Why I despise subs

[woodgie2]

Hello Woodgie,
I am not a Master, nor do I want to be, or a Dom, I am talking about real relationships where the rules are not as clearly spelled out. In order not to repeat myself please note my reply to Pixie.

If the rules are not clearly spelled out? Do you know ANY relationship they are? Hell if that was the case I might still be married! *lol*

Tell me, did you TALK to her? Did you really try to find out and understand her point of view? Did you try to define areas of the relationship you were uncomfortable with?

I'm not trying to jump on you, but to make you see that there might be more behind it than your initial conclusions.

 

[Pixie Mischief]

cocktail42: you need to learn to think before you talk.

 

[Pixie]

Why I despise ignorance

Through a recent serious experience and some not so serious past experiences it has come to my attention why ignorant buggers should be wiped off this earth. An ignorant bugger is someone who wants to control and debase, not love, not like, not see others as humans. Anything different is seen as weakness by the ignorant bugger. Often they appear to be, and perhaps are, intelligent, humane, and emotionally warm people. In fact they are devoid of the ability to love and care because they are not willing to try and understand how others define love or care for themselves.
If you will not bow down to and agree with an ignorant bugger they will turn against you. With more ferocity than any a sadistic master could muster they will try to wipe you out, humiliate you and dehumanize you because of their lack of satisfaction of you not living in "a normal" manner. I see them as the Undead in the "Night of the Living Dead."
I am verklemt, discuss amongst yourselves, for you cannot discuss with an ignorant bugger.

 

[cocktail42]

If you are not a Master or a Dom..where is the connection to your own reality here if you don't mind the question?
D/s relationships are as real as any others but to discuss the topic here it would be valuable to know how submissives connect in your reality.

Fair question and I would like to explain it clearly if I can. I am not talking about a voluntary game between two adults (not my cup of tea but I consider it a form of roll playing - generally not my cup of tea either - I don't even like tea, I only drink coffee).
I am talking about two people meeting, getting involved and one wanting to be debased and dominated. This is an unspoken desire, even cloaked by 'normal' behavior. When that service is not provided the 'sub' then turns on the non-volunteer and seeks to reduce his (in my case) humanity, existence and future possibility to trust and love into nothingness.
In my case, I refused to comply with the attack; and I am trying to understand what would drive one person, who ostensibly seems loving and intelligent (therefore seems to be capable of being such), to want to debase themselves and be cruel enough to try to destroy the humanity in another person.
I am sorry but that is as clear as I can make it.

 

[cocktail42]

If the rules are not clearly spelled out? Do you know ANY relationship they are? Hell if that was the case I might still be married! *lol*

Tell me, did you TALK to her? Did you really try to find out and understand her point of view? Did you try to define areas of the relationship you were uncomfortable with?

I'm not trying to jump on you, but to make you see that there might be more behind it than your initial conclusions.

I might never have married (at least that time) if I had believed the rules she was laying out for me. But that is another story a long time ago.
This one is different - all the talking had to take place at a distance after the relationship was a fait accompli. While there were self-references by her "to being a piece of shit" I find it hard to believe that someone would actually think of themselves in those terms.
What more there is behind it is what I am trying to analyze and understand. In part that is why I started this thread.
Thank you for your kind thoughts by the way.

 

[Pixie Mischief]

I LOVE your post pixie LMAO!

 

[Pixie Mischief]

Reminds me of an ignorant Christian who wants told me I Wasnt allowed to have sex because I Was disabled.. I was like WTF???!!!!
KISS MY ASS MAN! I didnt say it but thats what I was thinking.
he was like "you need to go see your church and ask if you are allowed"
Hell fucking no! LMAO
if I wanna fuck I WILL fuck lol

Ignorancy makes me sick.
I respect people's opinions but some opinions are just POOP.

 

[woodgie2]

I might never have married (at least that time) if I had believed the rules she was laying out for me. But that is another story a long time ago.
This one is different - all the talking had to take place at a distance after the relationship was a fait accompli. While there were self-references by her "to being a piece of shit" I find it hard to believe that someone would actually think of themselves in those terms.
What more there is behind it is what I am trying to analyze and understand. In part that is why I started this thread.
Thank you for your kind thoughts by the way.

Well thanks for the segue!

Another point about D/s relationships is their ability to build and bond people. It's more than possible to increase someone's self esteem and image of self worth in the surroundings of a D/s relationship.

If she really thought she was "A piece of shit" (which may not actually be, it may have been an attempt at getting you to think a certain way) then did you try to convince her otherwise? In terms she'd like to have heard?

The fact she turned against you in the way you outline seems to me to prove there was some love there as people rarely put effort into being angry if they don't care.

 

[Bidin~Time]

This seems pretty straightforward to me, cocktail42 got involved with someone. Her preferences and his weren't the same, and because of this she attacked him emotionally. Now he is trying to understand why he was attacked by someone he cared for, and feels betrayed that her preferences weren't made more clear to him in the beginning, before either of them would have been hurt.

I can't answer your questions cocktail42, that preference is not mine. I just wanted to help clarify your position so these ppl would stop being defensive and answer your question, if it can in fact be answered at all.

I'm sorry you were hurt.

 

[woodgie2]

Reminds me of an ignorant Christian who wants told me I Wasnt allowed to have sex because I Was disabled.. I was like WTF???!!!!
KISS MY ASS MAN! I didnt say it but thats what I was thinking.
he was like "you need to go see your church and ask if you are allowed"
Hell fucking no! LMAO
if I wanna fuck I WILL fuck lol

Ignorancy makes me sick.
I respect people's opinions but some opinions are just POOP.

GGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

People speak crap, great big piles of crap.

 

[MissTaken]

Fair question and I would like to explain it clearly if I can. I am not talking about a voluntary game between two adults (not my cup of tea but I consider it a form of roll playing - generally not my cup of tea either - I don't even like tea, I only drink coffee).
I am talking about two people meeting, getting involved and one wanting to be debased and dominated. This is an unspoken desire, even cloaked by 'normal' behavior. When that service is not provided the 'sub' then turns on the non-volunteer and seeks to reduce his (in my case) humanity, existence and future possibility to trust and love into nothingness.
In my case, I refused to comply with the attack; and I am trying to understand what would drive one person, who ostensibly seems loving and intelligent (therefore seems to be capable of being such), to want to debase themselves and be cruel enough to try to destroy the humanity in another person.
I am sorry but that is as clear as I can make it.

She doesn't sound like a submissive.
She sounds like a manipulative bitch.

The two are not necessarily the same.

 

[Gilly Bean]

Point blank, mister newbie poster, every single person has their own likes a dislikes. Just because you don't enjoy something, doesn't mean others don't, either.

Get off your pedestal, and learn to live with us mere humans, and stop pretending you are a God.

 

[Pixie Mischief]

GGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

People speak crap, great big piles of crap.

I'm not so much allowed to swear anymore LMAO mom threaten to put a jar
and make me put a quarter each time I swear in it.
so I say POOP instead of shit now hehe

 

[cocktail42]

Well thanks for the segue!

Another point about D/s relationships is their ability to build and bond people. It's more than possible to increase someone's self esteem and image of self worth in the surroundings of a D/s relationship.

If she really thought she was "A piece of shit" (which may not actually be, it may have been an attempt at getting you to think a certain way) then did you try to convince her otherwise? In terms she'd like to have heard?

The fact she turned against you in the way you outline seems to me to prove there was some love there as people rarely put effort into being angry if they don't care.

It's hard to explain this, but I was left with an artifact when she said good bye to me (the "I am no good for you" speech).
The artifact stated, very clearly and for the first time and last, that she needed to be debased, to crawl for the shreds of love I was willing to give her. In fact by making it to easy, by adoring her I was choking her.
In my world adoring someone is a good thing, not bad. In fact, in the past - like most men, I have been accused of not being adoring enough, not caring enough. It would be my good luck to finally adore someone and it's the wrong one. Go figure.
My goal here is to leave all of this behind - I don't want another woman to suffer for the sins of her sister; I don't want to become cold and uncaring because of a single incident. So I am looking for rational explanations that will provide finality. I think I am there but I think others might benefit as well - or not.

 

[Gilly Bean]

It's hard to explain this, but I was left with an artifact when she said good bye to me (the "I am no good for you" speech).
The artifact stated, very clearly and for the first time and last, that she needed to be debased, to crawl for the shreds of love I was willing to give her. In fact by making it to easy, by adoring her I was choking her.
In my world adoring someone is a good thing, not bad. In fact, in the past - like most men, I have been accused of not being adoring enough, not caring enough. It would be my good luck to finally adore someone and it's the wrong one. Go figure.
My goal here is to leave all of this behind - I don't want another woman to suffer for the sins of her sister; I don't want to become cold and uncaring because of a single incident. So I am looking for rational explanations that will provide finality. I think I am there but I think others might benefit as well - or not.

Here's a hint, when wanting a 'rational explanation that will provide finality' don't put down an entire group of people because you don't understand them.

Try asking about it, rather than telling us what shit we all are.


And yet, so many newbies around this place wonder just why we treat em like we do.

 

[Pixie Mischief]

But thats not the same thing as a D/s relationship.
I dont see what the releavence is.
The girl had issues. No selfesteem she felt she wasnt good enough for you.
Wasnt good enough for your love.
Not the same at all.

It's hard to explain this, but I was left with an artifact when she said good bye to me (the "I am no good for you" speech).
The artifact stated, very clearly and for the first time and last, that she needed to be debased, to crawl for the shreds of love I was willing to give her. In fact by making it to easy, by adoring her I was choking her.
In my world adoring someone is a good thing, not bad. In fact, in the past - like most men, I have been accused of not being adoring enough, not caring enough. It would be my good luck to finally adore someone and it's the wrong one. Go figure.
My goal here is to leave all of this behind - I don't want another woman to suffer for the sins of her sister; I don't want to become cold and uncaring because of a single incident. So I am looking for rational explanations that will provide finality. I think I am there but I think others might benefit as well - or not.

 

[cocktail42]

Here's a hint, when wanting a 'rational explanation that will provide finality' don't put down an entire group of people because you don't understand them.

Try asking about it, rather than telling us what shit we all are.


And yet, so many newbies around this place wonder just why we treat em like we do.

Hello Gilly I have so often admired your AV's and you in them. I have been hauled over the coals for my statements here before and I can hold my own. Gilly you might want to note (in my subsequent postings anyway) that I make a distinction between the roll playing of a sub with a domor master and the unwilling complicity by one with the other. I think that is a big distinction.
Good to meet you.
How long do you have to be here before you stop being a newbie?

 

[cocktail42]

Point blank, mister newbie poster, every single person has their own likes a dislikes. Just because you don't enjoy something, doesn't mean others don't, either.

Get off your pedestal, and learn to live with us mere humans, and stop pretending you are a God.

Who's pretending?

 

[Pixie Mischief]

Now you say so but you where saying it was the same thing.
giving D/s aspects to none D/s situations.
I agree she has pretty AVs hehe
as for being a newbie.. hmm not sure.. over a month this I know.

Hello Gilly I have so often admired your AV's and you in them. I have been hauled over the coals for my statements here before and I can hold my own. Gilly you might want to note (in my subsequent postings anyway) that I make a distinction between the roll playing of a sub with a domor master and the unwilling complicity by one with the other. I think that is a big distinction.
Good to meet you.
How long do you have to be here before you stop being a newbie?

 

[Gilly Bean]

What you are describing ISN"T a sub, though. It's a badly abused person, who has been told through life that her only role is to be underneath people.

D/s is NOT about role play. You aren't following what others are saying, and you aren't trying to. You keep making what others do into nothing more than some play acting to spice up the bedroom, when it's not.

A REAL D/s relationship isn't about demeaning a person, or taking everything they feel away from them.

Any real Dom out there can tell you that in order to commit yourself to that type of relationship, you both have to want it, and you both have to feel something for the other. It doesn't work any other way.

The way you two went about it is more play acting than any real D/s relationship.


And hey, a person stops being a newbie when they figure out that they should think before posting, and that they should rationalize what they are posting. You posted that in a way to provoke a fight, not to garner information.

When you can start trying to get along, others will try to get along back. Until then, hey, good luck.

 

[Gilly Bean]

Who's pretending?

Yeah, that just won you my respect. Really.

 

[Pixie Mischief]

*applauses to Gilly*

What you are describing ISN"T a sub, though. It's a badly abused person, who has been told through life that her only role is to be underneath people.

D/s is NOT about role play. You aren't following what others are saying, and you aren't trying to. You keep making what others do into nothing more than some play acting to spice up the bedroom, when it's not.

A REAL D/s relationship isn't about demeaning a person, or taking everything they feel away from them.

Any real Dom out there can tell you that in order to commit yourself to that type of relationship, you both have to want it, and you both have to feel something for the other. It doesn't work any other way.

The way you two went about it is more play acting than any real D/s relationship.


And hey, a person stops being a newbie when they figure out that they should think before posting, and that they should rationalize what they are posting. You posted that in a way to provoke a fight, not to garner information.

When you can start trying to get along, others will try to get along back. Until then, hey, good luck.

 

[Pixie Mischief]

*points to the thread name* you stated you hated subs.
what you discribed wasnt even a sub.

 

[cocktail42]

Reminds me of an ignorant Christian who wants told me I Wasnt allowed to have sex because I Was disabled.. I was like WTF???!!!!
KISS MY ASS MAN! I didnt say it but thats what I was thinking.
he was like "you need to go see your church and ask if you are allowed"
Hell fucking no! LMAO
if I wanna fuck I WILL fuck lol

Ignorancy makes me sick.
I respect people's opinions but some opinions are just POOP.

I hope you don't tie me in with this ignoramus (watch what you say next).
I made a documentary on a day in a friend of mine's life - where the point was that a disabled woman can and must live life in the mainstream of society and that certainly includes sex. The disabled must never be disassociated from society, it's a loss for them and a loss to society.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Fair question and I would like to explain it clearly if I can. I am not talking about a voluntary game between two adults (not my cup of tea but I consider it a form of roll playing - generally not my cup of tea either - I don't even like tea, I only drink coffee).
I am talking about two people meeting, getting involved and one wanting to be debased and dominated. This is an unspoken desire, even cloaked by 'normal' behavior. When that service is not provided the 'sub' then turns on the non-volunteer and seeks to reduce his (in my case) humanity, existence and future possibility to trust and love into nothingness.
In my case, I refused to comply with the attack; and I am trying to understand what would drive one person, who ostensibly seems loving and intelligent (therefore seems to be capable of being such), to want to debase themselves and be cruel enough to try to destroy the humanity in another person.
I am sorry but that is as clear as I can make it.

I live in a loving 24/7 Domme/submissive lifestyle..successfully and with love for the past 3 years..plus the time together of one year of getting to know each other..it is no role play but a lifestyle I am coming from...to each their own.
Having said that...IF I were to allow the love to overcome My submissives need for My strength and control in whatever manner W/we both had agreed to...our relationship would take on a different dynamic than the one agreed to.
My love for him would weaken My Domination and his love for Me would strengthen his need to submit to Me. My love could not keep him happy and his unhappiness could not keep My love.
Perhaps this lady saw you as a Dominant male...her dream...perhaps you even portrayed yourself as such in your manner even if not in your words.
Perhaps when your love deepened you naturally became softer and as her emotions deepened she naturally wanted more of your Dominating nature.
Neither is right or wrong...but without matching needs..the relationship cannot work.
A submissive will turn on her or his heel and head for the door much quicker than a Dom/me will as they have been looking for a long time for the reality of someone who truly wants to keep them on their knees. Yes they can be vicious...but it is a survival when the other partner does not understand and will not let go without guilt or arrogance.
Yes there is role play..and lots of it...submissives are some of the strongest proudest people I have had the pleasure of knowing in this lifetsyle over many many years....when they say they are shit..when We say they are shit...it is role play...neither really believes it..and both know neither really believes it...complex? Perhaps...
So I must admit I still do not see the correlation between submissives and your experience...