Why Dominate?

[graceanne]

I don't see a D/s relationship as being any more work than a 'nilla relationship. In some ways it's less work because the power dynamic is established and agreed on. Quite often in 'nilla relationships there is constant battles over who has the power and that is exhausting.

As far as I'm concerned I put as much work into this relationship as K does. And I'm pretty sure that K would agree. Just because the power is distributed differently doesn't mean that anyone does more or less wor

 

[bruisedangel]

"Work" was probably the wrong word. (I seem to choose the wrong words in all my threads lately. Duh.)

Maybe I should've said "effort" or "responsibility."

Most people, vanilla, kinky, or otherwise, seem to not want to take on any sort of responsibility in relationships. So why would a dominant person? Is it just a part of the dominant personality? I can't figure it out, but then maybe I just think too much.

Hey, nothing wrong with thinking too much!

I don't think that it's necessarily a part of the dominant's personality to take responsibility. It seems, at least to me (and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong) that both the dom and sub take an equal measure of responsibility. Just one of a different nature. The dom is responsible for being the boss (in some senses, if not all) the sub responsible for answering to the dom. I DO think that more couples should take a mutual responsibility in ensuring they work together, no matter the personal dynamic of the individual relationship, to ensure that things are working properly. Goes back to communication.

I suppose, however, that you're not wrong in stating it's part of the dominant's personality. To a degree. After all, that IS why someone is dominant. To take over, control, direct, choose your verb.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

It's just who I am and what I do.

All the other Doms in this thread have pretty much summed it up.

 

[Homburg]

We don't see it as "work" because we enjoy it. It's not "work", it's "play".

"Effort" is a better word. Sure, you may not see it as much of an effort as unnegotiated vanilla jockeying, but it is still effort. Why? Because it takes more skullsweat than the average schmuck puts into their relationship proactively. That is why it is "effort".

We get into these power exchange situations and negotiate it out, talk about it, and *gasp* communicate. How often, barring pre-nuptial agreements, do you see vanilla couples negotiate at the outset of a relationship? There might be some talk of whether or not children will happen, or who will move in with whom, but, more often than not, there's none of that. People hang out, watch TV, go to the movies, exercise together, and all the rest of the things couples do. They don't particularly talk about it, or think about it.

Well, until problems arise, or until the situation changes. Then they do, and usually it results in arguments. In our world, we do the prep-work necessary to avoid a lot of those problems, thus our relationships seem like they need less effort. It's not the case though. How many vanilla guys even know what their partners' needs are? How many work to make sure those needs are met? Now how many PYL's do you know that understand their partners' needs, and how often do you see them working to meet those needs? The latter is going to be a higher number probably.

The "effort" comes in actually paying attention to your partner, and understanding your partner. And BDSM sex is more "effort" as well. Any time you add in any prop, too, toy, or whatever, you are making more of an "Effort" than the old in-out. And most of us spend time figuring out how to press our partners' buttons because that sets us off as well. More "effort", plain and simple.

No, it's not "work", but it's sure as hell more "effort". And I wouldn't have it any other way.

Now the poly side? That's work.

 

[HottieMama]

Now the poly side? That's work.

I don't know if you were being completely serious or not, but AMEN!

 

[Homburg]

I don't know if you were being completely serious or not, but AMEN!

I am rarely completely serious. In this case, it was a mix.

 

[graceanne]

I am rarely completely serious.

One of the things I like about you.

 

[Homburg]

One of the things I like about you.

I have to have something going for me

 

[graceanne]

I have to have something going for me

Well, there is the whole talking cock thing.

 

[Homburg]

Well, there is the whole talking cock thing.

Pfft, it gets me more trouble than it is worth, usually.

 

[graceanne]

Pfft, it gets me more trouble than it is worth, usually.

Well, as long as I'm amused, that's all that's important, ya know.

 

[RJMasters]

I think satisfaction is a big element here as well.

Going to the motive or heart of what we do. I think a big part is we do what we do because we are looking for the pay-off, or the feeling of satisfaction.

Most people don't go rock climbing because it takes too much effort, and its dangerious.

I think in part you could answer your question by looking at why it is a rock-climber does what they do? They could just sit at home on the couch and be comfy, if you give them the choice, of what would be more personally satisfying to them, they would tell you rock climbing.

It may not be a perfect anaology, but I think it makes clear what is partly behind the choice to Dominate and putting forth the effort to do so.

Resultive satisfaction and happiness for me is an onging cause and effect experience of a life lived following my dominant instincts to... "be in" and "have" control.

 

[Netzach]

I'm currently reading a bunch of stuff as research for work. It's non-fiction, primarily femdom/msub stuff, but there are some other things thrown in as well. I'm taking it all with a fairly large grain of salt, but a common thing that keeps running through my mind is "Good lord, that's a lot of work." That could just be my way of looking at things.

Additionally, there are several threads floating around here at the moment, namely the doormat thread, the brat thread, and the women = sluts thread. From what I gather from the comments of others, doormats and brats are both too much work.

Furthermore, Homburg's comments here seem to echo the vibe I get from many people, vanilla and kinky alike. Nobody really wants to bother to put a whole lot of effort into relationships.

I want to say up front that I'd prefer this didn't turn into "doormats and brats suck, part deux."

But, all these things considered, it makes me wonder why men and women choose to be dominant within their relationships. (Yes, I know some people can be considered "naturally" dominant, but they still chose to enter an unequal partnership, rather than an equal one.)

I'm not really talking the bedroom play/equal outside the bedroom dynamic. I mean, where the dominant party is making the bulk of or all of the decisions concerning the relationship and/or the well-being of all parties involved.

What is it that makes the extra "work" appealing to you? Why do you bother? Obviously, it makes you happy in some way, or you wouldn't do it, but what about this kind of relationship makes the additional effort and responsibility worthwhile?

I can't relate to people who run their rels. this way at all. I still think what I'm doing is M/s D/s whateverthefuck, but it doesn't involve me scrambling for H, but him scrambling for me.

I'm impatient, capricious, change my mind, change rules, inconsistent, and messy. However I'm also creative, playful, and all that stuff. So if I'm doing it, it's not "work" at all.

 

[ecstaticsub]

We don't see it as "work" because we enjoy it. It's not "work", it's "play".

"Effort" is a better word. Sure, you may not see it as much of an effort as unnegotiated vanilla jockeying, but it is still effort. Why? Because it takes more skullsweat than the average schmuck puts into their relationship proactively. That is why it is "effort".

We get into these power exchange situations and negotiate it out, talk about it, and *gasp* communicate. How often, barring pre-nuptial agreements, do you see vanilla couples negotiate at the outset of a relationship? There might be some talk of whether or not children will happen, or who will move in with whom, but, more often than not, there's none of that. People hang out, watch TV, go to the movies, exercise together, and all the rest of the things couples do. They don't particularly talk about it, or think about it.

Well, until problems arise, or until the situation changes. Then they do, and usually it results in arguments. In our world, we do the prep-work necessary to avoid a lot of those problems, thus our relationships seem like they need less effort. It's not the case though. How many vanilla guys even know what their partners' needs are? How many work to make sure those needs are met? Now how many PYL's do you know that understand their partners' needs, and how often do you see them working to meet those needs? The latter is going to be a higher number probably.

The "effort" comes in actually paying attention to your partner, and understanding your partner. And BDSM sex is more "effort" as well. Any time you add in any prop, too, toy, or whatever, you are making more of an "Effort" than the old in-out. And most of us spend time figuring out how to press our partners' buttons because that sets us off as well. More "effort", plain and simple.

No, it's not "work", but it's sure as hell more "effort". And I wouldn't have it any other way.

Now the poly side? That's work.

This post seemed rather anti-vanilla and at least from what I have seen in most vanilla marriages I know not accurate. Especially the bolded part. Most vanilla partners I know do communicate, do know their partners needs, their dreams, their fantasies. They listen to each other and then together come to a decision. Most time without an argument.

It depends on the couple but it seems to me both vanilla and BDSM relationships take equal effort to make work them work well, just different kinds of effort.

 

[Homburg]

I can't relate to people who run their rels. this way at all. I still think what I'm doing is M/s D/s whateverthefuck, but it doesn't involve me scrambling for H, but him scrambling for me.

I'm impatient, capricious, change my mind, change rules, inconsistent, and messy. However I'm also creative, playful, and all that stuff. So if I'm doing it, it's not "work" at all.

Do you put more time into your relationships than the average person? More thought? You have previously described yourself as brainstorming some evil thing that you were going to do to H. That ain't scrambling, sure, but it is effort. It is just Rock Climbing, to use RJ's example, so you like it.

---

This post seemed rather anti-vanilla and at least from what I have seen in most vanilla marriages I know not accurate. Especially the bolded part. Most vanilla partners I know do communicate, do know their partners needs, their dreams, their fantasies. They listen to each other and then together come to a decision. Most time without an argument.

It depends on the couple but it seems to me both vanilla and BDSM relationships take equal effort to make work them work well, just different kinds of effort.

Are you just looking at long-standing functional marriages when you say this, or Joe and Jane that have been going out casually for a couple of months? I'm not limiting my description to the relationships that are functional and work, because they're in the minority. How many marriages self-destruct in the first five years? Is that communication?

My post is not anti-vanilla. It's just realistic. Most people, vanilla or BDSM, have crappy communication skills, and are generally more interested in what they get out of a relationship than what their partner does. BDSM'ers are only somewhat better, as there are plenty of selfish clueless people involved in BDSM too. The difference is that BDSM provides a bit more language with which to communicate and more structure to allow for communication.

 

[Netzach]

Do you put more time into your relationships than the average person? More thought? You have previously described yourself as brainstorming some evil thing that you were going to do to H. That ain't scrambling, sure, but it is effort. It is just Rock Climbing, to use RJ's example, so you like it.

I have no idea as to the first part of your question. I usually assume that other people want their relationships to be good as much as I do mine. Even if they're really weird.

Or not weird.

But yeah, I think the rock climbing analogy is a great one. I do it when it's something I want to do that I find rewarding. If it's draining or upsetting to me I do not do it. If it's BORING to me and it means the world to the sub, well, happy birthday maybe. I definitely cook up things for H when I get excited about it, but I am probably excited about it less than the average hardcore woot Black Rose going I play every weekend person would ever put up with.

This really freaks out a certain kind of sub who has to rely on the unchanging nature of whatever it is about their D that gave them jollies on day one. I like new things. Pred happens and I don't like anything.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Are you just looking at long-standing functional marriages when you say this, or Joe and Jane that have been going out casually for a couple of months? I'm not limiting my description to the relationships that are functional and work, because they're in the minority. How many marriages self-destruct in the first five years? Is that communication?

My post is not anti-vanilla. It's just realistic. Most people, vanilla or BDSM, have crappy communication skills, and are generally more interested in what they get out of a relationship than what their partner does. BDSM'ers are only somewhat better, as there are plenty of selfish clueless people involved in BDSM too. The difference is that BDSM provides a bit more language with which to communicate and more structure to allow for communication.

How many BDSM relationships self-destruct within the first 5 years? I admit that my only exposure to others in BDSM relationship are through here and Fetlife. I would assume what I see is not truely representative . If it is then there is much more dysfunction in BDSM relationships than in the vanilla marriages that I know of. I'm not sure if I agree that there is more communication in BDSM relationships. Just basing my opinion on the submissive point of view with submissives that I have emailed with or followed their discussions, talking to Domly types is not the easiest thing to do. Many times it ends up the submissive just shuts up accepts whatever he PYL wants and says. That's not exactly communication.

I'm in my mid-40's. The majority of people I know have been married for at least 10 yrs or more. Less than 1/4 of those have been divorced. I believe all are vanillas but who knows for sure. I know they have no idea what really goes on in my marriage. They have normal issues here and there but for the most part they have figured out communication skills to make they relationships work.

Relationships are relationships, whether vanilla or otherwise. I wouldn't say either of mine takes work, or effort--just love, dedication and a system of communication.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Point by point: (In my own way I am a soft butch Top type, a daddy)

What is it that makes the extra "work" appealing to you? I have never seen my added responsibilities as work. I choose to act (or not act) on my nature because it is a part of how I define myself TO myself. I don't feel human without a baby girl to take care of. I don't feel REAL. What that breaks down to (for me) is that the additional responsibilites I choose become my way of showing my partner just how much I need/care/want for them. It becomes an extension of my regard.

Why do you bother? Mostly, I know no other way to be. My baby girls (in the past) have always been lovely, self aware, intelligent women who love me enough to allow me to do what I am good at IE take care of them. They know themselves well enough to know what they need and then they go and find it. After that, they can relax because my own self worth is tied up in taking care of them and I absolutely love the feeling of planning for things or taking care of issues so that they don't have to.

Obviously, it makes you happy in some way, or you wouldn't do it, but what about this kind of relationship makes the additional effort and responsibility worthwhile? See above.

 

[JMohegan]

Are you just looking at long-standing functional marriages when you say this, or Joe and Jane that have been going out casually for a couple of months? I'm not limiting my description to the relationships that are functional and work, because they're in the minority. How many marriages self-destruct in the first five years? Is that communication?

My post is not anti-vanilla. It's just realistic. Most people, vanilla or BDSM, have crappy communication skills, and are generally more interested in what they get out of a relationship than what their partner does. BDSM'ers are only somewhat better, as there are plenty of selfish clueless people involved in BDSM too. The difference is that BDSM provides a bit more language with which to communicate and more structure to allow for communication.

I completely understand why someone who had transformed his long-standing marriage and found greater fulfillment through BDSM (and, by extension, conversations about BDSM dynamics) might conclude that BDSM-style communication is superior to the non-BDSM kind.

However, as food for thought I'll note that you sound exactly like the couple who used to live in my neighborhood, who transformed their marriage when they found Jesus and started engaging in joint prayer sessions. Whatever works for them is great for them, but when the guy suggested to me that I try prayer as a relationship enhancement tool, I started laughing. (Not laughing at prayer itself; just laughing at the guy's presumption.)

From my personal observation of people in all kinds of relationships, over a whole lot of years, I see no anecdotal evidence for the notion that BDSM people are better at communicating than non-kinky folks. The only generalization I'd make would be that people like me are skilled at some forms of personal relationship communication (such as outlining clear expectations), but suck at other forms of communication (most notably, negotiation - for which I have very little patience.)

 

[BiBunny]

Seriously, if most people, vanilla, kinky, purple, whatever, actually communicated like most people here say that they do, would we really have all the "How do I get my husband/wife to tie me up?" and "I'm cheating on my husband/wife with my online Dom/me (or lover), is that ok?" threads that we have on Lit?

 

[Homburg]

I have no idea as to the first part of your question. I usually assume that other people want their relationships to be good as much as I do mine. Even if they're really weird.

Or not weird.

But yeah, I think the rock climbing analogy is a great one. I do it when it's something I want to do that I find rewarding. If it's draining or upsetting to me I do not do it. If it's BORING to me and it means the world to the sub, well, happy birthday maybe. I definitely cook up things for H when I get excited about it, but I am probably excited about it less than the average hardcore woot Black Rose going I play every weekend person would ever put up with.

This really freaks out a certain kind of sub who has to rely on the unchanging nature of whatever it is about their D that gave them jollies on day one. I like new things. Pred happens and I don't like anything.

My perspective here comes from watching far too many of the people I know muddle through their relationships without trying. They put band-aids on things when the heat is on by buying flowers and kissing ass. Little attempt is made to pro-actively figure out how to make things work well.

I know a few vanilla relationships that don't work that way, and I am always bloody impressed.

--

How many BDSM relationships self-destruct within the first 5 years? I admit that my only exposure to others in BDSM relationship are through here and Fetlife. I would assume what I see is not truely representative . If it is then there is much more dysfunction in BDSM relationships than in the vanilla marriages that I know of. I'm not sure if I agree that there is more communication in BDSM relationships. Just basing my opinion on the submissive point of view with submissives that I have emailed with or followed their discussions, talking to Domly types is not the easiest thing to do. Many times it ends up the submissive just shuts up accepts whatever he PYL wants and says. That's not exactly communication.

I'm in my mid-40's. The majority of people I know have been married for at least 10 yrs or more. Less than 1/4 of those have been divorced. I believe all are vanillas but who knows for sure. I know they have no idea what really goes on in my marriage. They have normal issues here and there but for the most part they have figured out communication skills to make they relationships work.

Relationships are relationships, whether vanilla or otherwise. I wouldn't say either of mine takes work, or effort--just love, dedication and a system of communication.

I figured that your perspective was based on what you mentioned. I know that mine was similarly skewed when I was younger. After all, I grew up on military bases, and the families around me were all dual parent nuclear families. Why? Because the parents had to stay together else they didn't retain quarters. When I moved out on the economy, things were wildly different, and it was a little shocking.

--

I completely understand why someone who had transformed his long-standing marriage and found greater fulfillment through BDSM (and, by extension, conversations about BDSM dynamics) might conclude that BDSM-style communication is superior to the non-BDSM kind.

However, as food for thought I'll note that you sound exactly like the couple who used to live in my neighborhood, who transformed their marriage when they found Jesus and started engaging in joint prayer sessions. Whatever works for them is great for them, but when the guy suggested to me that I try prayer as a relationship enhancement tool, I started laughing. (Not laughing at prayer itself; just laughing at the guy's presumption.)

This observation made me laugh. I don't take offense at all, but I really don't see it. After all, I'm the first person to tell most people that ask me that BDSM is probably not a fit for them, and poly almost certainly isn't. Born-again types want to spread the meme. I don't personally give a toss if anyone else ever decides to get into the lifestyle.

From my personal observation of people in all kinds of relationships, over a whole lot of years, I see no anecdotal evidence for the notion that BDSM people are better at communicating than non-kinky folks. The only generalization I'd make would be that people like me are skilled at some forms of personal relationship communication (such as outlining clear expectations), but suck at other forms of communication (most notably, negotiation - for which I have very little patience.)

The only real difference I posited was that BDSM relationships have a structure in place to help those discussions happen. As I said in my previous post, "Most people, vanilla or BDSM, have crappy communication skills, and are generally more interested in what they get out of a relationship than what their partner does."

People are seeing one-sided judgement where there isn't any. I am of the opinion that most people suck at relationships because they are largely selfish.

 

[StrayKat]

I am of the opinion that most people suck at relationships because they are largely selfish.

I think its more about people being spoiled and giving up if not everything is exactly perfect as they imagined. Its the way they are raised, getting everything they want without effort and getting everything *now*. Sometimes they grow up in somewhat responsible people when its about their job but they never go step further in relationships, they remain to be spoiled children.
If they were just selfish they would cater the relationship because, honestly, its easier way to live if one is smart.

I think I am quite a selfish person, yet I know very good how much I would loose if I left my husband. Call me a calculating bitch but it takes much less of any kind of investment to be married than to live alone. Even emotionally.
Aside from the fact that I really like the man, its so much easier to make him happy and have a loyal friend to *protect* me from the world than have to do everything on my own.
People that dont understand that having a relationship can be a lot better than living alone are just spoiled and stupid. It really doesnt take so much to make it work.

 

[Homburg]

I think its more about people being spoiled and giving up if not everything is exactly perfect as they imagined. Its the way they are raised, getting everything they want without effort and getting everything *now*. Sometimes they grow up in somewhat responsible people when its about their job but they never go step further in relationships, they remain to be spoiled children.

I think you're right. This is better way of stating what I was trying to say, thanks.

 

[ecstaticsub]

<<snip>>

I figured that your perspective was based on what you mentioned. I know that mine was similarly skewed when I was younger. After all, I grew up on military bases, and the families around me were all dual parent nuclear families. Why? Because the parents had to stay together else they didn't retain quarters. When I moved out on the economy, things were wildly different, and it was a little shocking.

<<snip>>

The only real difference I posited was that BDSM relationships have a structure in place to help those discussions happen. As I said in my previous post, "Most people, vanilla or BDSM, have crappy communication skills, and are generally more interested in what they get out of a relationship than what their partner does."

People are seeing one-sided judgement where there isn't any. I am of the opinion that most people suck at relationships because they are largely selfish.

Just for the record in the more than 20 years we have been active duty we only lived on base for 8 of those years. Less than half of the couples I was referring to are/were military. We just must be exposed to different people.

I don't agree with your point about most people sucking at relationships. Different perspectives on the world around us, I guess.

 

[JMohegan]

This observation made me laugh. I don't take offense at all, but I really don't see it. After all, I'm the first person to tell most people that ask me that BDSM is probably not a fit for them, and poly almost certainly isn't. Born-again types want to spread the meme. I don't personally give a toss if anyone else ever decides to get into the lifestyle.



The only real difference I posited was that BDSM relationships have a structure in place to help those discussions happen. As I said in my previous post, "Most people, vanilla or BDSM, have crappy communication skills, and are generally more interested in what they get out of a relationship than what their partner does."

People are seeing one-sided judgement where there isn't any. I am of the opinion that most people suck at relationships because they are largely selfish.

It wasn't the attempt to convert me that made me laugh.

It was the presumption that communication in my relationship, without the structure of regular joint prayer sessions, was somehow likely to be lacking in relation to his.