust Denial Responsibilities as spelled out in the handbook.

 

[Drinking Cap]

You know what would really convince me that the holocaust was a hoax? Some cartoons that don't actually refer to anything specific but a small quote from a 13 year old newspaper.

If only someone would post one.

 

[Lovelynice]

The diary wasn't written using a ball-point pen with glycol-based ink.

The fake "diary" written by Otto Frank was. Go back over the previous posts. The ink-paste was identifiable as one not available until 1951 because it used a glycol solvent.

The editorial notes included on loose scraps of paper were though and those notes were not included in the diary.

Not according to the BKA report.

Because of the lawsuit in a German court, the German state forensic bureau, the Bundes Kriminal Amt [BKA] forensically examined the manuscript, which at that point in time consisted of 3 hardbound notebooks and 324 loose pages bound in a fourth notebook, with special forensic equipment.

The results of tests, performed at the BKA laboratories, showed that significant portions of the work, especially the fourth volume, were written with a ballpoint pen using a glycol solvent based ink-paste unavailable before 1951, the Bundes Kriminal Amt concluded those sections must have been added subsequently.

In the end, Bundes Kriminal Amt clearly determined that none of the diary handwriting matched known examples of Anne's handwriting. The German magazine, Der Spiegel, later published an account of this report alleging that (a) some editing postdated 1951; (b) an earlier expert had held that all the writing in the journal was by the same hand; and therefore (c) the entire "diary" was a postwar fake.

The Bundes Kriminal Amt information, at the urgent request of the Jewish community, was redacted at the time but later inadvertently released to researchers in the United States.

The handwriting in the alleged "diary" also does NOT match that of Anne Frank's postcards...as has been mentioned and displayed ALREADY

The style of handwritng in the "diary".
http://xs77.xs.to/pics/06160/AnneDiary.jpg
Remember the expert analysis about the handwriting in the "diary" was clear. The same person had written on every page...


But it very clearly doesn't match Anne Frank's handwriting on her picture postcards.
http://xs77.xs.to/pics/06160/Anne_Postcardwriting.jpg

We've already gone over this many times. One must assume that you are lacking the ability to comprehend basic facts.

Here's Anne Frank at 13 years old at the beach...
http://xs77.xs.to/pics/06160/AnneFrank_beach13.jpg

Damn, I thought she was supposed to be hiding in the attic!


More likely they were just being "discreet".

 

[zipman]

LOL, you're desperation is showing.

An internet search on Glycol solvents and anne frank yielded no results.

You're inability to provide links other than to "hosted" pages does not bolster your ridiculous case, but merely highlights the fact that it isn't valid.

Here is a summation of the findings of the court.

The controversy reached its peak with the arrest and trial of two neo-Nazis, Ernst Römer and Edgar Geiss, who were tried and found guilty of producing and distributing literature denouncing the diary as a forgery, following a complaint by Otto Frank. During their appeal, a team of historians examined the documents in consultation with Otto Frank, and determined them to be genuine. In 1978, as part of an appeal of the cases won against Römer and Geiss, the German Criminal Court Laboratory, the Bundeskriminalamt (BKA) was asked to examine the kind of paper and the types of ink used in the manuscript of the diary. Although its findings indicated that ink with which the diary was written had been in use during the war, the BKA also concluded that "the later corrections made on the loose-leaf pages were written in part in black, green and blue ballpoint pen," though the BKA did not give any specific details about these alleged ballpoint corrections. Deniers of the authenticity of the diary focussed in particular on this statement, as ballpoint pens did not become widely available until after the end of the Second World War.

In 1986 the Dutch "Gerechtelijk Laboratorium" (State Forensic Science Laboratory) in Rijswijk conducted another extensive technical examination of the manuscript. Though the BKA was invited by the "Gerechtelijk Laboratorium" to indicate where on the loose-leaf pages it had found the "ballpoint corrections", the BKA was unable to point out a single example. The "Gerechtelijk Laboratorium" itself found only two slips of paper in ballpoint ink which had been inserted in Anne Frank's loose leaf manuscript. The Revised Critical Edition of the Diary of Anne Frank (published 2003) reproduces images (pages 167-171) of the two slips of paper, and in the chapter summarising the findings of the State Forensic Science Laboratory which analysed the materials, ink and handwriting in the manuscripts of Anne Frank, H.J.J. Hardy writes on the matter:

The only ballpoint writing was found on two loose scraps of paper included among the loose sheets. Figures VI-I-I and 3 show the way in which these scraps of paper had been inserted into the relevant plastic folders. As far as the factual contents of the diary are concerned the ballpoint writings have no significance whatsoever. Morever, the handwriting on the scraps of paper and in the diary differs strikingly.(page 167)
A footnote on this page adds:

The Hamburg psychologist and court-appointed handwriting expert Hans Ockleman stated in a letter to the Anne Frank Fonds dated September 27 1987 that his mother, Mrs Dorothea Ockleman wrote the ballpoint texts in question when she collaborated with Mrs Minna Becker in investigating the diaries.

With Otto Frank's death in 1980, the original diary, including letters and loose sheets, had been willed to the Netherlands Institute for War Documentation, who commissioned a forensic study of the diary through the Netherlands Ministry of Justice in 1986. They examined the handwriting against known exemplars and found that they matched, and determined that the paper, glue and ink were readily available during the time the diary was said to have been written. Their final determination was that the diary is authentic. On March 23, 1990, the Hamburg Regional Court confirmed its authenticity.

Nevertheless, Holocaust deniers have been persistent in their claims that the diaries were forged. In 1991 Robert Faurisson and Siegfried Verbeke produced a booklet titled: The Diary of Anne Frank: A Critical Approach. It claimed that Otto Frank wrote the diary, based on assertions that the diary contained several contradictions, that hiding in the Achterhuis would have been impossible, and that the style and handwriting of Anne Frank were not those of a teenager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Frank

No magic ink. No time transporting pens. Discrepancy between handwritings explained and consistent with all reports.

 

[Lovelynice]

The "Gerechtelijk Laboratorium" (State Forensic Science Laboratory) in Rijswijk was asked to conduct an extensive examination of the manuscript with regard to her handwriting and other technical aspects. The BKA was invited by the "Gerechtelijk Laboratorium" to indicate where on the loose-leaf pages they had found the ballpoint ink. The BKA was unable to point out a single alleged correction in ballpoint ink.

http://www.radioislam.org/annefrank/12.jpg
Geez, there is a mess of corrections on this page - did they notice?

They examined the handwriting against known exemplars and found that they matched

Sure they matched...pretty clearly not!

The style of handwritng in the "diary".
http://xs77.xs.to/pics/06160/AnneDiary.jpg
Remember the expert analysis about the handwriting in the "diary" was clear. The same person had written on every page...


But it very clearly doesn't match Anne Frank's handwriting on her picture postcards.
http://xs77.xs.to/pics/06160/Anne_Postcardwriting.jpg

They really do match don't they? I mean look how completely different the writing is? You must be blind, right? You've been wanking so long that you've lost the power of sight just as the Pope predicted.

Oh, and Wikipedia is that wonderfully inaccurate site where a photo captioned as being a mass-grave is quite obviously a hole full of garbage and left over building materials and nothing more...
http://xs76.xs.to/pics/06154/treblinkagarbage.JPG

 

[Drinking Cap]

They really do match don't they? I mean look how completely different the writing is? You must be blind, right? You've been wanking so long that you've lost the power of sight just as the Pope predicted.

Sigh, not that I want to get dragged back into this stupidity but I'll say this very slowly for you.

Even assuming both documents you show are legitimate(mind you, you haven't proven that) one is in cursive and the other is printing. Many peoples handwriting looks entirely different in cursive.

Oh, and Wikipedia is that wonderfully inaccurate site where a photo captioned as being a mass-grave is quite obviously a hole full of garbage and left over building materials and nothing more...

As questionable as Wikipedia is, it's George Washington himself when it comes to truthiness compared to the sources you've cited.

 

[Lovelynice]

Wikipedia is soooooo trustworthy - NOT!

Does this look like a "mass-grave" filled with dead bodies to you?

http://xs76.xs.to/pics/06152/wiu62888.JPG

Can you point out the bones to me? All I can see are pieces of timber and the typical kind rubbish you'd find at any building site...

But it's falsely captioned as a "mass grave" on the Treblinka page on the Wikpedia site.

While they completely ignore any scientific evidence to the contrary...

‘No Jewish mass grave’ in Poland
The Canberra Times
January 24, 2000

ADELAIDE: An Australian Holocaust revisionist claims he has proof a mass grave never existed at Treblinka in Poland.
Data collected during a week at Treblinka. using ground penetrating radar, found no soil disturbance consistent with 870,000 Jews having been buried there.
Richard Krege, 30, of Canberra, said data collected during a week at Treblinka. using ground penetrating radar, found no soil disturbance consistent with 870,000 Jews having been buried there.
‘Historians say that the bodies were exhumed and cremated towards the end of the Treblinka camp’s use in 1943. but we found no indication that any mass graves ever existed," he said.
‘Personally, I don’t think there was a [death]-camp there at all.’
Mr Krege, who will address a public meeting in Adelaide tonight at the start of an eight-day tour, said he had gone to Poland in October last year to "find the truth".
A qualified electronics engineer, he is an associate of the Adelaide Institute run by German-born revisionist Dr Fredrick Toben, whom he is accompanying on the tour.
Mr Krege said he would like to see an international group formed, possibly under the auspices of the United Nations, to use ground penetrating radar at all concentration camps in Europe.
He said he was in the process of having other experts review the data he collected, but was confident that they would also conclude the mass burial did not happen.
The young Australian-born man admitted that he expected to be labelled a racist and anti-Semitic.


Ground penetrating radar is a standard industrial technique for discovering the location of graves, i.e. holes in the ground that have been dug and covered with dirt. GPR detects any large-scale disturbances in the soil structure to a normal effective depth of four or five meters, and sometimes up to ten meters. (GPR devices are routinely used around the world by geologists, archeologists, and police.) In its Treblinka investigation, Krege's team also carried out visual soil inspections, and used an auger to take numerous soil core samples. GPR scans were taken at both Treblinka and Belzec at the locations described above where the mass graves are likely to have been. The results suggest that there is no evidence of any massive soil disturbance one would expect to find were there mass graves at these locations, as alleged. More work is in progress so that definitive conclusions can be made. Both these camp sites are of high historical value and importance, no destructive investigative technique is permitted, such as digging a trench, and this rules out most traditional archeological techniques. As a result alternative non-destructive techniques were researched and it was decided that GPR would be suitable for this purpose.

Here's an example of the radar images gained.
http://xs76.xs.to/pics/06151/ground_scan.jpg

and the scanner
http://xs76.xs.to/pics/06151/treblinka_scanner.jpg

There's still a $165,000 reward for anyone who can find the gigantic mass graves with the requisite material evidence of thousands of dead bodies. It's been up for six years now, and still no takers.

 

[phrodeau]

It seems that Lovelynice's arguments boil down to green ink and hot air.

 

[Lovelynice]

It seems that Lovelynice's arguments boil down to green ink and hot air.

Or rather yours boil down to "I'm blind, I'm blind, I can not see the difference in handwriting! The pages are invisible!"

 

[zipman]

As questionable as Wikipedia is, it's George Washington himself when it comes to truthiness compared to the sources you've cited.

LOL, you noticed that too!

 

[phrodeau]

Or rather yours boil down to "I'm blind, I'm blind, I can not see the difference in handwriting! The pages are invisible!"

I am so blind, I cannot see what makes either of those samples authentic.

 

[krastner]

Or rather yours boil down to "I'm blind, I'm blind, I can not see the difference in handwriting! The pages are invisible!"

Keep giving them hell lovelynice. I know that the zipperhard and lottle poo poo will report this thread to threir jewish masters.. But don't worry. Their lies are becomming known to most in the world.

 

[unculbact]

Rubber Hoses And High Temperatures

For an original piece of research, I've noted one big flaw in the Nazi gas van fable that demonstrates the technical illiteracy of the propagandists who thought up the story.

Supposedly, the exhaust from the diesel in a gas van was connected to the cargo compartment by a detachable rubber hose.

"However, at least three witnesses were able to see the vehicles from the short distance. Mr. Jozef Piaskowski (b. 1908) was employed in the Reichsstraßenbauamt in Kolo (former Ostrowski factory). In the winter 1941/42 he was ordered to repair the damaged cooler in the biggest of Chelmno vans... The most interesting in his report is the description of the exhaust system. He has noticed that the exhaust pipe was divided into three parts. First and third were done of metal as in normal cars. But, the central part was done of the elastic, "hydraulic" pipe which could joint both standard tubes or could be screwed to the hole in the van's floor."

http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/gas_chambers_vans.html

The only elastic materials in those days was either rubber or synthetic rubber, high temperature plastics being in their infancy. There are many, many other references in the literature to the hoses on the gas vans, including, from a Soviet archive, an order for 100 meters (109 YARDS?!) of replacement hose.

The problem with that? Well, first, here are modern rubber exhaust hoses, for use in garages.

http://oemproamtools.com/garage_exhaust_hose.htm

And here's a description of properties for different grades of rubber hose.

http://www.quickcutgasket.com/materials.html

Modern garage hoses are made out of VITON (Fluoroelastomer), a Dupont superrubber with "excellent resistance to high temperatures, ozone, oxygen, fuels, mineral oil and synthetic hydraulic fluids. Maximum operating temperatures run from 400 degrees F in continuous service up to 500 degrees F in intermittent service."

From the first link, notice three things about the hoses.

1. They have almost twice the diameter of the exhaust pipe. When the exhaust gases enter the hose, they double their volume, and under Boyle's Law, that means their temperature drops by half.

2. Besides the increase in volume, the inside of the hoses are glazed to extreme smoothness. These two details mean little or no backpressure in the long hose. Backpressure will raise exhaust manifold temperature and pressures, and create shock waves. All this will swiftly ruin an engine.

3. The hoses vent from the exhaust pipe into the atmosphere. This means at the exit point of the hose, air pressure is, if the garage is at sea level, approximately 15-16 psi. This is extremely low compared to pressures in the engine and the pipe. An area of low pressure at the exit point means that a strong draft is created from the air intake, through the engine and out through the exhaust.
***************

In the 1940's, rubber hoses that could be used in the alleged Nazi gas wagons would have to be Buna-N (Buna Nitrile), the only synthetic rubber in mass production at the time that could be used at moderately high temperatures.

None of the three conditions for hose use in a modern garage would be present in a Nazi gas wagon as they are described.

1. The rubber hose as described in the Nazi gas wagons are the same size as the exhaust pipe. Temperatures will not drop by expansion.

"At the exhaust-pipe an exhaust-hose was fixed which was led from the exterior to the bottom of the van. In this van we drilled a hole with diameter of about 58-60 mm, the diameter of the exhaust-pipe.."

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/chelmno/sonderdruck.html

2. The hoses had no modifications for handling hot exhaust, such as internal glazing. Backpressure and shock waves would develop.

3. The hoses vent into the interior of the cargo cab. This means that, even with a clapper valve on top of the cab, both temperature and pressure inside the cargo cab will increase. This will create backpressure in the exhaust pipe, shockwaves in the exhaust train, and raise the temperature of the exhaust, perhaps the easiest way to ruin a diesel engine.

But, the focus of this essay are the thermal properties of Buna-N.

Buna-N (Buna Nitrile) "Has excellent resistance to petroleum oils and gasolines. Resistance to hydrocarbons, acids and bases is good. The temperature range is -40˚F to +212 degrees F, intermittent to +230 degrees F."

Note that in the high temperature version, the kind used in radiator hoses, Buna-N fails at 275 degrees F (135 degrees C).

http://www.rlhudson.com/nitrile.html

Diesel fuel has an autoignition temperature of 210 degrees C (427 degrees F). This is pretty much the exhaust temperature at the manifold too, and temperatures rise as the engine uses more power.

Some cooling takes place in the exhaust pipe due to radiation and expansion, and exhaust temperatures between different diesel engines varies widely - in a big 18 wheel modern rig, 740 degrees F at the exhaust stack is common when running at full load, but looking at various graphs, the average tailpipe temperature for a diesel truck, such as a UPS van, is 200 degrees C (427 degrees F) at idle, and 350 degrees C (712 degrees F) at full load.

In its high temperature version, Buna-N fails at 275 degrees F.

At idle, the exhaust temperature of a moderately sized diesel engine is 427 degrees F.

The difference is 152 degrees higher than the failure temperature of Buna-N.

So. The big question.

How did the Nazi's keep the rubber hose connecting the exhaust pipe to the cargo compartment from melting?

OR - remember, diesel exhaust has an oxygen surplus - from bursting into flame?

 

[WingNut_N_Bolt]

Yeah right. Glycol-based solvent ink on the market in the 1940s....

BULLSHIT!

No such thing dumbass!

First came out in 1951.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...ink,+1951+"glycol+solvent"&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1

And nothing you say is going to change that. Dream on.

That document is in German, don't you have a source that's in in English?

 

[ImpWizard]

As soon as one ridiculous theory is disproven, they move right on to the next.

You know what I notice? I notice very easily that the "ridiculous theories" being disproven are ones like the story about the alleged "gas vans" and the "diesel gas chambers" that unculbact and Lovelynice utterly destroyed as having any credibility whatsoever - and I notice that NONE of you liars has been able to rationally or scientifically defend the story of those "gas vans" and "diesel gas chambers" as having any validity.

I also notice that your first reaction when shown up as fools is a sort of religious fervour of indignation and insults - a clear sign that it's not the facts which are important, it's your belief in them. Then you go away and disappear in a sulk. Usually with some self defensive line like

Live the delusion as you mistake your dismissal for some hollow victory..

- but if you read the thread, he got caught out bad - numerous times - and mostly reacted by jumping off the subject of the thread.

Bit like Drinking Cap really. I've only seen him post anything to do with the subject once, and once only.

 

[unculbact]

That document is in German, don't you have a source that's in in English?

Only the introduction and credits are in German. Beginning on page 9, it's in English.

 

[ImpWizard]

As questionable as Wikipedia is, it's George Washington himself when it comes to truthiness compared to the sources you've cited.

"truthiness"??? Childish spelling Drinking Cap. Are you drunk or are you are a child?

Wikipedia is soooooo trustworthy - NOT!

Does this look like a "mass-grave" filled with dead bodies to you?

http://xs76.xs.to/pics/06152/wiu62888.JPG

Can you point out the bones to me? All I can see are pieces of timber and the typical kind rubbish you'd find at any building site...

But it's falsely captioned as a "mass grave" on the Treblinka page on the Wikpedia site.

While they completely ignore any scientific evidence to the contrary...

‘No Jewish mass grave’ in Poland
The Canberra Times
January 24, 2000

ADELAIDE: An Australian Holocaust revisionist claims he has proof a mass grave never existed at Treblinka in Poland.
Data collected during a week at Treblinka. using ground penetrating radar, found no soil disturbance consistent with 870,000 Jews having been buried there.
Richard Krege, 30, of Canberra, said data collected during a week at Treblinka. using ground penetrating radar, found no soil disturbance consistent with 870,000 Jews having been buried there.
‘Historians say that the bodies were exhumed and cremated towards the end of the Treblinka camp’s use in 1943. but we found no indication that any mass graves ever existed," he said.
‘Personally, I don’t think there was a [death]-camp there at all.’
Mr Krege, who will address a public meeting in Adelaide tonight at the start of an eight-day tour, said he had gone to Poland in October last year to "find the truth".
A qualified electronics engineer, he is an associate of the Adelaide Institute run by German-born revisionist Dr Fredrick Toben, whom he is accompanying on the tour.
Mr Krege said he would like to see an international group formed, possibly under the auspices of the United Nations, to use ground penetrating radar at all concentration camps in Europe.
He said he was in the process of having other experts review the data he collected, but was confident that they would also conclude the mass burial did not happen.
The young Australian-born man admitted that he expected to be labelled a racist and anti-Semitic.


Ground penetrating radar is a standard industrial technique for discovering the location of graves, i.e. holes in the ground that have been dug and covered with dirt. GPR detects any large-scale disturbances in the soil structure to a normal effective depth of four or five meters, and sometimes up to ten meters. (GPR devices are routinely used around the world by geologists, archeologists, and police.) In its Treblinka investigation, Krege's team also carried out visual soil inspections, and used an auger to take numerous soil core samples. GPR scans were taken at both Treblinka and Belzec at the locations described above where the mass graves are likely to have been. The results suggest that there is no evidence of any massive soil disturbance one would expect to find were there mass graves at these locations, as alleged. More work is in progress so that definitive conclusions can be made. Both these camp sites are of high historical value and importance, no destructive investigative technique is permitted, such as digging a trench, and this rules out most traditional archeological techniques. As a result alternative non-destructive techniques were researched and it was decided that GPR would be suitable for this purpose.

Here's an example of the radar images gained.
http://xs76.xs.to/pics/06151/ground_scan.jpg

and the scanner
http://xs76.xs.to/pics/06151/treblinka_scanner.jpg

There's still a $165,000 reward for anyone who can find the gigantic mass graves with the requisite material evidence of thousands of dead bodies. It's been up for six years now, and still no takers.

Well, it doesn't look like Wikipedia had much truth in it there. That's Lovelynice=1, Wikipedia=0

LOL, you noticed that too!

And zipman gave a good display of typical blindness because he didn't even notice.

 

[ImpWizard]

For an original piece of research, I've noted one big flaw in the Nazi gas van fable that demonstrates the technical illiteracy of the propagandists who thought up the story.

Supposedly, the exhaust from the diesel in a gas van was connected to the cargo compartment by a detachable rubber hose.

"However, at least three witnesses were able to see the vehicles from the short distance. Mr. Jozef Piaskowski (b. 1908) was employed in the Reichsstraßenbauamt in Kolo (former Ostrowski factory). In the winter 1941/42 he was ordered to repair the damaged cooler in the biggest of Chelmno vans... The most interesting in his report is the description of the exhaust system. He has noticed that the exhaust pipe was divided into three parts. First and third were done of metal as in normal cars. But, the central part was done of the elastic, "hydraulic" pipe which could joint both standard tubes or could be screwed to the hole in the van's floor."

http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/gas_chambers_vans.html

The only elastic materials in those days was either rubber or synthetic rubber, high temperature plastics being in their infancy. There are many, many other references in the literature to the hoses on the gas vans, including, from a Soviet archive, an order for 100 meters (109 YARDS?!) of replacement hose.

The problem with that? Well, first, here are modern rubber exhaust hoses, for use in garages.

http://oemproamtools.com/garage_exhaust_hose.htm

And here's a description of properties for different grades of rubber hose.

http://www.quickcutgasket.com/materials.html

Modern garage hoses are made out of VITON (Fluoroelastomer), a Dupont superrubber with "excellent resistance to high temperatures, ozone, oxygen, fuels, mineral oil and synthetic hydraulic fluids. Maximum operating temperatures run from 400 degrees F in continuous service up to 500 degrees F in intermittent service."

From the first link, notice three things about the hoses.

1. They have almost twice the diameter of the exhaust pipe. When the exhaust gases enter the hose, they double their volume, and under Boyle's Law, that means their temperature drops by half.

2. Besides the increase in volume, the inside of the hoses are glazed to extreme smoothness. These two details mean little or no backpressure in the long hose. Backpressure will raise exhaust manifold temperature and pressures, and create shock waves. All this will swiftly ruin an engine.

3. The hoses vent from the exhaust pipe into the atmosphere. This means at the exit point of the hose, air pressure is, if the garage is at sea level, approximately 15-16 psi. This is extremely low compared to pressures in the engine and the pipe. An area of low pressure at the exit point means that a strong draft is created from the air intake, through the engine and out through the exhaust.
***************

In the 1940's, rubber hoses that could be used in the alleged Nazi gas wagons would have to be Buna-N (Buna Nitrile), the only synthetic rubber in mass production at the time that could be used at moderately high temperatures.

None of the three conditions for hose use in a modern garage would be present in a Nazi gas wagon as they are described.

1. The rubber hose as described in the Nazi gas wagons are the same size as the exhaust pipe. Temperatures will not drop by expansion.

"At the exhaust-pipe an exhaust-hose was fixed which was led from the exterior to the bottom of the van. In this van we drilled a hole with diameter of about 58-60 mm, the diameter of the exhaust-pipe.."

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/chelmno/sonderdruck.html

2. The hoses had no modifications for handling hot exhaust, such as internal glazing. Backpressure and shock waves would develop.

3. The hoses vent into the interior of the cargo cab. This means that, even with a clapper valve on top of the cab, both temperature and pressure inside the cargo cab will increase. This will create backpressure in the exhaust pipe, shockwaves in the exhaust train, and raise the temperature of the exhaust, perhaps the easiest way to ruin a diesel engine.

But, the focus of this essay are the thermal properties of Buna-N.

Buna-N (Buna Nitrile) "Has excellent resistance to petroleum oils and gasolines. Resistance to hydrocarbons, acids and bases is good. The temperature range is -40˚F to +212 degrees F, intermittent to +230 degrees F."

Note that in the high temperature version, the kind used in radiator hoses, Buna-N fails at 275 degrees F (135 degrees C).

http://www.rlhudson.com/nitrile.html

Diesel fuel has an autoignition temperature of 210 degrees C (427 degrees F). This is pretty much the exhaust temperature at the manifold too, and temperatures rise as the engine uses more power.

Some cooling takes place in the exhaust pipe due to radiation and expansion, and exhaust temperatures between different diesel engines varies widely - in a big 18 wheel modern rig, 740 degrees F at the exhaust stack is common when running at full load, but looking at various graphs, the average tailpipe temperature for a diesel truck, such as a UPS van, is 200 degrees C (427 degrees F) at idle, and 350 degrees C (712 degrees F) at full load.

In its high temperature version, Buna-N fails at 275 degrees F.

At idle, the exhaust temperature of a moderately sized diesel engine is 427 degrees F.

The difference is 152 degrees higher than the failure temperature of Buna-N.

So. The big question.

How did the Nazi's keep the rubber hose connecting the exhaust pipe to the cargo compartment from melting?

OR - remember, diesel exhaust has an oxygen surplus - from bursting into flame?

Oh great idea there.

So, if the diesel engine is running on idle with no load, it probably won't kill anybody at all because the rubber hose melts or catches fire long before then.

OR

If the diesel engine is running with a heavy load, the exhaust would be even hotter I presume, thus it's likely to melt the rubber hose quicker still, probably starts to burn and has a better chance of catching fire.

OR

If the diesel engine is running at the most lethal possible way (heavy load, choked and suffocating engine, unburned fuel blowing out the exhaust in a fine white aerated mist), the rubber hose which we know is going to melt anyway, and has a good chance of catching fire, - oh that's not good - with all that aerated unburned fuel being pumped down the exhaust pipe and into the cargo-cabin.

BOOM !!!

That would certainly kill people. 50-80 passengers, plus driver, plus anyone else standing too close nearby as the "gas van" exploded. Go through a lot of trucks.

 

[hurricane64]

My God, is this exercise in idiocy still going on?

 

[hurricane64]

The Crimson Permanent Assurance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ImpWizard]

I am so blind, I cannot see what makes either of those samples authentic.

Here's the postcard
http://judicial-inc.biz/Anne_f13.jpg
and from the cover of LIFE magazine
http://www.radioislam.org/annefrank/09.jpg


Here's the "diary"
http://www.radioislam.org/annefrank/10.jpg
http://judicial-inc.biz/Anne_f42.jpg


Notice the difference in signatures.
Top one is from the "diary" - bottom one is from the postcard
http://xs78.xs.to/pics/06171/signatures.GIF

 

[phrodeau]

Here's the "diary"
http://www.radioislam.org/annefrank/10.jpg
http://judicial-inc.biz/Anne_f42.jpg

Nothing here that looks like a signature. Of course, nobody would need to sign a diary, would they?

Notice the difference in signatures.
Top one is from the "diary" - bottom one is from the postcard
http://xs78.xs.to/pics/06171/signatures.GIF

I don't see a 'signature from the "diary"'. Which page did it come from?

 

[Drinking Cap]

"truthiness"??? Childish spelling Drinking Cap. Are you drunk or are you are a child?

Foreigners are cute.