Why do so many readers lack the ability to separate fact from fiction?

[Tio_Narratore]

But do they really think the stories are true, or do they only act as if they're true? I know some readers may actually believe the tales are truth, but I'm not sure if pressed that many would insist that it's non-fiction.

I've had the discussion with colleagues in Literature Departments, many of whom have decried the "fact" that so many people believe that TV soap opera characters are real, yet they themselves treat fictional characters from the lit they teach as if they were real. My colleagues commonly ask students to write essays answering questions such as "Why did Santiago risk his life to catch the marlin," and commonly complain when a "smart-ass" student writes "because Hemmingway made him do it." They expect an answer that presumes Santiago (or Gatsby or...) is a real person with real motivations. When pressed, they will agree that they are acting as if the character is a real person, but that they do know it's fiction. Could this be the case with many other readers?

 

[NotWise]

But do they really think the stories are true, or do they only act as if they're true? I know some readers may actually believe the tales are truth, but I'm not sure if pressed that many would insist that it's non-fiction.

I think on Lit a lot of people want to think the stories are true because they're more arousing if they're true. Whether or not they actually believe the stories are true is something else.

I've had the discussion with colleagues in Literature Departments, many of whom have decried the "fact" that so many people believe that TV soap opera characters are real, yet they themselves treat fictional characters from the lit they teach as if they were real. My colleagues commonly ask students to write essays answering questions such as "Why did Santiago risk his life to catch the marlin," and commonly complain when a "smart-ass" student writes "because Hemmingway made him do it." They expect an answer that presumes Santiago (or Gatsby or...) is a real person with real motivations. When pressed, they will agree that they are acting as if the character is a real person, but that they do know it's fiction. Could this be the case with many other readers?

Aren't questions like that really just testing whether the student has digested the decades of literary analysis that the instructor tried to teach them?

 

[Tio_Narratore]

I think on Lit a lot of people want to think the stories are true because they're more arousing if they're true. Whether or not they actually believe the stories are true is something else.



Aren't questions like that really just testing whether the student has digested the decades of literary analysis that the instructor tried to teach them?

The literary analysis, at least prior to post-modernism, has always been based on the unstated premise that the character is real. One looks for motivation in the nature of the character, not in the nature of the author or the requirements of the story. One suspends disbelief in order to reify the characters, but one may forget it is reification nonetheless. When I was in high school many years ago, we were part of an NSF study of students' scientific knowledge. They gave us each an identical Superman comic book and asked us to explain how Superman could do these extraordinary things. I answered that Superman was a drawing and therefore could do anything he could be drawn doing. This was outside of the scoring protocol for the study so I ended up explaining to two physicists that I would have been happy to give them "scientific" explanations if they had asked how Superman could do those things if he were real. They hadn't considered that underlying assumption. Always be clear about your assumptions if you want to really know what you're getting in response.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Many authors do put facts in their fiction (or at least, facts as they see them), so perhaps it's not entirely fair on readers to suppose they should write everything off as just make-believe.

 

[jp55665566]

because they have bio-emulated an intellectual superior (smart phone), and lost the ability to evaluate raw data.

 

[Hypoxia]

Back in the day, a 'novel' (or 'romans' in Latinate languages) was a longer piece of fiction. Then came graphic novels, and faction like In Cold Blood, and now we have fiction novels and non-fiction novels and more. So it's easy to assume that everything displayed is true, or it's all false, and reality does or doesn't matter, whatever. This leads to insanity. No wonder the outpatients are out in force here.

 

[jehoram]

Some people and some cultures have no concept of fiction.

In their view anything written is either true or it is lies, and lies should be abhorred.

I think they made a movie about this very thing. It was called "Galaxy Quest."

 

[Hypoxia]

I think they made a movie about this very thing. It was called "Galaxy Quest."

I was semi-invited to the official video release party for Galaxy Quest since I ran an online UFO-paranormal-conspiracy forum. The party was at the Little A-Lee-Inn in Rachel, Nevada, near the Area 51 site, along the Extraterrestrial Highway (a relic of the film Independence Day promotion). Some minor co-stars were there. The party featured alien impersonators; winner was a local construction guy in a NASA spacesuit, 'flown' to the stage by a crane cable. A 50,000 watt "UFO beacon" was fired up, beaming into space. Beer flowed.

Then they played Galaxy Quest on a lousy video projector on an outside screen overpowered by the nearby UFO beacon. I'd not drunk enough beer to watch the flick. I think I read the screenplay later. Whatever.

 

[kurrginatorX]

There is a guiding light within us all called "common sense" that helps differentiate between fact and fiction. On a site such as this, a site dedicated to erotic fiction, common sense states that anything one reads must be considered fiction.

 

[TeflonGuy]

Back in the day, a 'novel' (or 'romans' in Latinate languages) was a longer piece of fiction. Then came graphic novels, and faction like In Cold Blood, and now we have fiction novels and non-fiction novels and more. So it's easy to assume that everything displayed is true, or it's all false, and reality does or doesn't matter, whatever. This leads to insanity. No wonder the outpatients are out in force here.

LMFAO!

Funny, but true.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

"common sense"

In the same category as:

• kosher bacon
• halal vodka
• political ethics
• virgin prostitute
• honest reporter
• military intelligence

 

[Hypoxia]

In the same category as:

• kosher bacon
• halal vodka
• political ethics
• virgin prostitute
• honest reporter
• military intelligence

Only a slight quibble over the last. 'Intelligence' here does not mean IQ or smarts, but information. Geographic intel drives mapping. Covert intel comes from spying. But we can add to the list:

• Christian Science, Political Science, Computer Science -- any label with 'science' in it.
• fundamentalism (common fundamentals are ignored)
• software engineering (engineers must be licensed)
• social engineering (society is not a machine)
• equal rights (some are more equal than others)
• sexual freedom (you're fucked one way or another)
• honest cop, pol, or judge (one who stays bought)
• simple truth (shit is always more complicated)
• alternate reality (just fucking lies and fantasies)

PS: A senior rabbi ruled that lab-grown bacon is kosher. Enjoy.

 

[oggbashan]

There is a guiding light within us all called "common sense" that helps differentiate between fact and fiction. On a site such as this, a site dedicated to erotic fiction, common sense states that anything one reads must be considered fiction.

Common sense is an oxymoron.

It isn't common.

Another example is Military Intelligence.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Common sense is an oxymoron.

It isn't common.

Also, "common sense" is often misused to mean "I can't imagine how I might be wrong", by people who are very very wrong indeed.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

Ever read Shakespeare In The Bush? It's an anthropologist's account of discussing Hamlet with members of a West African tribe and demonstrates that some truths are just interpretations, in literature and otherwise.

 

[TANSTAAFL58]

Only a slight quibble over the last. 'Intelligence' here does not mean IQ or smarts, but information. Geographic intel drives mapping. Covert intel comes from spying. But we can add to the list:

• Christian Science, Political Science, Computer Science -- any label with 'science' in it.
• fundamentalism (common fundamentals are ignored)
• software engineering (engineers must be licensed)
• social engineering (society is not a machine)
• equal rights (some are more equal than others)
• sexual freedom (you're fucked one way or another)
• honest cop, pol, or judge (one who stays bought)
• simple truth (shit is always more complicated)
• alternate reality (just fucking lies and fantasies)

PS: A senior rabbi ruled that lab-grown bacon is kosher. Enjoy.

I think I can top all of those. It is Provincial Election Day in Ontario, Canada. The party favoured to form the next government is called "the Ontario Progressive-Conservative Party" .

No, really. Google it!

 

[TeflonGuy]

Ever read Shakespeare In The Bush? It's an anthropologist's account of discussing Hamlet with members of a West African tribe and demonstrates that some truths are just interpretations, in literature and otherwise.

Interesting.

Is there humor? Or just facts and talking points?

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

Interesting.

Is there humor? Or just facts and talking points?

The pdf is available online and I thought it was amusing. Basically, it's an anthropologist describing how the tribe elders had her drink beer and tell the story of Hamlet in words they might use, but they constantly interrupt to correct her. At the end, an elder says “You tell the story well, and we are listening. But it is clear that the elders of your country have never told you what the story really means. No, don’t interrupt! We believe you when you say your marriage customs are different, or your clothes and weapons. But people are the same everywhere; therefore, there are always witches and it is we, the elders, who know how witches work..."

 

[JasonClearwater]

I was semi-invited to the official video release party for Galaxy Quest since I ran an online UFO-paranormal-conspiracy forum.

This is an unexpected plot twist. Tell me more.

 

[TeflonGuy]

The pdf is available online and I thought it was amusing. Basically, it's an anthropologist describing how the tribe elders had her drink beer and tell the story of Hamlet in words they might use, but they constantly interrupt to correct her. At the end, an elder says “You tell the story well, and we are listening. But it is clear that the elders of your country have never told you what the story really means. No, don’t interrupt! We believe you when you say your marriage customs are different, or your clothes and weapons. But people are the same everywhere; therefore, there are always witches and it is we, the elders, who know how witches work..."

I'm truly intrigued now. Seems like a rare gem.

Have you seen/read "The 13th Warrior"?

It's similar in nature, but the main character is a male.

Thank you!

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

I'm truly intrigued now. Seems like a rare gem.

Have you seen/read "The 13th Warrior"?

It's similar in nature, but the main character is a male.

Thank you!

I haven't, but I looked it up and saw it had a character named Beowulf and an actor named Antonio Banderas so I'm sold Thanks!
I read the essay in a collection called Conformity And Conflict, which I thought demonstrates that many so-called truths, morally or otherwise, are cultural interpretations, often made to reinforce social order.

 

[NotWise]

I read the essay in a collection called Conformity And Conflict, which I thought demonstrates that many so-called truths, morally or otherwise, are cultural interpretations, often made to reinforce social order.

Now you're going all post-modern.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

Now you're going all post-modern.

post-postmodern
*Post-postmodern posting

 

[Yorkiechai]

To further confuse and clarify

post-postmodern
*Post-postmodern posting

the idea of fiction and fact (which are not, I would suggest, a dichotomy) try reading the fiction/auto-biography of American author Tim O'Brien entitled "The Things They Carried". He writes, among other things, that "story truth is often truer than happening truth".

And on another note, but pertinent to this thread, I've noticed a lot of readers make the assumption, having noted my gender from my profile I would assume, that any narrative voice I adopt in my writing must also be female (and, therefore, me).

 

[Hypoxia]

This is an unexpected plot twist. Tell me more.

Not much to tell. I went online in 1975 (milnet), onto corporate nets in 1979, and public nets in 1981 (WWIVnet, MicroNet, then FidoNet) after we built the HeathKit H8 system. I hit the Internet with Gopher and usenet around 1988 and was active on some alt newsgroups and psycho e-lists.

A major UFO-paranormal-conspiracy site invited me to moderate, as the "voice of reason." Conspiracy theories eventually devolve to blaming Jews. A few months of that was enough. I quit, then ran similar sites, some large, antisemitism prohibited. For some years I sent out multiple bulletins daily featuring psycho news items and questions. My readership was rather large.

That was enough to get me sort-of invited to the Galaxy Quest thang. Must have been in mid-2000. I drove our RV (a cheap 25-footer) to mid-Nevada with faithful Jake the Golden by my side. We followed Glenn Campbell's AREA 51 USER'S GUIDE, scanned the Black Mailbox, drove to the base boundary surveilled by Cammo Guys, then back to Rachel NV for the event.

The event attracted more than a few psycho online journalists. We mostly interviewed each other, the locals being shy and the starlets being elsewhere. Everyone hit the refreshments table for crackers, wrapped cheese, apples, and watered Franzia box wine. This was the bottom-shelf version of Hollyweird release parties.

Homeward bound, I drove across a dry lake and learned a lesson. DON'T DRIVE THERE UNLESS YOU CAN SEE HOW YOU GOT THERE because finding another way out of a playa lined with big brush is problematic. We escaped. Whew.

BTW there are nice mountains nearby for camping. We go there at times.