Why does anyone NEED an assault rifle?

[BotanyBoy]

That depends on your perception of the threat and the degree of weaponry you believe is required to deal with that threat.

The threat is evident and well documented, making perception rather irrelevant in the face of facts. Facts being bad shit happens to good people all the time even in the most "civilized" nations and in their most respected and peaceful neighborhoods.

The degree of weaponry is further into the conversation...we haven't even established if you think ANY armament is a rational and intelligent reason to arm oneself or not.

So once again the question is do you think the self defense is a rational and intelligent reason to arm oneself or not??

 

[WandaGrabowski]

The threat is evident and well documented, making perception rather irrelevant in the face of facts. Facts being bad shit happens to good people all the time even in the most "civilized" nations and in their most respected and peaceful neighborhoods.

The degree of weaponry is further into the conversation...we haven't even established if you think ANY armament is a rational and intelligent reason to arm oneself or not.

So once again the question is do you think the self defense is a rational and intelligent reason to arm oneself or not??

You saying that the threat is evident and well documented only works in your head.

In response to the op I asked, "Millions of people who live in the US don't own a gun. In the 40 pages of this thread, has anyone given a reason why they NEED a gun?"

If you want me to answer your question, you are going to need to be specific as to what you perceive to be a threat and the degree of weaponry you believe you need to defend yourself.

4 armed thugs breaking into your house is an extreme example.

 

[gunthernehmen]

That depends on your perception of the threat and the degree of weaponry you believe is required to deal with that threat.

The house behind me had the front door blown open with a shotgun. Drug dealer with the wrong address. There other home invasions in the past two years within a block of me. House across the street has been burglarized a dozen times in as many years (they clearly have nice stuff so they get targeted).

And I live in a relatively decent area.

Oh, that drug dealer eventually found the right address, on the other side of town, btw, and shot their victim.

 

[WandaGrabowski]

The house behind me had the front door blown open with a shotgun. Drug dealer with the wrong address. There other home invasions in the past two years within a block of me. House across the street has been burglarized a dozen times in as many years (they clearly have nice stuff so they get targeted).

And I live in a relatively decent area.

Oh, that drug dealer eventually found the right address, on the other side of town, btw, and shot their victim.

Do you think that is a typical scenario? Anecdotal evidence doesn't amount to much.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You saying that the threat is evident and well documented only works in your head.

Only if you assume there is a violence free area.

If you live in the real world where crimes happen and real people are victimized it makes perfect sense.

Do you live in a crime free country??? If so I'd like to move to this totally undiscovered secret utopia that you live in.

If you want me to answer your question, you are going to need to be specific as to what you perceive to be a threat and the degree of weaponry you believe you need to defend yourself.

The threat is the ubiquitous one that comes with being around other people some of who are clearly violent and dangerous threats to those around them on a daily basis.

The degree of weaponry is the really a separate and subsequent conversation. I'm first trying to establish on the most basic level if you think self defense is a rational and intelligent reason to arm oneself or not ?

Pick any weapon....it's totally irrelevant to if you think armament for self defense is a rational reason to arm yourself or not.

4 armed thugs breaking into your house is an extreme example.

Happens every day in pretty much every major metro area and country around the globe.

In most more than once....so not that extreme.

Rapes, assaults, robberies, murders, car jackings....all happen, some places more than others but they still happen.

 

[My I]

Do you think that is a typical scenario? Anecdotal evidence doesn't amount to much.

Then what does?

I've posted stats and you blow them off as lies. I posted several videos of compilations of defensive uses of guns and the AR15 specifically. You ignored those despite them being not just fact but REALITY. Those incidents are NOT rare. They happen every day all day.

Would you like me to link a site that list them? No. That wouldn't do any good, you won't read them. Just like you didn't read the first post in this thread, even though you said you did. Because you don't want REALITY. You don't want the TRUTH. You want what YOU think to be the truth. but it doesn't work that way.

You want to pass new laws based on hysteria and "visceral emotional response". Here's another Cluepon for you: LAW is not written based on hysteria and visceral emotional response. It CANNOT BE. It MUST be written based on facts and reality, reason and rationale.

"No Gun Zones" were a Liberal law written based on hysteria and visceral emotional response. How well is that working? Did your stupid fucking tin sign stop Nikolas Cruz? Fuck no.

Did your Liberal Sheriff, KNOWING he was a danger, stop Nikolas Cruz? FUCK NO. Did the FBI after warnings and INVESTIGATING Cruz's threats stop him? FUCK NO. Did Background checks stop him? FUCK NO. Why? Because your Liberal policies and Liberal laws tied everyone's hands and it never got reported to NCIC to PREVENT him from buying that gun.

Will banning AR15s stop school shootings? FUCK NO. First of all, 99.9999 % of gun owners are never going to shoot up a school. Of the 4 times AR15s have been used in a school shooting the shooter didn't get his gun legally. Sandy Hook? Kid shot his own mother and took her rifle. 80% of school shooting were committed with handguns. But that's your next target, right?

What ALMOST stopped him was two gun store owners that refused to sell him a gun. One because he felt Cruz was unstable and the other because STORE policy did not allow sales to persons under 21.

Open your fucking eyes to reality. Deal with the REAL problem for a change. And stop persecuting gun owner for things they didn't do, Dumbass.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Do you think that is a typical scenario? Anecdotal evidence doesn't amount to much.

FBI files was just on and it was about chasing down a murderous, rape/robbery gang in Detroit that had some 27 members who collectively committed thousands of violent crimes spanning several years against the people of Detroit.

The FBI finally got a break when grandma dumped a double stack of 9mm into a couple of them. Putting them in the hospital allowing the cops to lean on them for reduced charges to get the rest of the gang.

That's just one case, in one city.

 

[WandaGrabowski]

Only if you assume there is a violence free area.

If you live in the real world where crimes happen and real people are victimized it makes perfect sense.

Do you live in a crime free country??? If so I'd like to move to this totally undiscovered secret utopia that you live in.



The threat is the ubiquitous one that comes with being around other people some of who are clearly violent and dangerous threats to those around them on a daily basis.

The degree of weaponry is the really a separate and subsequent conversation. I'm first trying to establish on the most basic level if you think self defense is a rational and intelligent reason to arm oneself or not ?

Pick any weapon....it's totally irrelevant to if you think armament for self defense is a rational reason to arm yourself or not.



Happens every day in pretty much every major metro area and country around the globe.

In most more than once....so not that extreme.

Rapes, assaults, robberies, murders, car jackings....all happen, some places more than others but they still happen.

Once again, you'll have to be specific otherwise I can't tell which end you're talking out of. All you're really saying is that you watch the news and are scared.

 

[WandaGrabowski]

Then what does?

I've posted stats and you blow them off as lies. I posted several videos of compilations of defensive uses of guns and the AR15 specifically. You ignored those despite them being not just fact but REALITY. Those incidents are NOT rare. They happen every day all day.

Would you like me to link a site that list them? No. That wouldn't do any good, you won't read them. Just like you didn't read the first post in this thread, even though you said you did. Because you don't want REALITY. You don't want the TRUTH. You want what YOU think to be the truth. but it doesn't work that way.

You want to pass new laws based on hysteria and "visceral emotional response". Here's another Cluepon for you: LAW is not written based on hysteria and visceral emotional response. It CANNOT BE. It MUST be written based on facts and reality, reason and rationale.

"No Gun Zones" were a Liberal law written based on hysteria and visceral emotional response. How well is that working? Did your stupid fucking tin sign stop Nikolas Cruz? Fuck no.

Did your Liberal Sheriff, KNOWING he was a danger, stop Nikolas Cruz? FUCK NO. Did the FBI after warnings and INVESTIGATING Cruz's threats stop him? FUCK NO. Did Background checks stop him? FUCK NO. Why? Because your Liberal policies and Liberal laws tied everyone's hands and it never got reported to NCIC to PREVENT him from buying that gun.

Will banning AR15s stop school shootings? FUCK NO. First of all, 99.9999 % of gun owners are never going to shoot up a school. Of the 4 times AR15s have been used in a school shooting the shooter didn't get his gun legally. Sandy Hook? Kid shot his own mother and took her rifle. 80% of school shooting were committed with handguns. But that's your next target, right?

What ALMOST stopped him was two gun store owners that refused to sell him a gun. One because he felt Cruz was unstable and the other because STORE policy did not allow sales to persons under 21.

Open your fucking eyes to reality. Deal with the REAL problem for a change. And stop persecuting gun owner for things they didn't do, Dumbass.

Again, millions of people live in the US and manage to make it through each day without owning any weapons at all. Maybe you should move.

 

[gunthernehmen]

Do you think that is a typical scenario? Anecdotal evidence doesn't amount to much.

I would imagine the families that were victimized would differ with you on their situation "not amounting to much".

Wanda, do you live in a house or an apartment? Do you carry insurance in case it burns down? Do you own a car? Do you keep it insured in case someone hits you or vice versa? Do you have health insurance? You know. Just in case you have a stroke or something? What if someone decides they need your purse more than you do? Or you look cute in that dress and they'd like to rape you? I guess you can ask them to hold on a moment while you call 911. (assuming you're in the US) Or, just run into the nearest gun free zone. That'll keep you safe! Anyway, I carry homeowner's insurance, auto insurance, health insurance and firearm. Because an insurance policy can't restore my life or my inviolate tush, should I be assaulted.

Oh, this just in: An assault Truck just drove through a restaurant in Germany. Three dead, 20 injured. But, whatevs. It doesn't amount to much. Germany has fairly strict gun control laws. Not a ban, but strict. I guess the killer couldn't get a gun, so he improvised.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I notice "tyranny" didn't make it onto the list.

Rapes, assaults, robberies, murders, car jackings....all happen, some places more than others but they still happen.

 

[My I]

Again, millions of people live in the US and manage to make it through each day without owning any weapons at all. Maybe you should move.

I'm not forcing anyone to BUY a gun. I wouldn't trust YOU with one. But YOU are one who is trying to take a RIGHT away from people who have done nothing wrong. When you move out of Mommy and Daddy's house you get a new perspective. I hope for your sake it's not because YOU were the victim. But that would make you a Liberal Hero, wouldn't it?

 

[My I]

I would imagine the families that were victimized would differ with you on their situation "not amounting to much".

Wanda, do you live in a house or an apartment? Do you carry insurance in case it burns down? Do you own a car? Do you keep it insured in case someone hits you or vice versa? Do you have health insurance? You know. Just in case you have a stroke or something? What if someone decides they need your purse more than you do? Or you look cute in that dress and they'd like to rape you? I guess you can ask them to hold on a moment while you call 911. (assuming you're in the US) Or, just run into the nearest gun free zone. That'll keep you safe! Anyway, I carry homeowner's insurance, auto insurance, health insurance and firearm. Because an insurance policy can't restore my life or my inviolate tush, should I be assaulted.

Oh, this just in: An assault Truck just drove through a restaurant in Germany. Three dead, 20 injured. But, whatevs. It doesn't amount to much. Germany has fairly strict gun control laws. Not a ban, but strict. I guess the killer couldn't get a gun, so he improvised.

Two of them in London in the past couple years. Another in France. They have STRICT gun laws.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Once again, you'll have to be specific otherwise I can't tell which end you're talking out of. All you're really saying is that you watch the news and are scared.

I am being specific.

It can't get any more specific.

You're just dodging the very simple question.

Do you or do you not think armament for self defense is a rational reason to arm yourself or not?

Again, millions of people live in the US and manage to make it through each day without owning any weapons at all. Maybe you should move.

Ohhhh so you're a classist who thinks only the wealthy should have some semblance of security.

That makes sense...most people who can afford good security for themselves are against the poor doing so. https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/guns-make-us-less-safe.jpghttps://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/hillary-clinton-surrounded-by-armed-secret-service-agents.jpg

I notice "tyranny" didn't make it onto the list.

You notice a lot of stupid shit.

 

[coachdb18]

Again, millions of people live in the US and manage to make it through each day without owning any weapons at all. Maybe you should move.

Now that the government has blazed the path where it can compel you to buy something you feel you neither want nor need, it only makes sense to amend that law (Obamacare) to require everyone buy and carry a gun, for their personal protection/healthcare, or pay an IRS fine.

 

[My I]

Senior Citizen charged with murder

One of you Brits explain this one to me from your perfect crime free country.

 

[KimGordon67]

Would this be an example showing your love of research and statistics? ROFL

I have a fairly longstanding thing with Coach, which includes his frequent inability to read a simple table. So in part, yes.

 

[KimGordon67]

And there you have your average Liberal. They tell you their a fucking genius while acting like ignorant 8 yr olds.

(a) I never said I'm a genius. It's actually your mate Coach who feels the need to mention his Mensa membership in his profile. I don't think I've even once alluded to any of the qualifications I may or may not hold. I'm just able to read a freaking chart (usually).
(b) I'm not sure how making a joke = 'ignorant 8 yr old'?

 

[WandaGrabowski]

One of the reason that I don't take any of you gun boys seriously in any discussion is that you immediately tell me and anyone else who asks you a question what we believe and what we're trying to do.

Back to my question, why are so afraid that you feel the need for maximum fire power in a civilized country without a civil war? How many times have you found the perceived threat to be real and you needed your guns to save your life?

 

[KimGordon67]

The house behind me had the front door blown open with a shotgun. Drug dealer with the wrong address. There other home invasions in the past two years within a block of me. House across the street has been burglarized a dozen times in as many years (they clearly have nice stuff so they get targeted).

And I live in a relatively decent area.

Oh, that drug dealer eventually found the right address, on the other side of town, btw, and shot their victim.

This is sort of my point - you 'need' guns for self defence because you've created a society in which gun ownership by everyone is the norm.
I live in an actually not-great area, have been burgled, literally had a stolen car set on fire out the house a few weeks ago ... but I never ever think that any of the people who may be a threat to me or anyone else near by has a gun because they don't. The lesser access to guns here makes me safer, not less safe - I see protecting that context as integrally 'self defence'.

The 'I need a gun for self defence' argument is purely contextual. Change the context.

 

[My I]

One of the reason that I don't take any of you gun boys seriously in any discussion is that you immediately tell me and anyone else who asks you a question what we believe and what we're trying to do.

Back to my question, why are so afraid that you feel the need for maximum fire power in a civilized country without a civil war? How many times have you found the perceived threat to be real and you needed your guns to save your life?

Why do women need an full size SUV to feel "EMPOWERED"?

 

[KimGordon67]

Senior Citizen charged with murder

One of you Brits explain this one to me from your perfect crime free country.

I don't recall any Brit describing the UK as either 'perfect' nor 'crime free'. If you want to have an intelligent debate, maybe avoid the hyperbole. It doesn't make your arguments any stronger, and just comes across as a bit silly.

 

[WandaGrabowski]

Why do women need an full size SUV to feel "EMPOWERED"?

That answers all of my questions about you.

 

[My I]

That answers all of my questions about you.

And THAT proves everything I have said about YOU.

 

[BotanyBoy]

One of the reason that I don't take any of you gun boys seriously in any discussion is that you immediately tell me and anyone else who asks you a question what we believe and what we're trying to do.

Well you won't plant a flag in what it is you believe after asking repeatedly....so we're left to assume.

Back to my question, why are so afraid that you feel the need for maximum fire power in a civilized country without a civil war?

Who said anything about needing maximum fire power?

Semi-automatic rifles aren't even close to that....

How many times have you found the perceived threat to be real and you needed your guns to save your life?

If the threat isn't real then explain all the violent crime in the world.

3 times in the US, few dozen times in the middle east/N. Africa.


Why can't you answer the question and say if you think armament for self defense is a rational reason to arm yourself or not?