Why Has the Quality of Submissions to Literotica Plummeted so Dramatically?

[ttvttp]

I think as the stories have become larger in quantity the readership has expanded. There are a much wider variety of authors and readers. I think that can only be a good thing.

 

[HectorBidon]

Here's an author who holds his own, even in our current watered-down, slipshod, peri-apocalyptic era: wastelandwriter. His recent story Divine Job Benefits is literate, erotic, and kind hearted. I would say it deserves it's current 4.83 rating and can stand proudly with the top stories of previous eras. Quality stories are still being written.

 

[Blind_Justice]

There's nothing wrong with a few strokers. Just don't overdo it because it might not be good for your eyesight.

Well, that particular ship has already sailed. Made a few trips across the Mediterranean, got refitted twice and is now proudly displayed on a dock near Malta.

Nice Cindy Lauper quote too.

 

[moewest1749]

As a complete newbie who REALLY had to build up the courage to post my first story on Lit (and haven't posted since) I think your comment negates the value of improvement. For me, few experiences on this site have been better than getting a great VE who is detailed but not an arse and being followed by writers that I know write better than me. I would say that maybe you need to refine your searches and expand your mind a bit.

 

[ishtat]

I am not a writer of stories but I read Lit stories in industrial quantities and have done since before TX turned up, even Keith D (just) - yes there was such a time. The number of exceptional writers has always been few but I think that the number of good to very good writers has increased steadily in recent years.

The recent 'One night in?' entries illustrate this. 45+ entries for a non-competition is exceptional. My estimate, subjective of course, is that over 60% fall into the good/very good bracket. Two writers are I reckon, exceptional. There is also some formulaic stuff for the strokers which by the comments is clearly appreciated, and some poor quality stuff, but less than in the general run of stories.

There is no reasonable argument that standards have fallen, and plenty to suggest that they are slowly improving. The leadership of some of the folks here whilst occasionally contentious, (and why not) has been a catalyst for that improvement.

And when considering the past it's worth remembering that even writers as good as Shanglan, Dr M and Colleen Thomas wrote the occasional stinker.

Readers progress too. I recently came across a couple of comments made years ago and felt like hiding away in embarassment.

 

[ishtat]

x2 xxx

 

[Hypoxia]

The OP contention was bogus and/or a troll. Drop it.

 

[ChloeTzang]

The OP contention was bogus and/or a troll. Drop it.

Ohhhh but it’s an interesting topic, and I wrote Auden in to my Midnight at the Villa Diodati as a wannabe author who idolizes Byron .... he dies, alas, but he is forever immortalized....

 

[jomar]

I used to run the Authors' Hangout Last Place contest to highlight contest entries that were unpopular. Some of the Last Place winning stories were very good indeed.

...

LOL, I remember that! Not claiming my story was good, but I proudly won last place in your AH contest with an Earth Day contest story (back in the glory days of lit ).

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

There are very talented writers on Literotica, and talented new writers joining everyday. As in any industry, recognition and reputation come with time, long after talent is demonstrated. Regardless of the freshness of our perspectives, lyricism of our voices or cleverness of our plots and erotique, we new writers simply don’t have time on our side, and seasoned writers do.

Some stories and authors are so canonic to the Literotica library that their mere titles/pseudos are shorthand for a genre’s benchmark standard. Like “Threads: The Island.” It’s hard if not impossible for any new writer to self-promote to the level of word of mouth recommendation and site exposure those works get. Which may contribute to the (fallacious) conclusion that the quality of work we new writers produce is “lacking.”

That being said, my story “Counting Pennies” has twice been David to “Thread’s” Goliath in the I/T Hall of Fame, and is currently ahead of it in the Hall of Fame again. The toppled hierarchy won’t last long, if even a day; “Threads” has nearly 11k votes, and the trolls are savage.

But it’s a reminder to me that I can hold down a seat at the table.

 

[Hypoxia]

From somewhat successful SF author Larry Niven -- Niven's Laws of Writing:

1. Writers who write for other writers should write letters.
2. Never be embarrassed or ashamed about anything you choose to write. (Think of this before you send it to a market.)
3. Stories to end all stories on a given topic, don't.
4. It is a sin to waste the reader's time.
5. If you've nothing to say, say it any way you like. Stylistic innovations, contorted story lines or none, exotic or genderless pronouns, internal inconsistencies, the recipe for preparing your lover as a cannibal banquet: feel free. If what you have to say is important and/or difficult to follow, use the simplest language possible. If the reader doesn't get it, then let it not be your fault.
6. Everybody talks first draft.

This from the scion of great illicit wealth who had the luxury of taking a decade to learn how to write. We probably don't have so long to master it. But we can aspire to quality writing, right? Hey, even 'low' is a quality.

PS: "There is a technical, literary term for those who mistake the opinions and beliefs of characters in a novel for those of the author. The term is 'idiot'."

 

[rescatooor]

Wow. Am I late to the party. Anyway, here are somethings I have to say. To whom ever it is of use.

But first to Auden, or whatever the OP's name, specifically.

Guten Tag. Bitte seien Sie kein Arschloch.
I can't speak for the decline in quality since I'm a relative newcomer. Ten years ago I shouldn't have been on this site. And when I did come here, I too had difficulties finding stories that I really liked. So here's my five-step plan that will get you back on track:

Step 1: Write what you'd like to read.
Step 2: See who else likes your writing and see whom they follow and favorite.
Step 3: Read that writing.
Step 4: If you don't like that writing, you can question their judgment. But if you do so, their opinion on your story becomes equally as invalid as that of the story you've just read.
Step 5: Repeat the cycle but improve.

You're very welcome.

Then the rest:
- Never read 5SoG and wouldn't because of the borderline plagiarism that I do not approve of.
- Twilight, on the other hand, is alright. It was what the teenage me consumed.
- Fiction, imo, is fantasy, and everything goes. That includes breaking whatever commonly accepted BDSM protocol there is. I do not tell incest writers that their incest is wrong either.
- Anaïs Nin is alright but I dare say Literotica has many better stories up on its site. Nin's stories, at least to me, feel a little pointless half the time.
- There was probably something else that was on the past 7 pages that was worth addressing but I forget.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

From somewhat successful SF author Larry Niven -- Niven's Laws of Writing:

1. Writers who write for other writers should write letters.
2. Never be embarrassed or ashamed about anything you choose to write. (Think of this before you send it to a market.)
3. Stories to end all stories on a given topic, don't.
4. It is a sin to waste the reader's time.
5. If you've nothing to say, say it any way you like. Stylistic innovations, contorted story lines or none, exotic or genderless pronouns, internal inconsistencies, the recipe for preparing your lover as a cannibal banquet: feel free. If what you have to say is important and/or difficult to follow, use the simplest language possible. If the reader doesn't get it, then let it not be your fault.
6. Everybody talks first draft.

This from the scion of great illicit wealth who had the luxury of taking a decade to learn how to write. We probably don't have so long to master it. But we can aspire to quality writing, right? Hey, even 'low' is a quality.

PS: "There is a technical, literary term for those who mistake the opinions and beliefs of characters in a novel for those of the author. The term is 'idiot'."

All food for thought. What does number six mean?

 

[GroverLang]

I confess, I tried to read one, just to see what the fuss was about. Kinky romance being my thing too.

If she had posted it here, it would've been lucky to get in the 4 range. What a load of tripe.

But tripe from which she has earned in the region of $200,000,000.

E.L. James is a clever woman who realised if you took a run-of-the-mill book about boy meets girl - boy loses girl - boy gets girl back - they have a family and live happily ever after, and then stick in plenty of bdsm there are millions of ??????’s (men & women) around the world that will buy it for a cheap thrill. Irrespective of whether it’s well written. Many Lit readers will have bought the books, and enjoyed them, judging by the high ratings the multitude of crap stories get on here.

I’m jealous I didn’t think of it and make millions and I think I’m just one of many, whatever others may say.

 

[GroverLang]

As a complete newbie who REALLY had to build up the courage to post my first story on Lit (and haven't posted since) I think your comment negates the value of improvement. For me, few experiences on this site have been better than getting a great VE who is detailed but not an arse and being followed by writers that I know write better than me. I would say that maybe you need to refine your searches and expand your mind a bit.

What’s a VE, please?

 

[oggbashan]

What’s a VE, please?

Volunteer Editor

 

[NoJo]

The quality of *my* stories is improving, on the whole. Quality of readers, definitely dropping. I blame the Internet.

 

[Hypoxia]

6. Everybody talks first draft.

All food for thought. What does number six mean?

I've not asked Mr Niven, but my sorta-sis with multiple titles on the NYT-BS list hinted that anybody can and will write a lousy first draft with too many wrong words in wrong places. It's worrisome, or worse. Paid authors chatting on their work hover over the current first draft. First draft ain't shit. Shut up and rewrite.

The quality of *my* stories is improving, on the whole.

Mine are becoming so good that when I reach perfection I'll have nothing left to say. What a pickle.

Quality of readers, definitely dropping. I blame the Internet.

Ah, the InterWebz we inhabit! We have seen the enemy -- and it's us.

 

[rescatooor]

I've not asked Mr Niven, but my sorta-sis with multiple titles on the NYT-BS list hinted that anybody can and will write a lousy first draft with too many wrong words in wrong places. It's worrisome, or worse. Paid authors chatting on their work hover over the current first draft. First draft ain't shit. Shut up and rewrite.

Huh. I would've thought it meant that people say that their work is only in their first draft, but in truth they've been working on it for hours and they're just saying that because they don't want such harsh criticism. (At least not yet.)

I mean I really don't know but that was what I was guessing. I am partially guilty so it was the first thing that made sense to me.

 

[MelissaBaby]

It's those damn millennials, ruining everything.

 

[rescatooor]

It's those damn millennials, ruining everything.

I'm sorry

 

[PWilton]

"Why Has the Quality of Submissions to Literotica Plummeted so Dramatically?"

Perhaps the market has become saturated? And if the demand is not there, maybe (some) of the (more) talented people will not be as motivated to do the writing?

 

[sethp]

On a serious note, there are two problems here.

A. We think that our favorite stories/styles and Genres should be everyone's favorites. One poster above mentioned the series "Threads..." I tried reading it but didn't like it. Doesn't mean it's not a great story, but it's not my cup of tea. I realize that my stories and style are a niche that many people will dislike.

B. There are so many stories on Lit now, that of course the quality will be watered down a little bit, but that doesn't mean there aren't great authors churning out incredible works, still.

C. There is a third problem. Ratings are skewed a bit. You can't always go by ratings. Case in point, "The Busty Babysitter" has over 2.5k favorites and is apparently a great story. But it's not rated HOT. I have other stories that I know are sub par with very few favorites and they are certified HOT.

 

[Hypoxia]

Perhaps the market has become saturated? And if the demand is not there, maybe (some) of the (more) talented people will not be as motivated to do the writing?

I wasn't aware that LIT was a pr0n marketplace. IMHO Sturgeon's Law (*) applies: 95% of everything (especially writing) is crap. Laurel filters the worst here, much to our relief.

Anyway, we've no metric for submission or acceptance quality. How to measure 'quality' except bandwidth in resonant circuits? (The steeper the Q, the tighter the filter.) I'll suggest looking at reader satisfaction, at average vote scores over time (LW excepted). Does the aggregate of stories over the past year have a higher or lower average than from ten years back?

I don't think we can measure story saturation either. They're not magnetic. I guess 'demand' can be measured by a daily count of LIT hits. Is readership dropping, indicating lessening demand?

Again, the OP contention is baseless. That doesn't stop our rantings, hey?

-----

(*) This is distinct from Sturgeon's Creed: In the winter I'm a Buddhist, in the summer I'm a nudist.

 

[moewest1749]

Wow. Am I late to the party. Anyway, here are somethings I have to say. To whom ever it is of use.

But first to Auden, or whatever the OP's name, specifically.

Guten Tag. Bitte seien Sie kein Arschloch.
I can't speak for the decline in quality since I'm a relative newcomer. Ten years ago I shouldn't have been on this site. And when I did come here, I too had difficulties finding stories that I really liked. So here's my five-step plan that will get you back on track:

Step 1: Write what you'd like to read.
Step 2: See who else likes your writing and see whom they follow and favorite.
Step 3: Read that writing.
Step 4: If you don't like that writing, you can question their judgment. But if you do so, their opinion on your story becomes equally as invalid as that of the story you've just read.
Step 5: Repeat the cycle but improve.

You're very welcome.

Then the rest:
- Never read 5SoG and wouldn't because of the borderline plagiarism that I do not approve of.
- Twilight, on the other hand, is alright. It was what the teenage me consumed.
- Fiction, imo, is fantasy, and everything goes. That includes breaking whatever commonly accepted BDSM protocol there is. I do not tell incest writers that their incest is wrong either.
- Anaïs Nin is alright but I dare say Literotica has many better stories up on its site. Nin's stories, at least to me, feel a little pointless half the time.
- There was probably something else that was on the past 7 pages that was worth addressing but I forget.

Yes to all of this! Exactly what I try to do. I might not do it well...but I try.