Why do we seek the darkness

[Cagivagurl]

So in my latest adventure I explore some darker themes and it’s slightly further away from the previous stories I’ve done, both of which had relatively happy endings, but both did have some horror elements to them, to be fair.

I didn’t think I’d be heading in this darker direction with this story but… it is now set this way and I couldn’t change it even if I wanted to, which raises the question…these darker issues that we explore and look at, even within the fantasy erotic realm that we all work in, what is it about these topics that pull us in?

I’d let to get your take on this and discuss your darker stories.

IMO...
I think that what we write, is an expression of the mood we are...
The human spirit cycles, goes up and down, flows like a sine wave. We feel elation and sadness. Depending on where we are in that cycle. Is reflected in the atmosphere of our stories...
I think that's part of who we are...

Cagivagurl

 

[lovecraft68]

Not always. I prefer dark good guys over light ones. Cloud over Sephiroth, the Shadow over the Light, Batman over… damn, no good analogy here. I also prefer angels over demons, there you go.

Years ago we have black and white. Good was pure, evil...well evil. As time has moved on we entered the days of the anti hero who's not perfect, but the lesser of evils over their enemy

But we've also shifted to cheering on outright villains like Lechter, that halfwit in saw and similar killers. I guess if I wanted to look at it in the sense of where society lies, its not a good sign.

 

[Bramblethorn]

In retrospect I would not use the name "Doom." It in no way expresses the way I think.

So it has the mood backwards?

 

[lovecraft68]

Back in 2014-2015 my wife was very sick, came close to losing her. Obviously a bleak time for anyone, never mind someone who's always walking that line between trying to stay grounded and spiraling into the nasty recesses of my mind. Never was writing more important to keep me focused on something other than being helpess and mad as hell

I wrote two erotic horror novels filled with violence and other assorted nastiness, but I also penned a dark train wreck of an incest story. It was deliberate, I was in the mind frame to enter a category that despite its extreme nature(and its disturbing real life issues) features a lot of happy consensual fun romps between family members.

Well, I wasn't happy, and I decided I was going to go in there and take them down a dark path. I wrote "That Damn Red Dress" which by title alone was an indication this is not light hearted. It was a father daughter piece, but with no sexy minx of a daughter who goes after daddy, and no lusty father who's dreaming of daddy's little girl.

This piece revolved around grief, guilt and the downward spiral of addiction and how it can tear a family apart. The sex scene was an act of sacrificed on the daughter's part. The thoughts in her head during it weren't erotic, they were disturbing and creepy, as she gave herself to her father. Before I released this, and as I always do, I read this to my wife, who knew what was coming because she knew where my head was.

When I was done, she said it was good, but fucked up a wet dream good. But she asked what I expected for a score, and I figured very low 4 and only because my fan base would probably vote it up even if it wasn't there thing. The story -A Valentine's contest entry no less because I admit I was in the mood to shit on everything- and I recall when I hit published did it in the spirit of "Are you not entertained" but it finished in the mid 4.7's and is still around there now.

I expected a beating in the comments, and got a few, but for the most part the consensus was "well written but...." Two comments stood out to me, and were exactly what I was looking for, the perfect reaction to what I felt the piece represented which wasn't sexy daddy's cockwhore fun, but some real life bullshit.

These are the comments

tygzover 9 years ago
Definitely disturbing - verging on erotic horror, except I didn't really find it especially erotic.
Still, it's a very powerful story and exceptionally well-written - I say this without being able to decide if I actually *like* the story - it merits 5 stars even if you don't get off on the semi-nonconsensual aspects of it (she didn't feel like she had a choice, after all; she had a figurative gun to her head, and I personally don't get excited by that imagery).
Ever see a movie that had a strong message, was acted really well and still made your skin crawl? That movie probably won many Oscars; this is the short-story equivalent. Read it.

nonymousover 9 years ago
Disturbing?
Yes, it was disturbing. It was more disturbing than erotic, but I have to give a 5 to writing that can disturb me that much! After all, Kafka did the same thing to me

Yeah, its a free erotica site, and yes we have to take things for what they're worth, but to be mentioned in the same breath as Kafka regardless of where it happens might be one of the finest complements I've ever gotten. The story reflected my dark turn of mind and let me get some of it out.

 

[oneagainst]

So in my latest adventure I explore some darker themes and it’s slightly further away from the previous stories I’ve done, both of which had relatively happy endings, but both did have some horror elements to them, to be fair.

I didn’t think I’d be heading in this darker direction with this story but… it is now set this way and I couldn’t change it even if I wanted to, which raises the question…these darker issues that we explore and look at, even within the fantasy erotic realm that we all work in, what is it about these topics that pull us in?

I’d let to get your take on this and discuss your darker stories.

I've been discussing this with another author on here, who can identify themselves if they want. Especially in NC/R and to a certain extent MC and LW, there's definitely an element of the readership who enjoy the vicarious masochistic trauma of the wife leaving, or the spouse being cruel, or descending to a powerless state. There is the idea that the author is vicariously the sadist, twisting the knife to provide the torment, which has implications in terms of responsibility to the characters and the readership. In others of these stories, I suspect the author experiences the same vicarious masochistic thrill of acting out the torment, with the characters as puppets. If you write in this vein, do you enjoy twisting the knife, or do you enjoy the knife twisting you?

Then there is the other, very different, darkness: the more conventional idea that it's always darkest before the dawn, that the pendulum has to be allowed to swing all the way one way so that it completes an epic sweep in the other direction. Without the contrast, is there really enough of a change to make the story exciting?

Despite writing extensively in NC/R and MC, and having been noted as a "darker" author, I have come to believe I'm actually in the latter camp. I'm a fan of happily ever after, I just believe that happy endings aren't given. They have to be earned.

 

[SeraphNocturne]

I've been discussing this with another author on here, who can identify themselves if they want. Especially in NC/R and to a certain extent MC and LW, there's definitely an element of the readership who enjoy the vicarious masochistic trauma of the wife leaving, or the spouse being cruel, or descending to a powerless state. There is the idea that the author is vicariously the sadist, twisting the knife to provide the torment, which has implications in terms of responsibility to the characters and the readership. In others of these stories, I suspect the author experiences the same vicarious masochistic thrill of acting out the torment, with the characters as puppets. If you write in this vein, do you enjoy twisting the knife, or do you enjoy the knife twisting you?

Then there is the other, very different, darkness: the more conventional idea that it's always darkest before the dawn, that the pendulum has to be allowed to swing all the way one way so that it completes an epic sweep in the other direction. Without the contrast, is there really enough of a change to make the story exciting?

Despite writing extensively in NC/R and MC, and having been noted as a "darker" author, I have come to believe I'm actually in the latter camp. I'm a fan of happily ever after, I just believe that happy endings aren't given. They have to be earned.

I’ll bite.

When it comes to writing in the NC/R category, it’s a bit of both for me; I dwell in a strange grey area of duality. I write comfortably from a position of third person, omnipresent narrator. I seat myself in the role of the sadist and the masochist, and can relate to both the villain and heroine. It’s a rather bitter sweet feeling, really. Sometimes I do have to take a break with darker work, it can be very intense. I’m with you on team “HEA”… I’m also with you on the idea that it shouldn’t be expected in darker work.

Anyone familiar with my work knows that erotica is an afterthought when pitted against the plot and character progression. I suspect if I continue to publish in this category that will be a prevalent theme. The series I’m working on at present initially began as an Erotic Horror tale, and I think it’s still very true to that trope. I don’t write gratuitous violence or nonconsensual scenes willy-nilly, and I don’t take the category lightly or indulge for shock factor. I think for this reason I prefer to avoid penning darker stories in first person, shit gets a bit too real for my tastes writing that way.

As I mentioned earlier, I have my reasons why I personally enjoy writing dark stories. I’m happy to shed insight on that for those who might have that morbid curiosity itch, but I typically keep my meanings to myself and don’t much bat an eye at judgment. When it comes to darker work I find that with proper tags and time, the audience you penned such stories for will find you.

 

[oneagainst]

I think for this reason I prefer to avoid penning darker stories in first person, shit gets a bit too real for my tastes writing that way.

It's definitely down at the coalface, sitting in the first person and going through with it. I've had comments that would indicate some readers go all the way down that rabbit hole and binge all the chapters and then worry about it for days afterwards. It's what I said about the responsibility when providing an open bar to people with a drinking challenge.

As I mentioned earlier, I have my reasons why I personally enjoy writing dark stories. I’m happy to shed insight on that for those who might have that morbid curiosity itch, but I typically keep my meanings to myself and don’t much bat an eye at judgment.

Now that sounds interesting.

 

[Duleigh]

these darker issues that we explore and look at, even within the fantasy erotic realm that we all work in, what is it about these topics that pull us in?

It give our MCs the ability to come out and rise above the darkness. That's what a story is all about. I love to write about the darkness and despair but I like to write about beating the darkness the most

 

[Euphony]

In retrospect I would not use the name "Doom." It in no way expresses the way I think. I just thought it sounded kind of cool at the time.

But... but ... DOOM is eternal.

 

[SimonDoom]

But... but ... DOOM is eternal.

View attachment 2251070

I was a big Doom 2 fan. It was my first 1st person shoot em up. Moved on to Quake and Half-Life after that.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I was a big Doom 2 fan. It was my first 1st person shoot em up. Moved on to Quake and Half-Life after that.

You made the right choice. Simon Quake or Simon Half-Life don't have the same mojo, not by a long shot.

 

[DeLaFaye]

We poison ourselves bit by bit in fantasy so that when we are faced with such poisons in real life they do not consume us entirely.

 

[Euphony]

You made the right choice. Simon Quake or Simon Half-Life don't have the same mojo, not by a long shot.

I would like to put forth "SimonCrysis" for a vote.

I think he can run it.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

We poison ourselves bit by bit in fantasy so that when we are faced with such poisons in real life they do not consume us entirely.

That is pretty spot on. Though I think Mithridatism, seeking immunity from future darkness by experiencing it in small controlled doses, is just one reason we explore darkness. Antivenom administration is the other one. Having already experienced darkness, we often seek to heal from it by reliving it, again, in small controlled doses.

And then there is the fact that dark characters doing dark deeds for dark reasons are just plain seductive, fascinating.

@oneagainst said:

I've been discussing this with another author on here, who can identify themselves if they want. [...] If you write in this vein, do you enjoy twisting the knife, or do you enjoy the knife twisting you?

Guilty. I would clarify that I am a firm subcriber to the fact that sadism and masochism are two sides of the same coin. You best know how to inflct pain, if you have experienced pain. And the kind of knife we deal with has no handle, just blade. Twisting and being twisted by it is just about the same thing.

As oneagainst said, we were talking about dark femdom specifically. The kind that is too dark for BDSM or Fetish, and fits better in NC/R. In that context, I'll just quote the twisted fuck who started it all.

Man is the one who desires, woman the one who is desired. This is woman's entire but decisive advantage. [...]
The more cruelly she treats him and the more faithless she is, the worse she uses him, the more wantonly she plays with him, the less pity she shows him, by so much the more will she increase his desire, be loved, worshipped by him.

That is pretty dark, but I think Sacher-Masoch hit the nail in the head on that one.

 

[DeLaFaye]

Having already experienced darkness, we often seek to heal from it by reliving it, again, in small controlled doses.

Exposure therapy seems to do little but numb us to what ails us. Often better than the alternative, still not a cure. But we don't actually want to be healed, do we? There is something seductive to the darkness, as you say. Although I, respectfully, strongly disagree with the gendered dichotomy.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

Exposure therapy seems to do little but numb us to what ails us. Often better than the alternative, still not a cure. But we don't actually want to be healed, do we? There is something seductive to the darkness, as you say. Although I, respectfully, strongly disagree with the gendered dichotomy.

Fair. Though on the second point, I did say in the context of femdom, which is by definition gendered.

That said, there are biological differences in human reproduction that do create a gendered asymmetry, an imbalance. The biological investment for reproduction is much higher for the female than the male, which makes, meant in the sense of a statistical distributions compared to a statisctical distribution, the female more guarded than the male. This guardedness leads to some interesting supply/demand dynamics between the genders, which in turns allows what Sacher-Masoch describes to take place.

 

[SimonDoom]

I want my readers to find joy in my stories, and I want them to come away believing that that kind of joy is attainable in the real world where they live, not just some fantasy land where everybody's 18 forever. Sometimes that means acknowledging the darkness in this world and showing people who manage to carve out joy even while they're caught in the dragon's fangs, with no St. George on the way.

I'll extend this metaphor in a slightly different way. Sex is like a cultural map full of "Thar be dragons" signs. We (well, many of us) are raised to be chock-full of ideas about all the things you can't do--all the taboos and lines you cannot cross. Erotica is a way of slaying the dragons, of exploring how one might cross the lines and get away with it, and there's a lot of fun in that (and maybe some learning as well).

I depart a little bit from your approach in that with some of my stories, and in the case of some other stories that I like, I don't necessarily want to encourage the view that "you can get joy from this in the real world" but I want to say to readers "but you can have fun IMAGINING that you can for a little while in the universe that this story creates." That's why I think there is a role for including dark, transgressive stuff in erotica that one wouldn't necessarily encourage in the real world.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

I'll extend this metaphor in a slightly different way. Sex is like a cultural map full of "Thar be dragons" signs. We (well, many of us) are raised to be chock-full of ideas about all the things you can't do--all the taboos and lines you cannot cross. Erotica is a way of slaying the dragons, of exploring how one might cross the lines and get away with it, and there's a lot of fun in that (and maybe some learning as well).

I depart a little bit from your approach in that with some of my stories, and in the case of some other stories that I like, I don't necessarily want to encourage the view that "you can get joy from this in the real world" but I want to say to readers "but you can have fun IMAGINING that you can for a little while in the universe that this story creates." That's why I think there is a role for including dark, transgressive stuff in erotica that one wouldn't necessarily encourage in the real world.

I think this thinking is particularly applicable to all the incest and taboo stuff. Though i’ll be provocative by saying incest and taboo should not be a problem IRL either, so long as it is between consenting adults not reproducing. In fact in a number of European countries I believe non reproductive 1st degree incest is not illegal so long as it is between consenting adults.

 

[DeLaFaye]

Fair. Though on the second point, I did say in the context of femdom, which is by definition gendered.

I absolutely spaced on that. My bad!

I have a very hard time with what little value is placed on women once they do become mothers and the preciousness that women are regarded with up until then. My opinion is also more than a bit colored, as such I do not feel my insights regarding their supply/demand would be terribly fruitful. But hey, this stuff is fantasy, right? It's supposed to be an escape, one way or another.

 

[John_Vandermeer]

I absolutely spaced on that. My bad!

I have a very hard time with what little value is placed on women once they do become mothers and the preciousness that women are regarded with up until then. My opinion is also more than a bit colored, as such I do not feel my insights regarding their supply/demand would be terribly fruitful. But hey, this stuff is fantasy, right? It's supposed to be an escape, one way or another.

BTW, no need to be too apologetic. When these threads have gotten heated in the past (this one is not) some of us men have been accused of mansplaining and what not. I think we can all be confident, even firm, in our views while being polite. It maaay be a gendered response, on average, men are more used to standing their ground, rather than accomodating. I dont see that as mansplaining, but whatever..

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'll extend this metaphor in a slightly different way. Sex is like a cultural map full of "Thar be dragons" signs. We (well, many of us) are raised to be chock-full of ideas about all the things you can't do--all the taboos and lines you cannot cross. Erotica is a way of slaying the dragons, of exploring how one might cross the lines and get away with it, and there's a lot of fun in that (and maybe some learning as well).

I depart a little bit from your approach in that with some of my stories, and in the case of some other stories that I like, I don't necessarily want to encourage the view that "you can get joy from this in the real world" but I want to say to readers "but you can have fun IMAGINING that you can for a little while in the universe that this story creates." That's why I think there is a role for including dark, transgressive stuff in erotica that one wouldn't necessarily encourage in the real world.

I depart from that approach occasionally myself. "Red Callum, Sweet Cate" and "The Floggings Will Continue..." are not stories I would encourage folk to re-enact in the real world.

 

[DeLaFaye]

BTW, no need to be too apologetic. When these threads have gotten heated in the past (this one is not) some of us men have been accused of mansplaining and what not. I think we can all be confident, even firm, in our views while being polite. It maaay be a gendered response, on average, men are more used to standing their ground, rather than accomodating. I dont see that as mansplaining, but whatever..

Men are mansplaining cunts and women are aggressive dicks and I love you all.

In all seriousness, the mansplaining card is pulled too often. Likewise, women are called aggressive too often when we do hold our ground. It's something that bothered me in my 20s, now I've realized it helped weed out the wrong sort from the right. Unfortunately it's still a prevalent issue where males aren't used to a female opinion having an equal footing to their own.

FWIW - Women break one another down more often than men. I think it's because we seem an easier target for one another, for better or worse. I personally don't get it, but it is what it is.

 

[NotWise]

FWIW - Women break one another down more often than men. I think it's because we seem an easier target for one another, for better or worse. I personally don't get it, but it is what it is.

Could it be that women compete with each other the same way that men compete with each other?

 

[onehitwanda]

I think it's because we seem an easier target for one another, for better or worse. I personally don't get it, but it is what it is.

Tall poppy syndrome, maybe? I don't know; I don't have the energy to deal with other people so I tend to just ignore them and go do something else

 

[LexxRuthless]

I depart from that approach occasionally myself. "Red Callum, Sweet Cate" and "The Floggings Will Continue..." are not stories I would encourage folk to re-enact in the real world.

I don't know that it is a necessary addition, but it is something I put at the beginning of every story I submit here:
<i>The Usual Disclaimer: This is a work of fantasy. All characters featured in sexual situations are over 18. The characters in these stories are fictional. Any resemblance to actual persons living, dead or undead is purely coincidental. Do not try this at home.</i>

After that, I try to put a cork into my naturally dark sense of humor and write stories I think people will enjoy reading. Usually farcical, and not that dark. Over half of the stories I've posted here were in response to very specific reader requests. That was something I never anticipated when I finally made an account and began posting stories here -- I got a slew of e-mails right away, and people asked if I would write their story idea for them. That has been a really cool experience, as I'd send them new installments and get their feedback until the story was finished.

But...there was one occasion where the person was going through a particularly bleak period in his real life while I was writing a "silly incest story" for him. He had nobody else he could open up to, so I wound up being that friend. The story had nothing to do with either of us, but the writing process became a deeply personal experience. It's not like I was "drawn to" that darkness, but the story became much more memorable and meaningful for me because I had made a new friend and faced the darkness by his side.

That said, I do have one pretty fucken dark story here: The Hypnotist: A Fucked-Up Sequel.