Why do you suppose the movie,The Godfather, is so popular after all these years?

[squarejohn]

Was it because it had a good cast, a good script, or just good luck?

 

[Stella_Omega]

And a perfect theme song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aV9X2d-f5g

 

[amicus]

Was it because it had a good cast, a good script, or just good luck?

~~~

Through choice, I have never watched any of the GodFather flicks, and while browsing through movie channel offerings, I pass on anything that suggests Mob or Drug Cartel content.

I actually have posed the same question in my mind, 'why do people watch this trash?' What is attractive or 'hip' or modern about gangsters, pimps, prostitutes and social mayhem?

But, then again, I don't 'grok' the female fanaticism about vampires, werewolves, zombies or the whole unhealthy interest in supernatural events, devils and demons.....?

Amicus

 

[driphoney]

*crawls out from under rock*

Never seen it. Is it popular?

Would the book be better?

*slides back under rock*

 

[driphoney]

~~~

Through choice, I have never watched any of the GodFather flicks, and while browsing through movie channel offerings, I pass on anything that suggests Mob or Drug Cartel content.

I actually have posed the same question in my mind, 'why do people watch this trash?' What is attractive or 'hip' or modern about gangsters, pimps, prostitutes and social mayhem?

But, then again, I don't 'grok' the female fanaticism about vampires, werewolves, zombies or the whole unhealthy interest in supernatural events, devils and demons.....?

Amicus

How do you feel about Shakespeare?

 

[TE999]

I would imagine Brando's performance as Don Vito Corleone had a lot to do with the first movie's popularity. He was given a 'Best Actor' Academy Award.

 

[cloudy]

I would imagine Brando's performance as Don Vito Corleone had a lot to do with the first movie's popularity. He was given a 'Best Actor' Academy Award.

Bingo.

Marlon Brando, Al Pacino, James Caan, Abe Vigoda, Diane Keaton, etc....what's not to like?

Brando got a little weird as he got older, but the man could ACT. Vito Corleone was a bad, bad man, but you caught yourself loving the character. Plus, it's a completely American story, about first and second generation immigrants.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

~~~

Through choice, I have never watched any of the GodFather flicks, and while browsing through movie channel offerings, I pass on anything that suggests Mob or Drug Cartel content.

I actually have posed the same question in my mind, 'why do people watch this trash?' What is attractive or 'hip' or modern about gangsters, pimps, prostitutes and social mayhem?

But, then again, I don't 'grok' the female fanaticism about vampires, werewolves, zombies or the whole unhealthy interest in supernatural events, devils and demons.....?

Amicus

Umm, you do know that most Mob movies at their heart are very powerful morality tales? The films might start off by depicting that world as glamourous and exciting, but by the end the audience is usually left in no doubt as to how brutish, shallow and empty it all really is.

It's the dark side of the American dream. You can get the good life, but the costs are always higher than they...hey wait, now I understand why you really don't like them...

 

[jomar]

Because it has everything you need to know about life.

 

[amicus]

Because it has everything you need to know about life.

Vito Corleone was a bad, bad man, but you caught yourself loving the character. Plus, it's a completely American story, about first and second generation immigrants.

Umm, you do know that most Mob movies at their heart are very powerful morality tales? The films might start off by depicting that world as glamourous and exciting, but by the end the audience is usually left in no doubt as to how brutish, shallow and empty it all really is.

It's the dark side of the American dream. You can get the good life, but the costs are always higher than they...hey wait, now I understand why you really don't like them...

~~~

'everything you need to know about life... 'American story,... immigrants...', 'morality tales...dark side....'

I sensed the same 'romanticizing', apologetic aura in the recent film, "Twilight", that is if one equates the criminality of mob activity to the monsters of the imagination.

No doubt that all of them had terrible childhoods, were abused and neglected and remain in need of liberal brow beating and intense therapy since there really is no good and no bad...just grey...

One might describe, in general, patholgical narcissistic personality disorder as the defining characteristic of the Vito Corleone's in this world, and to a lesser extent, every petty criminal so self centered as to think the world revolves around their lives.

One tires quickly of the old James Cagney & Bumphrey Hogart 'gangsta' movies of the mid 20th century. Perhaps it is the subconscious desire to control, through the use of threat, force and intimidation that appeals to closet dictators masquerading as progressive liberals, eh?

Heh...



such a deal...(my tacit contribution to literary humor for today)

Amicus

 

[Dragonlipz]

Gansta Movies and Survivalist Losers in the Wild

Sept. 2 (Bloomberg) -- OAO Gazprom, the world’s biggest natural-gas producer, tripled first-quarter profit to a record after cold weather boosted demand at home and in Europe and the ruble appreciated against the dollar.

Net income climbed to 325 billion rubles ($10.6 billion) from 103.7 billion rubles a year earlier, the Moscow-based company said today on its website. That beat the average estimate of 316.4 billion rubles in a Bloomberg survey of six analysts.

Gas sales, hurt by the economic crisis last year, were supported by low temperatures at home and in Europe this year. Gazprom, Russia’s gas export monopoly, boosted sales volumes 21 percent to 162.2 billion cubic meters in the first quarter, the company said.

“The most interesting thing for Gazprom this year will be how the situation with the mineral extraction tax on gas is resolved,” Alexei Kokin, an analyst at IFC Metropol, said by phone.

The Finance Ministry is seeking to boost oil and gas taxes after Russia had its first budget deficit in a decade last year. The gap may reach 2.4 trillion rubles this year, or 5.4 percent of gross domestic product.

Foreign Exchange Gain
Sales rose 14 percent to 956.8 billion rubles and operating profit gained 20 percent to 339.3 billion rubles, Gazprom said. Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization rose 21 percent to 407 billion rubles, Kokin said.

Gazprom had a net foreign exchange gain of 59.3 billion rubles in the first quarter against a loss of 140 billion rubles a year earlier. Net debt fell 29 percent to 977.3 billion rubles in the first quarter.

Gas prices climbed 34 percent in Russia, Gazprom’s biggest market by volumes, while falling 27 percent in Europe. Russia is gradually raising rates, aiming to make domestic sales as profitable as European exports. This boosted revenue at home 47 percent, compared with a 22 percent drop in Europe, Gazprom said.

Gazprom received 9.5 billion rubles as its share of earnings from the Sakhalin Energy Investment Co., which started Russia’s first liquefied natural gas shipments last year, becoming profitable. Gazprom bought a 50 percent stake plus one share from Royal Dutch Shell Plc, Mitsubishi Corp., and Mitsui & Co. in 2007.

This is the first quarter for which Gazprom used a new methodology, reporting net trading activity, as it did for its full-year 2009 report. Gazprom is the last of Russia’s major oil and gas companies that reports under international standards to publish first-quarter results.

 

[cloudy]

~~~

'everything you need to know about life... 'American story,... immigrants...', 'morality tales...dark side....'

I sensed the same 'romanticizing', apologetic aura in the recent film, "Twilight", that is if one equates the criminality of mob activity to the monsters of the imagination.

No doubt that all of them had terrible childhoods, were abused and neglected and remain in need of liberal brow beating and intense therapy since there really is no good and no bad...just grey...

One might describe, in general, patholgical narcissistic personality disorder as the defining characteristic of the Vito Corleone's in this world, and to a lesser extent, every petty criminal so self centered as to think the world revolves around their lives.

One tires quickly of the old James Cagney & Bumphrey Hogart 'gangsta' movies of the mid 20th century. Perhaps it is the subconscious desire to control, through the use of threat, force and intimidation that appeals to closet dictators masquerading as progressive liberals, eh?

Heh...



such a deal...(my tacit contribution to literary humor for today)

Amicus

You know...perhaps you should, I don't know, watch the damned movie before you form an opinion of it, because you sure look really stupid discussing a movie you've never seen.

Oh, wait...that's normal. Carry on, then.

 

[amicus]

You know...perhaps you should, I don't know, watch the damned movie before you form an opinion of it, because you sure look really stupid discussing a movie you've never seen.

Oh, wait...that's normal. Carry on, then.

~~~


Ah, dear Cloudy, I did watch as much of the first film to make a value judgment that I didn't desire to watch anymore.

I have also never watched a single episode of 'The Simpsons' or, "Family Man", or any other evening sitcom tailor made for the under 100 IQ targetted audience, but, in just the promotional blurbs that pop up, I know I need not watch them either.

But...you just wanted to poke, eh? Or was my critique a lil too close to home?

Oh, wait...that's normal. Carry on, then.



ami

 

[cloudy]

~~~


Ah, dear Cloudy, I did watch as much of the first film to make a value judgment that I didn't desire to watch anymore.

I have also never watched a single episode of 'The Simpsons' or, "Family Man", or any other evening sitcom tailor made for the under 100 IQ targetted audience, but, in just the promotional blurbs that pop up, I know I need not watch them either.

But...you just wanted to poke, eh? Or was my critique a lil too close to home?

Oh, wait...that's normal. Carry on, then.



ami

I don't watch any of those shows, either, however, I also don't start threads about them, and presume I know anything about them without watching the damn things.

What's wrong, ami? No 12-year-olds to chat with tonight?

 

[Huckleman2000]

Great (not just good) cast, great script and story, great cinematography, great score. There is very little about that movie that even the toughest movie critic could find fault with. Even the minor characters are superbly acted, or at least directed well. (The memorable opening wedding scene, where Luca Brasi is nervously delivering his prepared speech to Corleone, was actually the actor flubbing his lines on the first take because he was nervous about working with Brando.)

 

[amicus]

Ayn Rand said something, long ago, that comes to mind, I paraphrase: "Show me the woman a man sleeps with and I will tell you the character of the man..."

The underlying concept is 'values', of course, and it also applies to what one turns to for entertainment, such as films, music and books.

Placing the 'Godfather' as a value in terms of entertainment, also says something about the character of the person.

I will offer a list of some of the films I have enjoyed...see what 'value judgment' concerning my character you can make.

Amicus

 

[manyeyedhydra]

~~~
Ah, dear Cloudy, I did watch as much of the first film to make a value judgment that I didn't desire to watch anymore.

Haha. You really are clueless.

'Romanticizing'? The whole point of these films is to show exactly how fake and worthless that glamourous facade really is.

Of course, if you'd watched the whole film you'd know this. But keep on making an idiot of yourself. I'll go get some popcorn

 

[amicus]

Haha. You really are clueless.

'Romanticizing'? The whole point of these films is to show exactly how fake and worthless that glamourous facade really is.

Of course, if you'd watched the whole film you'd know this. But keep on making an idiot of yourself. I'll go get some popcorn

~~~

Hope you have some liquid refreshment with your popcorn; wouldn't want you to choke at the following:

"Ozymandias" a sonnet by Percy Bysshe Shelley, published in 1818, is perhaps the 'Godfather' of, "Oh how the mighty have fallen..."

Perhaps the shallowness of your education presents a vacuum when it comes to comprehending ongoing human nature. How many times does one have to be presented with re-worked Shakespearian drama before one realizes that human nature remains the same regardless of the time or setting?

There was a time when there were some excellent minds here at the AH, Black Shanglan, Pure, Roxeanne Appleby, just to name a few, which is why I found it comfortable to visit and exhange thoughts about all things common to man.

Of recent there has been a dearth of intellectual curiosity and courage and I am disappointed by that.

The Godfather is sprawling and soap-operatic in tone. The sprawl is appropriate to its origins as a novel by Mario Puzo

The story begins as "Don" Vito Corleone, the head of a New York Mafia "family", oversees his daughter's wedding. His beloved son Michael has just come home from the war, but does not intend to become part of his father's business. Through Michael's life the nature of the family business becomes clear. The business of the family is just like the head of the family, kind and benevolent to those who give respect, but given to ruthless violence whenever anything stands against the good of the family.

Don Vito lives his life in the way of the old country, but times are changing and some don't want to follow the old ways and look out for community and "family". An up and coming rival of the Corleone family wants to start selling drugs in New York, and needs the Don's influence to further his plan. The clash of the Don's fading old world values and the new ways will demand a terrible price, especially from Michael, all for the sake of the family.

Vito Corleone is the aging don (head) of the Corleone Mafia Family. His youngest son Michael has returned from WWII just in time to see the wedding of Connie Corleone (Michael's sister) to Carlo Rizzi. All of Michael's family is involved with the Mafia, but Michael just wants to live a normal life. Drug dealer Virgil Sollozzo is looking for Mafia Families to offer him protection in exchange for a profit of the drug money. He approaches Don Corleone about it, but, much against the advice of the Don's lawyer Tom Hagen, the Don is morally against the use of drugs, and turns down the offer. This does not please Sollozzo, who has the Don shot down by some of his hit men. The Don barely survives, which leads his son Michael to begin a violent mob war against Sollozzo and tears the Corleone family apart.

I read somewhere that the 'Family', is an aspect of Sicilian society, an outgrowth of the old Guild system, where union fought union to maintain high priced labor.

And you call this literature with redeeming value? I don't think so. Sprawling soap opera as the critic noted.

Amicus

 

[Carnevil9]

Amicus, you are way off on this one my friend. The Godfather is a great film because (as others have said), it is that rare beast that does everything right: casting, acting, writing, directing, editing, music, etc. I attribute full credit to Francis Ford Coppola, a master craftsman of the film industry who knows how to create a near-perfect work of art.

It is also a morality tale, the kind where the subtle message is the exact opposite of the overt story. Glorifying its subject matter is the last thing it could be accused of. The fight over entering the drug trade, or staying out of it, is central to the conflict of the plot. Don Corleone dubbed it an "infamita" or infamy.

And as good as the movie is, the book is even better.......Carney

PS - love the Abby avatar!

 

[amicus]

Thanks for the appreciation of Abby....Shuto?...NCIS and "24" kept me waiting each week, and for the same reasons you gave for the "Godfather", a coming together of talent from all aspects.

Puzo's novel came out as a film in 1972, I had just returned from my 'young man's' European gambit and embarked upon building a sailboat in Miami, Florida and was deeply into poetry and philosophy.

Perhaps it was my dislike of Marlon Brando and his 'method' acting of the period, perhaps just an aversion to crime or 'mob' themes in general, or perhaps I just didn't appreciate what was offered.

I have a yellow legal pad full of movie titles, not quite sure why I started it, perhaps to send to my children as worthwhile movies to watch...but I will eventually put them together in an email and perhaps post it....judge then where you think my moral barometer lies.

thanks...

ami

 

[cloudy]

All anyone has to do is read a few reviews of the film to see what value it has. It was nominated for ten Oscars, and won Best Picture, Best Actor (Marlon Brando) and Best Adapted Screenplay.

Says one reviewer, and I totally agree with him, "Vito is a most complicated gangster. In his own words, he is not a killer, and he never mixes business with personal matters. He puts family first ("A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man") and despises displays of weakness. He understands the burden of power, and his wordless sympathy for Michael when he is forced to assume the "throne", is one of The Godfather's most revealing moments (about both father and son)."

Says another, "It may not be possible for a film to be faultless, but this certainly comes close. The ensemble cast are wholly convincing, and there are a string of well-known names involved who weren't at all familiar until this film. The story progresses at perfectly measured pace, moving almost gently between moments of calculated violence. The cinematography and direction are picture-perfect, with immaculate attention to detail. Every aspect of life in those turbulent times is faithfully recreated with great accuracy. “The Godfather” is a credit to all involved."

At IMDB it holds the number one spot in the list of the 250 movies of all time based on votes by their registered users (and there's a ton of them).

It's clear that your taste in films is rather plebeian.

 

[amicus]

"It's clear that your taste in films is rather plebeian."

So sayeth the foul mouthed Cloudy, as if her proffered prose on this forum is any indication of her ability to judge.

Why anyone would find value in celebrating the lives of murderers, gangsters, drug addicts, prostitutes, was beyond me until I read parts of the following review:

http://www.sparknotes.com/film/godfather/context.html

Coppola’s criticism of the Hollywood system goes well beyond this ugly depiction of a Hollywood producer. The Godfather trilogy criticizes the content and structure of typical Hollywood films. By the 1970s, moviegoers were more film literate than those of earlier generations and demanded more for the price of their tickets. One way to appeal to an audience of both sophisticated and unsophisticated viewers is through what critic Robert Ray calls a “corrected” genre film. A corrected genre film has its share of action sequences that appeal to naïve viewers, but it also includes new stylistic devices and an irony-laced plot that appeal to a more critical audience. In Ray’s analysis of Hollywood films, The Godfather is the paradigmatic corrected genre film. To the naive audience, Michael Corleone seems like a heroic outsider battling against the corrupt system—in effect the hero of a Western set in New York City. A more sophisticated audience sees Michael as duplicitous, immoral, and cruel, and will be repulsed by him. But many people would argue that The Godfather isn’t corrected enough. Subsequent gangster films, such as Scarface, Goodfellas, and Donnie Brasco, as well as the popular TV series The Sopranos, all try to further “correct” The Godfather by presenting a grittier, less glamorous view of Mafia life. But this process of criticizing the myth of the Mafia really began in Coppola’s films. Indeed, the most successful correction of The Godfather is probably The Godfather Part II. (The analysis section will explore this argument in greater depth.)

In addition to spawning numerous “corrected” gangster films, The Godfather’s legacy also includes its amazing cast, with actors such as Al Pacino, Robert De Niro, Diane Keaton, James Caan, and Robert Duvall, who have taken their places among the most successful performers of the past thirty years. No less significant is The Godfather’s rehabilitation of the late, incomparable Marlon Brando. Francis Ford Coppola, the director and brains of the entire operation, would himself become a Hollywood fixture, going on to direct classics such as The Conversation and Apocalypse Now. Certain filmic elements, such as the use of montage in The Godfather or of underexposure in the cinematography of The Godfather Part II, have proven highly influential in the decades since.

Lastly, it should be pointed out that the Godfather films took part in the larger social discourse of their times. In 1972 and 1974, when The Godfather and The Godfather Part II were released, respectively, America was experiencing much turmoil and change. Coming on the heels of the turbulent 1960s, while the Vietnam War and the culture wars raged, the Godfather films took part in the New Left critique, exposing the hypocrisy of institutions of power. The Godfather highlights police corruption and the questionable morality of politicians who send their citizens abroad to fight wars. Political corruption is a major theme of The Godfather Part II. The Godfather Part III brings to light the tensions between the worldly and spiritual concerns of the Catholic Church..."

~~~

In essence, which I did not understand, "The Godfather" series, is part and parcel of the counter-culture building out of the Hippy 60's and has become an iconoclastic reference for an entire generation.

Cloudy, et al, there is more to a work of art than the execution; without a theme of value, set in an universal context, by definition, The Godfather, is a period piece reflecting contemporary trends and little more.

You didn't expect we would agree, now did you?

Amicus

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Cloudy, et al, there is more to a work of art than the execution; without a theme of value, set in an universal context, by definition, The Godfather, is a period piece reflecting contemporary trends and little more.

What exactly is the theme of value, set in an universal context, of say... La Gioconda?

 

[amicus]

What exactly is the theme of value, set in an universal context, of say... La Gioconda?

~~~

Hello Lauren Hynde, it has been a very long time...are you still in Portugal? Every time I watch, "The Russia House" with Sean Connery in Lisbon, I think of you....there is a beginning to value and context....smiles...

I stood before La Gioconda at the Louvre, in Paris, many years ago...and smiled...if you want the essential, defining characteristic of that painting, I will offer my perception.

What the Mona Lisa smile offers is repeated in the lyrics of a song, "I saw my unborn children in her eyes..." What da Vinci captured is that ineffable feminine mystique that reflects the eternal awareness of life and death, birth and growth. The theme of value is human life, the universal context is self evident.


Mona Lisa / La Gioconda / La Joconde / Musée du Louvre
Leonardo di ser Pietro DA VINCI, known as Leonardo da Vinci
(Vinci, 1452 – Amboise,1519)

Portrait of Lisa Gherardini, wife of Francesco del Giocondo
Between 1503 and 1506 / Hand Held Capture / "only the best"

The Mona Lisa is 30 to 40 feet away behind rope and enclosed glass,
these ladies are able to get close because one of them is handicapped.

Source: Louvre website

Acquired by Francis I in 1518, acclaimed by artists of the day, the Mona Lisa – also known as La Gioconda – only earned her worldwide fame in the 20th century, more on account of her "adventures" theft (1911–14), stoning (1956), travels to the United States (1963) and Tokyo and Moscow (1974) — than her outstanding qualities. Da Vinci’s dazzling, almost magical technique models the forms through his use of glazes (very diluted, quasi-transparent layers of paint), playing with light and shade effects by making the contours hazy ("sfumato"). Aerial perspective, moving from brown to blue, creates, through the density of the air, an abstract landscape made up of earth and water.

What a pity that the colors darken as the varnish ages: the sleeves were once saffron yellow. The model’s identity has given rise to the oddest suggestions at times, even going as far as to say that she was a man. It is probably a portrait, begun in Florence between 1503 and 1507, of Monna ("Mrs.") Lisa Gherardini del Giocondo. Her smile could thus be a symbol of her name, "gioconda" also meaning "cheerful."

~~~

I trust you are well and in good spirits....



amicus

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

My old man was associated with organized crime. I suppose you'd call him a mob talent scout cuz he auditioned ex-con referrals with sundry capers: stalking politicians, robbery, embezzlement, beatings, criminal mischief, rustling, black mail, arson, murder, etc. Organized crime always needs temp contract talent with no ties to itself, and the talents they require are as various as the military's needs.

The life isnt romantic or glamourous but it can be prosperous if you have talent and avoid suspicion. Most of the players I knew looked like characters from the old Dick Tracy comic strip....weird, and none had beautiful women.

What amazed my young mind the most is how they corrupt justice, and befuddle law enforcement and insurance companies. Its marvelous to behold.