Why Edit?

[RogueLurker]

Seriously ... why?


This is another attempt to get some discussion going and lure the non-posting editors into the fold. Nobody has to answer all the questsions .. I'm just trying to provoke some thought and conversation.

So ...

1. What made you volunteer to edit here in the first place ... is this something that you do in "real life", is it a hobby, were you just horrified by some of the stories that you saw posted and thought that someone had to something? Reasons?

2. Why do you edit? Is for the experience, the enjoyment, the chance to help someone ... something else?

3. What do you get out of editing?

4. Do you respond to editing requests here on the board or do you get most of them by word of mouth or through the VE program?

5. Are you picky at all about editing .. are there categories, themes, genres that you won't edit? Will you turn a turn a story back with a polite "no thank you" if it bothers you or if the writing is particularly poor?

6. What is the best thing, for you, about editing? Tell us one thing that you love about editing ... whether its reading new stories, expanding your skills, helping someone, getting to tear the shit out of someone's story .... whatever it is. What is your "best thing" about editing.

 

[kbate]

Why I Edit by kbate ©

I came to Literotica to write and quickly discovered that the vast majority of writers here have had no formal instruction in writing. I lurked and read stories for quite some time before joining the message board and in that time I became rather disillusioned with the stories. So many were constructed poorly, used repetitive adjectives and repetitive adverbs, followed canned plots and were written with a formulaic dullness that prevented any enjoyment.

I am the story editor for another adult website - and on that one, I do not change the story or suggest changes, but instead allow the users to post as they write, only correcting the grammar, spelling and sentence structure. Much of it is drivel and horrid writing - but it is primarily a dating site and I do not feel I have the authority to change their stories.

On Lit - I started reviewing every story posted in the story feedback forum - reading, spellchecking, grammar checking and suggesting some minor changes - basic stuff. The first few edits I did were by request on the message board - from people who read my posts and thought from the wording and style I used that I might be able to help them. These were primarily grammar/spelling edits and I avoided content changes. Now I take editing requests only from the VE profile, as I have less time and cannot volunteer for every story posted in this forum or elsewhere. I have dropped my workload to 3 or 4 a month from that same number weekly.

I get to see a story in creation when I edit and I get to see how other writers think and write. I get the fun of teaching a little of what I know about English and a little of what I know about writing (I actually know very little). When I do well, and the writer has done well, I get the pleasure of seeing a happy writer, sometimes even with an "H".

I am open to nearly any story although I prefer shorts <5000 words. I will not edit any story which I find to contain - underage sex, bestial sex, violent sex or a few other things in the extreme range. I have only refused one to date - due to underage content.

I will probably drop most of my editing soon and concentrate on finishing the many stories I have in progress. (7 at last count).

 

[RogueLurker]

I'm still thinking about how to answer these questions myself. I'll give you my initial thoughts ... with the caveat that they may change or develop more fully as I give them deeper consideration.

Similar to kbate, I started reading some of the stories on Lit. Some were good, some were horrible, lots had errors such as spelling, grammar, continuity and plots/characters that just could have been better (in my mind) if the author had planned things out a bit more. So, I decided to offer my assistance. I tried to set up a VE profile, but it just sat in pending forever. So I came to the EF and lurked (surprised?) and offered to assist when someone asked. I've had mixed success ... I've worked on some amazing stories with some very good writers, I've been told .. uh no, I'm leaving it the way it is, I've been ignored, I've helped some people and I've disappointed others.

I edit because I enjoy it. It interests me to see a story in its early stages and watch it develop. There's something about helping someone work on a story ... giving feedback, both postive and constructive, pushing the author to meet their potential ... and seeing a difference in the final product. In some cases, I like to disect a story and figure out what the author is trying to get across try to help them emphasize. I love seeing a story move from good enough to post to very good and worthy of an H. Of course, alot of really good stories don't get an H ... but the author and I know that it was a damn good story.

For me, editing is a challenge ... and it engages my mind. I get a sense of satisfaction from editing ... and I like the appreciation when an author sees the difference that the edit/comments have made.

Most of the authors that I've worked with have been authors who have requested assitance here on the EF ... I try to volunteer when I can, but I don't seem to be able to keep up with editing/real life/and other constraints. I edit for a few authors whose work I enjoy, and try to provide assitance to others when I can.

The best thing about editing to me is when there is a "click". When the author and I have a meeting of the minds and we both understand what the other is saying/thinking/intending with the story. We don't have to agree ... just understand. When the edit becomes collaborative ... a give and take ... and the relationship becomes more of a partnership than a transaction. I've been lucky in the number of times I've had this experience. That's where the story becomes more than a story and I feel like I've made a difference. For those types of stories, I feel like have a vested interest in it. I am not the writer/creator ... but I was involved in some part and perhaps I made a difference. Case in point, watching Capital City during the last contest was a rollercoaster ride and I will always appreciate kbate's keeping me in the loop on what was going on. I have no idea how authors enter those contests ... I nearly ended up with an ulcer.

So there you go ... thoughts from the Lurker.

 

[CopyCarver]

Seriously ... why?


This is another attempt to get some discussion going and lure the non-posting editors into the fold. Nobody has to answer all the questsions .. I'm just trying to provoke some thought and conversation.

So ...

1. What made you volunteer to edit here in the first place ... is this something that you do in "real life", is it a hobby, were you just horrified by some of the stories that you saw posted and thought that someone had to something? Reasons?

2. Why do you edit? Is for the experience, the enjoyment, the chance to help someone ... something else?

3. What do you get out of editing?

4. Do you respond to editing requests here on the board or do you get most of them by word of mouth or through the VE program?

5. Are you picky at all about editing .. are there categories, themes, genres that you won't edit? Will you turn a turn a story back with a polite "no thank you" if it bothers you or if the writing is particularly poor?

6. What is the best thing, for you, about editing? Tell us one thing that you love about editing ... whether its reading new stories, expanding your skills, helping someone, getting to tear the shit out of someone's story .... whatever it is. What is your "best thing" about editing.

Dictum 41 of the Official Smartass Code compels me to respond with the predictable (and obligatory):


Why Not?

But, seriously, he continued, Swiftily

1) I write/edit for a research institute of a major university. About half of the mss I edit 9-to-5 are academic arcania that have no raison d etre other than shielding their authors from publish-or-perish syndrome; the other 50% are significant works that deal with crucial but extremely bleak issues--sociopolitical oppression, hunger, absence of adequate education and health care, etc. The former are mind-numbingly boring, and the latter--while immensely satisfying--are also as depressing as it gets. Editing a Lit story or two in the evening is a great way to decompress.

I'd never heard of Literotica until a friend asked me to edit a howlingly funny piece of scatology she had written and wanted to post here. Sadly, she chickened out and removed the piece soon afterward, but I've been stinking up the joint ever since.

2) Answer 1 seems to cover 2 as well--damn, I'm good! Beyond relaxation, I really do enjoy helping beginning writers--smarmy as that may be. There are a surprising number of people who have both talent and a story to tell, but need need a few pointers and/or a bit of encouragement.

3) See 1 and 2

4) All of the above. Some authors have been referred by other writers with whom I've worked or other volunteer editors; some have contacted me after they've seen my posts in the forum; a few seem to have beamed down from the mother ship without a helmet, e.g. the dude who got royally pissed at me after I told him that translating Candy into Pig Latin would violate Terry Southern's copyright, and that it wouldn't find much of an audience even if it could be done. (No, Virginia, I'm not making this up.)

5) I won't reject a story simply because of bad writing. I did a couple stories that were marked up so badly that "Insert Commas" literally ran out of margin space and had to go to an additional page. There are a couple genres I haven't worked, but probably none that I absolutely wouldn't. This is just "different strokes" theory--just because I don't appreciate a particular theme doesn't mean that other people won't. The dividing line for me is consenting adult/no harm, no foul. If someone ever sent me a bio of Jeffrey Dahmer, I'd abandon ship in a heartbeat.

6) Best thing about editing? The opportunity to rid the world of all gerunds and all references to Utah.

 

[Guest]

I'm not an editor and never will be, but I admire those who have the stomach and fortitude to do it Listening to your reasons underlines for me why I so rarely edit the works of other people.

However, I'm extremely grateful that people like you exist

 

[CopyCarver]

I'm not an editor and never will be, but I admire those who have the stomach and fortitude to do it Listening to your reasons underlines for me why I so rarely edit the works of other people.

However, I'm extremely grateful that people like you exist

Are you sure you don't want to aid in the war against gerunds? How will you live with yourself when they take over the world?


ps: I lied about why I'm here. I was seeking a Chinese restaurant in the Village, took a wrong turn at the corner of Mott and Hoople Streets, and arrived here by mistake.

 

[Guest]

Are you sure you don't want to aid in the war against gerunds? How will you live with yourself when they take over the world?


ps: I lied about why I'm here. I was seeking a Chinese restaurant in the Village, took a wrong turn at the corner of Mott and Hoople Streets, and arrived here by mistake.

Hmph, I was suspicious about you from the first.

I'm too picky. I'm overly critical. I'm not willing to teach people basic craft about punctuation and proofreading -- I think that if you want to write, you should apply yourself to the learning of it, just as if you want to learn ballet or fine oil painting, you apply yourself.

Also I can't do all three functions at once -- I can't copy edit and content edit, and I certainly can't give opinions, which is what so many of you do. I often don't think my opinions are necessarily helpful to many writers. All I can use for criteria is what I want a story to do, and no one is contracted to write just for me. I have no idea what other people would want to read, so I can't advise toward that end.

I'm also a terrible snob. No, really, an out and out bitchy snob who thinks that people approach writing literature, be it porn, poetry, or the GAN with a huge DIY mentality, whereas I've studied my brains out trying to improve my writing craft, and I've met (and worked with) enough people who think just because they can string words together into a generally coherent sentence, they are writing. (See? Snob. Bitchy snob). I lack that altruistic attitude the others here have expressed of trying to help people. I don't want to be bothered with other people's bad writing. I have plenty of my own that needs much help.

Speaking of which, I offered to read a story today because I let that altruistic impulse overcome good, hard headed thinking, and I'm just soo not going to do anyone any good....

 

[CopyCarver]

Hmph, I was suspicious about you from the first.

I'm too picky. I'm overly critical. I'm not willing to teach people basic craft about punctuation and proofreading -- I think that if you want to write, you should apply yourself to the learning of it, just as if you want to learn ballet or fine oil painting, you apply yourself.

Also I can't do all three functions at once -- I can't copy edit and content edit, and I certainly can't give opinions, which is what so many of you do. I often don't think my opinions are necessarily helpful to many writers. All I can use for criteria is what I want a story to do, and no one is contracted to write just for me. I have no idea what other people would want to read, so I can't advise toward that end.

I'm also a terrible snob. No, really, an out and out bitchy snob who thinks that people approach writing literature, be it porn, poetry, or the GAN with a huge DIY mentality, whereas I've studied my brains out trying to improve my writing craft, and I've met (and worked with) enough people who think just because they can string words together into a generally coherent sentence, they are writing. (See? Snob. Bitchy snob). I lack that altruistic attitude the others here have expressed of trying to help people. I don't want to be bothered with other people's bad writing. I have plenty of my own that needs much help.

Speaking of which, I offered to read a story today because I let that altruistic impulse overcome good, hard headed thinking, and I'm just soo not going to do anyone any good....

At least you're sparing yourself the joys of reading, "Oodgay riefgay itsay addyday!"

 

[Guest]

At least you're sparing yourself the joys of reading, "Oodgay riefgay itsay addyday!"

I'd be inclined to hunt the person down and personally tape their fingers to their asscheeks (with ducttape).

 

[RogueLurker]

I'd be inclined to hunt the person down and personally tape their fingers to their asscheeks (with ducttape).

Perhaps it is for the best that you don't edit.

Thank you CC, Mal, and kbate for posting some interesting answers. I hope to see more people pop in to give their opinions or discuss any of the things brought up in further detail (except for the duct taping of fingers to asscheeks ... I think we can all agree that probably wouldn't be a nice thing for an editor to do ...even if it was deserved)

 

[Guest]

Perhaps it is for the best that you don't edit.

Thank you CC, Mal, and kbate for posting some interesting answers. I hope to see more people pop in to give their opinions or discuss any of the things brought up in further detail (except for the duct taping of fingers to asscheeks ... I think we can all agree that probably wouldn't be a nice thing for an editor to do ...even if it was deserved)

I've never actually DONE it. I've just THOUGHT about it.

Sometimes I think it's mostly that I don't edit HERE. I work with people in my writing group and that's different. Here, many people think that the sex scene is the whole story (I just finished reading and commenting, by request, on such a story) and that anything involving actually telling a story is unneeded.

It makes me wonder, though, what you find the most difficult part of editing, and how you manage to overcome that to keep doing it.

 

[RogueLurker]

It makes me wonder, though, what you find the most difficult part of editing, and how you manage to overcome that to keep doing it.

Just as long as this doesn't denigrate into a thread slamming people's errors. Let the editor that doesn't make their own errors be the one that throws the first stone.

For me, the thing that I find most difficult is when I've spent literally hours (I'm a slow editor ) going through a story, commenting, correcting, etc and when I send it back either I get no response at all (even a "got the email") or a response that says "yeah, well, I thought it was pretty good the way it was so I'm going to leave it". Ignore my comments or suggestions ... fine. But spelling, grammar, punctuation and paragraph formatting ... those are the things that *have* to be changed. Why else would you send it to be edited?

How do I overcome it? Shake my head and hope for better with the next author.

oh yeah ... and people who misuse the word lurid. that is difficult to deal with.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

oh yeah ... and people who misuse the word lurid. that is difficult to deal with. [/QUOTE]

*snerk*

 

[LadyCibelle]

Just as long as this doesn't denigrate into a thread slamming people's errors. Let the editor that doesn't make their own errors be the one that throws the first stone.

For me, the thing that I find most difficult is when I've spent literally hours (I'm a slow editor ) going through a story, commenting, correcting, etc and when I send it back either I get no response at all (even a "got the email") or a response that says "yeah, well, I thought it was pretty good the way it was so I'm going to leave it". Ignore my comments or suggestions ... fine. But spelling, grammar, punctuation and paragraph formatting ... those are the things that *have* to be changed. Why else would you send it to be edited?

How do I overcome it? Shake my head and hope for better with the next

That's my biggest pet peeve too.

I'll be back with answers to your questions.

 

[LadyCibelle]

1. What made you volunteer to edit here in the first place ... is this something that you do in "real life", is it a hobby, were you just horrified by some of the stories that you saw posted and thought that someone had to something? Reasons?

It started as a hobby while I was finishing my studies in psychology and criminology and when I discovered I had to stop aforementionned studies as my kids were too often in the hospitals and it was impeding my studies, I made it my calling (so to speak) Now, I even get paid for it sometimes.

2. Why do you edit? Is for the experience, the enjoyment, the chance to help someone ... something else?

All of the above. Seeing a story I edited being well received is very thrilling. I know that MY help made a difference. Helping a starting writer hone his skill and see him grow is the best feeling in the world.

3. What do you get out of editing?

re: #2

4. Do you respond to editing requests here on the board or do you get most of them by word of mouth or through the VE program?

Most of them are word of mouth or through my VE profile. Sometimes I'll answer a request from here if I'm not too busy.

5. Are you picky at all about editing .. are there categories, themes, genres that you won't edit? Will you turn a turn a story back with a polite "no thank you" if it bothers you or if the writing is particularly poor?

The answer is twofold here, I think. There are categories I won't edit as I have absolutely NO knowledge of the theme and I don't feel I'd be the best person to say if the story 'works' or not. If the characters are acting 'in character' with the theme of the story.

I do turn back stories if they are sent from categories I won't touch or if when I open it the writing is too crappy. I'm not known to be particularly nice when it happens. Fortunately, for me, people either like being kicked or my reputation is such now that they know what to expect; so I don't have to worry about anyone's bruised ego.

6. What is the best thing, for you, about editing? Tell us one thing that you love about editing ... whether its reading new stories, expanding your skills, helping someone, getting to tear the shit out of someone's story .... whatever it is. What is your "best thing" about editing.

As I said in #2, the feeling of accomplishment I get seeing a story I edited being well received. Knowing that my help made a difference. I don't even need to be acknowledged anywhere, just ME knowing is enough.

 

[CopyCarver]

For me, the thing that I find most difficult is when I've spent literally hours (I'm a slow editor ) going through a story, commenting, correcting, etc and when I send it back either I get no response at all (even a "got the email") or a response that says "yeah, well, I thought it was pretty good the way it was so I'm going to leave it".

Yep, it happens with about 40% of writers. It doesn't bother me too much, if I can be reasonably certain they received the edits. Given the vagaries of e-mail, I often wonder if they're waiting for something that went into cyber-limbo.

What's far tougher for me is deciding just how picky to be. I need to gun for perfection in journalistic/academic editing, but fiction in general--and amateur fiction in particular--is a different ball game. It's always a trade-off between giving all the advice that one writer needs and wants without crushing the confidence of another. I had one beginner give up writing altogether because of the margin notes, even though I bent over backward to be tactful. If Ilean too far the other way, I'm cheating the writer. Luckily, my current "stable" are all damn good writers who are eager to get even better.

 

[Matadore]

I'd be inclined to hunt the person down and personally tape their fingers to their asscheeks (with ducttape).

Great thread, RL! I have already learned two important things; I'm no editor and despite my rampent narcissium, I might someday be a readable author!

Now, technical advice to Mal...use super glue. It works much fasted and makes a much more permanent and secure bond. It's a great idea, too, espcially for those of us who can't find their ass with both hands.

 

[fieryjen]

*wants to put in her $0.05*

I've edited about four, maybe five stories total during my time here. Not exactly a high number, but then, I don't usually consider myself an "editor" in that sense.

I started doing it for several reasons, once to help out some of the authors I respect very much, and maybe getting the privilege of reading a piece before its submission, which is always exciting and I'm glad I can help out. Also, if a post of an author looking for help here intrigues me and hasn't been answered by anyone else yet, I'm happy if I can help out the editors in the EF a bit.

Badly written stories also bother me a lot, like most editors.

I'm not overly secure in my editing abilities. I can find typos, and common misspellings such as "definately". I still misspell quite a few words, but learn more every time I get back my own edited stories.

When it comes to words being used the wrong way, I didn't use to trust my language abilities enough to correct them. Now, I check everything that sounds suspicious quickly at dictionary.com or some such helpful site, and either it's actually wrong, or I learn new words and meanings.

 

[Guest]

Great thread, RL! I have already learned two important things; I'm no editor and despite my rampent narcissium, I might someday be a readable author!

Now, technical advice to Mal...use super glue. It works much fasted and makes a much more permanent and secure bond. It's a great idea, too, espcially for those of us who can't find their ass with both hands.

::grin:: Superglue is good for superior adhesion. I like the duct tape, tho, for the side benefits, like moisture sealant and hair removal.

I think it would be extremely frustrating to spend hours working on someone's story only to get "Gee, I like it the way it was." On those rare occasions I do agree to work on someone's piece, I usually ask a list of questions about what they want, how they want to hear it, what they think is wrong and right with it, etc. Lots of times people SAY they want editing when they really want a proofread or a first read (much gentler things, IMO).

I imagine the best thing to do would be to develop a reputation for being a no holds barred sort of editing demon -- just to keep the faint of heart at bay. Again, my opinion, but not everyone who writes something is really ready to have an opinion about it. Sometimes those things need to sit and fester a while. Also, I am a fan of the self-edit (aka revision) before letting my story out of my hot little hands. I never feel comfortable turning a raw rough draft over to anyone, no matter how much they love me

 

[RogueLurker]

Thanks, everyone, for responding to this. This and the other thread are giving me lots to think about.

A comment to Matadore, Mal and FieryJen ... and I'm going to be lazy and copy and paste some of my thoughts from the other thread.

I think one of the key things to remember is that this is a volunteer site. I am not a professional editor ... nor do I think I ever will be. I suspect that there are very few editors here who also edit in real life (CC and maybe one or two others). I offer what technical skills I have as well as my opinions. Just like the authors offer their talent and imagination for those who want to read their stories. You may not be an editor, but that shouldn't stop you. Everybody needs a second set of eyes and a voice of reason to get things back on track ... that's what I see as a primary job for an editor.

I think that I have grown and improved my editing skills over the short time that I've been on this site. I've learned a tremendous amount from working with different authors ... I learn something new from every author... as well as from listening and talking with other editors on this site.

This is a collaborative effort ... for both the editors and the authors. Everyone should have the chance to learn and develop. Authors sometimes write not so great stories, editors sometimes miss things. Both need an environment to develop and improve.

 

[trick_or_treat]

1. What made you volunteer to edit here in the first place ... is this something that you do in "real life", is it a hobby, were you just horrified by some of the stories that you saw posted and thought that someone had to something? Reasons?

**I volunteered to edit 'cause I was tired of reading stories with stupid mistakes in them and hoped I could help - even just a little. Plus, I just liked the idea of helping out authors. I would love to edit stuff in 'real life' and am seriously considering finding out if I could somehow do that.

2. Why do you edit? Is for the experience, the enjoyment, the chance to help someone ... something else?

**mostly to help both the readers and the writers

3. What do you get out of editing?

**nothing concrete that I can put my finger on. I just like helping people and doing something 'adult' (I spend most of my time with my kids). Also, sparks some interesting discussions with my husband!

4. Do you respond to editing requests here on the board or do you get most of them by word of mouth or through the VE program?

**I am new on here, so respond to editing requests, but hope that I can either get a few editors who I generally work with and am happy to fill in when regular editors are too busy.

5. Are you picky at all about editing .. are there categories, themes, genres that you won't edit? Will you turn a turn a story back with a polite "no thank you" if it bothers you or if the writing is particularly poor?

**Not really. If it was really violent, I probably wouldn't be interested, but I think anything acceptable on lit would be okay. If I got a story I didn't think I could do a good job editing, either because of content or style/genre, then I would return to that effect and see if the writer would prefer to find somebody else. It will take me longer to edit a story that is badly written, because I have to think about what the author is trying to say and how to change very slightly to keep the authors words/intent.
**I will not cater to someone, though. I will give you my opinions and thoughts. If you do not want to use them, that is your choice, but if you ask for my opinions you will get them.

6. What is the best thing, for you, about editing? Tell us one thing that you love about editing ... whether its reading new stories, expanding your skills, helping someone, getting to tear the shit out of someone's story .... whatever it is. What is your "best thing" about editing.

**I think the best things are reading different stories and seeing authors grow. (I know I haven't been here long enough to do that, but have done that at school.)

 

[trick_or_treat]

What's far tougher for me is deciding just how picky to be. I need to gun for perfection in journalistic/academic editing, but fiction in general--and amateur fiction in particular--is a different ball game. It's always a trade-off between giving all the advice that one writer needs and wants without crushing the confidence of another. I had one beginner give up writing altogether because of the margin notes, even though I bent over backward to be tactful. If Ilean too far the other way, I'm cheating the writer. Luckily, my current "stable" are all damn good writers who are eager to get even better.

I think that's my hardest thing with editing. I don't edit in my 'real' life, but want to help the writers on here to write great stories without turning them off of writing. Hopefully I will eventually have some 'regulars' who want what I am offering and don't take things the wrong way.

I have no problem if people don't want to take my suggestions, but would prefer that they at least think about them before dismissing my work!

 

[trick_or_treat]

::grin:: Superglue is good for superior adhesion. I like the duct tape, tho, for the side benefits, like moisture sealant and hair removal.

superglue is okay for hair removal, too - not quite the same effect as duct tape, though

I imagine the best thing to do would be to develop a reputation for being a no holds barred sort of editing demon -- just to keep the faint of heart at bay.

So how do I do that LOL?? I think the problem would be that I am really a very nice person, although I can edit pretty harshly and will tell the truth!! (You all will just have to believe me about that first part 'cause none of you know me IRL - or at least you don't know you know me I keep trying to convince my husband I'm an angel and he doesn't buy it, either!)

 

[cloudy]

I started my editing with Colleen Thomas' work, and I guess from her recommendations, started receiving more and more requests.

Now, unfortunately, I just don't have the heart for it anymore.

 

[LadyCibelle]

I started my editing with Colleen Thomas' work, and I guess from her recommendations, started receiving more and more requests.

Now, unfortunately, I just don't have the heart for it anymore.

Which is an absolute shame as you're bloody good at it!!!

BTW, I'd awesome to see you back!! I've missed you like crazy.