Why does anyone still support Obamacare?

[OldJourno]

My daughter has two young sons. Current premium is about $270 for both boys with a high deductible, so not great.
The renewal notice, or whatever you call it, showed up yesterday. One "choice" was $1,400 a month. It looks like her best option is going to be over $600 a month.
She's a teacher. Her net is a hair under $1,000 every two weeks, so the insurance is going to gobble up 30 percent of her "disposable" income, which is already pretty much spoken for.
I have no problem with the government providing insurance for those who can't otherwise afford it. Subsidize the shit out of it if you have to, as long as you find a mechanism to pay for it.
Instead of doing that, they had to involve everyone (but themselves) in this fetid shitheap.

 

[Liar]

I have no problem with the government providing insurance for those who can't otherwise afford it. Subsidize the shit out of it if you have to, as long as you find a mechanism to pay for it.

There's an easy, straightforward mechanism to pay for it. But is it one that you'd find acceptable?

 

[Liar]

Or did you mean to say

"...as long as you find a mechanism so that I don't have to pay for it"

?

 

[OldJourno]

There's an easy, straightforward mechanism to pay for it. But is it one that you'd find acceptable?

Why do I suspect your definition of easy and straightforward may differ from mine? I personally think that if a certain segment of the population is going to be subsidized, all taxpayers should participate.
And if they are going to be subsidized, it should be with insurance better than this shit we're dealing with now.

 

[Liar]

Why do I suspect your definition of easy and straightforward may differ from mine? I personally think that if a certain segment of the population is going to be subsidized, all taxpayers should participate.
And if they are going to be subsidized, it should be with insurance better than this shit we're dealing with now.

No that's pretty much it. I'd go for expanded medicare style system and tax for it across the board. Including you and me.

But what works and what's politically doable, has never been one and the same.

 

[Setanta84]

Why do I suspect your definition of easy and straightforward may differ from mine? I personally think that if a certain segment of the population is going to be subsidized, all taxpayers should participate.
And if they are going to be subsidized, it should be with insurance better than this shit we're dealing with now.

We currently have the most expensive health care system in the developed world and some of the worst health care outcomes because our lawmakers find allowing vampiric assholes to grow fat off of human death and suffering is acceptable as long as they get perks.

If we put everyone in the country into Medicare--we already basically do this for the poor, the disabled, and children--we'd have dramatically lower costs and better health care outcomes.

Canada's economy is slightly smaller than California's and they manage to do this.

 

[sr71plt]

Yep, one of the first things a new president/Congress needs to address. I wonder which candidate is more likely to do that and get something done. (Well, no, I don't actually wonder that at all.)

 

[OldJourno]

No that's pretty much it. I'd go for expanded medicare style system and tax for it across the board. Including you and me.

But what works and what's politically doable, has never been one and the same.

Actually, subsidized insurance has always been doable. It's just a matter of degrees. The "problem" is that Medicaid's umbrella isn't wide enough.
Some say.

 

[OldJourno]

We currently have the most expensive health care system in the developed world and some of the worst health care outcomes because our lawmakers find allowing vampiric assholes to grow fat off of human death and suffering is acceptable as long as they get perks.

If we put everyone in the country into Medicare--we already basically do this for the poor, the disabled, and children--we'd have dramatically lower costs and better health care outcomes.

Canada's economy is slightly smaller than California's and they manage to do this.

Why do you think MORE government involvement in health care will make it more affordable? Good Christ, they've shit this Obamacare fiasco on us and you think the answer is MORE government involvement?

 

[Setanta84]

Why do you think MORE government involvement in health care will make it more affordable? Good Christ, they've shit this Obamacare fiasco on us and you think the answer is MORE government involvement?

ACA isn't "government involvement" in the sense you mean. It's a backdoor bailout of the provider-side of our current broken system with a few incidental benefits to patients/a fascist rent extraction device for corporations.

And, yes, I do think it would be more affordable if the government ran the health care industry. Do you know why I think that? Literally every other Western nation on earth has a cheaper health care system and most of them even have vastly better health care outcomes.

 

[Liar]

Why do you think MORE government involvement in health care will make it more affordable? Good Christ, they've shit this Obamacare fiasco on us and you think the answer is MORE government involvement?

Because the problem is lack of overarching cost control, and the granular provider(s)/insurer/patient structure contains too many perverse incentives to reasonably adress it.

 

[1sickbastard]

My daughter has two young sons. Current premium is about $270 for both boys with a high deductible, so not great.
The renewal notice, or whatever you call it, showed up yesterday. One "choice" was $1,400 a month. It looks like her best option is going to be over $600 a month.
She's a teacher. Her net is a hair under $1,000 every two weeks, so the insurance is going to gobble up 30 percent of her "disposable" income, which is already pretty much spoken for.
I have no problem with the government providing insurance for those who can't otherwise afford it. Subsidize the shit out of it if you have to, as long as you find a mechanism to pay for it.
Instead of doing that, they had to involve everyone (but themselves) in this fetid shitheap.

She could always go with being uninsured and only have to pay a $780 penalty on her taxes (in her case that would be a $780 reduction on her return).
With the high deductible, chances are that she won't reach the point in any year that it would be cost-effective to have the insurance. She's be better allocating 20% of her net income into a interest bearing account and pay miscellaneous medical expenses out of pocket. She could also put some money into a rollover HSA, which makes that part of her income non-taxable, which in turn lowers her non-insurance penalty.

We really, really need to go with a national single payer system.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

America pisses away trillions for corruption and nonsense. But things wont change one iota until there's a crisis that turns the lights off for all. The whole system exists to enrich politicians and the elites. Obama, Zuckerberg, and the rest all bought estates in Hawaii where you cant get at them when the lights go out.

 

[CyranoJ]

Why does anyone still support Obamacare?

Because the voices opposing it are constantly full of shit and utterly ignorant.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Democrats still support it.

It's their exclusive partisan legislation, their proof that they were going to overcome Capitalism, Republicans and the Insurance Companies.

They will never, ever, admit that it might have been a mistake, flawed legislation or the Cloward-Piven path to single payer. All it needs is a few tweaks, the cooperation of the Republicans that had no part in it and for all the stoopidz to be shouted down as out last poster just tried to do...

 

[Wrong Element]

My daughter has two young sons. Current premium is about $270 for both boys with a high deductible, so not great.
The renewal notice, or whatever you call it, showed up yesterday. One "choice" was $1,400 a month. It looks like her best option is going to be over $600 a month.
She's a teacher. Her net is a hair under $1,000 every two weeks, so the insurance is going to gobble up 30 percent of her "disposable" income, which is already pretty much spoken for.
I have no problem with the government providing insurance for those who can't otherwise afford it. Subsidize the shit out of it if you have to, as long as you find a mechanism to pay for it.
Instead of doing that, they had to involve everyone (but themselves) in this fetid shitheap.

She's a teacher and doesn't have employer-provided health insurance?

 

[Liar]

She's a teacher and doesn't have employer-provided health insurance?

Substitute on a part time deal maybe? Many a private school tries to weasel out of full employee responsibilities.

 

[kbate]

Obamacare:

Sometimes the patient must be sacrificed in order to save the child.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Obamacare:

Sometimes the patient must be sacrificed in order to save the child.

The Oracle of Delphi has spoken...

 

[kbate]

The Oracle of Delphi has spoken...

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=35022162&postcount=6
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=31878980&postcount=63

Nothing that wasn't predicted years ago in this legislation.

 

[snugglestruggle]

America pisses away trillions for corruption and nonsense. But things wont change one iota until there's a crisis that turns the lights off for all. The whole system exists to enrich politicians and the elites. Obama, Zuckerberg, and the rest all bought estates in Hawaii where you cant get at them when the lights go out.

And people say there are no snakes in Hawaii.

On the Brightside, Hawaii is within range of North Korea missiles but I don't think they cold hit the broadside of a continent with them

 

[RobDownSouth]

Obamacare has its flaws, but nothing that cannot be fixed politically.

Despite its flaws, it is still light years better than the old system (which had pre-existing conditions and benefit maximums).

Only the most delusional wingnut will deny that the number of insured households in America is at a 40-year high.

The number would be even higher if Republican governors had not opted to decline 90% federal funding in exchange for increasing medicaid coverage.

We need to significantly increase the tax penalty so that young "invincibles" feel the pain and opt to take personal responsibility for their own health care.

Obamacare is a temporary waypoint on the road to single payer health care.

 

[snugglestruggle]

Obamacare has its flaws, but nothing that cannot be fixed politically.

Despite its flaws, it is still light years better than the old system (which had pre-existing conditions and benefit maximums).

Only the most delusional wingnut will deny that the number of insured households in America is at a 40-year high.

The number would be even higher if Republican governors had not opted to decline 90% federal funding in exchange for increasing medicaid coverage.

We need to significantly increase the tax penalty so that young "invincibles" feel the pain and opt to take personal responsibility for their own health care.

Obamacare is a temporary waypoint on the road to single payer health care.

The problem is rooted in MATH, the numbers don't add up.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/6c/6cd61a30a7cf8f61e9b2eaa1fd3905cf024b13efaedd72ba08f17817ddcb5512.jpg

 

[RobDownSouth]

The problem is rooted in MATH, the numbers don't add up.

That's easy for you to say.
Much more difficult for you to prove.

 

[BotanyBoy]

No that's pretty much it. I'd go for expanded medicare style system and tax for it across the board. Including you and me.

Yes tax and spend MORE on the shit HC system!! Always MOAR!!

Why do you think MORE government involvement in health care will make it more affordable? Good Christ, they've shit this Obamacare fiasco on us and you think the answer is MORE government involvement?

Because that's ALWAYS the answer no matter how much it fails. Throwing as much good money after bad is a strong liberal tradition and they won't stop until MILLIONS are starving in the streets.

Because the problem is lack of overarching cost control, .

No the problem is the government either corners for a company or subsidizes.

Why is the cost of a degree so fuckin high? Government will finance it that's why...

Shit if I could get the government to finance my sales I'd charge whatever the max financing allowed too.

Despite its flaws, it is still light years better than the old system (which had pre-existing conditions and benefit maximums).

No it's not, it's a fucking SCAM!

We need to significantly increase the tax penalty so that young "invincibles" feel the pain and opt to take personal responsibility for their own health care.

Yeaaaa increase that poverty!! Make that 1% even MORE RICH!!! LOL

They NEED IT!

If you wanted the invicilbe young ones to take personal responsibility, let hospitals start turning them away until they come up with some money or an insurance policy number.

Obamacare is a temporary waypoint on the road to single payer health care.

Bullshit, it's a (D) corporate hand job and everyone knows it even if the most die-hard delusional Kool-Aid chugging partisans won't admit it.

Besides there is no need for a fuckin' waypoint.....oh except for big money butt fucking everyone with (D) approval.