why do more and more USA veteran commit suicide now?

[dominatrixjane]

why do more and more USA veteran commit suicide now?


https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...cerns-among-experts-hoping-for-positive-news/

the veteran suicide rate is significantly higher than that of the general population. According to the most recent data, more than 6,000 veterans commit suicide on an annual basis. This comes out to an average of 17 veteran deaths by suicide per day.

https://americanmilitarynews.com/20...dont-forget-the-residual-consequences-of-war/

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I wish to God that I knew. Each and Every Day

 

[Crownvic]

why do more and more USA veteran commit suicide now?


https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...cerns-among-experts-hoping-for-positive-news/

the veteran suicide rate is significantly higher than that of the general population. According to the most recent data, more than 6,000 veterans commit suicide on an annual basis. This comes out to an average of 17 veteran deaths by suicide per day.

https://americanmilitarynews.com/20...dont-forget-the-residual-consequences-of-war/

The V.A...has more that they can handle..to help our vets...I am a Vietnam vet...the adjusting is very hard...it took me a good six months...but thankfully I am leading a pretty good life....some of my comrades have not done as well...

 

[Gypsytag]

2 reasons.

1st - US healthcare sucks unless you have money.

2nd - They realized that they were American and couldn't take it anymore.

 

[BotanyBoy]

In the Army(or other branch) Joe (Marine etc) is a part of a team, has a sense of belonging, Joe has a purpose in life, people rely on Joe.

Joe does cool shit, gets out, has some adventure and the very best Joes get the ultimate adrenaline rushes.

The military provides all these things, Joe gets addicted to all them....and then one day it's all gone.

If Joe does not have a community, a family, a reason to get up in the morning and go achieve? And a lot don't without the military providing it, then some Joes struggle.

The other reason I've seen a lot of is some people just get sad as fuck that they're never going to get to do shit that cool ever again.

They love their job, which happen to be some of the hardest jobs in the world to get, they've made massive sacrifices, commitment and effort just to do what they do, then one day it's all over. They never get to fly an F-15 again, kick in some door at 2am and smoke some baddies, fly a choppa into a shit storm to medivac your peeps, sneak in behind enemy lines and blow some bridge up, sail the 7 seas or whatever....there are military adventures are of all sorts. That can be totally fuckin' heart breaking and some folks just can't come to terms with it coming to an end.

 

[HisArpy]

In the Army(or other branch) Joe (Marine etc) is a part of a team, has a sense of belonging, Joe has a purpose in life, people rely on Joe.

Joe does cool shit, gets out, has some adventure and the very best Joes get the ultimate adrenaline rushes.

The military provides all these things, Joe gets addicted to all them....and then one day it's all gone.

If Joe does not have a community, a family, a reason to get up in the morning and go achieve? And a lot don't without the military providing it, then some Joes struggle.

The other reason I've seen a lot of is some people just get sad as fuck that they're never going to get to do shit that cool ever again.

They love their job, which happen to be some of the hardest jobs in the world to get, they've made massive sacrifices, commitment and effort just to do what they do, then one day it's all over. They never get to fly an F-15 again, kick in some door at 2am and smoke some baddies, fly a choppa into a shit storm to medivac your peeps, sneak in behind enemy lines and blow some bridge up, sail the 7 seas or whatever....there are military adventures are of all sorts. That can be totally fuckin' heart breaking and some folks just can't come to terms with it coming to an end.

Then there's the opposite side of the coin. Some Joe's were ordered to do things they weren't equipped to do mentally. And no one cared. Instead it was "suck it up soldier". So they did.

These Joes got out at the end of their tour and found that their memories of family and friends were either wrong or changed somehow from what they remembered. No more cozy comforts at home. The home they were longing to return to. The family they needed but who now looks at them funny. Or treats them differently.

And then you add in the bad memories on top of all that. Because being a Joe isn't easy and there's tons of bad shit that happens sometimes. Shit you don't talk about because you're not allowed to. Or you just can't open up enough.

PTSD is no joke. To protect themselves a lot of sufferers build walls to keep the pain at bay. Walls so strong that help can't get through. But, eventually the walls will suffocate you. Some remove part of the wall and start to live again as best they can. Others tear down the walls and cry for help. Others just give up without saying anything to anyone because the pain is too great and they're not the kind to share it anyway.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Then there's the opposite side of the coin. Some Joe's were ordered to do things they weren't equipped to do mentally. And no one cared. Instead it was "suck it up soldier". So they did.

These Joes got out at the end of their tour and found that their memories of family and friends were either wrong or changed somehow from what they remembered. No more cozy comforts at home. The home they were longing to return to. The family they needed but who now looks at them funny. Or treats them differently.

And then you add in the bad memories on top of all that. Because being a Joe isn't easy and there's tons of bad shit that happens sometimes. Shit you don't talk about because you're not allowed to. Or you just can't open up enough.

PTSD is no joke. To protect themselves a lot of sufferers build walls to keep the pain at bay. Walls so strong that help can't get through. But, eventually the walls will suffocate you. Some remove part of the wall and start to live again as best they can. Others tear down the walls and cry for help. Others just give up without saying anything to anyone because the pain is too great and they're not the kind to share it anyway.

All true......

 

[seeshelly]

Jokes about suicide?

2 reasons.

1st - US healthcare sucks unless you have money.

2nd - They realized that they were American and couldn't take it anymore.

You are right about the Vets Health care system. The problem is that it is run by the government. Good thing we don't have them running all the health care like they want to. Then the suicide rate would go way up across the board.

But your second reason gave me pause. Do you believe that being an American is so stressful that it would result in high numbers of suicides or were you just making a leftist joke about other peoples tragic deaths?

I take it that you are not an American otherwise you would have killed yourself. So, may I ask which wonderful country you are from?

(Note to readers: Please do not expect real answers to my questions. Whoever made this disgusting comment is no doubt a withering coward)

 

[bellisarius]

The reasons are legion I suppose. I think it ties in to the much higher rates of PTSD. There is a recent study out there that attributes the increased PTSD rates to the fact that each succeeding generation of Americans has led relatively sheltered lives. The extreme violence that's encountered in combat is a shock to the system. Is the study right? I don't know but it makes more sense than most of the other reasons I've read.

Botany Boy's point is well taken as well and is probably another contributing factor.

I would also throw in "Survivor Guilt" as another factor.

 

[Gypsytag]

You are right about the Vets Health care system. The problem is that it is run by the government. Good thing we don't have them running all the health care like they want to. Then the suicide rate would go way up across the board.

But your second reason gave me pause. Do you believe that being an American is so stressful that it would result in high numbers of suicides or were you just making a leftist joke about other peoples tragic deaths?

I take it that you are not an American otherwise you would have killed yourself. So, may I ask which wonderful country you are from?

(Note to readers: Please do not expect real answers to my questions. Whoever made this disgusting comment is no doubt a withering coward)

I'm sure being an American is stressful. You're surrounded by smug lunatics all day.

I'm Canadian if you must know.

Now what other questions was I too much of a coward to answer, SFB?

 

[suurfer]

Good reads...

I wonder if BB's take applies more to the current US system - where people join the military voluntarily, and look at it as a career.
And his HisArpy's - to those drafted during long periods of war.

It's pretty cruel that they invest all their youth in it, and once they get old - bye bye. And they have skills - they could be fasttracked towards joining law enforcement or security positions.

 

[heathergives]

why do more and more USA veteran commit suicide now?


One word: LIBERALS

 

[BotanyBoy]

The reasons are legion I suppose. I think it ties in to the much higher rates of PTSD. There is a recent study out there that attributes the increased PTSD rates to the fact that each succeeding generation of Americans has led relatively sheltered lives. The extreme violence that's encountered in combat is a shock to the system. Is the study right? I don't know but it makes more sense than most of the other reasons I've read.

Botany Boy's point is well taken as well and is probably another contributing factor.

I would also throw in "Survivor Guilt" as another factor.

Yea that's a legit issue for a number of folks too.

Good reads...

I wonder if BB's take applies more to the current US system - where people join the military voluntarily, and look at it as a career.
And his HisArpy's - to those drafted during long periods of war.

It's pretty cruel that they invest all their youth in it, and once they get old - bye bye. And they have skills - they could be fasttracked towards joining law enforcement or security positions.

Maybe that could cause a trend by there is bleedover too.

I've seen some guys join who think it's going to be a video game and then suddenly it's not and they cant' deal.

 

[suurfer]

Then there's the opposite side of the coin. Some Joe's were ordered to do things they weren't equipped to do mentally. And no one cared. Instead it was "suck it up soldier". So they did.

These Joes got out at the end of their tour and found that their memories of family and friends were either wrong or changed somehow from what they remembered. No more cozy comforts at home. The home they were longing to return to. The family they needed but who now looks at them funny. Or treats them differently.

And then you add in the bad memories on top of all that. Because being a Joe isn't easy and there's tons of bad shit that happens sometimes. Shit you don't talk about because you're not allowed to. Or you just can't open up enough.

PTSD is no joke. To protect themselves a lot of sufferers build walls to keep the pain at bay. Walls so strong that help can't get through. But, eventually the walls will suffocate you. Some remove part of the wall and start to live again as best they can. Others tear down the walls and cry for help. Others just give up without saying anything to anyone because the pain is too great and they're not the kind to share it anyway.

Your and BotanyBoy's comments reminded me of a Russian novel that I read during my youth.

Can't remember the name, ffs, but what you guys described was almost identical to that. The guy had been drafted during ww2, and eagerly awaited for his return. But once he did, he was both rejected by his family who'd moved on, and he could no longer relate.
So he spiralled gradually into abyss.

The thing is - those soldiers know a lot more about what life is, than most of us do. But because they are tossed aside /aren't offered support groups or meaningful tasks once they return, they spiral downwards instead of harnessing those strengths.

 

[Hillgrove]

You are taught to go to war trained for it no one is trained to come home living in a war zone you deal with a very different set of problems not getting killed etc. but when you get home it’s how do I pay my bills what due next etc. it’s the small thing that’s hard to deal with Walmart noises loud bangs that a month ago meant sudden death for you now it’s everyday life worlds outside of war zones changes quickly while you are gone thing that seemed easy before you left is very hard when you get back it took me years to grasp technology that had changed. I pray every day for these young men I can’t explain it but death in a war zone is easy sounds hard but it’s true i went through very tough times when I came home at time you just want to say fuck it but you have to chive on it’s really hard for civilians to understand this PRAY FOR THEM god bless y’all

 

[Conager]

Extraction techniques are better so we have far more soldiers who have fortunately survived but who have also been exposed to violence up close and personal.

We have far more injured soldiers returning as well because stabilization and surgical techniques and the delivery time to medical care is so much quicker that are survival rates are Amazing by historical perspective but that means we have a lot more people dealing with very serious injuries that would have been certain death a couple of wars ago.

Just illustrate how much better trauma surgery is now in Chicago roughly 3,000 people a year are shot and only about 600 die. You got an 80% chance of living after an attempted murder. These are not long-distance flesh wounds this is where somebody was trying to kill you usually relatively up close and personal with a gun and five out of six times surgeons can keep you alive.

To belasaurus' point, that is a lot of violence that young men are exposed to, and if the rates of PTSD and suicide are high there we are not hearing about it. Makes you wonder if it is the contrast from Safety and Security two sudden violence and then back to a prosaic lifestyle. It's probably pretty jarring.

 

[heathergives]

Extraction techniques are better so we have far more soldiers who have fortunately survived but who have also been exposed to violence up close and personal.

We have far more injured soldiers returning as well because stabilization and surgical techniques and the delivery time to medical care is so much quicker that are survival rates are Amazing by historical perspective but that means we have a lot more people dealing with very serious injuries that would have been certain death a couple of wars ago.

Just illustrate how much better trauma surgery is now in Chicago roughly 3,000 people a year are shot and only about 600 die. You got an 80% chance of living after an attempted murder. These are not long-distance flesh wounds this is where somebody was trying to kill you usually relatively up close and personal with a gun and five out of six times surgeons can keep you alive.

To belasaurus' point, that is a lot of violence that young men are exposed to, and if the rates of PTSD and suicide are high there we are not hearing about it. Makes you wonder if it is the contrast from Safety and Security two sudden violence and then back to a prosaic lifestyle. It's probably pretty jarring.

My Dad was a Vietnam Vet and died young. Not from suicide, but I think that the stress that he must have endured after that war ate at him until he just became too tired, if that makes any sense. He didn't talk about the war much, and maybe that was a part of it too.

 

[bellisarius]

My Dad was a Vietnam Vet and died young. Not from suicide, but I think that the stress that he must have endured after that war ate at him until he just became too tired, if that makes any sense. He didn't talk about the war much, and maybe that was a part of it too.

This is typical. Vets will rarely talk about their experiences with anyone that hasn't been there.

 

[BizzaBizza]

Until you get emperical data and everyone who commits suicide, it's all .. speculation and theory and in most cases, it's correct for a certain percentage of people who take their life.

I'm going to use this STUDY as an example.

I can assume there are more enlisted soldiers than officers, and I can assume that there are enlisted soldiers with some college and some with degrees, but overall, there are more non-college educated soldiers than college educated.

A lot of enlisted people go into the military because they have nowhere else to go. They haven't prepared for the future beyond high school, and they haven't prepared for the future beyond the military. When their future becomes their present, they are lost. Lost people are more prone to sadness, depression, and allowing the mistakes of their past or what they perceive as the mistakes of their past, influence what they see as a hopeless future, which can lead to suicide.

Bottom line, the majority of people committing suicide are not happy with their lives. They most likely lack control, purpose, and drive, and most likely, they lack the knowledge of how to improve their situation.

That is hopelessness and a person who has no hope, has nothing to live for.

This is just one theory, but give me time and I can write 10 different theories that would apply to some percentage of the people who committed suicide.

And, some of these people committing suicide are more prone to it, so no matter what life they had chosen to live, an event or outcome of choices they made could lead to their suicide.

More questions to ask are: Is their a common MOS among those committing suicide? What has happened in their personal lives during and after the military, even before? Do they have a family to come home to? Are they loners? Can they function outside of a regimented society that forces them to have a purpose? How much tragedy has their life seen? Are they prone to depression? Are they prone to alcoholism or drug abuse or any kind of addiction? Are they emotionally mature? Are they mentally mature? Have they been taught to deal with their personal issues with rational thinking (before the military, during, after)? ... There are so many factors that needed to be dissected before determining a group reason, rather than an individual reason.

And, when someone serves in the military, you've taken them out of society at a relatively young age, which removes their chance to assimilate to society and find a routine to their life. And while they may not be happy with it, they become used to it, cutting down on the chances of suicide for someone who had routine, but must now discover it all over again only to find out that they were happier before, rather than after.

Most importantly: If they are feeling suicidal, what is keeping them from talking to someone who can help?

 

[suurfer]

This is typical. Vets will rarely talk about their experiences with anyone that hasn't been there.

It seems to me like there are 'two camps', so to speak :

You and conager focus a bit more on their difficulty coming to terms with their traumatic war experiences. (medical model)
- BB and HA focus a bit more on their disappointments due to their changed worldviews and a society that casts them aside. (sociological model)


Personally, I agree that PTSD is a huge issue. But it's bound to make things even worse, the way authorities focus just on that, while neglecting the latter.

 

[bellisarius]

Not so much focusing as observations. The PTSD studies are relatively new and are most certainly be subjected to rigorous testing. So while it does make sense, it's still not necessarily the answer. I don't think there IS a single answer.

 

[seeshelly]

I am impressed

I'm sure being an American is stressful. You're surrounded by smug lunatics all day.

I'm Canadian if you must know.

Now what other questions was I too much of a coward to answer, SFB?

Bravo! I am impressed that you took time to write back. So, not too many smug lunatics in Canada ah?

But you think that being an American is so stressful that it causes military vets to kill themselves huh? Mmmm.

Joking about people killing themselves is not a sign of being a smug lunatic? Ok, well nice to get this all cleared up. Ever come to the states for medical help or do you enjoy waiting in lines? I have talked to lots of Canadians that have come down here to this haven for lunatics to get a surgery done.

Have a nice winter.

 

[heathergives]

Not so much focusing as observations. The PTSD studies are relatively new and are most certainly be subjected to rigorous testing. So while it does make sense, it's still not necessarily the answer. I don't think there IS a single answer.

Probably not, as in WWI they called it "shell shock;" in WWII it was called "battle fatigue;" I don't think they had a name for it in Korea, and PTSd, to my knowledge didn't become an acronym until around the Gulf war. (I'm also a history buff, so I know these things.)

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Extraction techniques are better so we have far more soldiers who have fortunately survived but who have also been exposed to violence up close and personal.

We have far more injured soldiers returning as well because stabilization and surgical techniques and the delivery time to medical care is so much quicker that are survival rates are Amazing by historical perspective but that means we have a lot more people dealing with very serious injuries that would have been certain death a couple of wars ago.

Just illustrate how much better trauma surgery is now in Chicago roughly 3,000 people a year are shot and only about 600 die. You got an 80% chance of living after an attempted murder. These are not long-distance flesh wounds this is where somebody was trying to kill you usually relatively up close and personal with a gun and five out of six times surgeons can keep you alive.

To belasaurus' point, that is a lot of violence that young men are exposed to, and if the rates of PTSD and suicide are high there we are not hearing about it. Makes you wonder if it is the contrast from Safety and Security two sudden violence and then back to a prosaic lifestyle. It's probably pretty jarring.

And the modern body armor too.

That shit saved a LOT of lives, without it our KIA and wounded numbers would have been significantly higher.

It seems to me like there are 'two camps', so to speak :

You and conager focus a bit more on their difficulty coming to terms with their traumatic war experiences. (medical model)
- BB and HA focus a bit more on their disappointments due to their changed worldviews and a society that casts them aside. (sociological model)


Personally, I agree that PTSD is a huge issue. But it's bound to make things even worse, the way authorities focus just on that, while neglecting the latter.

Some things bother other people more in different ways.

The whole thing is a messy affair.

 

[Gypsytag]

They knew what they signed up for and now they whine if they arent pampered and their egos arent stroked.

Bunch of snowflakes.