Why has America created friction between herself and Europe?

[p_p_man]

In a word resentment.

Europe is a new nation in the making. Already we have a common currency, one of the greatest binding agencies there is. We are slowly but surely becoming the most powerful economic bloc on the planet. In many cases we follow combined foreign policies, soon we will have our own defence force separate from NATO and we have former East European countries queuing up to apply for membership.

America has lost more friends since Bush than she has gained. She doesn't like the idea of an economic bloc with all the economic power taking over the lead she once had, she is distrustful of a separate defence force and of the introduction of the former East European countries into Europe.

Or as SINthysist, and sometimes myeslf calls it, the NHRE.

Under Bush America has seen her world turned upside down, to the extent she is making friends with Russia in a desparate attempt to have an ally, any ally, somewhere in the world.

America, in short, is resentful of the growing strength of Europe...

ppman

 

[android1966]

But I don't wanna be in the fourth reich.

 

[p_p_man]

But I don't wanna be in the fourth reich.

You ain't gonna be in the fourth reich...

You'll be in the first European Empire...

 

[MechaBlade]

I keep finding out all the things America is doing through pp's posts.

 

[mig]

European Empire?.

The mind boggles.

Doesn't do much for my guts either.

 

[Humbert Humbert]

How droll.

 

[sch00lteacher]

Europe, well certain countries within Europe, always seem to forget what they 'owe' us. And when they won't back our plays, it pisses us off.

France... we should have just kept the damn place for ourselves, twice, or at least split it with you PP. I can still remember walking through the graveyards, looking at all the white stones neatly laid out. Then later stopping for gas or supper and being treated like somthing someone stepped in, because I was an American.

Then you go to the Netherlands, they find out you're an American, and you have to damn near beat them off with a stick they are so nice to you.

How long did we sit in Germany waiting for the Bear to attack? Now that he isn't a threat they don't need us. And they are not in a big hurry to back our plays in the fight against terror. If we pulled out, us, you, the Canuks, the French. How long would it take before Germany did something really stupid again? History people. Read your history.

 

[p_p_man]

How long did we sit in Germany waiting for the Bear to attack? Now that he isn't a threat they don't need us. And they are not in a big hurry to back our plays in the fight against terror. If we pulled out, us, you, the Canuks, the French. How long would it take before Germany did something really stupid again? History people. Read your history.

The French are like that with everybody, not just Americans. But like many things in life it's a generalisation. My French friends moan about America, as do most people in Europe, but they also moan about the English, Spanish, Dutch, Germans and anyone else who happens be topic of the time.

You say how long did America sit In Germany.

In Europe we see life in a different perspective. We see America helping Europe, backing Europe and fully supporting Europe with all the 'special relationships', Presidential visits and financial commitment BECAUSE...

America knew (as we did) that the battleground in a war between the USA and the old Soviet Union before it went nuclear if it ever did, would be Europe.

Europeans don't really think you professed to be our allies out of the goodness of your hearts, it was because we were the buffer and would have been the killing fields, between the two SuperPowers.

The reason America didn't pull out its troops from Germany years ago was because that country (and especially Berlin) was the front line of the buffer.

ppman

 

[zantac666]

Because bush and his people are assholes.

 

[solid_]

The French are like that with everybody, not just Americans. But like many things in life it's a generalisation. My French friends moan about America, as do most people in Europe, but they also moan about the English, Spanish, Dutch, Germans and anyone else who happens be topic of the time.

Thats where the big problem lyes with a united states of europe how long can it be before were all at each others throats. It will never work and will end in tears and bloodshed. Theres just to much bad history between the differnt country's.

We dont even have one common launguage for fucks sake and I for one aint going to learn french, german, spanish just to fit in untill the unelected twits at brussels devise a common language.

I'll rather keep the strong link's that we have with the US of A then being draged further in to a euro superstate where were all stabing each other in the back.

 

[p_p_man]

Thats where the big problem lyes with a united states of europe how long can it be before were all at each others throats. It will never work and will end in tears and bloodshed. Theres just to much bad history between the differnt country's.

We dont even have one common launguage for fucks sake and I for one aint going to learn french, german, spanish just to fit in untill the unelected twits at brussels devise a common language.

I'll rather keep the strong link's that we have with the US of A then being draged further in to a euro superstate where were all stabing each other in the back.

You don't think the Americans all thought the same way or spoke the same language in the beginning do you?

For the most part the settlers came from all over Europe carrying their old prejudices with them. They wern't even a cohesive force, States having different currencies, laws and social systems.

Who knows where Europe will be in 300-400 years.

I'm afraid you're very much in the minority solid, along with the Conservatice Party, and the Little Englanders...

 

[Roy Batty]

Let's have some generalizations.
French are arrogant
Germans officious
English cold
Americans insular and naive

Makes the world go round.

 

[p_p_man]

The Scandinavians...

flagellate.
The rest of us copulate.
And those who don't, masturbate...

Just to oil the wheels that helps the world go round...

 

[Roy Batty]

Re: The Scandinavians...

flagellate.
The rest of us copulate.
And those who don't, masturbate...

Just to oil the wheels that helps the world go round...

I did forget the Swedes et al. What about the Spanish, Italians and the Greeks?

On second thought, don't.

 

[solid_]

I'm proud to be a little Englander if it aint broke why fix it as a nation we do very well by ourselfs we dont need europe. We should strengthen are bonds with the US of A and our commonwealth countrys and get out of europe and leave them to there bickering and double dealing.

How can we ever get along in a union with a country like france that refuses to lift its block on our beef exports. And spain for that matter that continues to plunder our sea's of fish stock. Despite both countrys being slaped on the wrists and threatened with fines.

Europe in 300 or 400 years will be pretty much how it was at the start of 1945 at war.

 

[Guest]

History

The trouble stems from the original colonial rebellion. If the people of the USA will just come to their senses and repeal the Declaration of Independence then they can have a stable not-for-personal-profit government, by the gentlemen of Whitehall, under their true Hereditary Sovereign Elizabeth II.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: History

The trouble stems from the original colonial rebellion. If the people of the USA will just come to their senses and repeal the Declaration of Independence then they can have a stable not-for-personal-profit government, by the gentlemen of Whitehall, under their true Hereditary Sovereign Elizabeth II.

I don't think we'd want them.

What can they offer us, apart from election rigging, 'nuke 'em all' philosophy, thousands upon thousands of flags flying from every conceivable building and Bush (he'd make himself President of the 'America out of Europe' movement)!

 

[Zamdrist]

Is the tension anything new? Can Bush be blamed for it?

Hasn't there been tension ever since the Revolutionary War? Yeah, that was between America and Britain, but...

I don't think it's anything new and nothing to blame Bush about.

Edited to say: Charm_Brights said basically what I'm saying, I just missed it.

 

[RisiaSkye]

Why has America created friction with Europe?

In the short term? Because Bush is a Texan, and likes to start a pissing contest. Europe's been critical of America's overly inflated self-opinion and intrusive war mongering in the post 9/11 fracas. If India & Pakistan won't cooperate and start a real war, we'll need a new target for the "War on Terrorism." It's a nice sleight of hand in which everyone pretends that all this country-hopping our military is doing doesn't piss anyone off--but if it does, we'll smoke screen our bad behavior by finding a new target

In the long view? Because political friction makes the economy go 'round.

Now that China's got favored trade relations, Russia depends on our support to float their economy, and Japan's still reeling from their own tech collapse several years ago--the E.C. makes the best bet for the next potentially dominant economy.

American response to that is likely to take the form of ecologically crippling and potentially lethal armament expansion, stimulating artifical economic growth through deficit spending but in the process crippling European economies who must keep up in armaments, but who buy their guns and expertise from the U.S. and Russia.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Why has America created friction with Europe?

In the short term? Because Bush is a Texan, and likes to start a pissing contest. Europe's been critical of America's overly inflated self-opinion and intrusive war mongering in the post 9/11 fracas. If India & Pakistan won't cooperate and start a real war, we'll need a new target for the "War on Terrorism." It's a nice sleight of hand in which everyone pretends that all this country-hopping our military is doing doesn't piss anyone off--but if it does, we'll smoke screen our bad behavior by finding a new target

In the long view? Because political friction makes the economy go 'round.

Now that China's got favored trade relations, Russia depends on our support to float their economy, and Japan's still reeling from their own tech collapse several years ago--the E.C. makes the best bet for the next potentially dominant economy.

American response to that is likely to take the form of ecologically crippling and potentially lethal armament expansion, stimulating artifical economic growth through deficit spending but in the process crippling European economies who must keep up in armaments, but who buy their guns and expertise from the U.S. and Russia.

Yes all good points.

Well I would say that wouldn't I as I agree with you.

Your final paragraph though leaves some room for conjecture.

There has been a certain amount of artificial stimulation in the American economy already led by by consumer spending since 11 September. The figure last month of 5.6 growth has, I believe been shown to be a blip rather than a sustained growth forecast.

The overall consumer debt, like in the UK, has grown to unmanageable proportions, witness all the advertisements for Debt-Buster companies - the new growth industry.

As the American military has pointed out to Bush over the past few days, war against Iraq will be too costly in men, armaments and money.

So the American economic bubble is perilously close to bursting.

In Europe we are so far behind the military might of America that it would be foolish for us to even think of trying to catch up. We'd never do it. So helping to stimulating the US economy through the purchase of armaments will not be the road Europe will take. Unless it's for other, more political, reasons.

ppman

 

[Ishmael]

Perhaps this will clarify things.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/charleskrauthammer/ck20020524.shtml

Ishmael

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: History

What can they offer us, apart from ...

Well ... erm ... the best potatos in the world come from Idaho ... and ...

 

[Guest]

Logging in here

That reply to p_p_man was from Charm_Brights who has logged on 3 times this session without leaving the Lit site AND has even read his PM's. I seem to have p***ed someone off completely because every time I change threads ift forgets me!

Regards )?

 

[miles]

In a word resentment.

Europe is a new nation in the making. Already we have a common currency, one of the greatest binding agencies there is. We are slowly but surely becoming the most powerful economic bloc on the planet. In many cases we follow combined foreign policies, soon we will have our own defence force separate from NATO and we have former East European countries queuing up to apply for membership.

America has lost more friends since Bush than she has gained. She doesn't like the idea of an economic bloc with all the economic power taking over the lead she once had, she is distrustful of a separate defence force and of the introduction of the former East European countries into Europe.

Or as SINthysist, and sometimes myeslf calls it, the NHRE.

Under Bush America has seen her world turned upside down, to the extent she is making friends with Russia in a desparate attempt to have an ally, any ally, somewhere in the world.

America, in short, is resentful of the growing strength of Europe...

ppman

Damn, pp, you were doing so well. Sorry to see you've had a relapse into your silly bash America threads.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Dear p_,

The problem is that you want access to the American consumer base without all the hassle of allowing the American manufacturers access to the European consumer base.

The problem is that you assume that Americans should bow to whatever is the greater good for Europeans.

The problem is that you assume that all strife in the world immediately began with the Bush ascension to the Presidency.

The problem is that you never take of your own blinders and you never see anything past the end of your nose.

The problem is that you ponder too many political issues that are nothing short of ridiculous and don't write enough porn.

Sincerely,

K